I'm going to leave this here! Great Article

JB035
JB035 Posts: 336 Member
edited November 16 in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html

This is how I eat/bulk and most of the guys and girls I train with do the same. We've all seen progress without gorging on JUNK food constantly. Cheats here and there are fine, but a full on "dirty bulk" is a bad idea.
Believe it or not most of you can hit your cals with better food choices. Rice and potatoes are not your enemy! If you're short on cals add a little rice to each meal or some sweet potato, not snack cakes or other foods void of much nutrients. Filling in your missed cals at the end of the day with deserts or similar stuff is really just poor planning. Do I fall short sometimes, yes. More than I like. My point is we shouldn't settle for a poor plan just because we can make up for it in junk food.
Just like this article says, you will gain slower but the back and forth of bulk and cut from excessive fat gain is counterproductive.

I'm sure you guys are going to bash me but I've actually had success this way. I have pictures to prove there was no cutting needed after gaining around 20 lbs in a year. Only supps taken were creatine, and protein shakes.
Dispute if you will. But I'd like actual experienced proof to back it up. Picture and all.

Replies

  • JB035
    JB035 Posts: 336 Member
    edited February 2017
    @AnvilHead
    To quote the man himself.
    "Refer to the OP. I never suggested anyone eat like this 100% of the time. I used an extreme method to prove a point. My goal was to prove that weight loss is entirely based on CICO. Besides, getting out of the obese range will do much more for my health than eating nutrient dense food while maintaining a high bodyfat. That college professor proved that."

    Kinda my point.... not 100% of the time....
    I'm in this for the long haul. So eating consistently nutritious meals would be a better long term goal to achieve than bulk and cut methods.

    I'm not going to lie though, I'm absolutely shocked of the results from his experiment!

    I didn't read through the entire thread. Did he end up in the obese area from a bulk?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    Who is this mythical person advocating a bulk on a diet of 100% ice cream, pizza, etc???
  • annaskiski
    annaskiski Posts: 1,212 Member
    We need to start a thread calling for all those people eating only junk food to post.

    They must be here, 'cause people like the OP keep saying they are....
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    JB035 wrote: »
    http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html

    This is how I eat/bulk and most of the guys and girls I train with do the same. We've all seen progress without gorging on JUNK food constantly. Cheats here and there are fine, but a full on "dirty bulk" is a bad idea.
    Believe it or not most of you can hit your cals with better food choices. Rice and potatoes are not your enemy! If you're short on cals add a little rice to each meal or some sweet potato, not snack cakes or other foods void of much nutrients. Filling in your missed cals at the end of the day with deserts or similar stuff is really just poor planning. Do I fall short sometimes, yes. More than I like. My point is we shouldn't settle for a poor plan just because we can make up for it in junk food.
    Just like this article says, you will gain slower but the back and forth of bulk and cut from excessive fat gain is counterproductive.

    I'm sure you guys are going to bash me but I've actually had success this way. I have pictures to prove there was no cutting needed after gaining around 20 lbs in a year. Only supps taken were creatine, and protein shakes.
    Dispute if you will. But I'd like actual experienced proof to back it up. Picture and all.

    20 pounds is 20 pounds whether it is clean food or not. Your body can only convert x% of calories into muscle and the rest has to be stored as fat.

    so if person A eat 100% clean (whatever that is) and gains 20 pounds and Person B eats a diet of 80% nutrient dense foods 20% "junk" and hits their micros and macros; then assuming similar training and stats they will both gain, relatively, the same amount of muscle and fat.

    Also, you can only absorb so many micro and macro nutrients, so you don't get extra credit for extra micros and macros...

    Finally, the whole point of posting this is lost on me as no one in this forum is advocating a 100% dirty bulk. And adding in some ice cream at the end of the day when you have hit your micros and macros is not "poor planning" it is actually great planning because you have met all your other needs for the day.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    One can still hit macros and micros eating "dirty" because dirty food isn't a thing. All food has a macro and micronutrient profile (exception maybe being alcohol). So people should just eat food they like and meet their nutritional requirements. Most people enjoy eating a wide and varied diet anyway so the point of this thread is moot.
  • LivingtheLeanDream
    LivingtheLeanDream Posts: 13,342 Member
    I get fed up when people keep referring to food as dirty/bad ....sigh! as others have already said, moderation is key.
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    One can still hit macros and micros eating "dirty" because dirty food isn't a thing. All food has a macro and micronutrient profile (exception maybe being alcohol). So people should just eat food they like and meet their nutritional requirements. Most people enjoy eating a wide and varied diet anyway so the point of this thread is moot.

    Alcohol is it's own macro. The body just has no storage method for it and is treated (rightly) as a poison. Therefore, the body pushes all other macronutrient processing to the back burner until the alcohol is metabolized out.
  • richln
    richln Posts: 809 Member
    JB035 wrote: »
    http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html

    This is how I eat/bulk and most of the guys and girls I train with do the same. We've all seen progress without gorging on JUNK food constantly. Cheats here and there are fine, but a full on "dirty bulk" is a bad idea.
    Believe it or not most of you can hit your cals with better food choices. Rice and potatoes are not your enemy! If you're short on cals add a little rice to each meal or some sweet potato, not snack cakes or other foods void of much nutrients. Filling in your missed cals at the end of the day with deserts or similar stuff is really just poor planning. Do I fall short sometimes, yes. More than I like. My point is we shouldn't settle for a poor plan just because we can make up for it in junk food.
    Just like this article says, you will gain slower but the back and forth of bulk and cut from excessive fat gain is counterproductive.

    I'm sure you guys are going to bash me but I've actually had success this way. I have pictures to prove there was no cutting needed after gaining around 20 lbs in a year. Only supps taken were creatine, and protein shakes.
    Dispute if you will. But I'd like actual experienced proof to back it up. Picture and all.

    I'm not doubting your success, but this article you linked is full of broscience. I would not put a lot of value in Thibaudeau's writing. Some of his statements here are laughable and he doesn't even bother to reference anything. Pretty much every bodybuilder who competes bulks during the off season and cuts before a show. The exception being some physique athletes who maintain at very low bf% because they are not too interested in building more mass and it allows them more opportunity for photoshoots throughout the year. Don't go too far overboard on your bulks, sure, that is common sense because it will take you longer to cut. But eating junk food doesn't have anything to do with it. We have plenty of examples of top-tier competitors using IIFYM principles.
  • comptonelizabeth
    comptonelizabeth Posts: 1,701 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    I've never seen anyone on here recommend a "dirty bulk" where they just eat anything and everything with no regard for nutrition or calories.. that is going to make the fat gain pile up for sure.

    Of course you can see progress with all clean foods (or whatever you define as clean or non-junk) .. as long as it puts you in a calorie surplus. But having a well balanced diet, hitting macros with nutrient dense foods, getting enough vitamins, fibre.. but having some treats either because you enjoy it or it helps you hit those calorie goals is fine too.. and as long as your surplus is low to moderate (and you are on decent programming) your fat gain should be minimal. Eating clean while on an increased surplus is not going to prevent fat gain, if I'm not mistaken in another thread you are gaining over 1lb per week and have seen fat gains already at that level?

    This is my second bulk, and I incorporate ice cream or other dessert daily. I am hitting over 3K daily which is a lot of food for my frame, eating all clean foods would be pretty miserable (been there, done that). I enjoy my fun foods, I don't want to eat rice or potatoes at the end of the day, blah.. not for me, no thanks.

    I keep my surplus minimal, and I have seen great results, no huge increases in fat, if I had to cut it will be very little and at the end I have zero regrets about how I do it. If what you are doing is giving you great results, that is fantastic.. keep going...but I see a lot of people on here not able to hit their cal goals because they are so stuffed since they think they have to eat 100% clean. They are scared of an Oreo turning to fat on a bulk which is so far from the truth.

    Exactly this. It's all very well to suggest adding rice or sweet potato to increase calories but for small eaters like myself,it wouldn't work because I would get too full. Thanks to mfp I've realised I can add calories in other ways like nut butters,oils etc,full fat dairy etc.
  • JB035
    JB035 Posts: 336 Member
    Nobody is advocating that. I was just simply stating nutritional value of eating pizza and ice cream is not as good as other food choices.
    I see what everyone is saying about there is not good or bad food choices but just less nutritional or more nutritional choices.
    I'm the type that has to try something before I actually believe it will work. So, that's exactly what I'm about to do. I'm about to start this crazy way of eating and see if it works. I mean it sounds wonderful I'm going to give it a shot.

    See my other post. IIFYM
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    I did the majority of my weight gain in the 80's. I started in '83 at 126lbs and eventually competed in '85 at 155lbs (contest weight), so I did get up to 170lbs. My intake need to bulk up was 4000 calories and there NO WAY I could do that eating just "clean" food. So I added in pizza and burgers. Granted I met most of my macronutrient goals, but to eat nothing but "clean" food at say 500 calories per meal is like 8 meals a day. It's hard to train on a full stomach, much less work on one either, so having some high calorie items like pizza made it much easier to cut back on total meals.
    I weigh more than I did back in the 80's, but I've really never went by "clean" eating to add size. Just as long as my protein was high enough along with the calories to support bulking, my food choices varied.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    Btw, if you want to add mass without fat or minimal fat gains look at recomping and be prepared to dedicate a year or two to hit that ideal goal.
  • JB035
    JB035 Posts: 336 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    JB035 wrote: »
    Nobody is advocating that. I was just simply stating nutritional value of eating pizza and ice cream is not as good as other food choices.
    I see what everyone is saying about there is not good or bad food choices but just less nutritional or more nutritional choices.
    I'm the type that has to try something before I actually believe it will work. So, that's exactly what I'm about to do. I'm about to start this crazy way of eating and see if it works. I mean it sounds wonderful I'm going to give it a shot.

    See my other post. IIFYM

    Can we add perspective? At this current moment, you are all over trying figure out what is best and second guessing a lot. Then there is the rest of us who have gone down this path and figured it out.

    What matters is calorie levels adequate to your goals. Thats it. The types of food you eat doesnt matter outside satiety. It doesnt matter if its a potato, banana or ice creams.... diets are made up of a conglomeration of foods. All foods have energenic needs as the body breaks all nutreints down to their lowest level.

    At this point, you have to stop looking for that magic bullet and look for what appeals to you. And it may be more than a method or style.

    @psuLemon
    I definitely have my fair share of questions.

    Thanks for all who are willing to deal with them. Haha

    I'll get there.... eventually.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    JB035 wrote: »
    Nobody is advocating that. I was just simply stating nutritional value of eating pizza and ice cream is not as good as other food choices.
    I see what everyone is saying about there is not good or bad food choices but just less nutritional or more nutritional choices.
    I'm the type that has to try something before I actually believe it will work. So, that's exactly what I'm about to do. I'm about to start this crazy way of eating and see if it works. I mean it sounds wonderful I'm going to give it a shot.

    See my other post. IIFYM

    Do you have to shoot yourself in the hand with a nail gun for you to believe it hurts?

    that's the most ridiculous notion ever that you *HAVE* to try it in order to really believe it. come on man. stop that. that's teenage speak.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    JB035 wrote: »
    I'm sure you guys are going to bash me but I've actually had success this way. I have pictures to prove there was no cutting needed after gaining around 20 lbs in a year. Only supps taken were creatine, and protein shakes.
    Dispute if you will. But I'd like actual experienced proof to back it up. Picture and all.

    20 pounds in a year as a male is a relatively lean bulk, so it's not magic and it has nothing to do with eating "clean" or "dirty". One to two pounds of lean mass per month for 12 months is 12-24 pounds. Not much room for fat gains in that since it was a slow gain.
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