Weight fluctuation in day
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If you're a stats and numbers geek, I'd think that you would want to eliminate as many variables as possible to get the best data you can get from a process which is inherently inaccurate in the first place. Recording your weight "whenever you feel like it" introduces a lot of unnecessary noise into the equation and skews the trends.Silentpadna wrote: »Why is there a "best time" to weigh yourself? It struck me just now that people are trying to avoid the time when fluids are higher. Fluids are a fact of life right? It's going to be there to varying degrees all day long every day. If you're looking for long-term fat loss (which is really the only way to tell if you are losing fat), the trend is all that matters. STEVE142142 above has it right.
Fluid retention doesn't just go up and down by the day, it goes up and down during the day. Folks that are looking to weigh in the morning after going to the bathroom and before eating I'm guessing are looking for the lowest number possible. In my case, the lower number possible is usually after my afternoon workout where I've sweated out a bunch of fluid. I record my weight whenever I feel like it and watch the trend. (And I'm a bit of a stats and numbers geek, so I enjoy observing the process).
All I care about is losing fat - I want my body to do what it does with fluids. If my trend is good and my CICO is on target, I don't worry about the scale day to day...at all.
If I weigh first thing in the morning, naked, after going to the bathroom one day, then weigh mid-afternoon the next day with clothes on after eating breakfast and lunch and drinking fluids all morning/afternoon, what validity is there to comparing the data? I might as well just toss the scale, put up a dart board and throw darts at it for my weight numbers and chart my trend from there.
The reason many consider first thing in the morning the "best time to weigh yourself" is because you can eliminate the most variables by doing it then. The human body is still subject to fluctuations for several different reasons, but at least you've controlled as many variables as you can. Identical scale, identical place, identical clothing (or lack thereof), hydration/feeding status as identical as possible - it's a lot more controlled than randomly stepping on the scale whenever the mood strikes you during the day.
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The best time is not all the time, until you have a handle on your mindset. Seeing scales go up and down is depressing when you first start. It was for me anyway and I track using happy scales so I have a trending weight loss I can look at. So now I understand a little more about fluctuating weight I just roll my eyes when the scale goes up, knowing it won't be long until it's down again1
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I tend to weigh myself first thing in the morning.
But if you want more data about yourself, feel free to just weigh yourself every so often during the day to see where you are.0 -
It happens as everyone has said.
Don't worry about it unless its more than 1-3%.0 -
If you're a stats and numbers geek, I'd think that you would want to eliminate as many variables as possible to get the best data you can get from a process which is inherently inaccurate in the first place. Recording your weight "whenever you feel like it" introduces a lot of unnecessary noise into the equation and skews the trends.
If I weigh first thing in the morning, naked, after going to the bathroom one day, then weigh mid-afternoon the next day with clothes on after eating breakfast and lunch and drinking fluids all morning/afternoon, what validity is there to comparing the data? I might as well just toss the scale, put up a dart board and throw darts at it for my weight numbers and chart my trend from there.
The reason many consider first thing in the morning the "best time to weigh yourself" is because you can eliminate the most variables by doing it then. The human body is still subject to fluctuations for several different reasons, but at least you've controlled as many variables as you can. Identical scale, identical place, identical clothing (or lack thereof), hydration/feeding status as identical as possible - it's a lot more controlled than randomly stepping on the scale whenever the mood strikes you during the day.
I understand this line of reasoning as well. As a numbers geek, I am interested in the fluctuation and (but mostly) the trend. I get the idea of consistent, controlled data, however what control do you really have?
I would argue that the trends are not being skewed by when you take the data, but shortness of the time window you use. I think when you have fluids vary in a day 2-3 times as much as the magnitude of fat loss you can expect in a week (if you're aggressive, even more if you are not as aggressive), means that any time you weigh yourself more than, say once a month (if not longer), you'll get "noise".
What I mean by saying there is not really a "best time", is that I don't think consistency in day-to-day data buys you anything meaningful. In fact, because of the fluid v. fat rates, I don't think it's wise to make any major decisions or changes without observing for enough time to see a trend. A week or two is not nearly enough time establish a trend. A month might not be even long enough.
In my own example, it appears that my CICO is resulting in a 2 lb / week steady rate. But I've only been at this for about 8 weeks. It's probably getting close enough to a long enough timeline to confirm my CICO works. My measurements day to day mean almost nothing by themselves - and probably nothing within the context of a week. Taking data at any time in the day, for me, is simply a way to watch how the body works.
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Christine_72 wrote: »
Because weighing in the morning before eating and drinking anything is about as accurate as you're going to get. Why would i weigh myself at night when there's a full day's worth of food and fluids sitting in my gut, which will give me a skewed and rather depressing number.
I put on a pound after drinking 2 cups of tea, I dread to think what a fulls day of eating and drinking would do to the scale number.
Why is your weighing time in the morning any more accurate than the evening over the long run?
That said, I do understand the idea of avoiding the "depressing number", and the idea that positive feedback matters. I think all of us on this weight fat loss journey would do well to remember that the scale is a tool, but it doesn't can't measure fat loss in the short term.
I got on this shtick in many threads because I see a lot of folks making decisions based on their feelings rather than facts. And I understand it's hard when the scale is, for most of us, the only tool we really have. It's hard to trust the process over the long term when most of us, me included, want quick results. For me, I have to continually choose to trust the process that we have seen proven time after time. Be as accurate with measuring input and output as you can and refine the process over the long term.
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Its perfectly normal, even in maintenance I fluctuate up 1.5 to 3lbs in any given day- I step on the scales each morning.
Pick one time of the day to weigh in and stick to that.0 -
Silentpadna wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »
Because weighing in the morning before eating and drinking anything is about as accurate as you're going to get. Why would i weigh myself at night when there's a full day's worth of food and fluids sitting in my gut, which will give me a skewed and rather depressing number.
I put on a pound after drinking 2 cups of tea, I dread to think what a fulls day of eating and drinking would do to the scale number.
Why is your weighing time in the morning any more accurate than the evening over the long run?
That said, I do understand the idea of avoiding the "depressing number", and the idea that positive feedback matters. I think all of us on this weight fat loss journey would do well to remember that the scale is a tool, but it doesn't can't measure fat loss in the short term.
I got on this shtick in many threads because I see a lot of folks making decisions based on their feelings rather than facts. And I understand it's hard when the scale is, for most of us, the only tool we really have. It's hard to trust the process over the long term when most of us, me included, want quick results. For me, I have to continually choose to trust the process that we have seen proven time after time. Be as accurate with measuring input and output as you can and refine the process over the long term.
Because, weighing in the evening, introduces variables like
Did I drink 3 or 5 liters of water today.
Did I have an extra bite of something with dinner.
was there extra electrolytes in the seasoning with dinner, etc
Weighing in the morning, after first BM, before first feed.
minimum of 6 hours dehydration/sleep/digestion/etc.1 -
When I eat full sodium soup, I gain 10 lbs in water weight.... Very uncomfortable
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I have been having a strange weight jump from Thurs to Fri EVERY week. It's strange because I'm not really sure why it would happen. It's usually about 2 lbs and I don't have any habits that I can think of that would cause it every single Thurs to Fri. Frustrating!0
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As others have said , i weigh myself first thing on a Friday morning after I've used the toilet and without clothes on
I don't do it any other time in the week , it works for me
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Silentpadna wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »
Because weighing in the morning before eating and drinking anything is about as accurate as you're going to get. Why would i weigh myself at night when there's a full day's worth of food and fluids sitting in my gut, which will give me a skewed and rather depressing number.
I put on a pound after drinking 2 cups of tea, I dread to think what a fulls day of eating and drinking would do to the scale number.
Why is your weighing time in the morning any more accurate than the evening over the long run?
That said, I do understand the idea of avoiding the "depressing number", and the idea that positive feedback matters. I think all of us on this weight fat loss journey would do well to remember that the scale is a tool, but it doesn't can't measure fat loss in the short term.
I got on this shtick in many threads because I see a lot of folks making decisions based on their feelings rather than facts. And I understand it's hard when the scale is, for most of us, the only tool we really have. It's hard to trust the process over the long term when most of us, me included, want quick results. For me, I have to continually choose to trust the process that we have seen proven time after time. Be as accurate with measuring input and output as you can and refine the process over the long term.
50 posts in and you think us saying to weigh at a consistent time with the fewest variables is to massages our fragile egos by seeing the lowest number possible? You don't know what you think you know.
It is often said by regulars here that psychologically, if you can deal with the fluctuating numbers, weighing daily is a great way to track trends over time (not 1 week but more like 8 weeks to see proper meaningful data) and take all the emotion out of the numbers. It is also recommended to use other metrics such as body measurements and fitness goals to track progress.
The people who come here freaking out over a week with no loss or a spike one day are always advised that one week or one weigh in is not long enough or enough data points to need to worry or start making drastic changes.
TL;DR Your point is being erroneously made and you're projecting feelings onto people that they don't have over the scale number.3 -
Jewels8225 wrote: »I have been having a strange weight jump from Thurs to Fri EVERY week. It's strange because I'm not really sure why it would happen. It's usually about 2 lbs and I don't have any habits that I can think of that would cause it every single Thurs to Fri. Frustrating!
It's called the non-linear nature of weight and just being human. Your weight isn't static.2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Because, weighing in the evening, introduces variables like
Did I drink 3 or 5 liters of water today.
Did I have an extra bite of something with dinner.
was there extra electrolytes in the seasoning with dinner, etc
Weighing in the morning, after first BM, before first feed.
minimum of 6 hours dehydration/sleep/digestion/etc.
But in the long term, do those variables mean anything? That's my point. Those variables are there all the time, whether we are trying to lose, trying to gain, or trying to maintain. Who says those seasonings aren't having an effect in the morning? What if you're not blessed in being regular on your BM? Accuracy day-to-day doesn't really matter. Long-term, those variables go away when you're trying to determine whether you've lost fat. There is no real accuracy issue when you are looking at a big enough time window to make any decisions.
I see that I am having a very hard time getting my point across - and that means it's on me, not those who are responding to my admittedly contrarian ideas here.
We can all agree that fat loss is not short-term, right? We can also agree that fluid retention can mask fat loss (or even gain) in the short-term, right? In order to see if we are achieving fat loss (assuming all we are using is a scale), we have to give enough time for the fat loss to be substantially greater than day-to-day fluctuations. If we are losing 2 pounds per week in fat and we fluctuate by up to 8 in a day (or for some people who have mentioned even more), you need probably two months to realistically see fat loss and eliminate noise. If you are weighing yourself every day, what difference does it make what time it is if you cannot see the changes anyway?
If I wanted to eliminate as much noise as possible, I would reduce the number of times I weigh myself to at least a month, probably two - and in those cases where I'm actually doing it to record progress, I would then want to make the conditions consistent (even though that's probably also not very likely). Personally I look at the scale a number of random times during the week just to look at the data, but really all it does is confirm fluctuations. Entering random weigh-ins on trending apps yields much the same results. The trend looks fine.
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VintageFeline wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »
Because weighing in the morning before eating and drinking anything is about as accurate as you're going to get. Why would i weigh myself at night when there's a full day's worth of food and fluids sitting in my gut, which will give me a skewed and rather depressing number.
I put on a pound after drinking 2 cups of tea, I dread to think what a fulls day of eating and drinking would do to the scale number.
50 posts in and you think us saying to weigh at a consistent time with the fewest variables is to massages our fragile egos by seeing the lowest number possible? You don't know what you think you know.
TL;DR Your point is being erroneously made and you're projecting feelings onto people that they don't have over the scale number.
No I'm not projecting to everyone. I was responding to the "depressing number" and "dread" in the specific quote above. There are numerous others all over these forums.
"TL;DR" - what does that mean?
As to the "50 posts in" comment, I am very appreciative of all that I am learning on these boards and acknowledge and respect the veterans here; I'm also fully aware that my point on daily weighing time might be controversial. In no way is it meant to be a personal attack on anyone or an assumption of ego. If that was the message received, I'm sorry - that was not the intent. I do like to challenge ideas from time to time. I also like to see other ideas challenged, including mine. I especially love seeing the "clean eating" folks get challenged and all the other stuff from the diet industry whose interests don't necessarily include those of us needing to get healthy actually getting healthy.
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Silentpadna wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because, weighing in the evening, introduces variables like
Did I drink 3 or 5 liters of water today.
Did I have an extra bite of something with dinner.
was there extra electrolytes in the seasoning with dinner, etc
Weighing in the morning, after first BM, before first feed.
minimum of 6 hours dehydration/sleep/digestion/etc.
But in the long term, do those variables mean anything? That's my point. Those variables are there all the time, whether we are trying to lose, trying to gain, or trying to maintain. Who says those seasonings aren't having an effect in the morning? What if you're not blessed in being regular on your BM? Accuracy day-to-day doesn't really matter. Long-term, those variables go away when you're trying to determine whether you've lost fat. There is no real accuracy issue when you are looking at a big enough time window to make any decisions.
I see that I am having a very hard time getting my point across - and that means it's on me, not those who are responding to my admittedly contrarian ideas here.
We can all agree that fat loss is not short-term, right? We can also agree that fluid retention can mask fat loss (or even gain) in the short-term, right? In order to see if we are achieving fat loss (assuming all we are using is a scale), we have to give enough time for the fat loss to be substantially greater than day-to-day fluctuations. If we are losing 2 pounds per week in fat and we fluctuate by up to 8 in a day (or for some people who have mentioned even more), you need probably two months to realistically see fat loss and eliminate noise. If you are weighing yourself every day, what difference does it make what time it is if you cannot see the changes anyway?
If I wanted to eliminate as much noise as possible, I would reduce the number of times I weigh myself to at least a month, probably two - and in those cases where I'm actually doing it to record progress, I would then want to make the conditions consistent (even though that's probably also not very likely). Personally I look at the scale a number of random times during the week just to look at the data, but really all it does is confirm fluctuations. Entering random weigh-ins on trending apps yields much the same results. The trend looks fine.
IF you weigh less often, you become more vulnerable to noise.
The more data points you gather, the smoother becomes the curve of your data.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Silentpadna wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Because, weighing in the evening, introduces variables like
Did I drink 3 or 5 liters of water today.
Did I have an extra bite of something with dinner.
was there extra electrolytes in the seasoning with dinner, etc
Weighing in the morning, after first BM, before first feed.
minimum of 6 hours dehydration/sleep/digestion/etc.
But in the long term, do those variables mean anything? That's my point. Those variables are there all the time, whether we are trying to lose, trying to gain, or trying to maintain. Who says those seasonings aren't having an effect in the morning? What if you're not blessed in being regular on your BM? Accuracy day-to-day doesn't really matter. Long-term, those variables go away when you're trying to determine whether you've lost fat. There is no real accuracy issue when you are looking at a big enough time window to make any decisions.
I see that I am having a very hard time getting my point across - and that means it's on me, not those who are responding to my admittedly contrarian ideas here.
We can all agree that fat loss is not short-term, right? We can also agree that fluid retention can mask fat loss (or even gain) in the short-term, right? In order to see if we are achieving fat loss (assuming all we are using is a scale), we have to give enough time for the fat loss to be substantially greater than day-to-day fluctuations. If we are losing 2 pounds per week in fat and we fluctuate by up to 8 in a day (or for some people who have mentioned even more), you need probably two months to realistically see fat loss and eliminate noise. If you are weighing yourself every day, what difference does it make what time it is if you cannot see the changes anyway?
If I wanted to eliminate as much noise as possible, I would reduce the number of times I weigh myself to at least a month, probably two - and in those cases where I'm actually doing it to record progress, I would then want to make the conditions consistent (even though that's probably also not very likely). Personally I look at the scale a number of random times during the week just to look at the data, but really all it does is confirm fluctuations. Entering random weigh-ins on trending apps yields much the same results. The trend looks fine.
IF you weigh less often, you become more vulnerable to noise.
The more data points you gather, the smoother becomes the curve of your data.
And, by picking consistent conditions (first thing, after peeing, before eating) you eliminate as much of the noise as possible.
It's not perfect. But nothing will be. Even a daily Dexa scan would be imperfect. It would be better but is cost prohibitive.
Besides. Weighing daily can teach you something about how food impacts. So Wed was Sashimi for lunch and that means too much soy sauce. Thursday I was up 1.6 lbs (expected more). But no bad feelings about it and 1.3 came off by this morning. I know it's going to happen because I have already seen it happen.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
IF you weigh less often, you become more vulnerable to noise.
The more data points you gather, the smoother becomes the curve of your data.
Why is that? Doesn't it depend on the window of time you are taking data? What if you took 20 data points over a one week stretch, and I took 4 over an 8 week stretch. Which do you think would give you the most accurate trend? The one with more data points or the one with more time? Further, If I took 4 over an 8 week stretch and you took 40, would our trend lines be substantially different?
What is the smoothest curve? Either a linear function (no curve), or a perfectly functional curve where the the dependent variable (weight in this case) is precisely related to the independent variable (time). We know it's not, because weight itself is comprised of more than one thing and they change at different weights due to totally different circumstances. As a result, we end up with a trend line (or curve) that can be calculated using data points. If our goal is to lose fat we need a long time window to see the trend line because fat weight changes slowly.
Look at the data for stock prices or market indexes. Over the very long term the curve is much more smooth than shorter terms. Why? Because daily, weekly, or monthly fluctuations vary much more dramatically than long-term ones. If you are looking for what will happen to a stock price or index over a very long period of times, it doesn't matter at all what time of day you check its price on a given day. It's not a perfect mirror for weight fat loss, but it does illustrate that the more data points there are, the more noise there is. But...the number of data points don't affect the trend...they are simply components of it.
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Tacklewasher wrote: »
And, by picking consistent conditions (first thing, after peeing, before eating) you eliminate as much of the noise as possible.
It's not perfect. But nothing will be. Even a daily Dexa scan would be imperfect. It would be better but is cost prohibitive.
Besides. Weighing daily can teach you something about how food impacts. So Wed was Sashimi for lunch and that means too much soy sauce. Thursday I was up 1.6 lbs (expected more). But no bad feelings about it and 1.3 came off by this morning. I know it's going to happen because I have already seen it happen.
Lost in all of my contrarian diatribe is the fact that I agree with a lot this. I like to weigh fairly often as well because it does help me understand what my body is doing. BTW, I also ate sushi on Wednesday and saw the resultant fluctuation yesterday. It didn't freak me out either because, like you, I expected to see that stuff.
I just don't think elimination of noise - on a day to day basis - matters much at all. When we are using a scale to measure, time is a much more important component (assuming we have our CICO in order).
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Silentpadna wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And, by picking consistent conditions (first thing, after peeing, before eating) you eliminate as much of the noise as possible.
It's not perfect. But nothing will be. Even a daily Dexa scan would be imperfect. It would be better but is cost prohibitive.
Besides. Weighing daily can teach you something about how food impacts. So Wed was Sashimi for lunch and that means too much soy sauce. Thursday I was up 1.6 lbs (expected more). But no bad feelings about it and 1.3 came off by this morning. I know it's going to happen because I have already seen it happen.
Lost in all of my contrarian diatribe is the fact that I agree with a lot this. I like to weigh fairly often as well because it does help me understand what my body is doing. BTW, I also ate sushi on Wednesday and saw the resultant fluctuation yesterday. It didn't freak me out either because, like you, I expected to see that stuff.
I just don't think elimination of noise - on a day to day basis - matters much at all. When we are using a scale to measure, time is a much more important component (assuming we have our CICO in order).
I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make. It just seems like arguing for arguing's sake.4
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