For people with a unhealthy relationship with food--thoughts..

poorlittlefish

Hi there,

Just a bit of background, I have never been diagnosed with an eating disorder. I have never been bulimic or anorexic, so, the unhealthy relationship I refer to is more related to obsession, restricting, binging etc. I am at the higher end of my healthy weight range (sometimes shooting up to 5lbs above) and have been since I had my first daughter. Basically since then I have been trying to get back to my pre-baby weight. I had some great success before Christmas and slowly lost about 8lbs which brought me into the healthy range.

I was feeling great, things were clicking etc. That came to a halt after the holidays and I feel myself going back into the obsession with food, when can I eat, restricting and then binging. I probably spend most hours of my waking day thinking about food in some way--and I am turning 40 in a couple of weeks! It makes me sad that as an adult I spend this much time on this.

Anyway, what I am getting at, is there a way for you to lose weight without HATING yourself in the process? Without it becoming an obsession and turning every day into a fight with yourself? If so, how? I know people that weight loss is simply math to them. It isn't that way for me and I don't know how to fix it.

I am in such a funk right now. Beating myself up for my failures and that for me, just makes me more likely to continue failing but damn if I can fix it.

Thanks for any comments.

annacole94

You know this is a mental and emotional issue rather than a physical one. Have you thought about seeing a therapist of some kind to work through this and find some better strategies?

I'm saying this as someone who has spent a few sessions working on some of my own stuff, not in a "OMG, you need THERAPY!" sense. It can really help turn thinking around.

kommodevaran

I had to let go of the black/white, either/or, on/off, good/bad. For me, weight management is simple math AND simple self-care. I plan my meals based on what I want to eat, and I decide what and how much I want to eat based on what I like the taste of AND how it makes me feel afterwards. I know that I can't gain a pound of weight unless I eat 3500 calories above maintenance. I'm being kind to myself when I allow myself to eat two cookies because I like them, but I'm ALSO kind to myself when I tell myself "no" when I reach for the fifth cookie just because there's only one left.

Look into normal eating, intuitive eating, mindful eating.

jemhh

Using a small deficit so that you don't feel as much like you are limited in how much you eat can help with this.

Similarly, if you exercise, doing an activity that you enjoy and aren't just doing in order to burn calories, makes a huge difference.

vanmep

I used to always think about food. Think about food temptations, think about whether I should eat food, feel guilty about eating food, worry about how the food was adding to my weight. I just realized a couple weeks ago that when I started MFP I enjoy eating much more. I don't have many of those thought processes any more because I have a way to track exactly what I am "allowed" to eat and that has totally freed me to enjoy it without second guessing. The food log has become my "mother" so to speak who is telling me whether I am allowed that second cookie or not, so I don't have to go back and forth in my head dealing with temptation, lecturing myself, giving in to temptation, regretting it, hating myself, and on to the same cycle with the next food item.

I wonder what was your approach with losing the 8 pounds that you did lose. Were you logging? What was working for you that has changed now?

kshama2001

You may wish to seek some professional help, specifically cognitive behavioral therapy. Sometimes people avoid therapy because they think it will be years and years about talking about your childhood. That's Freudian, not CBT

While you get the ball rolling on that, you can check out this book on CBT for overeating. It was available in my library system, so maybe yours too.

The Beck Diet Solution: Train Your Brain to Think Like a Thin Person

Can thinking and eating like a thin person be learned, similar to learning to drive or use a computer? Beck (Cognitive Therapy for Challenging Problems) contends so, based on decades of work with patients who have lost pounds and maintained weight through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Beck's six-week program adapts CBT, a therapeutic system developed by Beck's father, Aaron, in the 1960s, to specific challenges faced by yo-yo dieters, including negative thinking, bargaining, emotional eating, bingeing, and eating out. Beck counsels readers day-by-day, introducing new elements (creating advantage response cards, choosing a diet, enlisting a diet coach, making a weight-loss graph) progressively and offering tools to help readers stay focused (writing exercises, to-do lists, ways to counter negative thoughts). There are no eating plans, calorie counts, recipes or exercises; according to Beck, any healthy diet will work if readers learn to think differently about eating and food. Beck's book is like an extended therapy session with a diet coach. (Apr.)

Running_and_Coffee

I can really, really relate to this. I was exactly as you describe--at the top of the healthy weight range--and surrounded by super-skinny (bottom of the range) friends/family and the loathing I felt really complicated my ability to lose.

I would go on a punishing diet (Cabbage Soup Diet & others) and then have this weird, almost rebellious moment while dieting where I would think "it's not fair! So-and-so eats whatever she wants and I have to obsess over every calorie!! I am not actually fat! I should be able to eat cookies!" And then I'd sabotage my dieting efforts and start from scratch the next "Monday."

I did go to therapy, and that helped. And then--this was all about 15 years ago--I got pregnant, had a baby, did not have issues losing baby weight so was back to my starting point fairly quickly, and then discovered exercise when "me time" became something I needed in my life for the first time.

Once I began working out, I looked and felt better, and I began to like my still-BMI-of-24.9 body much better. And then once that happened, I did go on a more reasonable diet and lost weight. Not a lot, 7-10 lbs., but a clothing size or two, from an 8 to a 4/6. I've pretty much maintained that ever since then--again a decade and a half. Over the years, being a better ME through exercise has become bigger and bigger, and unlike dieting, it's not about punishing myself but improving who I am...and also valuing my body for its strength and speed vs. lack of volume...

That doesn't mean I don't have really bad moments, particularly if I start to regain. And I am 100% sure I think about food/body image more than I would ever want, say, my daughter to.

But I will say that finding a path to liking my body that way it is was necessary to develop a better relationship with food. So I vote yes to therapy and yes to any other behaviors you can do that will make you feel proud of what you, physically, can accomplish.

poorlittlefish

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I do know that this is an emotional thing. Totally and absolutely. As far as formal therapy....I guess I have to think about that. It isn't something that is done in my family and I can't really see myself doing it. I do see the value, I will just need to think on it.

When I lost the weight I was logging..I really can't tell you what happened that make it work and what sent me back into crazy-land I just know at the time I was logging, eating a mix of healthy and no so healthy foods and just not beating myself up all the time. I wish I knew, i would do it again!

I will check out that Beck book from my library. I am open to anything at this point.

Storyjorie--thanks, our situations sound very similar. I exercise, I run probably 4-5 days per week anywhere from 2-4 miles and generally I like it.

Thanks again for all your thoughts.. I will do some thinking about therapy and will check out that book for sure.

annacole94

Definitely look at CBT therapy. It's not "tell me about your mother" therapy. It's about redoing the script in your head to make it easier to live well. Changing the things you tell yourself is both possible and helpful.

Take care of yourself! You deserve to be happy and healthy.

sarajenivieve

Of course I recommend counseling but know that's not always available so I'll share my experience/ how I did it.
Analyze your media unfollow any thinspo AND fitspo, for some fitspo can be helpful for EDs its not.
Make a conscious effort to follow pages/people dedicated to body positivity. What films and shows that showcase diversity in body types.
I personally greatly healed my relationship with food by going vegan, I know this doesn't help everyone but for me between the control of what I would and wouldn't eat, but more so it gave me a reason to be healthy. Being healthy for my own sake wasn't enough but when I started to care about animals I wanted to be healthy for them so that people couldn't use my disorder as a reason for them not to change or to claim my new life style wasn't healthy, so I got healthy to be a good example and hopefully convince others.
I still periodically struggle but haven't had any major relapses in 3 years.
everyone's road is different but this is what has helped me.

GrinnyMae

I have been in your shoes. I resisted therapy and medication for my anxiety and depression. I hit a wall at the end of 2016 and just couldn't do it alone anymore. I found a fantastic physician who gave me a low dose of medication. She also set me up with some sessions with a mental health nurse. For the first time in my life, I do not spend my time obsessing about food and I'm losing weight without really trying.

You deserve to have a happy fulfilling life, we all do. I hope when you're ready and able, you'll look into treatment.

Unknown

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Tacklewasher

I suggest listening to @Look_Its_Kriss

I've read some of her posts where she describes her ED and how she has come to terms with it. She knows what she is talking about from her personal experience.

nowine4me

It sounds like you already know that slow and steady is the answer. Then try pre-logging with a quick add of a few hundred calories per day that you can skip, eat or bank. May help add some structure to your plan. Walking also helps take my mind off food.

LisaTcan

As someone who did have an actual eating disorder (anorexia in my teens, bulimia in my twenties) what your describing sounds like food/weight preoccupation. It's very common and almost normalized in our society. I have dripped in and out of this way of thinking since recovering years ago.

I recently had a baby and I'm sitting at the high end of a healthy BMI, which feels uncomfortable for me. I also had to stay at this weight for a couple years while in recovery as dieting would be too triggering for me.

What worked for me to maintain a "thin" body (BMI of 20, size 4) without being constantly obsessed with food was discovering physical activities I really liked (lifting and cycling) and eating lots of healthy food to fuel my workouts. I burned enough calories cycling 150km a week to be able to track without being super meticulous and not have to stress out about eating out on the weekend. I also did see a therapist, but again my issues were more serious than yours.

This is a blog I like that discusses this mentality https://fitisafeministissue.com/ Good luck!

endlessfall16

kshama2001 wrote: »

Can thinking and eating like a thin person be learned, similar to learning to drive or use a computer? Beck (Cognitive Therapy for Challenging Problems) contends so, based on decades of work with patients who have lost pounds and maintained weight through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Beck's six-week program adapts CBT, a therapeutic system developed by Beck's father, Aaron, in the 1960s, to specific challenges faced by yo-yo dieters, including negative thinking, bargaining, emotional eating, bingeing, and eating out. Beck counsels readers day-by-day, introducing new elements (creating advantage response cards, choosing a diet, enlisting a diet coach, making a weight-loss graph) progressively and offering tools to help readers stay focused (writing exercises, to-do lists, ways to counter negative thoughts). There are no eating plans, calorie counts, recipes or exercises; according to Beck, any healthy diet will work if readers learn to think differently about eating and food. Beck's book is like an extended therapy session with a diet coach. (Apr.)

I'm interested in the bolded part. So, what is this difference that we should be thinking about?

mlsh1969

jemhh wrote: »

Using a small deficit so that you don't feel as much like you are limited in how much you eat can help with this.

Similarly, if you exercise, doing an activity that you enjoy and aren't just doing in order to burn calories, makes a huge difference.

This is a great idea

jnducharme

Your story reminds me almost exactly of my own experience. I know how extremely disheartening problems with food are and how much it impacts one's quality of life. Although you have not been diagnosed, your symptoms such as constant thoughts about food, periods of restriction followed by complete loss of control and binging along with self-loathing and an unhealthy obsession with losing weight and body image makes me think you have a binge eating disorder. These were also my symptoms and for a while I thought I just had disordered eating but after doing quite a bit of research I found these symptoms are mostly part of binge eating disorder (BED).

For a long time I was too ashamed to talk about it because as a high achiever, perfectionist and previously very healthy and fit person an eating disorder was a huge blow to my self-esteem and identity. I thought it meant I was weak but now I realize it was my way of dealing with other stresses in my life and that many strong, people who I really admire have dealt with similar things and overcome them. I started binging when I left home for the first time at 18 and the 3 years following I yoyoed between a month or two of restriction and hard exercise followed by complete loss of control, severe binging and inability to think about anything other than food.

In order to recover over the past year and rebuild a healthy relationship with food, I had to let go of trying to restrict calories and just focus on eating healthy foods that I felt good about. I think tracking food can work in 1 of two ways; either it increases your obsession with food because you are constantly logging it or it can offer re-assurance that you do not need to worry like a mother as someone mentioned earlier. Personally, I had to let go of tracking and trying to diet/restrict for over a year just to be able to relax because i realized this approach always led to another binge so instead I focussed on not restricting but only eating foods I felt good about. I found that avoiding triggering foods (mine are sweets and high carbs) that make me feel guilty and upset with myself helps me to worry less about food. Binging/obsession with food is a toxic cycle where thoughts about food lead to over eating or binging, which leads to weight gain, which increases your self loathing and need for comfort which can conveniently be found in food and it starts all over again. I would recommend trying either eating at maintenance or a small calorie deficit no more than 1lb per week and focus instead on eating lots of veggies and foods that will not stress you out but still leave you feeling full and satisfied. Of course the end goal is to feel ok about eating any food you enjoy as long as it is in moderation but moderation is the hardest balance to achieve so I think starting by focussing on healthy foods and low stress is a good strategy because less stress about food will decrease your likely hood of binging again.

Since this is an emotional thing, one of the most helpful things to do is make sure you start your day with an activity that is not food related that boosts your self esteem. Some people recommend that this is not exercise because it can be strongly related to body image and weight loss thoughts but as long as it makes you feel good I really don't think it matters. For me, exercise makes me feel good period. Even when I have a healthy relationship with food so that was always my go to. Especially since you like to run, fresh air always helps.

I don't know if you weigh yourself but avoiding the scale for a long time was also important for me. The scale should be included with trigger foods even if you are feeling good and see positive change in your body stepping on the scale and not seeing the number you want can sink the spirits and lead to more negative thoughts and obsession about weight and food.

A lot of people have recommended going to see a therapist, I went to counselling a couple of times but never really got into it. In hind sight I wish I had known about other support for eating disorders such as over eaters anonymous or local organizations that offer peer tutoring (meeting with someone who had a similar disorder and has recovered) or mentoring groups where you meet with a group every week or two. I recommend looking into something like this because I think these would have speeded my recovery a lot and saved me a few years of misery but I understand not wanting to go. For me it was a combination of pride and also some days weren't bad so I felt like I was probably recovering and that tomorrow would be different so I didn't want to waist my time but I wish I had just hit it head on and done everything I could to make sure it was 100% gone. You deserve to live a happier life, free from being terrified of food and one of these things just might help. At the very least talking to people who have recovered can be HUGE help, I know for me it was because it gave me hope and made me believe I could to. Hope and setting goals for recovery and working towards them even if you feel like you are failing is so important because eventually it will work.

These two books were recommended to me by another girl who had recovered from BED on MFP.
Never Binge Again by Glenn Livingston
Brain over Binge by Kathryn Hansen

I recovered and you can too. Feel free to add me if you have any questions or just need support. Remembering you are not alone in this and that lots of people have gone through very similar experiences and have recovered is super important.

poorlittlefish

I just wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts. It is amazing to me that total strangers will take the time to not only reply, but reply with long and thoughtful messages. I have read all this and taken it all to heart. I have books on request from the library and for a few days, am going to take a break from logging and do some introspection on what my next steps will be. Thanks again, internet strangers, I really appreciate you!

mmmpork

I've also struggled with eating disorder/food obsession due to emotional abuse that centered around food and body image growing up. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD which also explained the urges to binge (low dopamine). I've always struggled with my weight and I've always been at least slightly overweight.

Since getting on Vyvanse I've had no trouble managing my food obsession, except the few days before my period. I also used to do a lot of weird restrictive diets and I stopped doing that too. Right now my diet is called the "Don't Eat So Damn Much" diet. I eat whatever I want, just try to stay within my calorie targets. I set really easy goals for myself to keep it positive and if I miss one it's easy to catch up... if I didn't catch (and it hasn't happened yet in the past year), then I'd adjust the rest of the goals attributing it to poor estimation on my part, not failure.

I do have relapses sometimes but now I know the triggers so I restrict the problem foods until I've worked through the triggers. The medication makes this possible, before I was on Vyvanse it was a harder struggle. And note, I've got incredible will power, I wouldn't have made it this far in my life undiagnosed without that, and I'd been applying CBT and other behavior modifications. So if you do find yourself struggling despite your best efforts, there might be a brain chemical issue at play. That said, meds alone aren't the answer, you do need to use them in combination with CBT et al for maximum benefit so it's not a waste of time to go that route first anyways.

perkymommy

I have the issues with stress eating for sure. I did good last year and lost 25 lbs by March and then summer rolled around and I gained a couple pounds and went up and down and by August when my oldest started high school I started to gain back the pounds slowly. By November I had gained the weight back and got in to that mentality that it was the holidays and I was going to enjoy them so of course I didn't try hard at all to lose weight. I had a lot of stress with her and other things going on around me and I let it affect how I eat and stopped exercising as well. It happens. I just need to remember this in the future and not let it mess me up again. I tend to let things going on in life around me affect me personally and shouldn't do it.

kshama2001

endlessfall16 wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

Can thinking and eating like a thin person be learned, similar to learning to drive or use a computer? Beck (Cognitive Therapy for Challenging Problems) contends so, based on decades of work with patients who have lost pounds and maintained weight through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Beck's six-week program adapts CBT, a therapeutic system developed by Beck's father, Aaron, in the 1960s, to specific challenges faced by yo-yo dieters, including negative thinking, bargaining, emotional eating, bingeing, and eating out. Beck counsels readers day-by-day, introducing new elements (creating advantage response cards, choosing a diet, enlisting a diet coach, making a weight-loss graph) progressively and offering tools to help readers stay focused (writing exercises, to-do lists, ways to counter negative thoughts). There are no eating plans, calorie counts, recipes or exercises; according to Beck, any healthy diet will work if readers learn to think differently about eating and food. Beck's book is like an extended therapy session with a diet coach. (Apr.)

I'm interested in the bolded part. So, what is this difference that we should be thinking about?

If you are in the Amazon listing and Look Inside, you can see parts of the book. These are the sorts of thought patterns CBT can help you change:

positivepowers

Three weeks ago I downloaded "Never Binge Again" and it's changed my life. I've never gone more than a few days without binging and never more than a few hours without craving something but since I've begun Livingston's program I've been able to not only control my inner "Pig" and stop binging but I've noticed a significant reduction in cravings. Last Thursday a vendor brought in two huge boxes of Einstein's bagels with cream cheese. I looked at them, told my inner Pig "NOT on the Food Plan" and walked off without giving the bagels another thought. I can't remember when I've ever been able to do that before. If I passed up the foods that I love I always felt deprived and obsessed on the foods until (a) All the food was gone so I couldn't have any anyway or (2) I gave in and ate . . . and ate . . . and ate!

Also, this feels like a lifetime fix, not a temporary solution like a diet. Although I've lost a few pounds, I don't care if I never lose another ounce as long as I can stop binging.

Another perk . . . my blood sugar, once so out of control that my physician was talking about putting me on insulin, has now dropped to almost normal.

ETA: BTW, Livingston's reference to the Pig (with a capital "P") is not pejorative. It's just his way of explaining the evolution of the human brain based on food availability. We are hard wired to binge when the food is plentiful so we can endure the lean times. Problem is, most of us don't really have to worry about "lean times" so we binge. The Pig is the part of our midbrain telling us to keep eating after we're full, eat another piece of cake, another doughnut, some chips, etc. just in case we aren't able to find food tomorrow. Livingston teaches how to cage the Pig and tell him to shut up.

WendyLeigh1119

I like to make Monday through Friday days where I keep a tight -1000 calorie deficit through exercise, so that I can eat enough to feel good and then loosen up on the weekends and give myself an extra 500 calories (or whatever works)and take off exercise so that it feels like a series of short routines that I can manage rather than a never ending calorie-count-a-thon. With that larger weekdays deficit and much lower weekend deficit, I don't feel like I'm dieting constantly and still see consistent weight loss around 1.5lbs.

It's kind of like looking forward to the weekend at work. Work harder "at work" so that you can look forward to "days off" on the weekend. It's still just math....but it's a schedule and mentality most people already adhere to. I find it works well for me and feels like a normal routine when applied to calories, exercise, and food choices.

jenmarrs429

I can relate a little.....I think for me I can get in a state where I am afraid of hunger. Hunger must be avoided at all costs. Hunger is an emergency. This can lead me to overeating and obsessing. Feeling hunger without fear and trying to relax is what helps me.

erienneb66

I did not read all of the comments so if I am repeating sorry but-

I have never been diagnosed either. BUT I did start seeing a therapist about a year ago for disordered thinking when it comes to food. I didn't start losing weight until 2 weeks ago even though I've been working with her for a year, every 2-3 weeks.

I'm not going to share particulars of the things I've had to work through but getting the other voice into the mix, a professional who could talk me down or help me work my own problems, has been the driving force behind changing myself. My thought processes with food will always be a struggle but I think putting the conscious effort in to talk about what's happening, explain to myself what is happening, finding the why's, the patterns, all of that helped me. I still slip and it's only been 2 weeks that the scale is reflecting and that I'm actually logging, but I'm in a better place.

And honestly I didn't come back on here for a long time. I started with the physical act of writing what I was eating down, without looking at calories. After a few weeks when that was a habit, I started adding number counts. Couple more weeks, looking at macros. So on and so forth till I was able to join back up here and handle the days I go read. I log my binges, and they've gotten smaller over time because of it.

150poundsofme

I too have a binge eating disorder. And I just can't get it together - binge-diet repeat cycle. I am well over 50 and have been doing this way of eating just about my whole life. My Mom is well over 80 and she too will say "I was good today" "I got under the number". I think it is so sad that my Mom is still trying to diet. So sad that me in my late 50's is still trying to diet. Great advice all who gave. I can only give you a big hug and strength, determination, motivation or whatever you can do to get this under control and be happy for the rest of you life.

kommodevaran

positivepowers wrote: »

Three weeks ago I downloaded "Never Binge Again" and it's changed my life. I've never gone more than a few days without binging and never more than a few hours without craving something but since I've begun Livingston's program I've been able to not only control my inner "Pig" and stop binging but I've noticed a significant reduction in cravings. Last Thursday a vendor brought in two huge boxes of Einstein's bagels with cream cheese. I looked at them, told my inner Pig "NOT on the Food Plan" and walked off without giving the bagels another thought. I can't remember when I've ever been able to do that before. If I passed up the foods that I love I always felt deprived and obsessed on the foods until (a) All the food was gone so I couldn't have any anyway or (2) I gave in and ate . . . and ate . . . and ate!

Also, this feels like a lifetime fix, not a temporary solution like a diet. Although I've lost a few pounds, I don't care if I never lose another ounce as long as I can stop binging.

Another perk . . . my blood sugar, once so out of control that my physician was talking about putting me on insulin, has now dropped to almost normal.

ETA: BTW, Livingston's reference to the Pig (with a capital "P") is not pejorative. It's just his way of explaining the evolution of the human brain based on food availability. We are hard wired to binge when the food is plentiful so we can endure the lean times. Problem is, most of us don't really have to worry about "lean times" so we binge. The Pig is the part of our midbrain telling us to keep eating after we're full, eat another piece of cake, another doughnut, some chips, etc. just in case we aren't able to find food tomorrow. Livingston teaches how to cage the Pig and tell him to shut up.

I'm reading this now, thanks for the tip. (It even forced me to get Kindle, which I have resisted.) My mind is "luckily" male enough to not take offence of the "Pig" reference. I've been calling my midbrain monkey brain, reptilian brain and grandma, why not squealing pig

But I'm doing something differently. Foods I tend to overeat, aren't foods I love! But I don't hate them either. I just prefer "foods I can eat to satiety". Foods that are pleasurable only in large quantities, are special occasion foods. And I'm so OK with that. Nothing is off limits, but there are limits, and things have proper times and places. You could call it self discipline, but it's a very kind version of discipline.