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Elementary School Gym teachers telling kids to restrict calories!
Replies
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Alatariel75 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »For all the people saying she was doing the right thing - question. If you felt that your kid had had enough to eat for the day, would you give them a handful of nuts instead of dinner? Seeing as how your cool with them being taught that's a reasonable thing to do?
This might shock you, but my kids sometimes skip dinner if they are not hungry.
Crazy, right?
smh.
Read the question.
smh.
Ok, if they had a big lunch, and only wanted a handful of nuts, why not?
IIFYM.
"if they are not hungry."
" only wanted a handful of nuts"
The question has nothing to do with their hunger levels, or what they want - I asked if you decided the kid had had enough calories for the day, would you give them a handful of nuts instead of dinner.
The teacher wasn't teaching "Don't eat if you are not hungry" she was teaching that if you're out of calories, don't eat dinner.
Yes. I've cut my kids off of food when I know they've exceeded what they should be eating for a day. How is this odd?
Oh wait, I get it! In the US, food equals love, rather than just nutrition.
What makes you think I'm in the US? And you've not fed your kids dinner, when they're hungry, because you figure they've had enough fr the day? for real?
If they have had enough, they won't be hungry. They may want to eat a lot out of habit or because they like the taste of the food being served, but they should not actually be hungry.
Even if the kids are a bit hungry at bedtime once in a while, that isn't a bad thing either. IMO Just yesterday my middle son was procrastianting snacking in the evening. Bedtime rolled around and he hadnt eaten for about 5 hours. He went to bed anyways because it was time to go to bed. He may have been hungry but he can eat in the morning. He's 12.2 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »For all the people saying she was doing the right thing - question. If you felt that your kid had had enough to eat for the day, would you give them a handful of nuts instead of dinner? Seeing as how your cool with them being taught that's a reasonable thing to do?
Of course not. They get what everyone else is having not special meals. Do people count calories for their kids?!
If you're teaching calorie counting (which I think is absurd but whatever) you have to give real world examples of what you do and how it works. If calorie counting is how you expect these kids to control their weight it needs to taught and modeled for them. Weight control doesn't happen by teaching a perfect textbook example of calorie counting. There are real, concrete things you do to achieve that ... like eating nuts for dinner because you overindulged earlier.
I'm not really sure why this thread started up again, but I think the problem is that the gym teacher wasn't actually teaching any kind of curriculum, she was sharing her own issues/approach with kids for whom her approach was likely not what would ever be taught or appropriate (kids calorie counting probably isn't a great approach, although some may disagree). On the other hand, kids understanding how calories work as part of a unit or class that covers health and nutrition, great -- this was not that.
Nuts for dinner is fine if that's what you want, but it seems like an absurd example to me for either nutrition or calorie counting. It's not a balanced meal, and NOT low cal (unless the nuts are a very small amount) compared to many more nutrient-dense, balanced meals.
I don't think it's a big deal to eat super light or skip a meal if you had a big meal earlier. I don't think it's a big thing to have one unbalanced or non nutrient dense meal, either. Our next door neighbors (who were not overweight) when I was a kid regularly had a huge post church meal on Sundays and then just some popcorn instead of dinner. We thought it seemed like a fun custom, and on rare occasion I've skipped a meal and just had popcorn, which is less nutrient dense than nuts. I've grabbed nuts and some raw veg for breakfast too (although it wasn't intended as a super low cal breakfast). But if I were teaching a class or planning the curriculum I'd be aware that it's quite easy, depending on the kids, the demographic, etc., to get the idea that you should punish yourself for overeating or skip meals to keep weight down or some such and that it might not be understood in the right context (and I don't want to teach kids to be neurotic about weight or calories, although I do want them to understand that part of being healthy is a healthy weight). I think the teacher going on about her stuff outside of the curriculum or any planned curriculum in that way is what's being objected to.3 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »For all the people saying she was doing the right thing - question. If you felt that your kid had had enough to eat for the day, would you give them a handful of nuts instead of dinner? Seeing as how your cool with them being taught that's a reasonable thing to do?
My kids skip dinner when they are not hungry, or only eat a small portion.
Tonight my oldest was not hungry at dinner so he had a slice of ham and a few cucumbers.
Yesterday me second oldest was not hungry at dinner so he skipped it. At about 8or 9pm he did have a handful of nuts. We have a bowl of mixed nuts on the table. He probably had 1/2 a cup of nuts and then went to bed.
I find this a much better solution than eating when not hungry. I'm cool with it. My kids are all slim and active. They eat when they are hungry and don't eat when they are not. Mostly. They are all have a weight percentile below that of their height. For example, son #3 is at the 100th percentile for height but about 75% for weight.
At least once a week I skip dinner because I'm not hungry. Most days of the week I skip breakfast. It's not unhealthy, IMO.
That's not what I asked. I asked if you thought your kid had eaten enough (ie was "out of calories") would you tell them to have a handful of nuts rather than giving them dinner. The teachers wasn't advocating not eating if your not hungry, she was advocating not eating because you've run out of calories.
The teacher shared his personal experience, he didn't give them instructions to do exactly what he said.
Out of curiosity, why do you keep assuming the teacher was a man when it was explicitly stated that the teacher was a she in the first post?1 -
highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.2
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »For all the people saying she was doing the right thing - question. If you felt that your kid had had enough to eat for the day, would you give them a handful of nuts instead of dinner? Seeing as how your cool with them being taught that's a reasonable thing to do?
My kids skip dinner when they are not hungry, or only eat a small portion.
Tonight my oldest was not hungry at dinner so he had a slice of ham and a few cucumbers.
Yesterday me second oldest was not hungry at dinner so he skipped it. At about 8or 9pm he did have a handful of nuts. We have a bowl of mixed nuts on the table. He probably had 1/2 a cup of nuts and then went to bed.
I find this a much better solution than eating when not hungry. I'm cool with it. My kids are all slim and active. They eat when they are hungry and don't eat when they are not. Mostly. They are all have a weight percentile below that of their height. For example, son #3 is at the 100th percentile for height but about 75% for weight.
At least once a week I skip dinner because I'm not hungry. Most days of the week I skip breakfast. It's not unhealthy, IMO.
That's not what I asked. I asked if you thought your kid had eaten enough (ie was "out of calories") would you tell them to have a handful of nuts rather than giving them dinner. The teachers wasn't advocating not eating if your not hungry, she was advocating not eating because you've run out of calories.
The teacher shared his personal experience, he didn't give them instructions to do exactly what he said.
Out of curiosity, why do you keep assuming the teacher was a man when it was explicitly stated that the teacher was a she in the first post?
Haven't reread the OP since it started, thought it was a man. Does that disturb you, do you think I'm being sexist, or are you projecting?1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »For all the people saying she was doing the right thing - question. If you felt that your kid had had enough to eat for the day, would you give them a handful of nuts instead of dinner? Seeing as how your cool with them being taught that's a reasonable thing to do?
My kids skip dinner when they are not hungry, or only eat a small portion.
Tonight my oldest was not hungry at dinner so he had a slice of ham and a few cucumbers.
Yesterday me second oldest was not hungry at dinner so he skipped it. At about 8or 9pm he did have a handful of nuts. We have a bowl of mixed nuts on the table. He probably had 1/2 a cup of nuts and then went to bed.
I find this a much better solution than eating when not hungry. I'm cool with it. My kids are all slim and active. They eat when they are hungry and don't eat when they are not. Mostly. They are all have a weight percentile below that of their height. For example, son #3 is at the 100th percentile for height but about 75% for weight.
At least once a week I skip dinner because I'm not hungry. Most days of the week I skip breakfast. It's not unhealthy, IMO.
That's not what I asked. I asked if you thought your kid had eaten enough (ie was "out of calories") would you tell them to have a handful of nuts rather than giving them dinner. The teachers wasn't advocating not eating if your not hungry, she was advocating not eating because you've run out of calories.
The teacher shared his personal experience, he didn't give them instructions to do exactly what he said.
Out of curiosity, why do you keep assuming the teacher was a man when it was explicitly stated that the teacher was a she in the first post?
Haven't reread the OP since it started, thought it was a man. Does that disturb you, do you think I'm being sexist, or are you projecting?
None of the above. I just noticed it before, thought hmm, I thought it was a woman so checked and found I was right. I noticed you doing it again, so asked.4 -
My kids heard aspartame and sugar was bad in school, couple that with my "healthy" wheat no white bread and no candy at home ( they got candy once a week when we went to the grocery store) they started a strike against diet drinks and McDonald's at a young age ( I took them there a lot:)). Add to that college and I have one pescatarian and one moderate eater that eat lean chicken, salads, tons of veggies and fruit with moderate candy. The moderate candy eater just finished a 50k the other one is fit too.
I dieted when they were at home but didn't have a big weight issue until they left home and I started many super restrictive diets causing rapid loss then added weight gain. We ate out a lot so the "healthy" message they learned at home was somewhat messed up.
I guess my point is something they heard at school (erroneous) and our home environment ( focus on "healthy" whatever that meant at the time) helped them to be conscious of the food they ate/eat at a young age (5th grade). As adults one will still not eat at McDonald's the other will and makes "healthy" choices there. One teaches her kids slow, go and whoa foods to her small kids. One is raising his kid as pescatarian. And everyone is active in spite of my very lazy self, neither battle weight issues as I did. Neither will drink diet drinks nor do their children have regular soda. I'm interested to see how their children choose to eat as adults:).
We can't stop our kids from hearing things, but we can take it as opportunities to have conversations with them. They are individuals and will come to their on conclusions eventually. We can't shelter them from everything said.
AND I'd like to add it's ok to be upset with what they hear (I still wanted McDonald's).
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fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?4 -
coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
Not only that, but calorie counting to ensure that intake is appropriate for height, age and activity level is a huge part of what "good food choices look like".0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?
Well, I was mainly replying to this line...
"there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting"
Calorie counting is the one sure-fire way to ensure you maintain a healthy weight. Obviously, kids not learning about calorie counting is working really well to ensure we have an obesity epidemic.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?
Whether or not a site's TOS prohibits minors for legal reasons has no bearing on whether or not children who are learning about nutrition, diet, and exercise in a physical education and health class at school should learn about calories and employing conscious control of intake.
In general a website's TOS is a legal disclaimer designed to protect the owner of the site from any repercussions that might come from minors using a site which include but are not limited to things like collecting personally identifiable information, the posting of photographs of the minors, and actions resulting from minors interacting with adults on the Internet.
I think it's kind of a stretch to take that to mean that MFP is affirmatively stating that calorie counting is bad for anyone under 18 years of age.1 -
coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?
Well, I was mainly replying to this line...
"there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting"
Calorie counting is the one sure-fire way to ensure you maintain a healthy weight. Obviously, kids not learning about calorie counting is working really well to ensure we have an obesity epidemic.
I think it's important for kids to learn about energy balance, that being at a healthy weight is about an equation: calories in and calories out (CICO). I think it would be important to teach kids things like the CO side includes the calories you burn just being alive, as well as being active, as well as exercising for fitness. We have a lot of adults who come here who don't even have that basic understanding. I think you should teach kids that when that equation is unbalanced one way or the other, it has an impact on your weight. Again, lots of adults who come here don't understand that it's really about a mathematical energy balance equation.
Then I think it's really important to teach kids about nutrition, both macro and micro nutrients, and moderation. Depending on the age, I don't think you need to stress counting calories for children; and given that this was in an elementary school, I don't think that needs to come up as more than a passing reference.4 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?
Whether or not a site's TOS prohibits minors for legal reasons has no bearing on whether or not children who are learning about nutrition, diet, and exercise in a physical education and health class at school should learn about calories and employing conscious control of intake.
In general a website's TOS is a legal disclaimer designed to protect the owner of the site from any repercussions that might come from minors using a site which include but are not limited to things like collecting personally identifiable information, the posting of photographs of the minors, and actions resulting from minors interacting with adults on the Internet.
I think it's kind of a stretch to take that to mean that MFP is affirmatively stating that calorie counting is bad for anyone under 18 years of age.
See my follow up post.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?
Well, I was mainly replying to this line...
"there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting"
Calorie counting is the one sure-fire way to ensure you maintain a healthy weight. Obviously, kids not learning about calorie counting is working really well to ensure we have an obesity epidemic.
I think it's important for kids to learn about energy balance, that being at a healthy weight is about an equation: calories in and calories out (CICO). I think it would be important to teach kids things like the CO side includes the calories you burn just being alive, as well as being active, as well as exercising for fitness. We have a lot of adults who come here who don't even have that basic understanding. I think you should teach kids that when that equation is unbalanced one way or the other, it has an impact on your weight. Again, lots of adults who come here don't understand that it's really about a mathematical energy balance equation.
Then I think it's really important to teach kids about nutrition, both macro and micro nutrients, and moderation. Depending on the age, I don't think you need to stress counting calories for children; and given that this was in an elementary school, I don't think that needs to come up as more than a passing reference.
So, why do you think many adults come here, lacking understanding about it all just being an energy balance?
Could it be, perhaps, calorie counting only gets a passing reference today, in school? School is where this stuff SHOULD be taught.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?
Whether or not a site's TOS prohibits minors for legal reasons has no bearing on whether or not children who are learning about nutrition, diet, and exercise in a physical education and health class at school should learn about calories and employing conscious control of intake.
In general a website's TOS is a legal disclaimer designed to protect the owner of the site from any repercussions that might come from minors using a site which include but are not limited to things like collecting personally identifiable information, the posting of photographs of the minors, and actions resulting from minors interacting with adults on the Internet.
I think it's kind of a stretch to take that to mean that MFP is affirmatively stating that calorie counting is bad for anyone under 18 years of age.
See my follow up post.
How do you teach someone to balance a numerical equation without any reference to the numbers, especially when they're in the arithmetic and not abstract mathematics phase of learning?1 -
coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?
Well, I was mainly replying to this line...
"there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting"
Calorie counting is the one sure-fire way to ensure you maintain a healthy weight. Obviously, kids not learning about calorie counting is working really well to ensure we have an obesity epidemic.
I think it's important for kids to learn about energy balance, that being at a healthy weight is about an equation: calories in and calories out (CICO). I think it would be important to teach kids things like the CO side includes the calories you burn just being alive, as well as being active, as well as exercising for fitness. We have a lot of adults who come here who don't even have that basic understanding. I think you should teach kids that when that equation is unbalanced one way or the other, it has an impact on your weight. Again, lots of adults who come here don't understand that it's really about a mathematical energy balance equation.
Then I think it's really important to teach kids about nutrition, both macro and micro nutrients, and moderation. Depending on the age, I don't think you need to stress counting calories for children; and given that this was in an elementary school, I don't think that needs to come up as more than a passing reference.
So, why do you think many adults come here, lacking understanding about it all just being an energy balance?
Could it be, perhaps, calorie counting only gets a passing reference today, in school? School is where this stuff SHOULD be taught.
I think that just like any math concept, it should be included in the curriculum at the appropriate age. Elementary school kids, don't need to get into counting calories just like they wouldn't be doing trig and calculus. Talking about nutrition IS the most important thing for elementary school aged kids. As they get older, then the calorie concept can become a larger focus, even getting into calorie counting - maybe calculating the differences between calorie content of different macronutrients and how that would contribute to a day. I've heard of high school classes where the kids design meal plans and calculate the calories and nutrition for a day or week or even a month, for different individuals. I think that's a great lesson, at that age.
I think the reason so many people come here not understanding CICO is that the fundamental energy balance isn't taught. That doesn't even have to get into counting calories. I'm a proponent for counting calories, obviously, but I know that there are other ways to be successful at managing the weight without counting and logging. But whether you count cals or not, CICO still applies and THAT is the message that I think is failing to be taught to individuals of many ages...2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I think that just like any math concept, it should be included in the curriculum at the appropriate age.
And like every other concept in mathematics, there's a reason that we start kids out with counting and arithmetic rather than algebra, discrete mathematics or calculus.
Adding and subtracting four digit numbers is something my school taught in third grade. When I was 8. No reason those four digit numbers couldn't be calories.
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Alatariel75 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »For all the people saying she was doing the right thing - question. If you felt that your kid had had enough to eat for the day, would you give them a handful of nuts instead of dinner? Seeing as how your cool with them being taught that's a reasonable thing to do?
This might shock you, but my kids sometimes skip dinner if they are not hungry.
Crazy, right?
smh.
Read the question.
smh.
Ok, if they had a big lunch, and only wanted a handful of nuts, why not?
IIFYM.
"if they are not hungry."
" only wanted a handful of nuts"
The question has nothing to do with their hunger levels, or what they want - I asked if you decided the kid had had enough calories for the day, would you give them a handful of nuts instead of dinner.
The teacher wasn't teaching "Don't eat if you are not hungry" she was teaching that if you're out of calories, don't eat dinner.
Yes. I've cut my kids off of food when I know they've exceeded what they should be eating for a day. How is this odd?
Oh wait, I get it! In the US, food equals love, rather than just nutrition.
What makes you think I'm in the US? And you've not fed your kids dinner, when they're hungry, because you figure they've had enough fr the day? for real?
If they have had enough, they won't be hungry. They may want to eat a lot out of habit or because they like the taste of the food being served, but they should not actually be hungry.
Even if the kids are a bit hungry at bedtime once in a while, that isn't a bad thing either. IMO Just yesterday my middle son was procrastianting snacking in the evening. Bedtime rolled around and he hadnt eaten for about 5 hours. He went to bed anyways because it was time to go to bed. He may have been hungry but he can eat in the morning. He's 12.
Or they pull the "I'm not hungry" at dinner, but then want chips/cookies a half hour later. Yeah, not happening.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think that just like any math concept, it should be included in the curriculum at the appropriate age.
And like every other concept in mathematics, there's a reason that we start kids out with counting and arithmetic rather than algebra, discrete mathematics or calculus.
Adding and subtracting four digit numbers is something my school taught in third grade. When I was 8. No reason those four digit numbers couldn't be calories.
Right, but the concept of CICO is much more like an algebraic equation (or sets of equations) than simple addition/subtraction. In fact, I'd say - for growing kids - it's more like a differential equation.
There are quite a few (some unknown) variables in the CICO model - algebra. Additionally, as the kids grow, those variables change based on their individual rates of growth, among other things - DiffEQs. While we can teach kids what Calories are, and about energy balance, I'm doubtful that kids of the age in question are going to be able to successfully apply these concepts until they understand more and are able to identify most of the variables.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »fitbritt__ wrote: »highly inappropriate. teaching and encouraging healthy eating habits is extremely important, especially childhood obesity rates being what they are. however, there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting. that's not even as NECESSARY as really teaching what good food choices look like, and how to include those in every day life.
You do know this entire site, and it's mobile app is centered around calorie counting, right?
And the terms of service prohibit minors from using the site. So...
... and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
That's what I was getting at. The poster suggested that the teacher shouldn't be focusing on calorie counting with the children, and you said (paraphrasing) "but this is a calorie counting website." My point is that children aren't supposed to be using this site, so how is that relevant to the discussion?
Well, I was mainly replying to this line...
"there are other ways to go about this than pushing calorie counting"
Calorie counting is the one sure-fire way to ensure you maintain a healthy weight. Obviously, kids not learning about calorie counting is working really well to ensure we have an obesity epidemic.
I think it's important for kids to learn about energy balance, that being at a healthy weight is about an equation: calories in and calories out (CICO). I think it would be important to teach kids things like the CO side includes the calories you burn just being alive, as well as being active, as well as exercising for fitness. We have a lot of adults who come here who don't even have that basic understanding. I think you should teach kids that when that equation is unbalanced one way or the other, it has an impact on your weight. Again, lots of adults who come here don't understand that it's really about a mathematical energy balance equation.
Then I think it's really important to teach kids about nutrition, both macro and micro nutrients, and moderation. Depending on the age, I don't think you need to stress counting calories for children; and given that this was in an elementary school, I don't think that needs to come up as more than a passing reference.
So, why do you think many adults come here, lacking understanding about it all just being an energy balance?
Could it be, perhaps, calorie counting only gets a passing reference today, in school? School is where this stuff SHOULD be taught.
I think that just like any math concept, it should be included in the curriculum at the appropriate age. Elementary school kids, don't need to get into counting calories just like they wouldn't be doing trig and calculus. Talking about nutrition IS the most important thing for elementary school aged kids. As they get older, then the calorie concept can become a larger focus, even getting into calorie counting - maybe calculating the differences between calorie content of different macronutrients and how that would contribute to a day. I've heard of high school classes where the kids design meal plans and calculate the calories and nutrition for a day or week or even a month, for different individuals. I think that's a great lesson, at that age.
I think the reason so many people come here not understanding CICO is that the fundamental energy balance isn't taught. That doesn't even have to get into counting calories. I'm a proponent for counting calories, obviously, but I know that there are other ways to be successful at managing the weight without counting and logging. But whether you count cals or not, CICO still applies and THAT is the message that I think is failing to be taught to individuals of many ages...
You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »
You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...
The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.
6 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think that just like any math concept, it should be included in the curriculum at the appropriate age.
And like every other concept in mathematics, there's a reason that we start kids out with counting and arithmetic rather than algebra, discrete mathematics or calculus.
Adding and subtracting four digit numbers is something my school taught in third grade. When I was 8. No reason those four digit numbers couldn't be calories.
Right, but the concept of CICO is much more like an algebraic equation (or sets of equations) than simple addition/subtraction. In fact, I'd say - for growing kids - it's more like a differential equation.
There are quite a few (some unknown) variables in the CICO model - algebra. Additionally, as the kids grow, those variables change based on their individual rates of growth, among other things - DiffEQs. While we can teach kids what Calories are, and about energy balance, I'm doubtful that kids of the age in question are going to be able to successfully apply these concepts until they understand more and are able to identify most of the variables.
And unless you're putting your future Olympic athlete kid through some pretty serious testing to determine their exact BMR and caloric expenditure at particular levels of exercise activity to maximize their performance, or conducting a NASA study on the effect of laying down for six months without a measurable change in weight, the algebra and differential equations that you're talking about are completely irrelevant overkill.
There are guidelines, based on age, for the appropriate number of calories for kids to consume on a daily basis. Those guidelines are applicable to all but the very ends of the bell curve of people, and let's face it, if a kid really is at the extreme end they probably have some kind of medical supervision because they're either immobile or a prodigious athlete.
It is not that hard to start them out by learning what that guideline is each year of school (as it corresponds to their age) and how much of those calories are taken up by a chocolate bar, or a potato, or a chicken drumstick. Using extremes to try to invalidate a reasonable approach to nutrition is not helpful.1 -
coreyreichle wrote: »
You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...
The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.
Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.2 -
Maybe the approach of waiting until high school isn't so sound considering that there has been a rise in the prevalence type 2 diabetes in children.
It's kind of like waiting to teach sex ed until they're already teenage parents.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »
You do understand that caloric intake is the foundation upon which nutrition lies, right? Maco and micro ratios are ratios dependent on the whole caloric total. Hard to figure those out, if you don't know what you're taking in...
The bigger question is, do you understand age appropriateness when it comes to calorie counting and nutrition? 11 year olds are too young to be counting calories. They are NOT too young to learn about what makes a high calorie or low calorie food and what makes up good nutrition and a balanced diet. They are at the age where they are beginning to learn about fat, protein, and carbohydrates. Pushing them to actually COUNT the macros and calories is not something they are ready for. High School kids, sure. Elementary and Middle School kids, no.
Exactly. They don't need to learn to do the math yet, they need to learn that there is an important concept coming down the road. It's laying a foundation so that when they are age appropriate, they can learn to count calories, or not even count them - just that calories are what drive the overall energy balance equation.
And at that age I'd much rather they were taught what are often foods and what are sometimes foods. It's a great basis to get them started on thinking about what they eat. That's really all a 10 year old needs to know.
It is also important for parents to implement those things at home, again without focusing on being caught up in the calorie content of food. I'd be horrified to see a kid checking food labels for calories and getting hyper-focused on that. And that is a very real risk.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Maybe the approach of waiting until high school isn't so sound considering that there has been a rise in the prevalence type 2 diabetes in children.
It's kind of like waiting to teach sex ed until they're already teenage parents.
A discussion of nutrition and calories and all that could reasonably happen in elementary school and probably does. I teach an after school class for middle-schoolers (they are in a grade school here and then go to high school), and they actually know quite a lot about nutrition/calories, as it came up unprovoked because of a different discussion. Also, none of these particular kids are overweight. I suspect that has more to do with their families than what they know from school (kids are taught about history and gov't too, but plenty of people don't seem to retain anything), but these particular kids are pretty smart and have education-minded families. Anyway, point is that from that and other things I know about local schools, there are quite often elementary level nutrition classes.
That's different from a teacher who is NOT teaching such a class talking about how she thinks they should count calories and skip meals if they eat too much. For most kids probably no harm, but it could be harmful, and is not the same thing as a nutrition class that discusses how good nutrition includes figuring out how many calories you should be eating and how to create a day that achieves that. (And for kids I would not be suggesting that you overeat early and then skip dinner. The nuts thing is still weird as it's easy to have a more balanced meal for similar calories.)1 -
How many commenting here are teachers? *raises hand
How many have taught Middle School? * raises hand
Middle school kids are already squirrely and body conscious because of the hormones. They are all worried about who is (or isn't) getting breasts or underarm hair or deeper voices. They do NOT need the added pressure of counting calories and macros on top of everything else going on. That is totally inappropriate for that age group. A generalized healthy eating and healthy living approach is.
As for the rising obesity rates, that is squarely on the adults in the kids life. By middle school they already have observed years of adult behavior and if the adults in their lives eat in an unhealthy manner, the kids will too. It is not the teacher's job to correct bad habits learned at home.12
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