Doubts about Stronglifts - could do with advice/encouragement!

comptonelizabeth

About me: I'm 61 and had never lifted until recently. I started using mfp last September as I wanted to gain weight and muscle. So far I've gained around 7 kgs and am not far off my goal.
I suffer from IBD which is a chronic bowel disorder and also have osteoporosis and degenerative disc disease so I wanted to ease gradually into lifting.
I began with the nerd fitness bodyweight programme which is great but I found I was having to do more and more reps so I switched to strong lifts 4 weeks ago.
Now I seem to keep reading everywhere that reps of at least 8 are necessary in order to progress,unless you're lifting very heavy - which I'm not! I've started light deliberately as I wanted to concentrate on form and avoid injury. But I'm wondering - is the 5x5 thing enough? I'm also not increasing the weights as quickly as the programme recommends because to be honest I'm finding it tougher than I thought I would! On my rest days I feel shattered and exhausted!
Not sure what I'm asking really- I just have this sense I may be doing something wrong. Sorry for the ramble- any thoughts would be appreciated!

TR0berts

First, let me preface this by stating that I'm not really sure how to say what I'm thinking. I started typing, but I can see where some people may take this the wrong way. I hope not, but here goes...

While I don't know that there's anything inherently wrong with a 61yo woman with bone/disc issues starting barbell training (including StrongLifts), I'm not sure I'd really advise it. Did you speak with your doctor(s) first? That said, no - you don't need reps of 8+ to progress. Not unless whatever plan you're following says so.

If you're able to progress on SL, I'd say you're doing fine. If you're feeling tired on rest days, then I'd say - provided your form is good, which I'll assume it is, considering you stated that you wanted to concentrate on form - that you're most likely stressing your body/muscles to an extent where you will build some muscle. Provided, of course, you're eating enough. That said, as a 61yo woman, I'm sure your hormones are such that any muscle you put on will come on slooooooooowly. But, that's OK.

Just a little insight into building muscle, here, although I won't bore you with too much detail. What you need is nutrition and progressive resistance training. You seem to have both. WRT to the training, the number of reps per set is - for the most part - irrelevant. Eric Helms did a great piece a while back (two different videos, IIRC, cover this concept) that showed (and referenced studies) that showed that whether it's 3 sets of 8 or 5 sets of 5 didn't matter. What mattered was making sure that the intensity (weight) and volume were sufficient to stimulate the muscles. As mentioned previously, if you're tired on your rest days, it sounds like the volume and intensity is sufficient for you.


TL/DR: you seem like you'll be fine.

comptonelizabeth

TR0berts wrote: »

First, let me preface this by stating that I'm not really sure how to say what I'm thinking. I started typing, but I can see where some people may take this the wrong way. I hope not, but here goes...

While I don't know that there's anything inherently wrong with a 61yo woman with bone/disc issues starting barbell training (including StrongLifts), I'm not sure I'd really advise it. Did you speak with your doctor(s) first? That said, no - you don't need reps of 8+ to progress. Not unless whatever plan you're following says so.

If you're able to progress on SL, I'd say you're doing fine. If you're feeling tired on rest days, then I'd say - provided your form is good, which I'll assume it is, considering you stated that you wanted to concentrate on form - that you're most likely stressing your body/muscles to an extent where you will build some muscle. Provided, of course, you're eating enough. That said, as a 61yo woman, I'm sure your hormones are such that any muscle you put on will come on slooooooooowly. But, that's OK.

Just a little insight into building muscle, here, although I won't bore you with too much detail. What you need is nutrition and progressive resistance training. You seem to have both. WRT to the training, the number of reps per set is - for the most part - irrelevant. Eric Helms did a great piece a while back (two different videos, IIRC, cover this concept) that showed (and referenced studies) that showed that whether it's 3 sets of 8 or 5 sets of 5 didn't matter. What mattered was making sure that the intensity (weight) and volume were sufficient to stimulate the muscles. As mentioned previously, if you're tired on your rest days, it sounds like the volume and intensity is sufficient for you.


TL/DR: you seem like you'll be fine.

Thank you,that's what I needed to hear ! You've explained it perfectly.
And no,I didn't take your initial comments the wrong way! My doctor's view is,as long as I "listen to my body "and don't work through pain,anything goes. I know I'm not going to build a lot of muscle. But since I started with the bodyweight programme a few months ago,what I *have* noticed is an increase in strength and flexibility,and greater ability to do normal,day to day activities which used to make me wince! Less reliance on painkillers too. Plus,years of steroids (prednisone)have actually weakened my muscles and I want to reverse or halt that if possible.
Thanks again !

AliceDark

"Heavy" is a relative term, based on a lot of variables (your weight, age, any issues, how long you've been training, etc.) If it's heavy for you, it's heavy. This is over-simplifying quite a bit to make the point, but if it's a case where you can do 20+ reps and could probably keep going, that's not heavy. If you're anywhere in the 5-10 rep range, that's heavy for you. That's all just to say that what's considered heavy lifting is unique to you and you alone, and you should never feel badly about where that is for you.

Do you like your current program? Can you do it safely without exacerbating your issues? If so, keep at it! A 5x5 program is not only enough, but it's AWESOME to see a woman who is a little bit older embrace lifting! As long as it's safe for you to do and you like it, that's all that's important.

One thing in your post jumps out at me: you say that you feel "shattered and exhausted" on rest days. That seems excessive. It's more normal to have extra fatigue when you first start a new program (just because it's new), but consistently feeling that way might be a clue that you're over-doing it. Once you've adapted to the new activity, feeling a little stiff, a little sore or a little tired on rest days is more the ballpark that I'd want to aim for.

comptonelizabeth

Thanks for the encouragement
It's definitely fatigue rather than sore muscles- I actually don't mind a bit of soreness! I'm wondering if I need to up my calories a bit. Also (I posted about this a couple of weeks ago ) I'm not sleeping well which doesn't help,but I will keep an eye on it.

Barbonica

I am 55 and started lifting about 5 years ago. I lift heavy, but rotate my programs every 3-5 months depending on how I am feeling and what my goals are. When ever I change my program, or during times when i am focused on lifting heavy (for example, training for a power lifting meet), i find i need more sleep. Go to bed a little earlier, or sleep in a little if you can. I also find it is really important to make sure you are fueling your workouts. We are not eating anywhere as much as the young'uns, so I think it is a little easier to not have enough of some macros. For me it is carbs, which are really essential for fueling your workouts (grains, not fruit because you burn off the sugar too fast), but for you it might be protein or fat. Before you up your calories, consider changing your macros for a couple of weeks to see if that helps. Good luck!

comptonelizabeth

Barbonica wrote: »

I am 55 and started lifting about 5 years ago. I lift heavy, but rotate my programs every 3-5 months depending on how I am feeling and what my goals are. When ever I change my program, or during times when i am focused on lifting heavy (for example, training for a power lifting meet), i find i need more sleep. Go to bed a little earlier, or sleep in a little if you can. I also find it is really important to make sure you are fueling your workouts. We are not eating anywhere as much as the young'uns, so I think it is a little easier to not have enough of some macros. For me it is carbs, which are really essential for fueling your workouts (grains, not fruit because you burn off the sugar too fast), but for you it might be protein or fat. Before you up your calories, consider changing your macros for a couple of weeks to see if that helps. Good luck!

Thank you ! It's good to hear from other (relatively!) older people.
You're right about sleep and I'm trying! Also macros- I tend to go over on protein and fats and am often under on carbs. It can be tricky for me to eat more carbs as my gut disorder means I can't tolerate whole grains and a lot of fruit and veg but I guess white rice,white bread and potatoes are just as good.

Troutsy

Strong lifts is a lot of fun. It's currently the program I am using also. If you don't want to start at the 45lbs the program starts you at, many gyms have the straight bars that are lower weights. I think mine start at 15lbs.
They look like:


my only other piece of advice is with osteoporosis and degenerative disc disease, I would show the program to your doctor before you start. Good luck!

comptonelizabeth

Thank you! I'm doing the programme at home - I didn't start at 45lbs! But those bars look interesting.....
I'm due to see my doctor soon so I'll ask her. My osteoporosis isn't severe (yet) but I know there's a risk of compression fractures with more severe disease so you're right,it's sensible to check.

Edit just to add : I've actually noticed a big reduction in back pain since I started the bodyweight programme a few months ago,and so far no increased pain with strong lifts

middlehaitch

I am 63, 5'1, and maintain at 100-105lbs started Nerd fitness at 60 then moved on to lifting.
(just included that for context)

Have a read through the All Pro programme. It is a rep progression rather than weight with a heavy, medium, light day each week. The moves are the same as most 5x5 programmes.

I personally find increasing my 1RM by reps instead of weight a little less stressful mentally. I like the comfort of working with 1 weight for 5 weeks and feel more prepared to up it at the end of that time. ( I lift at the gym alone so am quite safety conscious and have no desire to injure myself) v

As far as feeling tired on the off days, I felt that too. I had to keep upping my calories above my normal exercise feedback of 200 as I lost 5 lbs in the first month and was becoming a virtual couch potato.

I ended up adding 250 cals to my daily goal (not just lifting days), cutting alternate day cardio to 30 min LISS, walking or rowing machine, and adding in a 90 min yoga class to help with balance and flexibility- it was also very relaxing.

I was overjoyed when the penny dropped and all the talk and posts about lift heavy means lift heavy for you (and push towards progression no matter how small). I totally thought I had to start with a 45 lbs bar and was horrified/ intimidated

I asked my rec centre to bring in a womans bar for me. They got a 17 and 35 lbs. I tend to use the 17 (even though I could use the 35) as it is in little demand and gives me better flexibility with the load. It is a little shorter too so I find I can balance it better.

Cheers, h.

comptonelizabeth

middlehaitch wrote: »

I am 63, 5'1, and maintain at 100-105lbs started Nerd fitness at 60 then moved on to lifting.
(just included that for context)

Have a read through the All Pro programme. It is a rep progression rather than weight with a heavy, medium, light day each week. The moves are the same as most 5x5 programmes.

I personally find increasing my 1RM by reps instead of weight a little less stressful mentally. I like the comfort of working with 1 weight for 5 weeks and feel more prepared to up it at the end of that time. ( I lift at the gym alone so am quite safety conscious and have no desire to injure myself) v

As far as feeling tired on the off days, I felt that too. I had to keep upping my calories above my normal exercise feedback of 200 as I lost 5 lbs in the first month and was becoming a virtual couch potato.

I ended up adding 250 cals to my daily goal (not just lifting days), cutting alternate day cardio to 30 min LISS, walking or rowing machine, and adding in a 90 min yoga class to help with balance and flexibility- it was also very relaxing.

I was overjoyed when the penny dropped and all the talk and posts about lift heavy means lift heavy for you (and push towards progression no matter how small). I totally thought I had to start with a 45 lbs bar and was horrified/ intimidated

I asked my rec centre to bring in a womans bar for me. They got a 17 and 35 lbs. I tend to use the 17 (even though I could use the 35) as it is in little demand and gives me better flexibility with the load. It is a little shorter too so I find I can balance it better.

Cheers, h.

Thank you, this makes me happy! I know that intimidated feeling and I,too,have been staying at the same weights level - at least with some of the exercises (I seem to be able to lift heavier with deadlifts)
I'll check out the programme you mention. Thanks again.

Edit : I also lift alone,at home,and have similar safety concerns

middlehaitch

@comptonelizabeth deadlifts are my strongest lift too. I can manage a 10 lbs over body weight on a 1RM but usually lift at 75% ish.
Squat is my weakest as I had traumatic injury to my left leg when I was 14 and my knee locks if I try to go heavy. I leg press with the hopes of improving that.

cheers, h.

cwolfman13

comptonelizabeth wrote: »

About me: I'm 61 and had never lifted until recently. I started using mfp last September as I wanted to gain weight and muscle. So far I've gained around 7 kgs and am not far off my goal.
I suffer from IBD which is a chronic bowel disorder and also have osteoporosis and degenerative disc disease so I wanted to ease gradually into lifting.
I began with the nerd fitness bodyweight programme which is great but I found I was having to do more and more reps so I switched to strong lifts 4 weeks ago.
Now I seem to keep reading everywhere that reps of at least 8 are necessary in order to progress,unless you're lifting very heavy - which I'm not! I've started light deliberately as I wanted to concentrate on form and avoid injury. But I'm wondering - is the 5x5 thing enough? I'm also not increasing the weights as quickly as the programme recommends because to be honest I'm finding it tougher than I thought I would! On my rest days I feel shattered and exhausted!
Not sure what I'm asking really- I just have this sense I may be doing something wrong. Sorry for the ramble- any thoughts would be appreciated!

A couple of things..."heavy" is relative to the lifter..."heavy" generally describes a rep range (in this case 5x5) where you are working at a higher % of your 1RM. Different rep ranges do different things...low reps at a higher % of your 1 RM are optimal for raw strength gains.



To be honest, I'm not sure I would do an intro power lifting program like 5x5 with the conditions you mentioned...I'd certainly run it by my doctor first.

comptonelizabeth

cwolfman13 wrote: »

comptonelizabeth wrote: »

About me: I'm 61 and had never lifted until recently. I started using mfp last September as I wanted to gain weight and muscle. So far I've gained around 7 kgs and am not far off my goal.
I suffer from IBD which is a chronic bowel disorder and also have osteoporosis and degenerative disc disease so I wanted to ease gradually into lifting.
I began with the nerd fitness bodyweight programme which is great but I found I was having to do more and more reps so I switched to strong lifts 4 weeks ago.
Now I seem to keep reading everywhere that reps of at least 8 are necessary in order to progress,unless you're lifting very heavy - which I'm not! I've started light deliberately as I wanted to concentrate on form and avoid injury. But I'm wondering - is the 5x5 thing enough? I'm also not increasing the weights as quickly as the programme recommends because to be honest I'm finding it tougher than I thought I would! On my rest days I feel shattered and exhausted!
Not sure what I'm asking really- I just have this sense I may be doing something wrong. Sorry for the ramble- any thoughts would be appreciated!

A couple of things..."heavy" is relative to the lifter..."heavy" generally describes a rep range (in this case 5x5) where you are working at a higher % of your 1RM. Different rep ranges do different things...low reps at a higher % of your 1 RM are optimal for raw strength gains.



To be honest, I'm not sure I would do an intro power lifting program like 5x5 with the conditions you mentioned...I'd certainly run it by my doctor first.

Thanks for the explanation and yes, I will !

lorrpb

61 yo female doing a variation on SL. You are doing great, keep doing it. Lift what you feel comfortable with and progress as you feel able. I am always questioning whether I'm doing the "right" thing, but I keep progressing. I don't have room for a 45 lb, 72 inch bar plus cant use it for upper body lifts and no squat rack. I have a 5 ft bar that I add plates to for deadlift. It's 14 lbs. I've been able to progress quite nicely with DL. I started quite slowly until I felt comfortable with my form, now I add weight to DL almost every session. I use dumbbells or adjustable dumbell bars for most other lifts. I got all those at goodwill and the same plates fit both my db bars and my bb. Regarding reps and sets, what I have gatehred is to look at the total reps per session, or the total cumulative weight lifted per each lift. It doesn't matter whether you do 2 sets x 12 reps or 5 sets x 5 reps, especially if you're not looking for all out power lifting. Hope that helps a bit, I'm no expert.

comptonelizabeth

lorrpb wrote: »

61 yo female doing a variation on SL. You are doing great, keep doing it. Lift what you feel comfortable with and progress as you feel able. I am always questioning whether I'm doing the "right" thing, but I keep progressing. I don't have room for a 45 lb, 72 inch bar plus cant use it for upper body lifts and no squat rack. I have a 5 ft bar that I add plates to for deadlift. It's 14 lbs. I've been able to progress quite nicely with DL. I started quite slowly until I felt comfortable with my form, now I add weight to DL almost every session. I use dumbbells or adjustable dumbell bars for most other lifts. I got all those at goodwill and the same plates fit both my db bars and my bb. Regarding reps and sets, what I have gatehred is to look at the total reps per session, or the total cumulative weight lifted per each lift. It doesn't matter whether you do 2 sets x 12 reps or 5 sets x 5 reps, especially if you're not looking for all out power lifting. Hope that helps a bit, I'm no expert.

Thank you! I'm actually using dumbbells for most of the exercises apart from the deadlift,as I don't have a rack and don't feel safe using the barbell without one for the other exercises. For the squats I'm using dumbbells and doing goblet squats.
It's great to hear you're progressing!
From what I've researched,lifting actually helps with osteoporosis and with disc problems but I will check with my doctor as advised.

comptonelizabeth

Update : went to see my gp yesterday and showed her the programme. On looking at my records it appears I have osteopenia which is the kind of prequel to osteoporosis. Dexa scans show it is mainly in my hips rather than my spine She thinks that lifting cannot do any harm and in fact will have a positive effect as it'll improve my strength and help to preserve bone mass. She also said it will help my lower back issues *providing * I take things slowly and do it with proper form. She suggested a session with a personal trainer to check I'm doing things correctly.
Her only concern was any exercise that involves bending and lifting which she thought could be risky - so she suggests avoiding deadlifts!
Any suggestions as to alternatives?

uninc57

Lunges with dumbbells. You can keep your body upright while still working the hamstrings.

comptonelizabeth

uninc57 wrote: »

Lunges with dumbbells. You can keep your body upright while still working the hamstrings.

Thank you!

crackpotbaby

Strength training is highly recommended for prevention of and preventing further deterioration of osteoporosis.

However, the doctor's comments to make sure your form is absolutely on point though are critical.

Perhaps you could book some sessions with a trainer (as you mentioned) not only to check this but create a program/progression specific to your needs with any safer adaptation so as not to exacerbate the lower back issues.

Essentially, take the advice of the health professionals and develop your lifting technique under supervision.

comptonelizabeth

Thanks - I'm going to check out the local gym to see if they have trainers there who do one to one sessions.