Rack pulls Vs. Deadlift

Troutsy

Now I know there is no true substitute for the deadlift..

I started back at strong lifts after being away from the gym for awhile and I'm having trouble with my form on my deadlifts. I know I need to work on my flexibility and form and I'm wondering for the time being would rack pull be a decent temporary substitute. That way I can do the rack pulls when I do my strong lifts and then work on my flexibility for my deadlifts.. if that makes any sense.

I'm not sure if it's easy to transition from a rack pull to the deadlift or if it's even worth it to worry about

StealthHealth

I think that that compromise sounds reasonable if you have issues with DL.

What I would say is that you should get some quality PT analysis on the deadlift form and issues and talk to them specifically about which areas are preventing proper form.

AllanMisner

Yes, that does sound like a good substitute for the time being. A deadlift with poor form is a bad thing. But while you're in the gym, get a pvc pipe or broom handle and practice the form of the deadlift.

StealthHealth

Do you also have flexibility issues which cause you problems in the squat? I think that is more common? Just wondering.

Troutsy

StealthHealth wrote: »

Do you also have flexibility issues which cause you problems in the squat? I think that is more common? Just wondering.

Surprisingly no lol. My squats are good and I can go below parallel no problem. I have some good PTs at my gym and I think I have a free session with one. I'll def set an appointment.

Troutsy

AllanMisner wrote: »

Yes, that does sound like a good substitute for the time being. A deadlift with poor form is a bad thing. But while you're in the gym, get a pvc pipe or broom handle and practice the form of the deadlift.

Allan Misner
NASM Certified Personal Trainer
Host - 40+ Fitness Podcast

I've seen the PVC piping at the gym and I have a broom at home I can practice with. Thank you.

CarlydogsMom

I generally do rack pulls now that I don't have a trainer watching me closely--but my situation is likely different (54 yr-old F, with long-standing back issues). I found I tend to lift more weight doing rack pulls than I can deadlifting, but there's def a missing component on that very first few inches that are added in full deadlifts. BUT...it's safer for me and I'm ok with that.

What I've also noticed is that my form is better using the trap-bar (or hex-bar? the open cage you step into) for deadlifts when I do feel OK going lower. Trap-bar deads seem to promote better form for me; may want to try that as well?

Troutsy

Interesting... I've never tried the hex bars before. I know there is one, maybe I can give that one a try. Thanks for the idea

_incogNEATo_

How many deadlift sessions are you truly going to miss while working on form and flexibility? I think that rack pulls are a good accessory, but you even recognize yourself that it's NOT a substitute. If you're using lighter weights (which you should be) to work on form, then it shouldn't hurt to continue doing deadlifts. As you do them, you'll catch on to more cues for form and your flexibility will increase. I still tweak my form from time to time.

Would you mind explaining what kind of flexibility issues you're referring to?

erickirb

_incogNEATo_ wrote: »

How many deadlift sessions are you truly going to miss while working on form and flexibility? I think that rack pulls are a good accessory, but you even recognize yourself that it's NOT a substitute. If you're using lighter weights (which you should be) to work on form, then it shouldn't hurt to continue doing deadlifts. As you do them, you'll catch on to more cues for form and your flexibility will increase. I still tweak my form from time to time.

Would you mind explaining what kind of flexibility issues you're referring to?

I am trying to get my head around that too. Deadlift plane of movement doesn't require a lot of flexibility, unlike the squat.

Troutsy

I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

JohnnyPenso

If you're starting on SL again, you should be going fairly light on the DL so I'd engage a personal trainer and work on your form while you work with lighter weights to build all the stabilizer muscles while you work up closer to your max weight. The trap bar or hex bar is an excellent alternative to the traditional straight bar as it takes makes your back somewhat less of an issue, but be cautious in jumping back to the straight bar at the same weight as your back won't be ready for it and you'll have to drop back quite a bit in weight and work up again.

ew_david

Awolturtle wrote: »

I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

That's kind of odd considering, with the SL program, DL usually comes last in the lineup, therefore you'd be well warmed up. Or are you doing them first? What kind of DL are you doing? Conventional, sumo, something else?

TR0berts

Awolturtle wrote: »

I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

Do you have the bar at the proper height? It should be 8.75-9 inches (measured at the center, IIRC) from the floor. If you have it lower, then that would explain why you're having difficulty.

If that's the case, and you need to raise it some, then put some plates flat under the loaded plates to raise it to the correct height. I wouldn't worry about trying to get the exact height - 8.5" or 9.5" is likely close enough for now.

But rack pulls - I find - are significantly different and not a proper substitute in most cases.

Troutsy

_dracarys_ wrote: »

Awolturtle wrote: »

I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

That's kind of odd considering, with the SL program, DL usually comes last in the lineup, therefore you'd be well warmed up. Or are you doing them first? What kind of DL are you doing? Conventional, sumo, something else?

I know I'm an anomaly lol. I'm doing them last in my work out but now that I'm thinking about what @TR0berts said, my bar may be too low in the first place. I do conventional deadlifts (I have tried sumo in the past ) I started out at the 95 pounds the program starts out at.

ew_david

Awolturtle wrote: »

_dracarys_ wrote: »

Awolturtle wrote: »

I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

That's kind of odd considering, with the SL program, DL usually comes last in the lineup, therefore you'd be well warmed up. Or are you doing them first? What kind of DL are you doing? Conventional, sumo, something else?

I know I'm an anomaly lol. I'm doing them last in my work out but now that I'm thinking about what @TR0berts said, my bar may be too low in the first place. I do conventional deadlifts (I have tried sumo in the past ) I started out at the 95 pounds the program starts out at.

Ohh gotcha. Yeah, if you're not using bumper plates, the regular 25s would put the bar lower than it should be.

Troutsy

_dracarys_ wrote: »

Awolturtle wrote: »

_dracarys_ wrote: »

Awolturtle wrote: »

I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

That's kind of odd considering, with the SL program, DL usually comes last in the lineup, therefore you'd be well warmed up. Or are you doing them first? What kind of DL are you doing? Conventional, sumo, something else?

I know I'm an anomaly lol. I'm doing them last in my work out but now that I'm thinking about what @TR0berts said, my bar may be too low in the first place. I do conventional deadlifts (I have tried sumo in the past ) I started out at the 95 pounds the program starts out at.

Ohh gotcha. Yeah, if you're not using bumper plates, the regular 25s would put the bar lower than it should be.

I don't deadlift again until Friday but I will try sliding some plates underneath to raise the bar up a little. I honestly feel kind of dumb if that's the issue. I don't remember having this issue the last time I did SL.

not_a_runner

When I pull from a deficit (similar to having 25 lb plates on the bar) it always feels awkward and my position doesn't feel quite right. I'm guessing that's your issue here as well.
A rack pull or box pull could work to get the bar higher. The lowest rack setting in my gym is pretty high though, which again changes up your form from the standard bar height.
(Most people can also deadlift much heavier from a rack/box, so keep that in mind when switching back to the floor, you may want to drop some more weight.)

singingflutelady

I have mobility issues and can't deadlift off the floor without rounding my back so I put 2 step risers under each side to raise the bar a few inches higher

JoRocka

Rack pulls will not substitute- nor help you if you have problems at the bottom of the lift.

Rack pull is designed to help strengthen lock out and glute activation.

You'd be far better off working with a broom stick/pvc pipe- altering so you're pulling at a lower height that's still closer to the floor than a rack pull.

You want something to help get you to the traditional height for set up- rather than starting high and working back down.

Troutsy

Thank you @JoRocka , @singingflutelady and @TresaAswegan. I will look around my gym to see if they have some mini risers or I can build up with some plates to get the bar a little higher (at least to where a 45lbs plate will sit), but not high enough for a rack pull.