When and where to add to routine
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Okohme
Posts: 152 Member
I am fairly new to getting (back) into shape but have a good thing going on. I ran a 5k, and just this Sunday ran a 10k. I want to improve my speed so I am planning to start adding in speed work. The trouble is I am not really sure when I should do it.
My current workout routine is:
Monday: Shoulder, back, and core day.
Tuesday: Run 4mi
Wednesday: Leg day
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Arm day
Saturday: Run 4mi
Sunday: Run 7 mi
With few exceptions, I also get at least 10,000 steps a day. I will soon be trying to do walks with my son (pushing stroller) again once its warm and not raining all day.
At some point I want to up my mileage, but given my present time constraints I am looking just to add in speed work at first. My first thought, obviously, would be to do speedwork Thursday, but that is currently my only rest day.
My current workout routine is:
Monday: Shoulder, back, and core day.
Tuesday: Run 4mi
Wednesday: Leg day
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Arm day
Saturday: Run 4mi
Sunday: Run 7 mi
With few exceptions, I also get at least 10,000 steps a day. I will soon be trying to do walks with my son (pushing stroller) again once its warm and not raining all day.
At some point I want to up my mileage, but given my present time constraints I am looking just to add in speed work at first. My first thought, obviously, would be to do speedwork Thursday, but that is currently my only rest day.
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Replies
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Three runs, totalling 15 miles per week is a bit light.
Personally I'd recommend adding a run day, but if you're sticking with three then one easy, one long and one speed will potentially help.
I'd suggest using your Tuesday as your speed day, although that may impact your leg session. I'd avoid the Thursday for speed as you're in limited recovery before your Saturday easy paced.
For a speed session id go for a 10-15 minutes warm up at your easy pace, followed by either 3-4 miles of tempo pace or an interval set, then 10-15 minute cool down. Intervals when you're new to speed would be say 8 of 200 metres with minute rest periods at your easy pace.
What I'd do for a 10 K at the moment is:
Monday - rest
Tuesday - speed session up to 12K
Wednesday - easy recovery to 10K
Thursday - X training
Friday - X training
Saturday - Easy paced up to 12K
Sunday - Long up to 18K1 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »Three runs, totalling 15 miles per week is a bit light.
Personally I'd recommend adding a run day, but if you're sticking with three then one easy, one long and one speed will potentially help.
I'd suggest using your Tuesday as your speed day, although that may impact your leg session. I'd avoid the Thursday for speed as you're in limited recovery before your Saturday easy paced.
For a speed session id go for a 10-15 minutes warm up at your easy pace, followed by either 3-4 miles of tempo pace or an interval set, then 10-15 minute cool down. Intervals when you're new to speed would be say 8 of 200 metres with minute rest periods at your easy pace.
What I'd do for a 10 K at the moment is:
Monday - rest
Tuesday - speed session up to 12K
Wednesday - easy recovery to 10K
Thursday - X training
Friday - X training
Saturday - Easy paced up to 12K
Sunday - Long up to 18K
Well, its based on the time I have to do it, but also the training plan I used to get to the 10k.
I could switch leg day to Friday or Monday, but then Leg day would follow my long run, or proceed two consecutive runs. Honestly I have no clue which would be preferable.
I found about a million recommendations for speedwork, and I don't know which seems best, but I planned to start by doing some hill sprints.0 -
Honestly I'd love to do some more running, but fitting it in is problematic, and when to do it with my other workouts is a challenge too. One of the main seasonsI want to do some speedwork, is so that I can get more miles in during the time I do have to run. I'm, uh, not fast.0
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Hillwork has a place, but it can lack a degree of control. Climbing is good for glute and core but descending can increase risk around shock loading and spine.
I'd generally suggest a track or flat surface as giving more control.
You've got three main types of speed session; tempo, cruise intervals or interval. Each has a different benefit, and the mix depends on your objectives.
Personally I'm in marathon and Ultra training at the moment so do minimal speedwork.1 -
The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.0 -
The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.
I don't think you are going to get the results you want from speedwork with mileage that's already fairly low. More mileage helps with speed as much as actual speed work does. Also, you don't need to bury yourself on the speed days. With speed, more is not always better
I would change a lot
Monday: Full body strength
Tuesday: Speed
Wednesday: Easy 4
Thursday: Full body Strength
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Run 4mi
Sunday: Run 7 mi
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The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.
I don't think you are going to get the results you want from speedwork with mileage that's already fairly low. More mileage helps with speed as much as actual speed work does. Also, you don't need to bury yourself on the speed days. With speed, more is not always better
I would change a lot
Monday: Full body strength
Tuesday: Speed
Wednesday: Easy 4
Thursday: Full body Strength
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Run 4mi
Sunday: Run 7 mi
Full body strength is what? All of the things that I do over the course of a week?
I guess I was looking to speedwork for some results as to this point my increased miles have not seemed to increase my speed, but then I don't have a very good test for that.0 -
The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.
I don't think you are going to get the results you want from speedwork with mileage that's already fairly low. More mileage helps with speed as much as actual speed work does. Also, you don't need to bury yourself on the speed days. With speed, more is not always better
I would change a lot
Monday: Full body strength
Tuesday: Speed
Wednesday: Easy 4
Thursday: Full body Strength
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Run 4mi
Sunday: Run 7 mi
Full body strength is what? All of the things that I do over the course of a week?
I guess I was looking to speedwork for some results as to this point my increased miles have not seemed to increase my speed, but then I don't have a very good test for that.
Yes, do 2 full body strength sessions. You won't be able to do "all" the exercises in your current splits with your time limitations. The point is, if your priority is running, then make that your priority even if it means you have to cut back a bit on the x-training. We all have to make choices. It's ok.0 -
I would recommend trying to change up your weight training. Superset everything with minimal rest to improve your endurance and recovery. Have you ever tried Tabata training? I do Tabata training 4 days a week and run twice a week. Really shock your muscles and never do the same workout twice in a week. Set a specific goal you want to achieve and record everything. My goal is 5 mile run with sub 8 minute mile pace. I'm going to be 39 this year not old but not spring chicken either. In 90 days I shed 20 pounds and have dropped almost a minute off per mile.0
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The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.
So there are a few issues coming out of this. If you take a look at Matt Fitzgerald, he talks a lot about doing about 80% of your running at your easy pace, with only 20% speedwork. Your recent 10K was a decent effort at a 10 min/ mile, and that's a bit slower than my easy pace, a 9:30 min/ mile. So whilst your easy pace will improve a little with speedwork, it's not going to give you significantly more distance in the time available.
For speedwork, don't skimp the warm up. And for what you're talking about I'd veer towards cruise intervals or tempo rather than sprint intervals. Sprint intervals help your oxygen uptake to improve, but what you're talking about is sustained speed. So that would be a speed portion of running at, or faster than, your race pace. So after a warm up say three speed intervals of one km each with a 400m at easy pace between them. These sessions help improve your lactate threshold, essentially the pace that you can sustain for about an hour.
I still think your mileage is low for this. I wouldn't do a speed session of less than 6 miles, as it needs over a mile to warm up and cool down. For a 10K improvement plan I'd be designing for 20 miles per week as entry increasing to 30mpw in peak load, for a Half plan I'd be aiming at 25-30mpw as entry.
As far as weight training is concerned, I'd take the advice from Rybo. A full body session is both time efficient and more likely to give you the core stability benefits that will help your running. The main thing is to identify what's important to you and structure your planning around that.1 -
The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.
I don't think you are going to get the results you want from speedwork with mileage that's already fairly low. More mileage helps with speed as much as actual speed work does. Also, you don't need to bury yourself on the speed days. With speed, more is not always better
I would change a lot
Monday: Full body strength
Tuesday: Speed
Wednesday: Easy 4
Thursday: Full body Strength
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Run 4mi
Sunday: Run 7 mi
Full body strength is what? All of the things that I do over the course of a week?
I guess I was looking to speedwork for some results as to this point my increased miles have not seemed to increase my speed, but then I don't have a very good test for that.
Sort of but not really. You'll cover all muscle groups, but use less exercises. OHP, Squats, Deadlift (or some hinge movement), bench or pushups, rows/pullups and lunges.0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.
So there are a few issues coming out of this. If you take a look at Matt Fitzgerald, he talks a lot about doing about 80% of your running at your easy pace, with only 20% speedwork. Your recent 10K was a decent effort at a 10 min/ mile, and that's a bit slower than my easy pace, a 9:30 min/ mile. So whilst your easy pace will improve a little with speedwork, it's not going to give you significantly more distance in the time available.
For speedwork, don't skimp the warm up. And for what you're talking about I'd veer towards cruise intervals or tempo rather than sprint intervals. Sprint intervals help your oxygen uptake to improve, but what you're talking about is sustained speed. So that would be a speed portion of running at, or faster than, your race pace. So after a warm up say three speed intervals of one km each with a 400m at easy pace between them. These sessions help improve your lactate threshold, essentially the pace that you can sustain for about an hour.
I still think your mileage is low for this. I wouldn't do a speed session of less than 6 miles, as it needs over a mile to warm up and cool down. For a 10K improvement plan I'd be designing for 20 miles per week as entry increasing to 30mpw in peak load, for a Half plan I'd be aiming at 25-30mpw as entry.
As far as weight training is concerned, I'd take the advice from Rybo. A full body session is both time efficient and more likely to give you the core stability benefits that will help your running. The main thing is to identify what's important to you and structure your planning around that.
I'm gonna do some reading on the cruise intervals and tempo stuff, and see if I can figure out how to incorporate that into my plan. Why over a mile for warm-up and cool down? I know I need to increase my miles, I am presently attempting to determine how to do so. I could add in a few more (say, another run of 3-4 miles) without too much trouble, if I did them with the stroller. While I do have some strength goals, most of my goals are running related, so I suppose I need to take stock of my training regimen and prioritize.
When you do your training runs, do you map stuff out in advance or use an app to tell you when you've gone X distance and its time to switch back to easy or faster pace?The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.
I don't think you are going to get the results you want from speedwork with mileage that's already fairly low. More mileage helps with speed as much as actual speed work does. Also, you don't need to bury yourself on the speed days. With speed, more is not always better
I would change a lot
Monday: Full body strength
Tuesday: Speed
Wednesday: Easy 4
Thursday: Full body Strength
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Run 4mi
Sunday: Run 7 mi
Full body strength is what? All of the things that I do over the course of a week?
I guess I was looking to speedwork for some results as to this point my increased miles have not seemed to increase my speed, but then I don't have a very good test for that.
Sort of but not really. You'll cover all muscle groups, but use less exercises. OHP, Squats, Deadlift (or some hinge movement), bench or pushups, rows/pullups and lunges.
LMAO Okay. I'm actually still building the requisite core strength to be able to do push ups or pullups. My starting place for fitness is, uh, not great.0 -
The hill work I was looking at was saying to sprint uphill for 100m, then walk back down the hill, then sprint back up, and do that 12-24 times.
I will do some more reading regarding the speed sessions you suggested.
I have a couple of speed goals I would like to hit before moving on to some more of my distance goals, but I am also limited in the time I have for training (I'm working on that.) and my current hope is that if I able to go faster I can run more moles in the time I have available and can also increase my miles.
I don't think you are going to get the results you want from speedwork with mileage that's already fairly low. More mileage helps with speed as much as actual speed work does. Also, you don't need to bury yourself on the speed days. With speed, more is not always better
I would change a lot
Monday: Full body strength
Tuesday: Speed
Wednesday: Easy 4
Thursday: Full body Strength
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Run 4mi
Sunday: Run 7 mi
Full body strength is what? All of the things that I do over the course of a week?
I guess I was looking to speedwork for some results as to this point my increased miles have not seemed to increase my speed, but then I don't have a very good test for that.
Yes, do 2 full body strength sessions. You won't be able to do "all" the exercises in your current splits with your time limitations. The point is, if your priority is running, then make that your priority even if it means you have to cut back a bit on the x-training. We all have to make choices. It's ok.
Hmmm.. I mean, yeah, I guess the running is my priority. Its just that the weight traiing is sort of easier because I can do it at home while I'm watching the kiddo.... but ya'll make a good point. Can't do all of the things in the time alloted.0 -
gearhead426hemi wrote: »I would recommend trying to change up your weight training. Superset everything with minimal rest to improve your endurance and recovery. Have you ever tried Tabata training? I do Tabata training 4 days a week and run twice a week. Really shock your muscles and never do the same workout twice in a week. Set a specific goal you want to achieve and record everything. My goal is 5 mile run with sub 8 minute mile pace. I'm going to be 39 this year not old but not spring chicken either. In 90 days I shed 20 pounds and have dropped almost a minute off per mile.
I'll do some reading on Tabata. Sub 8:00/. Man, that sounds SOOOOO fast, to me. I did a 5k in 30:06 and that was like lightning for my stubby little legs. I'm the PokeyLittlePuppy but I'm still waaay faster than I was, so I guess there's that.0 -
Why over a mile for warm-up and cool down?
If you're doing sprint intervals, or tempo work, you need to give your system time to build up to that. Your muscles and connective tissues need to warm up and stretch, so that the explosive forces of acceleration and deceleration don't cause damage.When you do your training runs, do you map stuff out in advance or use an app to tell you when you've gone X distance and its time to switch back to easy or faster pace?
I've got them loaded into my Garmin based on what I'm wanting to do. That alerts me based on time, distances or HR. You could use Endomondo or Runkeeper to do similar.
I also have some known routes that I'll use for a 10K session, 16K (10mi) session, 21.1K, 25K, 32K. They're generally all for easy pace sessions, rather than speedwork, although I wil use the 21.1K as a time trial depending on where I am in my training.
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »Why over a mile for warm-up and cool down?
If you're doing sprint intervals, or tempo work, you need to give your system time to build up to that. Your muscles and connective tissues need to warm up and stretch, so that the explosive forces of acceleration and deceleration don't cause damage.When you do your training runs, do you map stuff out in advance or use an app to tell you when you've gone X distance and its time to switch back to easy or faster pace?
I've got them loaded into my Garmin based on what I'm wanting to do. That alerts me based on time, distances or HR. You could use Endomondo or Runkeeper to do similar.
I also have some known routes that I'll use for a 10K session, 16K (10mi) session, 21.1K, 25K, 32K. They're generally all for easy pace sessions, rather than speedwork, although I wil use the 21.1K as a time trial depending on where I am in my training.
My Fitbit is supposed to do some of that but I honestly haven't investigated how to do so just yet. Guess that's my next step.0
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