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Infectobesity: catching obesity from a cold virus?
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Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
Were the animals being fed the food that made them gain weight, or did they have to hunt/gather it themselves?
There were two groups of animals..a control group that were not infected and a group that were purposely infected with the virus. Both groups were fed the exact same amount of food.
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Thanks everyone for your comments. It appears the majority believe obesity is only caused by overeating which is no surprise at all. Thank you especially to RaeBeeBaby who highlighted that medical conditions do exist that cause obesity (pituitary gland tumour). The authors are doing additional animal studies as are scientists worldwide...they can't test this on humans due to ethics. Also to answer questions, the virus is fought off by the body but the damage is already done to the victims body and is irreversible. The victim then starts to gradually gain weight and over time become obese. They don't think it is the cause of all obesity. I read an estimate of 15%. But then back in the day "the cancer" was viewed as a single disease and now it's perfectly accepted that cancer has multiple causes and is in fact now divided up by body part "lung cancer" "rectal cancer" "brain cancer" etc etc to show that there are cancers plural rather than "the cancer". I'm not fully convinced either about an obesity virus but we already know obesity has multiple causes...genetic links are also being studied and there are several medical conditions that can cause obesity (Cushings, PCOS, thyroid, pituitary). So I am rather open minded when it comes to the possibility that an infectious agent could be causing some obesity cases. I do know for me, that after reading up on obesity causes, I am less judgemental of obese people because there are medical one can never know exactly what is going on in their bodies. This doesn't mean I am all Fat Acceptance...I'm not as I think it's unhealthy.
But.....you do realize that if one gains weight from a tumor that it's the tumor and not actual fat gain, and tumor is not really going to make them obese?
If the tumor causes an increase in appetite, then sure.....if that person eats more calories than they burn they will gain weight, but it's from overeating. One gaining weight to only find out they had a tumor growing in them would be the exception and not the rule. Just the same as my friend who gained 30 some odd pounds in a short amount of time, went to the doctor and was told she had thyroid problems, only to be later told she was retaining water due to a heart condition and had to have an emergency triple bypass. That surgery saved her life, and got rid of the water she was holding due to a life-threatening heart condition.
However, those are exceptions that need immediate medical attention. The number one reason a person gains weight is from eating too much.
I am sorry but you are mistaken, the pituitary gland is about the size of a pea. The weight gain from a tumor there is not equal to the size and weight of the tumor itself as that would be quite small indeed. A tumor there does cause fat gain which in turn causes the victim to become obese by disrupting the endocrine system. The victim does not experience an increase in appetite and usually does not over eat...as in eat above what would be a normal caloric intake to maintain a healthy weight at their height and activity level. One of the things that happen with a disrupted endocrine system is the body over produces cortisol...which is a hormone that causes you to gain weight....as in add fat. Please read the following for a better understanding of pituitary tumors and obesity. https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/cushings-syndrome/diseases-adrenal-cortex-cushings-syndrome
Perhaps you missed this part:However, those are exceptions that need immediate medical attention. The number one reason a person gains weight is from eating too much.
You are missing the point. A tumor growing anywhere and causing weight gain is more the exception than the rule. The number one cause for weight gain is eating too much.
I am sorry, I misunderstood you when you said "people" as referring to all people. I had thought since we were only talking about people with tumors up through to that last sentence you were referring to people with tumors and not all people.1 -
Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
What? This is nonsensical.
X gaining gaining weight 2.5 times faster than Y is not the difference between a total calorie intake of 1500 cals a day VS a total intake of 600 cals a day.
It's the difference between a caloric surplus of 150 calories VS a surplus of 60 calories. And that doesn't mean it scales to any other surplus/deficit amount. It could be a total metabolic difference of 90 calories.
If at the same intake levels, you're in an average surplus of 10 calories per day over a given period, and I'm in an average surplus of 500 calories, I'm going to gain weight 50 times faster than you. But it doesn't mean our bodies are metabolizing extremely differently (your maintenance could be 2700, mine could be 2210, and we could both be eating 2710 calories a day) or that either of us is outside a normal range.
No adult of normal size who has normal sedentary activity levels will gain weight, or do anything but lose drastically, on 600 daily calories. It's simply not possible to sustain such energy expenditure with such little energy. They will be emaciated after a long enough period - period.4 -
Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
Were the animals being fed the food that made them gain weight, or did they have to hunt/gather it themselves?
There were two groups of animals..a control group that were not infected and a group that were purposely infected with the virus. Both groups were fed the exact same amount of food.
Which means the virus lowered their energy expenditure.
Weight gain is an equation with 2 variables, one of which you have full control over and the second partial control. A virus alone can never cause you to become obese, it always requires you to take the actions on your part of the equation that allow it to happen.3 -
stevencloser wrote: »
Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
Were the animals being fed the food that made them gain weight, or did they have to hunt/gather it themselves?
There were two groups of animals..a control group that were not infected and a group that were purposely infected with the virus. Both groups were fed the exact same amount of food.
Which means the virus lowered their energy expenditure.
Weight gain is an equation with 2 variables, one of which you have full control over and the second partial control. A virus alone can never cause you to become obese, it always requires you to take the actions on your part of the equation that allow it to happen.
Agreed, the virus lowered energy expenditure but not following you on where the control or the requirement for actions come in? The chickens ate the exact same amount of food...now pretending they were people...what action within their control did the infected chickens take to make them obese?0 -
comeonnow142857 wrote: »
Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
What? This is nonsensical.
X gaining gaining weight 2.5 times faster than Y is not the difference between a total calorie intake of 1500 cals a day VS a total intake of 600 cals a day.
It's the difference between a caloric surplus of 150 calories VS a surplus of 60 calories. And that doesn't mean it scales to any other surplus/deficit amount. It could be a total metabolic difference of 90 calories.
If at the same intake levels, you're in an average surplus of 10 calories per day over a given period, and I'm in an average surplus of 500 calories, I'm going to gain weight 50 times faster than you. But it doesn't mean our bodies are metabolizing extremely differently (your maintenance could be 2700, mine could be 2210, and we could both be eating 2710 calories a day) or that either of us is outside a normal range.
No adult of normal size who has normal sedentary activity levels will gain weight, or do anything but lose drastically, on 600 daily calories. It's simply not possible to sustain such energy expenditure with such little energy. They will be emaciated after a long enough period - period.
Thank you. Your statement that it's about surplus makes a lot more sense than what I was thinking. Great job showing the math too.
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The article indicates that 1/3 (33%) of the obese people tested had the virus. That still leaves a vast majority of 66% who are evidently eating more calories than needed for their regular activities. So, a true test would most likely have to include people only with the virus, observed over a period of time on a regulated diet/exercise program. Once that group has been cataloged, it could be compared to the general population using standard CICO practices. Setting up such a test would not be simple, but it would provide info.0
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stevencloser wrote: »
Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
Were the animals being fed the food that made them gain weight, or did they have to hunt/gather it themselves?
There were two groups of animals..a control group that were not infected and a group that were purposely infected with the virus. Both groups were fed the exact same amount of food.
Which means the virus lowered their energy expenditure.
Weight gain is an equation with 2 variables, one of which you have full control over and the second partial control. A virus alone can never cause you to become obese, it always requires you to take the actions on your part of the equation that allow it to happen.
Agreed, the virus lowered energy expenditure but not following you on where the control or the requirement for actions come in? The chickens ate the exact same amount of food...now pretending they were people...what action within their control did the infected chickens take to make them obese?
You don't go to sleep at a normal weight then wake up the next day obese. Not adjusting your food intake / increasing your energy expenditure in reaction to starting to gain weight, or even going to a doctor to see if there's something wrong (unexplained weight change can come from multiple medical conditions) is the action (or in this case un-action) that allows you to become obese.3 -
stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »
Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
Were the animals being fed the food that made them gain weight, or did they have to hunt/gather it themselves?
There were two groups of animals..a control group that were not infected and a group that were purposely infected with the virus. Both groups were fed the exact same amount of food.
Which means the virus lowered their energy expenditure.
Weight gain is an equation with 2 variables, one of which you have full control over and the second partial control. A virus alone can never cause you to become obese, it always requires you to take the actions on your part of the equation that allow it to happen.
Agreed, the virus lowered energy expenditure but not following you on where the control or the requirement for actions come in? The chickens ate the exact same amount of food...now pretending they were people...what action within their control did the infected chickens take to make them obese?
You don't go to sleep at a normal weight then wake up the next day obese. Not adjusting your food intake / increasing your energy expenditure in reaction to starting to gain weight, or even going to a doctor to see if there's something wrong (unexplained weight change can come from multiple medical conditions) is the action (or in this case un-action) that allows you to become obese.
Yes agree it would be more of a failure to act scenario because the studies did say a person would "gradually" become obese. Assuming, this is real, it would be lovely if they could do a blood test on people at the Drs for this virus just like they do for other unexplained weight gain causes..e.g. Thyroid. Then if the person knew they had it, they would then know they would have to cut calories/exercise a lot more than normal.1 -
day1appraisal wrote: »The article indicates that 1/3 (33%) of the obese people tested had the virus. That still leaves a vast majority of 66% who are evidently eating more calories than needed for their regular activities. So, a true test would most likely have to include people only with the virus, observed over a period of time on a regulated diet/exercise program. Once that group has been cataloged, it could be compared to the general population using standard CICO practices. Setting up such a test would not be simple, but it would provide info.
Wouldn't that be stage 2 of the research? You have correlation, so now you can set up controlled trials to see if there is causation?
I dunno, I could see a viral or bacterial infection causing obesity by influencing factors that affect energy balance. For example, causing sluggishness (decrease CO), screwing with thyroid function (decrease CO) or increasing appetite (increase CI). There are a lot of possible mechanisms for a disease to cause the symptom of obesity. None of them are insurmountable, so not an excuse for not losing weight. Just an extra explanation for how it was gained in the first place.2
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