Carbs versus Fats. This site needs to update its recommendations.
Replies
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AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Current global research confirms that advice given by Government Health Bodies everywhere, is in serious need of review.
It now seems that Carbohydrates are the culprits, while Fats are the friends.
Sarah Hallsberg (a Doctor treating obesity and Diabetes, in the USA) has much to say, and furthermore, Dr Andreas Eenfeldt supports her assertions. To add, an article in a British Newspaper, puts it in black and white.
Even Time Magazine, as long ago as 2014, admitted they printed - and got it wrong. It's a long article. But well worth reading.
In brief, the way this site - and others - recommends weight loss seems, by current assertions, to be flawed.
And if any relief is wanted from the intensity of Science, you only need turn to Butter Bob, who has caused a little bit of a stir with his assertion that "Butter makes your Pants fall off!" videos. (They even wrote a song about it!)
However, even if I ignore guidelines outlined here, and reverse the quantities of fat and carbs recommended to me at my registration (40g and 150g daily, respectively) the assessment each day is going to show an inaccurate conclusion, because according to the way calories are counted on here, I'd be way off the path.
I have actually been following a LCHF diet for 2 weeks now and have lost 6 lbs. Butter Bob will give you a better run-down on the types of foods i've been eating, but sticking with his tried-and-tested formulas, and listening to the Medics, above, has certainly been an eye-opening experience.
Incidentally, my Husband, who is a type 2 Diabetes, has also been adhering to this regime, and has lost weight. If he carries on like this (his Doctor has said) he will come off his meds completely, and rid himself of Diabetes for good. All he will need to do, is continue with his new way of eating....
Please note: I'm sure people have lost a lot of weight by sticking with a specific regime recommended here. I'm merely putting forward the point that it may not all be as it has always been put to us....
How do other folks on here feel about this?
I've been following a near zero carb, near zero fat cut for six days, and have dropped 6.4 lbs. Neener neener.
What does this prove? Water loss happens pretty fast when carbohydrates are restricted.6 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »It is true that we don't actually need carbs (the body makes is own sugar from fat and protein), but as you say, carbs are found in a lot of foods that provide nutrients we do need, and those foods tend to be delicious, and people tend to like delicious food.
My point is that Fat per se isn't bad for you, but most dietary recommendations are that you cut it out or restrict intake, to specific fats (such as oils found in flax, olives, avocados and fish). Fats don't need to be reduced or eliminated. It's a globally-accepted premise, due to much influence from the 'wrong' quarters, but it;s a trend that seriously needs reversing.
And it's nothing new, either. But the voices that have needed to be heard, are only just being heard, now.
So interesting to be discussing this with you!
The only fats that have been globally accepted as beneficial are MUFA. There is still a lot of debate over SFA and no one recommends transfats. There isn't enough evidence to suggest some unlimited quality of fats. It takes a lot of research before the government will make a sweeping change. And MFP is following the government stands. But to suggest that carbs are bad but fats are good, is utterly wrong. You can't sit there an tell me that quinoa, beans, rice, fruits and veggies are bad for you. What is bad for you, is an over abundance of calories, obesity and inactivity. Personally, if you find increasing fats and decreasing carbs is beneficial, you can certainly change it, but fats do not fill me up and I definitely struggle on my low carb days as compared to my high carb days (130g on LC days, and 320g on high carb days); fats just don't provide the volume I need.5 -
I have familial hypercholesterlemia. There is no debate to be had for me.
Fortunately, I can set my own macros here and have.
I follow a low fat plan, keep an eye on a protein goal (I aim to eat at least 100 grams per day) and fill in the rest with carbohydrates. I also, thanks to being able to customize what I see, follow my intake of saturated fat and be sure to keep this low.
Thanks to my diet, weight loss, and exercise, I have lowered my cholesterol to within regular range and I have good ratios. I do not need statins. I am very fortunate. A lot of people with FH are unable to do this. It helps that I've only inherited the gene from one parent.
ETA: On the heels of what psuLemon said, fats are not satiating for me. Protein and fiber and starch? Those three are my love language.0 -
Half the links in the first post only mention an insulin response with carbs and sugars.
Yet they were supposedly written by Doctors who should be smart enough to realise that your insulin spikes with proteins also.
Makes me not read any thing else they say.4 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Current global research confirms that advice given by Government Health Bodies everywhere, is in serious need of review.
It now seems that Carbohydrates are the culprits, while Fats are the friends.
How do other folks on here feel about this?
Carbohydrates are the culprits for what, and fats are the friends to whom?
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WinoGelato wrote: »AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Current global research confirms that advice given by Government Health Bodies everywhere, is in serious need of review.
It now seems that Carbohydrates are the culprits, while Fats are the friends.
How do other folks on here feel about this?
Carbohydrates are the culprits for what, and fats are the friends to whom?
The articles outline this.
Really interesting to see all the responses here, I must take a moment to thank you all for being so civil.
I posted a discussion on this subject in another (non-food-based) forum and I can't repeat some of the responses I got. Really.
I have no idea where people get off being so rude....0 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Current global research confirms that advice given by Government Health Bodies everywhere, is in serious need of review.
It now seems that Carbohydrates are the culprits, while Fats are the friends.
How do other folks on here feel about this?
Carbohydrates are the culprits for what, and fats are the friends to whom?
The articles outline this.
Really interesting to see all the responses here, I must take a moment to thank you all for being so civil.
I posted a discussion on this subject in another (non-food-based) forum and I can't repeat some of the responses I got. Really.
I have no idea where people get off being so rude....
Probably based on how you wrote the OP. You essentially tell people who are eating carbs that they are unhealthy because fat guidelines are erroneous, which completely ignores the healthiest countries in the world are 70% carb based, the amount of research already done to date and backed up your view with YouTube and NYT articles as opposed to scientific research.
In general, bashing one diet in support of another is pretty much not going to end well. At least that is the experience in my 5 years of modding this site.8 -
WinoGelato wrote: »AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Current global research confirms that advice given by Government Health Bodies everywhere, is in serious need of review.
It now seems that Carbohydrates are the culprits, while Fats are the friends.
How do other folks on here feel about this?
Carbohydrates are the culprits for what, and fats are the friends to whom?
Interestingly, there are cultures that thrive on both.
My point being that contrary to what some might like to think (not you, WinoGelato), I don't think that there's 100% definitive answer to this debate.
I have seen reference made to some preliminary research pointing to there being a genetic factor behind which macro distribution best suits a certain individual.
We can only hope that more study is done to hone in on such a finding and put discussions like this to bed for once and for all. I've grown weary of the need for there to be a "winner" in these types of discussions. I know a lot of us have.
OP, you've found out how to set a macro distribution to suit your preferences. I wish you the best with your efforts.1 -
This site does need to update it's recommendations. I would love to be able to tweak my protein, carb and fat levels but there isn't an option (that I know of) to do so.0
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This site does need to update it's recommendations. I would love to be able to tweak my protein, carb and fat levels but there isn't an option (that I know of) to do so.StealthHealth wrote: »AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »I'm brand new to the site. I had no idea we could do that. kind of you to suggest it, thank you.
How do I do that, please?
From web version:
From Homepage select Goals.
Click Edit button next to Daily Nutrition Goals
Use Dropdowns for Macronutrients to set % (5% chunks only in free version)
Ensure they add up to 100%
Click Save Changes
From app
From Homepage tap ... and select Goals
Select Calorie and Macronutrient Goals
Set % (ensuring they add up to 100%)
Tap back arrow until back at homepage
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This site does need to update it's recommendations. I would love to be able to tweak my protein, carb and fat levels but there isn't an option (that I know of) to do so.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/my_goals
You can do custom goals in that link.1 -
Hahahaha! I read some Mercola and David Wolfe and thought I knew everything about nutrition once too.
Then I actually educated myself on nutrition, dropped the fad diets and lost 60 pounds.
Good luck with all of that everyone! Enjoy all your crazy food rules! I hated it when I did it and it didn't make me any healthier (actually all that meat and fat made my blood pressure sky rocket) but if it works for you, that's great.4 -
Probably based on how you wrote the OP. You essentially tell people who are eating carbs that they are unhealthy because fat guidelines are erroneous, which completely ignores the healthiest countries in the world are 70% carb based, the amount of research already done to date and backed up your view with YouTube and NYT articles as opposed to scientific research.
In general, bashing one diet in support of another is pretty much not going to end well. At least that is the experience in my 5 years of modding this site.
I wasn't bashing anything, I was merely pointing to articles that did so. I did open it up for discussion, and with regard to diabetes II specifically, it seems clear that diabetics have hitherto been given detrimental, not to say harmful information....
But as I stated, the same post here elicited a far different response here to elsewhere.
So it can't be based on the OP.
It seems to me that people here are more courteous.
Of course, I have no way of knowing how the other site was moderated, but it seems moderation is effective here, and that therefore there are excellent standards of contribution.
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The fact is you may eat what ever amount of carbs and fats you choose no matter what MFP tells you.1
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AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Probably based on how you wrote the OP. You essentially tell people who are eating carbs that they are unhealthy because fat guidelines are erroneous, which completely ignores the healthiest countries in the world are 70% carb based, the amount of research already done to date and backed up your view with YouTube and NYT articles as opposed to scientific research.
In general, bashing one diet in support of another is pretty much not going to end well. At least that is the experience in my 5 years of modding this site.
I wasn't bashing anything, I was merely pointing to articles that did so. I did open it up for discussion, and with regard to diabetes II specifically, it seems clear that diabetics have hitherto been given detrimental, not to say harmful information....
But as I stated, the same post here elicited a far different response here to elsewhere.
So it can't be based on the OP.
It seems to me that people here are more courteous.
Of course, I have no way of knowing how the other site was moderated, but it seems moderation is effective here, and that therefore there are excellent standards of contribution.
It's probably because I ban first and then ask questions later.... . If someone has a medical condition (Type II or familial hypercholesterolemia), they should be finding the solution that addresses that need. But their required path cannot be applied to the rest of the community. This is why I laugh when people recommend a path based on requirements from those with diabetes.
People also fail to understand that the cause of a disease and the treatment of that disease aren't the same thing and in some cases, can be the complete opposite (e.g., Diverticulitis).5 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »It is true that we don't actually need carbs (the body makes is own sugar from fat and protein), but as you say, carbs are found in a lot of foods that provide nutrients we do need, and those foods tend to be delicious, and people tend to like delicious food.
My point is that Fat per se isn't bad for you, but most dietary recommendations are that you cut it out or restrict intake, to specific fats (such as oils found in flax, olives, avocados and fish). Fats don't need to be reduced or eliminated. It's a globally-accepted premise, due to much influence from the 'wrong' quarters, but it;s a trend that seriously needs reversing.
And it's nothing new, either. But the voices that have needed to be heard, are only just being heard, now.
So interesting to be discussing this with you!
The only fats that have been globally accepted as beneficial are MUFA.
How can you say that when EFAs are PUFAs?1 -
I like carbs and carbs like me.How do other folks on here feel about this?
I do dislike set macro percentages though (restriction adversely affects adherence long term) so when I'm food logging I set minimums for protein & fat and rest of my calorie allowance comes from whatever macro I fancy on the day or best suits that day's activity within my overall calorie allowance.
So on a big cycling day I become a carb monster.
Also feel it's just as silly to demonise carbs as it clearly was to demonise fats.
There's a huge amount of denial amongst overweight people about the fact they simply ate too much.
Hence the constant quest to find a magic bullet whether it's a particular macro / supplement / pill or potion.
If you look at all the latest Broscience that have been backed by real science. That is exactly their recommendation whether losing gaining or maintaining. Calculate calories needed. Set minimum protein for muscles, set minimum fats for hormones and joints, and fill the remaining calories with whatever tickles your fancy.0 -
I like carbs and carbs like me.How do other folks on here feel about this?
I do dislike set macro percentages though (restriction adversely affects adherence long term) so when I'm food logging I set minimums for protein & fat and rest of my calorie allowance comes from whatever macro I fancy on the day or best suits that day's activity within my overall calorie allowance.
So on a big cycling day I become a carb monster.
Also feel it's just as silly to demonise carbs as it clearly was to demonise fats.
There's a huge amount of denial amongst overweight people about the fact they simply ate too much.
Hence the constant quest to find a magic bullet whether it's a particular macro / supplement / pill or potion.
If you look at all the latest Broscience that have been backed by real science. That is exactly their recommendation whether losing gaining or maintaining. Calculate calories needed. Set minimum protein for muscles, set minimum fats for hormones and joints, and fill the remaining calories with whatever tickles your fancy.
Sounds vaguely familiar. From a post over four years ago here on MFP: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819055/setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets/p12 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »It is true that we don't actually need carbs (the body makes is own sugar from fat and protein), but as you say, carbs are found in a lot of foods that provide nutrients we do need, and those foods tend to be delicious, and people tend to like delicious food.
My point is that Fat per se isn't bad for you, but most dietary recommendations are that you cut it out or restrict intake, to specific fats (such as oils found in flax, olives, avocados and fish). Fats don't need to be reduced or eliminated. It's a globally-accepted premise, due to much influence from the 'wrong' quarters, but it;s a trend that seriously needs reversing.
And it's nothing new, either. But the voices that have needed to be heard, are only just being heard, now.
So interesting to be discussing this with you!
The only fats that have been globally accepted as beneficial are MUFA.
How can you say that when EFAs are PUFAs?
You are definitely right. I don't know what I was thinking.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »It is true that we don't actually need carbs (the body makes is own sugar from fat and protein), but as you say, carbs are found in a lot of foods that provide nutrients we do need, and those foods tend to be delicious, and people tend to like delicious food.
My point is that Fat per se isn't bad for you, but most dietary recommendations are that you cut it out or restrict intake, to specific fats (such as oils found in flax, olives, avocados and fish). Fats don't need to be reduced or eliminated. It's a globally-accepted premise, due to much influence from the 'wrong' quarters, but it;s a trend that seriously needs reversing.
And it's nothing new, either. But the voices that have needed to be heard, are only just being heard, now.
So interesting to be discussing this with you!
The only fats that have been globally accepted as beneficial are MUFA.
How can you say that when EFAs are PUFAs?
The thing with PUFAs is that you really don't need much. The ratio of w-3 to w-6 is what's really important. Last I saw, so long as you can hit a 1:1 ratio, you really only need about 5g/day, total.0 -
Might or might not come back for this later but you can change the macros to fit your individual choice of diet and the calories would still calculate the same. No need to push your own choice as a standard when no one standard fits everybody anyway.
ETA: I'm just as likely to listen to someone who calls themselves "Butter Bob" as I am to someone who calls themselves "Banana Girl".3 -
Nice to see the Daily Mail has found spare time to encourage/advocate/plug LCHF in between their brave attempt to classify everything in the world as either a carcinogen or a cancer-preventing agent.6
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »Nice to see the Daily Mail has found spare time to encourage/advocate/plug LCHF in between their brave attempt to classify everything in the world as either a carcinogen or a cancer-preventing agent.
Thank you for your input, @HeliumIsNoble, I can totally see your PoV....
Interestingly, Wikipedia has no banned the Sun, the D.Express and the D.Mail as reliable sources of info for misleading, untruthful and inflammatory content. I daresay this doesn't apply to every category (currently, we're talking racism and immigration issues, specifically) but I fully take on board the view that if it's the DM, one should take 'everything with a pinch of salt' - which has coincidentally in and of itself, had unfair bad press!
However, I don't think that one can lump the whole of the newspaper and all of its articles into one category. It IS accurate, with regard to the link I originally posted, and it's not all lies and misleading stuff.....0
This discussion has been closed.
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