Why do people put on muscle after lightweight/high reps?
alexrosader
Posts: 79 Member
So all my life I've been told (and eventually told myself)that I can't leave the gym without hitting some low reps and heavy AF weights, I COULDN'T LEAVE THE GYM WITHOUT doing this, I know it's an ego thing. However once spring comes across I start dieting and lift lightweights in the 15-25 rep range and noticed myself getting leaner or "bigger" in comparison to my bulkier or "softer" look. Am I like hallucinating or something? Probably I am lolol
2
Replies
-
Search for a post I put up this week by Brad Schoenfeld on building muscle using 40% 1RM.2
-
yvanvillegas wrote: »So all my life I've been told (and eventually told myself)that I can't leave the gym without hitting some low reps and heavy AF weights, I COULDN'T LEAVE THE GYM WITHOUT doing this, I know it's an ego thing. However once spring comes across I start dieting and lift lightweights in the 15-25 rep range and noticed myself getting leaner or "bigger" in comparison to my bulkier or "softer" look. Am I like hallucinating or something? Probably I am lolol
The bold is the main difference. You looked bigger because you got leaner. You can gain muscle in a variety of rep ranges as @Hello_its_Dan mentioned but you sacrifice strength and potentially time.8 -
Some muscles respond well to that rep range like legs... they are used all day and have a higher resilience to weight.1
-
blackcomaro wrote: »Some muscles respond well to that rep range like legs... they are used all day and have a higher resilience to weight.
it depends on the ratio of type 1 and type 2 fibers.
it's still my understanding though that 6-12 reps with 3-5 sets is the proper amount of volume to stimulate hypertrophy.4 -
Hmmm....sorry but i tend to disagree here0
-
But you do want to be doing 40 reps0
-
based on what information?0
-
how light are we talking here? and how many reps?1
-
Im not here to argue with you. Im no good at pasting articles and things but.... i have read it. You have got to shock the body...otherwise it says i know you... you do 5 sets of twelve or whatever. Keep you body guessing.... think your strong how strong is your mind.
I guarantee only the strong can push through the pain of high reps!9 -
blackcomaro wrote: »Im not here to argue with you. Im no good at pasting articles and things but.... i have read it. You have got to shock the body...otherwise it says i know you... you do 5 sets of twelve or whatever. Keep you body guessing.... think your strong how strong is your mind.
I guarantee only the strong can push through the pain of high reps!
Okay, so what you're referring to is General Adaptation Syndrome which requires progressive overload and periodized training for maximal adaptation.
This doesn't mean that hypertrophy is not most effective in that particular repetition range...
I think it's probably best not to argue; especially when you refuse to provide any evidence for your claims.8 -
One last point then im out... so if your a women and used to walking in heels all day. You think low reps are going to build your calfs??? Thats my 2cents.4
-
blackcomaro wrote: »One last point then im out... so if your a women and used to walking in heels all day. You think low reps are going to build your calfs??? Thats my 2cents.
Yes, it would.5 -
blackcomaro wrote: »One last point then im out... so if your a women and used to walking in heels all day. You think low reps are going to build your calfs??? Thats my 2cents.
Dancers. Gymnasts. Major calves. Didn't lift a weight until two years ago.2 -
blackcomaro wrote: »Im not here to argue with you. Im no good at pasting articles and things but.... i have read it. You have got to shock the body...otherwise it says i know you... you do 5 sets of twelve or whatever. Keep you body guessing.... think your strong how strong is your mind.
I guarantee only the strong can push through the pain of high reps!
That whole shock the body thing is a bunch of bro science16 -
VintageFeline wrote: »blackcomaro wrote: »One last point then im out... so if your a women and used to walking in heels all day. You think low reps are going to build your calfs??? Thats my 2cents.
Dancers. Gymnasts. Major calves. Didn't lift a weight until two years ago.
calf size mostly comes down to genetics. it's why we always joke about men skipping calf day and getting calf implants.
I was a gymnast for 8 years (high level competitor training 25+ hours a week). I have normal sized calves.
The thing about gymnastics is that it trains within multiple modalities. Some movements require immense strength, some require stabilization, some require power, some require endurance, some require agility, etc. Training this way (called "functional training") is very effective for an overall fit body. As opposed to training for aesthetics (making the muscle larger in size) they've trained for functional skills.
If you look at male gymnasts for example, they look visually ripped. But in all actuality they are relatively small in body size compared to a bodybuilder for example. Why? Because of their training style.
you'll notice as mentioned above, this is why i personally think it's so important to train on a periodized program.
5 -
Not here to argue just point out some interesting facts.
Last point "exactly".... with the dancers etc..high reperitions! Look at an over weight persons calves... massive.3 -
blackcomaro wrote: »Not here to argue just point out some interesting facts.
Last point "exactly".... with the dancers etc..high reperitions! Look at an over weight persons calves... massive.
Keeps saying not here to argue and comes back to argue...
More than likely those massive calves are from fat, because obese...
14 -
blackcomaro wrote: »Not here to argue just point out some interesting facts.
Last point "exactly".... with the dancers etc..high reperitions! Look at an over weight persons calves... massive.
Keeps saying not here to argue and comes back to argue...
More than likely those massive calves are from fat, because obese...
it's interesting you mention that, because once you get fat enough you start to gain fat in strange places where we generally hold less fat. like hands, feet, calves, forehead/back of neck, etc.2 -
The large calves in obese people is from strength gained from the necessity of carrying around the extra body weight. I firmly believe this is why obese men can lose the fat and then get ripped easier than a scrawny guy can, the obese were already technically bulking and doing weight lifting everyday just moving themselves around. Whereas an obese female will still have larger stronger muscles than the average female at the same lower weight, she will not have as much underlying muscle as a man (hormones, estrogen enabling fat etc) and will not be as lean unless worked hard for. Plus this is only true if a calorie deficit was appropriate and not drastic otherwise more lean mass will have been lost and they end up in danger of low lean mass, higher body fat%, aka skinny fat.7
-
Muscle's respond to stress. Do you really believe your muscle's can determine the difference between high weight/low rep and low weight/high rep assuming you can stress them equally?
You should switch up between volume and intensity for other reasons but I prefer high, controlled reps because I can max out time under tension.1 -
There's something here that that also plays a factor in all of this. It's not always about the speed/quantity of reps, slowing down the reps at a mid-high weight will also gain some large benefits, this is done through forcing the muscles to work longer and harder during that time.
i can throw out 12 reps easy, but if i slow it down to 3 seconds fighting gravity going down and 1 second going up this fatigues the muscles much quicker because they're forced to do more work. This lengthens the eccentric contraction of the muscles in question, this won't be true for everyone, but for many people it is very true.
Try it for yourself in a few workouts, you'll feel the effects much faster than doing quick reps3 -
Mini_Medic wrote: »The large calves in obese people is from strength gained from the necessity of carrying around the extra body weight. I firmly believe this is why obese men can lose the fat and then get ripped easier than a scrawny guy can, the obese were already technically bulking and doing weight lifting everyday just moving themselves around. Whereas an obese female will still have larger stronger muscles than the average female at the same lower weight, she will not have as much underlying muscle as a man (hormones, estrogen enabling fat etc) and will not be as lean unless worked hard for. Plus this is only true if a calorie deficit was appropriate and not drastic otherwise more lean mass will have been lost and they end up in danger of low lean mass, higher body fat%, aka skinny fat.
do you have any evidence to back this up, or is it just based on anecdotal evidence?
1 -
yvanvillegas wrote: »So all my life I've been told (and eventually told myself)that I can't leave the gym without hitting some low reps and heavy AF weights, I COULDN'T LEAVE THE GYM WITHOUT doing this, I know it's an ego thing. However once spring comes across I start dieting and lift lightweights in the 15-25 rep range and noticed myself getting leaner or "bigger" in comparison to my bulkier or "softer" look. Am I like hallucinating or something? Probably I am lolol
Most likely the lower BF% leads to looking bigger due to more definition. But I would point out that you would be better served by hitting the higher rep ranges when bulking, as your muscles will grow more than the high weight low rep ranges <6 reps. And when dieting try and hit the heavy weights/low reps so you don't lose strength while dieting, and recovery is easier, and with less cals, easier recovery is a good thing1 -
silenieuxevo wrote: »There's something here that that also plays a factor in all of this. It's not always about the speed/quantity of reps, slowing down the reps at a mid-high weight will also gain some large benefits, this is done through forcing the muscles to work longer and harder during that time.
i can throw out 12 reps easy, but if i slow it down to 3 seconds fighting gravity going down and 1 second going up this fatigues the muscles much quicker because they're forced to do more work. This lengthens the eccentric contraction of the muscles in question, this won't be true for everyone, but for many people it is very true.
Try it for yourself in a few workouts, you'll feel the effects much faster than doing quick reps
yes, tempo is also important. hypertrophy and maximal strength is usually 2/0/2 and endurance is usually 4/2/1.0 -
silenieuxevo wrote: »There's something here that that also plays a factor in all of this. It's not always about the speed/quantity of reps, slowing down the reps at a mid-high weight will also gain some large benefits, this is done through forcing the muscles to work longer and harder during that time.
i can throw out 12 reps easy, but if i slow it down to 3 seconds fighting gravity going down and 1 second going up this fatigues the muscles much quicker because they're forced to do more work. This lengthens the eccentric contraction of the muscles in question, this won't be true for everyone, but for many people it is very true.
Try it for yourself in a few workouts, you'll feel the effects much faster than doing quick reps
Artificially slowing the load down forces you to use lower loads. Lower loads reduces mechanical tension.
This may not necessarily be a good thing depending on how far you take this strategy.
http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/how-fast-should-you-lift-to-maximize-muscle-growth/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/189786165 -
As others have said size =/= strength.
Relatively low weight at higher reps are more likely to force fluid into the muscles making them BIGGER. This is known as "sarcoplasmic hypertrophy". You may get a little stronger as well.
Relatively high weight at lower reps are more likely to cause micro-tears in the muscles which is repaired with more muscle fibers, thus making the muscles STRONGER. This is known as "myofibrillar hypertrophy". You may get a little bigger as well.
One debate is whether it is better to LOOK strong than to BE strong.
Another debate is what rep ranges and weights are ideal for those results.
Then there are people who argue how FAST the reps should be, or the "Time Under Tension".
Everyone is different and the person who scientifically proves any of this (proper reproducible SCIENCE) will probably win a Nobel Prize.
As it stands, what seems to work best for you may not be ideal for him or her.
In addition, the dieting will cut your body fat and this will frequently make you appear bigger because it is easier to see the muscles.
This info is all over the internet. If you need a primer on proper workouts, diet, nutrition and supplementation then I recommend
Thinner Leaner Stronger: The Simple Science of Building the Ultimate Female Body for women and
Bigger Leaner Stronger: The Simple Science of Building the Ultimate Male Body for men.
10 -
For the record, I do not think this assertion is valid especially since you didn't clarify what you think "heavy weights/low reps" is.And when dieting try and hit the heavy weights/low reps so you don't lose strength while dieting, and recovery is easier, and with less cals, easier recovery is a good thing
Your assertion implies that you think programs like StrongLifts5x5, Starting Strength or Wendler's 5/3/1 are relatively "easy" to run on less calories; while cutting.
Therefore I would wager that you have not ran anything like one of them at the intend weight ranges -if at all- and certainly not to completion.
Wendler and Rippetoe specifically state that you should not try running these programs if you are a "cutting queen" and afraid to eat - "YNDTP": You're Not Doing The Program.
You will NOT recover and it will fry your Central Nervous System (CNS); just plain wear you out.
You can do it for maybe a month or so if you are young but it WILL catch up with you.
We are not talking about elite-level powerlifters running the Texas Method or Westside either; just beginner and intermediate lifters on a beginner's program.*
1RM - 5RM is what I consider "heavy weight" and I consider 1 - 5 reps to be "low reps".
For the record, when I think of "strong" I look at it this way:
Deadlifting 350lbs when you are 190 pounds and unable to do a single pull-up or dip is one thing.
Deadlifting 290lbs at a body weight of 150 lbs followed by 4 sets of 9 dips and sets of 6 strict pull-ups and is another.
Which one of those two people would you consider to be the strongest?
Otherwise, I agree with you about the body fat and definition.
* Yes, beginners can make great progress on 5/3/1, especially when following advice in Beyond; using things like AMRAP FSL and the 5's PRO.3 -
blackcomaro wrote: »Im not here to argue with you. Im no good at pasting articles and things but.... i have read it. You have got to shock the body...otherwise it says i know you... you do 5 sets of twelve or whatever. Keep you body guessing.... think your strong how strong is your mind.
I guarantee only the strong can push through the pain of high reps!
I'm pretty sure most reputable trainers/researchers quit believing this 1960's Joe Weider "Muscle Confusion" stuff a long time ago.6 -
silenieuxevo wrote: »snip
Artificially slowing the load down forces you to use lower loads. Lower loads reduces mechanical tension.
This may not necessarily be a good thing depending on how far you take this strategy.
http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/how-fast-should-you-lift-to-maximize-muscle-growth/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978616silenieuxevo wrote: »snip
Artificially slowing the load down forces you to use lower loads. Lower loads reduces mechanical tension.
This may not necessarily be a good thing depending on how far you take this strategy.
http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/how-fast-should-you-lift-to-maximize-muscle-growth/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978616
also very true, heavily depends if you're trying to tone, or grow too.
I admittedly tried the high rep low weight route for a long time myself and i got no where with it,
Cortisol in the body will also have a rather heavy impact on gains/losses as well
I also forgot to mention, muscle building, weight loss, etc There is no one size fits all with it, everything you do should be tailored specificly to your body what works for my friends does nothing for me, what works for me...doesn't them so on and so forth
something i would suggest considering for all: drop the "diet" from the phrases, losing body fat and keeping it off generally requires a lifestyle change, so does building a muscle.
Last: A lot of good people stay awesome folks ^^0 -
blackcomaro wrote: »One last point then im out... so if your a women and used to walking in heels all day. You think low reps are going to build your calfs??? Thats my 2cents.
DYEL?3
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 427 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions