Organic? Genetically modified food?

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  • jruck371
    jruck371 Posts: 28 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    jruck371 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    n1cholee93 wrote: »
    crzycatlady1 wrote: »
    n1cholee93 wrote: »
    Yes i buy organic. Especially fruits and vegetables. We do have our own garden and don't tend to use pesticides unless we have to.
    And yes i read labels, and stay away from modified anything if i can.
    Why? Because i care about my health. I'm trying to lose weight, which means i'm trying to overall be healthier. And that translates to me eating food that doesn't destroy my health. Plus organic tends to taste better...

    I understand most people think the "organic" is a ploy, and it is to a certain extent. But organic means what we're eating is more natural. Organic meat = animals (cows) need to be on a rotation. Meaning the animals aren't sat in a padlock all their lives. Ever notice the seal for animal welfare on most organic products? I look for those above all else, personally.

    I also lost the extra weight because I care about my health (I needed to normalize a high glucose number), and the modified/non-organic food I eat doesn't 'destroy' my health- I'm actually in excellent health now and have consistent good feedback from my doctor/tests.

    I'm genuinely curious what you think tastes better organic? I've had organic products before and I've never tasted a difference. I do notice a color/size difference with the free range eggs I get, (from a relative who raises chickens as a hobby), but they taste the same as the ones I occasionally buy at the store.

    Cereal is something i think taste better. The "simply" ones are something i find yummy. Hot chocolate/syrup. The milk, but i buy that locally and it has a rich taste, not bland. My eggs are better, you can see the difference.

    I find it so funny with all the hate, though. You guys either must not do research or really live in a hole. Organic where i came from was just "food". But whatever floats your boat. You can't deny the chemicals in everyday food. McDonalds even had a FQ on why their food doesn't mold. Or why twinkies are stay good. I personally did my own research and came to the conclusion i didn't want to eat certain foods, i guess "i" deem them as unhealthy, were as a majority here think i'm bat crazy. For my health and environment/animal welfare i don't mind using organic and more "natural" products. I will gracefully bow out now, i didn't imagine my statement would cause this much of an uproar.

    If you are in the US and care about animal welfare, organic is far from the best way to express that concern. I'd buy from local farms where you know the practices or, in the alternative, research welfare or a system like WF does, maybe. There are huge industrial "organic" producers in the US. (Probably elsewhere too, but I know more about it here.)

    Actually, this is incorrect.. sorry to burst your organic loving bubble:

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/

    https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/07/25/organic-vs-conventional-farming-lower-environmental-impact/

    Id agree that buying from Local farms is best- but it is also not sustainable for the entire population to subsist on.

    Did you misread my post? How am I "organic loving"? (I am not anti or pro organic, see my first post. When I buy in a supermarket I buy conventional unless the organic looks fresher or otherwise better sufficiently to justify the cost difference.)

    I looked at your links and basically agree with them, but fail to see how they make my comment that you quoted "incorrect" -- again, that comment was that buying organic is NOT the best way to address a concern with animal welfare.

    Could you elaborate how organic food is better for animal welfare? "Just because I said so" doesn't make the argument true (ie. Citations). Environment effects the ecological systems of animals- if the environment impact is the same, then there is no difference to animal welfare I don't think you read my post or if you did it was too big a leap for you to connect the environment and animals??
  • ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken Posts: 1,530 Member
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    stevencloser wrote: »
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    Genetically modified food has not been proven safe by any one who does not have a vested interest in the GMO market. I do check all labels and if in doubt I leave it on the shelf. I have found that a lot of organic or non-GMO food is becoming more common and more affordable. You just have to shop around.

    Repeating that doesn't make it true.

    But it is true. Not because I said it out of my own mouth and extracted it from my own brain. Follow the money. That is all you need. When GMO's are PROVEN safe by people who have not been paid to do so I will then change my mind. Until then my opinion stands. You don't have to like it.
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
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    LOL. All good. I can't speak for her, but I'm sure she'd agree.

    55566410.jpg
  • domeofstars
    domeofstars Posts: 480 Member
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    Here in Australia, I don't think I've ever read a food label with a 'GMO' ingredient in it. So no, I don't buy organic BUT in terms of frozen vegetables I try to ensure that the vegies were grown and packed in Australia.
  • cmtigger
    cmtigger Posts: 1,450 Member
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    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    Genetically modified food has not been proven safe by any one who does not have a vested interest in the GMO market. I do check all labels and if in doubt I leave it on the shelf. I have found that a lot of organic or non-GMO food is becoming more common and more affordable. You just have to shop around.

    Repeating that doesn't make it true.

    But it is true. Not because I said it out of my own mouth and extracted it from my own brain. Follow the money. That is all you need. When GMO's are PROVEN safe by people who have not been paid to do so I will then change my mind. Until then my opinion stands. You don't have to like it.

    So you want someone to work for free?
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,522 Member
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    I knew this would end up as a GMO flame war. C'est la vie.

    We are in the golden age of food right now, where we can produce large quantities and wide varieties at historically low cost. You can buy organic, vegan, free-range, locally/remotely produced, minimally/highly processed, GMO/non, you name it! We can analyze every compound in the food, assay every chemical to a gnats eyelash, and still have time to sit around arguing about it. It's incredible! Thanks, agricultural science!

    Note that you don't have to genetically modify a food to make it suspect. Consider pokeweed, once commonly eaten, although poisionous unless "thrice boiled!" I wouldn't touch it with a 3 foot fork unless the toxin were genetically modified out of it!

    Someday, we may be glad of all the research into food production. We may need to adapt to changing growth conditions. There's nothing like necessity to make you adopt something new. For now, we can each make our own individual choice and feel darn superior about it!
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited February 2017
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    jruck371 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    jruck371 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    n1cholee93 wrote: »
    crzycatlady1 wrote: »
    n1cholee93 wrote: »
    Yes i buy organic. Especially fruits and vegetables. We do have our own garden and don't tend to use pesticides unless we have to.
    And yes i read labels, and stay away from modified anything if i can.
    Why? Because i care about my health. I'm trying to lose weight, which means i'm trying to overall be healthier. And that translates to me eating food that doesn't destroy my health. Plus organic tends to taste better...

    I understand most people think the "organic" is a ploy, and it is to a certain extent. But organic means what we're eating is more natural. Organic meat = animals (cows) need to be on a rotation. Meaning the animals aren't sat in a padlock all their lives. Ever notice the seal for animal welfare on most organic products? I look for those above all else, personally.

    I also lost the extra weight because I care about my health (I needed to normalize a high glucose number), and the modified/non-organic food I eat doesn't 'destroy' my health- I'm actually in excellent health now and have consistent good feedback from my doctor/tests.

    I'm genuinely curious what you think tastes better organic? I've had organic products before and I've never tasted a difference. I do notice a color/size difference with the free range eggs I get, (from a relative who raises chickens as a hobby), but they taste the same as the ones I occasionally buy at the store.

    Cereal is something i think taste better. The "simply" ones are something i find yummy. Hot chocolate/syrup. The milk, but i buy that locally and it has a rich taste, not bland. My eggs are better, you can see the difference.

    I find it so funny with all the hate, though. You guys either must not do research or really live in a hole. Organic where i came from was just "food". But whatever floats your boat. You can't deny the chemicals in everyday food. McDonalds even had a FQ on why their food doesn't mold. Or why twinkies are stay good. I personally did my own research and came to the conclusion i didn't want to eat certain foods, i guess "i" deem them as unhealthy, were as a majority here think i'm bat crazy. For my health and environment/animal welfare i don't mind using organic and more "natural" products. I will gracefully bow out now, i didn't imagine my statement would cause this much of an uproar.

    If you are in the US and care about animal welfare, organic is far from the best way to express that concern. I'd buy from local farms where you know the practices or, in the alternative, research welfare or a system like WF does, maybe. There are huge industrial "organic" producers in the US. (Probably elsewhere too, but I know more about it here.)

    Actually, this is incorrect.. sorry to burst your organic loving bubble:

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/

    https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/07/25/organic-vs-conventional-farming-lower-environmental-impact/

    Id agree that buying from Local farms is best- but it is also not sustainable for the entire population to subsist on.

    Did you misread my post? How am I "organic loving"? (I am not anti or pro organic, see my first post. When I buy in a supermarket I buy conventional unless the organic looks fresher or otherwise better sufficiently to justify the cost difference.)

    I looked at your links and basically agree with them, but fail to see how they make my comment that you quoted "incorrect" -- again, that comment was that buying organic is NOT the best way to address a concern with animal welfare.

    Could you elaborate how organic food is better for animal welfare? "Just because I said so" doesn't make the argument true (ie. Citations). Environment effects the ecological systems of animals- if the environment impact is the same, then there is no difference to animal welfare I don't think you read my post or if you did it was too big a leap for you to connect the environment and animals??

    Um, since I specifically said that organic is NOT better for animal welfare, no I cannot. Ask someone who believes that to elaborate on it. Instead, I will repeat what I said, with emphasis in case that helps the communication process:

    "If you are in the US and care about animal welfare, organic is FAR FROM [i.e., not] the best way to express that concern. I'd buy from local farms where you know the practices or, in the alternative, research welfare or a system like WF does, maybe. There are huge industrial "organic" producers in the US. (Probably elsewhere too, but I know more about it here.)"

    To elaborate on that, in the US "organic" says nothing about animal welfare (I think in other countries the designation may cover different things, so might). The point about a huge percentage of organics being huge industrial producers is that their practices (even when they have labels and so on implying they are family farms that they are not and have practices largely similar (the "access to the outside" labels that someone else mentioned are an example of this).

    I'm really not sure why you keep suggesting I defend something I did not say.

    [Edit: oh, I see it was cleared up. Thanks, TR0berts!]
  • ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken Posts: 1,530 Member
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    cmtigger wrote: »
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    Genetically modified food has not been proven safe by any one who does not have a vested interest in the GMO market. I do check all labels and if in doubt I leave it on the shelf. I have found that a lot of organic or non-GMO food is becoming more common and more affordable. You just have to shop around.

    Repeating that doesn't make it true.

    But it is true. Not because I said it out of my own mouth and extracted it from my own brain. Follow the money. That is all you need. When GMO's are PROVEN safe by people who have not been paid to do so I will then change my mind. Until then my opinion stands. You don't have to like it.

    So you want someone to work for free?

    Paying someone to do a job and paying them to produce a certain result are two separate things. But you know that.
  • ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken Posts: 1,530 Member
    edited February 2017
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    cmtigger wrote: »
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    cmtigger wrote: »
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    Genetically modified food has not been proven safe by any one who does not have a vested interest in the GMO market. I do check all labels and if in doubt I leave it on the shelf. I have found that a lot of organic or non-GMO food is becoming more common and more affordable. You just have to shop around.

    Repeating that doesn't make it true.

    But it is true. Not because I said it out of my own mouth and extracted it from my own brain. Follow the money. That is all you need. When GMO's are PROVEN safe by people who have not been paid to do so I will then change my mind. Until then my opinion stands. You don't have to like it.

    So you want someone to work for free?

    Paying someone to do a job and paying them to produce a certain result are two separate things. But you know that.

    The thing is, they aren't paying them to get a certain result. Look at the lawsuits that the tobacco industry has dealt with since it came out that they did that. No business wants that.

    But this attitude of "there hasn't been enough testing" when someone doesn't like the results doesn't make it true. If all the testing shows one thing another test isn't likely to be any different.

    Yes they are. The whole business is so crooked. There is little, if any honesty. At any rate I hope the OP got what ever they were looking for here. I came to add my two cents to the thread not debate with you. There are a few threads over in the debate forum though if you really want to engage in a debate.
  • Nicklebee93
    Nicklebee93 Posts: 316 Member
    edited February 2017
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    Organic generally DOES help animal wellfare. I'm not sure where you're getting you information but there are strict guidelines that they have to follow in order for an animal product to be listed as organic. That includes pasture rotation, living habits. From added added growth hormones to other forms. You can check more on the USDA website.


    Now there are arguements from both sides. Organic does generally mean better animal welfare. Depending on sources, we can argue around about the benifits of agricultural. I've done my research and i *know* there are risks on both sides. I also *know* chemicials are in many things. I never claimed else wise. But nit picking and twisting my words in ways you know i'm not meaning is odd to say the least...

    PS i wouldn't drink hydrogen peroxide.

    I don't understand the amount of back lash from stating something I AGREE with. But i guess the internet is full of keyboard warriors just dying to go into a battle. The uproar of organic is new and there is much to learn. You guys don't need to buy organic, i never said you did. And since you don't agree with me does not make me misinformed.
  • snikkins
    snikkins Posts: 1,282 Member
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    I feel like it's time for one of these:

    You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

    The Hubster works at Costco, which is one of, if not the largest by now, distributers of organic foods, so I suspect we eat a surprising amount of organic foods if I were to count. We do this because he works there and it's inexpensive. We definitely don't go out of our way and won't pay more for it unless conventional is out of stock and we need whatever item right now. As for GMOs, bring 'em on, too. I don't know how many more decades of safety research will be necessary for this "controversy" to go away, but I have a feeling it'll be similar to vaccines.
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
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    I eat organic and non GMO. I don't care whether it's more expensive or cheaper....I have found in some cases the organic counterpart was cheaper than the non organic. Organic farming methods are the most sustainable methods with the most reliable crop yields. Several scientific studies have shown that conventional farming with its chemical fertilisers and pesticides strip the land of nutrients resulting in a constant decline in crop yields. The solution was to just keep adding more and more chemical fertilisers to keep up yields but that is now to the point that crop yields are in decline. It's taken decades for this, but shows it's not sustainable in long run to do conventional farming.

    The introduction of the GMO corn and soybean actually resulted in the use of MORE pesticides, not less. The crop yields of GMOs are also no better than crop yields of heirloom plants when looked at long term. Anyone who says different has only read the advertising literature and not the studies done on the sustainability of these crops. Also a recent study found that conflicts of interest DID affect the result of studies into the safety of GMOs and if you looked at the studies without conflicts of interest...the majority of studies showed GMOs to not be safe. This is the reason most GMOs are banned in Europe...because not all GMOs are safe for human consumption. GMOs are not the same as selective breeding because with selective breeding you are staying within the same species. With GMOs, genes from other kingdoms are inserted...i.e. Bacteria genes into plants, animal genes into plants. The science is not sufficiently advanced to predict all the proteins that will be produced as a result of gene insertion and a whole host of these proteins have been found to be toxic and carcinogenic...there is an EU list of these proteins that cannot be present for a GMO to be approved. I don't think it's a coincidence that the US has a higher rate of cancer deaths than Europe despite having similar standard of living...western first world country...as well as a now declining life expectancy whereas Europes life expectancy is still increasing. What has caused this? The only major difference is food supply....particularly the US allowing GMOs and less strict regulations for conventional foods. It also dovetails with studies that showed rats fed GMO corn developed tumours and died younger than rats fed non GMO corn.
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
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    Barkley study on organic vs conventional farming...organic farming can "feed the world" and unlike conventional farming is sustainable for future generations. http://news.berkeley.edu/2014/12/09/organic-conventional-farming-yield-gap/
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
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    Environmental Working Group report showing that GM crops had zero impact on crop yield vs nonGM crops.
    http://www.ewg.org/agmag/2015/03/claims-gmo-yield-increases-don-t-hold
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
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    Good NY times article summarising the fact that GMOs have not increased crop yields AND require more pesticides than non GMO crops.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/business/gmo-promise-falls-short.html?_r=0

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