RUNNERS!! Q&A

SierraFatToSkinny

I'm starting this thread because I have several questions I want to ask, but not enough guts to start a new thread for every question.

Others are welcome to join in and use this thread for the same purpose.



I'm going to start this thread off with a question about jumping ahead in my C25K program.

I have 4 or 5 sessions left and I plan to continue on with a 10K program.

I want to run longer right now... I've already started doing this on my running days as it is. I've been thinking about just skipping the last week and a half of the program and officially starting the 10K program since I feel able to do so.

I would go ahead and do so... except for this superstitious feeling that maybe the program knows all and I'll somehow screw up my progress.

What say you guys? Just go ahead? Or I better not?

zdyb23456

I have a weird thing about not finishing things I've started, so I would finish the 5k plan then start the 10k plan.

kxbrown27

If you can run a 5K right now I see no problem with jumping into the 10K program. The 10K one I used (from Active) is really good. Try not to jump too far ahead though, the recovery weeks and speed interval workouts should really be done as they have them laid out.

SierraFatToSkinny

zdyb23456 wrote: »

I have a weird thing about not finishing things I've started, so I would finish the 5k plan then start the 10k plan.

Yeah... to me the 5k program is just a tool to get to a larger goal of being a runner.

kxbrown27 wrote: »

If you can run a 5K right now I see no problem with jumping into the 10K program. The 10K one I used (from Active) is really good. Try not to jump too far ahead though, the recovery weeks and speed interval workouts should really be done as they have them laid out.

I can't do the distance in the time allotted in the program. I'm running slowly to acclimate myself.

But at the end of the session I often continue on. I feel like the time is too short.

Philtex

SierraFatToSkinny wrote: »

maybe the program knows all

It does.

MelanieCN77

4-5 runs is only 10-14 days, I say finish it out and then move on. Consider repeating the last few runs a few times, even.

RuNaRoUnDaFiEld

I say stick to the programme. The step back weeks are there to allow your tendons and muscles time to acclimatise.

I love this thread idea

MeanderingMammal

SierraFatToSkinny wrote: »

I have 4 or 5 sessions left

So just over a week?

...maybe the program knows all...

It's a question of risk essentially. Your CV fitness improves quickly, your physical readiness for longer distance running takes longer.

As an experienced runner I'm used to recognising the indicators that mean I need to back off from training, or that I can do somewhat more.

You're essentially making the assumption that you can significantly increase your training load quickly without injuring yourself. A lot of that depends on what 10K plan you're using.

fwiw the 10K plan I used had 70 minutes of training, jumping from 35 minutes in the C25K plan.

jennypapage

why are you in a hurry? you have the rest of your life to run longer distances. think of what will happen if you get an injury because you skipped ahead. could be weeks or months that you will have to spend recovering. is it worth it? If i were in your shoes (in which i was not that long ago) i'd continue with the program as is.

dewd2

Stick with the plan. If you do too much too soon, you will pay for it. The problem is you won't know the damage you are doing until it is too late. All the sudden you will get up from the couch and find your (fill in body part here) hurts and you don't know why.

Your body takes a very long time to adjust to running. Your heart and lungs will be far ahead of your muscles and tendons.

Good luck.

Vladimirnapkin

Do what seems like it would be the most fun. We're not getting paid for this.

Hoshiko

I actually did this when I was a beginner runner years ago. I ended up with really bad shin splints and had to take a couple of weeks off because I skipped ahead too much. No big deal in the long run, but it did discourage me. In the beginning those distance PRs are SO motivating, and it does get addictive to push yourself and see how much further you can go.

If it were me I'd jump to the 10k program, but start at the equivalent week before. On my zenlabs 10k trainer that's week 7, which has ~25 min runs. The next week has you completing a 5k, so that would give you 6 runs before hitting that 5k goal.

Just a side note, Hal Higdon has some great training plans online for free that bridge the gap from couch apps to race training. Years ago I successfully went from CT5K > HH Spring Training> Beginner Half Marathon Training > Marathon training. No injuries, great experience, slow build-up. So once you hit that 5k it may also be time to look around and see what other training plans are out there to build your base!

pondee629

"I have 4 or 5 sessions left and I plan to continue on with a 10K program.

I want to run longer right now... I've already started doing this on my running days as it is. I've been thinking about just skipping the last week and a half of the program and officially starting the 10K program since I feel able to do so."

OK. You have 4-5 sessions left on C25K. Less than two weeks. If I remember right, these sessions have the longer runs in the program. You want to run longer and get started on a 10K training program. Why not just do the longer runs in the 5 K program, and transition into the 10K program using each program as it was designed? You'll get in the longer 5K program runs and lessen your risk of injury buy not progressing too fast. Patience, Grasshopper, progress may be slow but it is progress. An injury stops you cold. Plus, you'll have the sense of achievement by finishing the C25K program.

JeepHair77

I'll go against the grain - the program does NOT know all, and it's designed to get someone on the below-average side up to a 5K. If you can do more, you can do more. Listen to your body - don't try to run too far or too fast, because sure, that would make you more prone to injury. I like that you're running slow, and I would keep doing that - don't try to work on distance AND speed, KWIM? But you don't have to slog along on a program that isn't challenging you, just because that's the program.

MobyCarp

SierraFatToSkinny wrote: »

I'm going to start this thread off with a question about jumping ahead in my C25K program.

I have 4 or 5 sessions left and I plan to continue on with a 10K program.

I want to run longer right now... I've already started doing this on my running days as it is. I've been thinking about just skipping the last week and a half of the program and officially starting the 10K program since I feel able to do so.

I would go ahead and do so... except for this superstitious feeling that maybe the program knows all and I'll somehow screw up my progress.

What say you guys? Just go ahead? Or I better not?

@SierraFatToSkinny - The program doesn't know all. It makes some assumptions about the people who will be using the program. In making the kind of decision you're contemplating, it's helpful to understand what assumptions are made and why they are there.

A typical couch to 5K program assumes no prior running experience, and is designed to take someone from being able to walk 1 to 3 miles, to being able to run 30 minutes or so. It is typically structured as walk-run intervals to start, with the intervals becoming more challenging until at some point it converts to continual runs. Three days a week is typical, with a stress on the fact that they shouldn't be consecutive days. All of this should sound very familiar. But why is it this way?

The reason it's structured that way is that progress is not made when you work hard. Progress is made when you recover well after working hard. The beginner is told not to run on consecutive days because the intervening non-running days are needed for the running chain to recover, repair the small damage done by running, and rebuild itself to be better and stronger. The intervals seem like less than you can do because they are. Running as hard or as far as you can is not a good development strategy; it tends to make you need so much recovery time that you don't make progress. Yes, these are general statements. Yes, there are situations (particularly for more advanced runners) where parts of this does not apply. But the general rule still holds true most of the time.

It is very easy for a beginner runner, and even a runner with some experience, to run himself or herself into injury. The way to avoid this is not to work too hard. A very experienced distance runner will know by feel when it's too hard, and back off. A beginner will feel the same things, but not know what they mean. So the program gives a quantified answer to the question, "How much is enough?" Absent the program, there is no bell chiming approval when you run enough. There is only pain when you run too much.

How do experienced runners learn to recognize how much is enough? I don't know about everyone, but most of them that I know (including myself) learn by making mistakes. It can help to have a coach who has seen many runners telling me to back off; that doesn't eliminate my mistakes, it just makes them smaller and accelerates the learning curve. But the typical beginner won't have a human coach watching him or her. The beginner will only have the canned program.

This is a long winded way of saying, I think you should finish the program as stated. Maybe go to some unstructured running 3 or 4 days a week for a few weeks to see what feels good. Probably run an actual 5K race, to experience how the race environment is different from training runs. Then perhaps get a 10K program, if you still feel you need one. I used a canned 5K program to get to my first 5K, then just ran 4 days a week with gradually increasing distance to get to my first 10K. But I was still capable of running myself into injury, and I proved it by doing so on the way to my first half, twice. I ended up needing a formal training program to get to the half marathon distance.

SierraFatToSkinny wrote: »

I can't do the distance in the time allotted in the program. I'm running slowly to acclimate myself.

But at the end of the session I often continue on. I feel like the time is too short.

This may be an indication that the program is not structured well for your particular needs. If it specifies time and distance, and you can't run the distance in the allotted time, a different program would be indicated. Pick one the specifies time or one that specifies distance, but not one that effectively specifies pace. Easy pace, threshold pace, and so on vary from one runner to another. You can mess yourself up bad training to someone else's paces when you should be training to your own.

7lenny7

dewd2 wrote: »

Stick with the plan. If you do too much too soon, you will pay for it. The problem is you won't know the damage you are doing until it is too late. All the sudden you will get up from the couch and find your (fill in body part here) hurts and you don't know why.

Your body takes a very long time to adjust to running. Your heart and lungs will be far ahead of your muscles and tendons.

Good luck.

@dewd2 nails it with this comment. You'll feel you can jump ahead because your heart & lungs feel are able to handle the increase in miles and it's exciting to feel this way, but you need to allow your muscles & tendons (and bones!) time to build up so they can handles it without injury as well.

When your heart & lungs get pushed to the limit, you get tired and slow down. When your muscles, tendons and bones get pushed to the limit, thinks can break, snap, tear, or get inflamed and take you out of running completely for a time.

I heard this advice when I started running and I wish I had paid more attention.

GaryRuns

SierraFatToSkinny wrote: »

Yeah... to me the 5k program is just a tool to get to a larger goal of being a runner.

You're already a "runner" so goal accomplished!

As long as you're not increasing your mileage more than 10%/week then I say go for it!