A Culture that Loses Its Way Will Always Be Prone to Charlatans and Frauds ( a rant)

LucasWilland

I see it all the time: people want to lose weight and become healthier. Is there anything particularly wrong with this? No, in fact, for most people, I would say that it is a very admirable, though challenging goal. But when I hear people say things like, "oh, well, maybe my husband will like me again if I looked like I did while I was in college," I can only shake my head in despair and weep for humanity.

Let's be honest with ourselves: is what makes a person worthwhile whether they are at a healthier weight or not? Will losing weight make them a better person? Suppose that someone like Jesus was obese and someone like Hitler was skinny? Would the way they look make you think about them any differently? I certainly hope not.

People are trying to lose weight almost every year. They try again and again, and time after time they always fail. And they become very frustrated when they followed the program to a T and failed. They say, "I tried everything. I cut the carbs like they asked, I cut out sugar, alcohol ( fill in the blank word here), and yet I am still fat and miserable."

Now let's be clear here: is this person any less of a person if they were to include sugar and alcohol in their lives in moderate amounts rather than to give into the moniker of clean or dirty foods (whatever the hell that even means)? Are they a dirty person because they ate a dirty food (which is one that some guru says is)?

This is the exact problem I have with clean eating and the fitness industry in general: it's based on the assumption that the only way you can achieve your goals is by hating yourself. You must detoxify your body because you can't trust your liver or kidneys to do it for you; you can only become healthy by completely removing certain foods from your life i.e. it's not your relationship with food, it is the food that is causing you harm.

The cycle of restriction is consistent with our everyday lives. Day after day we are subject to rules and regulations that we must follow to be considered socially acceptable. If we don't follow these rules, other people might not like us, or perhaps we will be left with no friends or spouses. This is perhaps why so many people find fads and quick fixes so appealing: they focus on rules and regulations rather than behaviors for weight loss. It is, after all, far easier to follow a few simple rules i.e. don't eat this or that, then to commit to making better choices both physically and spiritually for your well being.

It is easy to think that following some diet gurus' book will lead to long lasting happiness and weight loss because the formula is so easy, but it won't. You won't be any happier as a person if you are still miserable at 125 pounds vs 170 pounds; you won't be any happier as a person if you lose 5 inches from your waist but have no one to share the victory with.

Weight loss is not a be all end all to living a fulfilled life. While maintaining a healthy weight is one factor, please don't forget about family, friends, activities that you really enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with weight loss, but let's make sure that in losing weight we don't end up losing ourselves.

4legsRbetterthan2

Largely a very insightful post.

it's based on the assumption that the only way you can achieve your goals is by hating yourself.

I don't think this is strictly true, if you look at it form more of a "my body is a temple" standpoint then that seems like coming from a place of love to me.

snowflake954

Interesting and I agree that one shouldn't lose weight thinking it will bring you happiness. One should lose weight to better their health. When one feels better physically, that can help mentally also. As a good friend of ours said "I want to die healthy"--he's 70.

LucasWilland

4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »

Largely a very insightful post.

it's based on the assumption that the only way you can achieve your goals is by hating yourself.

I don't think this is strictly true, if you look at it form more of a "my body is a temple" standpoint then that seems like coming from a place of love to me.

I can see your point here. My intention in writing the post was to bring something to mind that I have noticed lately, and that is a lot of people that have this mindset: "well, if only I looked like I did when I was in college," people will like me more.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to look better and get in shape if you want to, but to think that you have to is a mistake. And my point in bringing up the hate yourself idea was that fitness gurus will tell you that you need to do such and such a thing to achieve a result, and not this or that. It misses the point entirely of context, in that what is optimal will be different for each person depending on their life circumstances, metabolic condition, etc.

So there is no cure-all, and people should really stop looking for it.

CipherZero

I work out, track my food, turn down the cake, and all the rest not because of self-hate, but because I feel worlds better when I do in my day to day life.

When I got fitter and healthier my life became better. I got more discipline, became more energetic, happier, and just felt awesome.

I want to share this feeling with everyone else. I want everybody to make it. It's a wonderful journey of self-worth that everyone can partake in.

I contend it's impossible to make a major change without some discomfort along the way. All the clean eating (which has a definition that varies from person to person), cleanses, and the other silly *kitten* are simply people trying to "beat the system". Hell, if there was an easier and cost-effective way I'd take it too.

LucasWilland

Generally, I hate dogma, which is what I try to rally against. I will make a post on that later.

tulips_and_tea

I definitely agree with your opinion of the diet / fitness industry. They perpetuate fad diets and quick fixes, etc. That's the way they stay in business and make money.

I've posted this before, but I'm a magazine junkie and read tons of them: Fitness, Health, Shape, Self, etc. and have read them for YEARS. I can count on one hand how many times a food scale has been mentioned in any of them. And even then, it was a "can be useful, but not necessary" message.

CSARdiver

I agree with this - this looks beyond the symptoms of weight management and requires a deeper dive to identify the root causes.

As a holistic thinker I also agree with the insight of doing this out of loathing or love. Both result in the same destination, but I suspect those that do so out of self love maintain better in the long term.

The diet industry (like any successful marketed business) thrives off of fear. Fear is a tremendous motivator, but fear is also fleeting. The clean eating/strict diet methodology is doomed for failure as these structured programs and in constant conflict with reality. This also defies scientific proof which shows no repeatable results in the majority of these plans. This is why I love the basic idea behind MFP in that it creates a counter marketing mission - to dispel the fear and present the simple concept of calories in < calorie out.

emdeesea

I see this as a much larger picture actually - the gradual dumbing down of society to keep them uninformed, afraid, and more easily led and open to suggestion. It's much easier to fool people who are uninformed. For example, the diet shake industry certainly would prefer people not know that losing weight is as easy as counting calories. They'd rather you keep buying their products.

GottaBurnEmAll

I think you're arguing a strawman here, to be honest. Dieting to be a healthy bodyweight/bodyfat isn't a question of being a better person.

Let me begin by saying that you're presuming that losing weight requires eliminating certain things, and to be fair to the main part of your argument, the diet industry and the sad state of science reporting in the media support that notion.

The simple fact of losing weight is that "eating clean" isn't necessary to lose weight and the process of how to effect weight loss is lost in a lot of noise, not because people have lost their way in pursuit of goals driven by lesser motivations, but by lack of knowledge, and people out to make a buck.

While it doesn't necessarily make someone a lesser person for not reaching a healthy weight - of course it doesn't - but not reaching a healthy weight does make that person less healthy in the long term.

LAT1963

Yeah I saw an ad on TV "lose 14 lbs in the 1st month" & I'm like...you can do that on MFP for free....or old-school by recording everything in hard copy and looking up calorie contents in books. The diet industry doesn't want us to learn how to eat because if we do they're out of a job.

Fortunately the *exercise clothing* industry wants us all out there eating right and healthy enough to work out. (mfp free version is paid for by Under Armour, in case anyone forgot).

LucasWilland

CipherZero wrote: »

I work out, track my food, turn down the cake, and all the rest not because of self-hate, but because I feel worlds better when I do in my day to day life.

When I got fitter and healthier my life became better. I got more discipline, became more energetic, happier, and just felt awesome.

I want to share this feeling with everyone else. I want everybody to make it. It's a wonderful journey of self-worth that everyone can partake in.

I contend it's impossible to make a major change without some discomfort along the way. All the clean eating (which has a definition that varies from person to person), cleanses, and the other silly *kitten* are simply people trying to "beat the system". Hell, if there was an easier and cost-effective way I'd take it too.

I agree, and that's wonderful. Understand: I am not bashing those who are attempting to make a healthier lifestyle, but it is important to realize that taking too much of an extreme approach because society says you should do so is both misguided and dangerous.

The amount of girls and young women I see with eating disorders is absolutely staggering, and it is no laughing matter that anorexia nervosa is also on the rise in teens. I had one person ask someone how they stayed thin, and they replied with that "they just don't eat." That is legitimately disturbing to me, especially since I struggled with my self-image all throughout high school.

During high school I thought the only way I could get girls' attention since I was rather shy, was by getting as lean and muscular as possible. I dieted very strictly: eating only fruits, vegetables, lean meats, and a few nuts, and ran at least three miles a day and weight lifted over 4 times a week. I never consumed sugar or anything pleasurable at all. I even turned down birthday cake when my Mom made it for me. When I thought I had been good for the week, I would reward myself with one piece of dark chocolate, but that was it.

I was then shocked when I was rejected by the girl I wanted to date and proceeded to have secret binges of large amounts of peanut butter and chocolate. Here I was thinking that I did everything I could to get a better body, but I was still depressed and miserable as ever. That's when I realized that there is far more to life than just having a great body: if you are miserable right now, then likely not much will change-- you will just be a smaller version of yourself.

My concern comes from a place of care. I don't want people to make the same mistakes that I made. Even though I am male, I did suffer from an eating disorder, and I want all the females out there to know that they are free to talk about it anytime they want ( and to realize that you don't have to be what society says you have to to be worth it). The real satisfaction in life comes from finding the meaning within yourself, not some diet or exercise program.

Orphia

I like your OP.

You might also like this OP which is one of my favourite MFP posts and covers similar ground:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10201207/why-losing-weight-feels-so-effortless-for-me-this-time-around

elleelise wrote: »

Former binge eater and experienced yo-yo dieter here (but luckily reformed after two hard years of work with an intuitive eating/body image counselor.)

In the past weight loss was such an epic struggle and always ended up in failure after two or three weeks despite being a discliplined and successful woman in all other areas of my life. However upon starting my weight loss journey in April (tracking as of June) I found that a couple of very important intentions and habits are making ALL the difference. I am 1.8 pounds from 15 lost and it makes my goal of 40 feel SO doable.

Here is what I've gleaned this time around. Take it with a grain of salt, or take it to heart if it resonates with you:

1. You gotta love yourself before you ever begin to weigh your food or track your calories. If your intention to lose weight comes from a place of self loathing versus self love, you are setting yourself up for failure and heartache. Yes, even if you are a size 26 and 350 pounds ladies. Negative emotions don't help. We (females) are inundated with a disgusting number of negative body messages on a daily basis, so it is easy to fall into a very unhealthy conversation with ourselves about our bodies. Even in my conditioning class my instructor recently tried to motivate us by saying "Think about how bikini worthy you'll be and push on!" At this point I raised my hand and explained that I am already bikini worthy and ready at a jiggly size 16, as were all the other women in the room. Enjoy life now and don't put it off until you reach a goal weight. Challenge these messages. Grow to appreciate yourself and want to care for yourself first. Took me two years to learn this and for me, it was the most important step, and the most challenging one.

2. Move first, track second. This may go against 99% of people here, but my argument for getting moving first is that restricting your calories doesn't always FEEL good intitially but movement does (at least for me...) Movement and being active boosts your mood and makes you feel strong and accomplished at any stage in your body. When you work out it also has positive ripple effects relating to nutrition, sleep, water intake. Healthy habits trump being in a smaller body except in extreme cases, so focus on habits and health first, weight/physical mass second in my humble opinion.

3. Don't overthink it. Track your food. Weigh what you can. Stick within your daily caloric targets 90-95% of the time. And have it come from a place of self love and compassion, not hatred and punishment. And if you strumble, no biggie. Don't punish yourself or make it mean more than it is.

4. Don't villiainize foods. Cookies are not bad. You are not "good" for eating kale. Being paleo or primal or "clean" isn't the holy grail. Strip these stupid food rules away. If you want a brownie, make it work for your calories. Every food has a place in a well rounded deficit and diet. Guilt has no place in a well rounded diet however.

5. Don't place time constraits on your weight loss journey. Be flexible, be patient and enjoy the journey instead of trying to rush to the finish line. In the past I would always set up specific goals relating to weight or measurements, and this would always contribute to a sense of disappointment and self hatred at "failing." Just don't do it. Plan to be here for a long, long time and find a way to love the process more than the product.

6. Notice if you are in a binge-guilt-restrict-lose weight-binge-guilt-etc... eating pattern. If so, it'll take more than yet another diet program or calorie counting goal to work through. Disordered eating is rampant in our society. I would argue that a huge population of people on these threads have disordered eating and are totally unaware. If you do suffer from negative body image, binge eating disorder, yo-yo dieting addition, obsession with food, the answer won't be weight loss and you should confront those inner deamons and psychological aspects prior to counting calories and trying to get leaner and smaller.

Just my two cents! Hope this helps someone.

Orphia

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

I think you're arguing a strawman here, to be honest. Dieting to be a healthy bodyweight/bodyfat isn't a question of being a better person.

Let me begin by saying that you're presuming that losing weight requires eliminating certain things, and to be fair to the main part of your argument, the diet industry and the sad state of science reporting in the media support that notion.

The simple fact of losing weight is that "eating clean" isn't necessary to lose weight and the process of how to effect weight loss is lost in a lot of noise, not because people have lost their way in pursuit of goals driven by lesser motivations, but by lack of knowledge, and people out to make a buck.

While it doesn't necessarily make someone a lesser person for not reaching a healthy weight - of course it doesn't - but not reaching a healthy weight does make that person less healthy in the long term.

@GottaBurnEmAll I think you misread the OP. You are repeating what he said, in different words. Cheers.

GottaBurnEmAll

Orphia wrote: »

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

I think you're arguing a strawman here, to be honest. Dieting to be a healthy bodyweight/bodyfat isn't a question of being a better person.

Let me begin by saying that you're presuming that losing weight requires eliminating certain things, and to be fair to the main part of your argument, the diet industry and the sad state of science reporting in the media support that notion.

The simple fact of losing weight is that "eating clean" isn't necessary to lose weight and the process of how to effect weight loss is lost in a lot of noise, not because people have lost their way in pursuit of goals driven by lesser motivations, but by lack of knowledge, and people out to make a buck.

While it doesn't necessarily make someone a lesser person for not reaching a healthy weight - of course it doesn't - but not reaching a healthy weight does make that person less healthy in the long term.

@GottaBurnEmAll I think you misread the OP. You are repeating what he said, in different words. Cheers.

Probably. I'm often distracted by a teenager babbling about Pokemon Roadblocks while I'm posting.

snickerscharlie

LucasWilland wrote: »

The cycle of restriction is consistent with our everyday lives. Day after day we are subject to rules and regulations that we must follow to be considered socially acceptable. If we don't follow these rules, other people might not like us, or perhaps we will be left with no friends or spouses. This is perhaps why so many people find fads and quick fixes so appealing: they focus on rules and regulations rather than behaviors for weight loss. It is, after all, far easier to follow a few simple rules i.e. don't eat this or that, then to commit to making better choices both physically and spiritually for your well being.

This. And because every media and advertising venue for profit focusses on the quick fix. For the most part, due to technology, we are a society that has increasingly become accustomed to instant gratification.

Case in point:

When I was a kid and I had a question about, say, the solar system, I'd ask my parents. If they didn't know, I'd phone my friends. If they didn't know, and I really wanted to know the answer, I had to physically get off my butt, walk to the library and research the answer.

Now? Open a web browser and 3 seconds later you'll have all of the info you could ever want.

Although technology is a wonderful thing, and I think the younger generation having grown up with it is far more informed than mine will ever be. But it also may tend to make people have less patience for a process that is as slow and, at times, tedious as weight loss.

People tend to want to do a sprint, not a marathon.

gamerbabe14

The fitness industry isn't any different than the tobacco industry, or the food industry, or any other industry. They create a desire/need and people purchase it because that's what they feel like they desire/need. People buy their desires everyday.

yellingkimber

LucasWilland wrote: »

I see it all the time: people want to lose weight and become healthier. Is there anything particularly wrong with this? No, in fact, for most people, I would say that it is a very admirable, though challenging goal. But when I hear people say things like, "oh, well, maybe my husband will like me again if I looked like I did while I was in college," I can only shake my head in despair and weep for humanity.

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, I just wanted to point out something that you might have overlooked in regards to the quoted part of the message. A lot of the time, those people are right. Their husband indeed might like them more at a lower weight! Not because of how they look, though. Stay with me here.

For a lot of people (particularly those of us diagnosed with depression), gaining weight is a symptom of a shift that's occurred mentally. I know that as I got more and more depressed, the weight gradually kept piling on. The medical professionals I worked with assured me that that's a normal thing to happen. Looking back, I was miserable to be around while this weight was piling on because I was just so depressed and didn't give a kitten about anything. People seem to like me better at my lower weights not because of how I look, but because losing weight was a symptom of an improved mental state (which might make someone's husband tolerate them more!) I hope that made sense?

Geocitiesuser

LucasWilland wrote: »

Let's be honest with ourselves: is what makes a person worthwhile whether they are at a healthier weight or not?

Since we are being honest with ourselves. Yes. A HUGE part of being attractive to your preferred sex involves being a healthy weight (if not exceptionally healthy fitness level). That's just the way it is. Since we are being honest, absolutely yes gaining a lot of weight can destroy a marriage.

And this doesn't apply to just women. If anything I'd say social rejection is even harsher for a lot of overweight men, but no one is allowed to talk about it because it's not politically correct. The FA and HAES movements are primarily geared towards women, and "feeder" fetishes rarely involve the man being overweight.

Does being a healthy weight make someone "worth while"? Not on a spiritual level, but on a gender relations level... abso-kitten-lutely.

/harsh reality that no one will want to agree with.