Mediterranean Diet

lemurcat12

crazyycatlady1 wrote: »

snowflake954 wrote: »

crazyycatlady1 wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »

The Mediterranean Diet as studied in the 1940s and 1950s is: no sugar, no yeast, no meat except fish, no dairy, no eggs, no alcohol other than wine and that sparingly. It is the diet of pre-Vatican II Catholics and devout Eastern Orthodox churches today. It is 46 days of self-depreviation in imitation of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness. I once heard someone say that when he was a child he thought it was called Lent because Lentils were served at every meal.

Anyway, the original researchers didn't realize that they were asking their questions during a time of fasting. I am not saying that denying yourself those things won't cause weight loss, just that even the original study participants didn't eat that way every day all year. Greeks love their lamb and Italians like their cheese.

Is that really the case? I'm asking because it's intriguing. I eat a mix of Middle Eastern and Russian diet. The Middle Eastern diet generally has many overlapping characteristics with the Mediterranean diet (that's why I said I eat a Mediterranean "style" diet) but Christians are a minority so their fast is not a main influence on the diet as a whole, yet I observe less reliance on red meat, which only makes an appearance a few times a month - might just be how my family eats.

Lamb is mostly for special occasions, EVOO and olives are a daily must, grains are heavily featured and so are certain legumes. Fruits and vegetables are cheap and abundant, and most kids like dishes with vegetables (because they grew up on them making up the majority of the cuisine) and eat fruits for snacks (in addition to candy and chips haha). Food is often family oriented and eating out or ordering in is the exception not the norm. The main difference, at least in my area, is that unlike the Mediterranean diet, fish is only eaten occasionally and dairy makes a daily appearance in forms of plain yogurt/greek yogurt and local brine cheese, so that might be more dairy than the guidelines suggest?

What's interesting is that what I see (at least in my family) is closer to a Greek diet than a North African - we do more dolmas, pastitsio and moussaka than tajin. In fact, believe it or not, although I've had couscous because I was curious I have never had tajin.

ETA: got carried away and forgot to mention my main point. The characteristics of a Mediterranean diet appear to be so broad that many cultures can relate.

I've also read this-that during the time that the study happened was during Lent and it totally skewed everything Let me see if I can find what I was reading!

eta: so far, just from wiki-
'The second major critique of The Seven Countries Study was published by Nina Teicholz, in The Big Fat Surprise. She was the first to analyze the problems with the data underlying Keys' Mediterranean data (which provided the foundation of the Mediterranean diet), and she was the first to establish that the survey in Crete was conducted during Lent, thereby causing Keys to dramatically undercount the amount of saturated fat eaten. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study

However from what is reported here (Italy) the Keyes actually lived in southern Italy (Calabria) for awhile.

Also, while there's a lot of criticism of Keyes, the guy lived to be 100 years old and worked almost until the end of his life-he must have been doing something right (or had stellar genes).

Good piece: http://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2016/04/13/Ancel-Keys-and-the-Seven-Country-Study-A-Response-to-The-Sugar-Conspiracy

cwolfman13

Gianfranco_R wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I think the Mediterranean diet is more conceptual than "eat this, don't eat that"...it's basically a substantively whole foods diet...lots of veg, some fruit, nuts, legumes, lean sourced protein, healthy fats...my diet is very much built on that concept. I have lost weight, maintained weight, and gained weight eating this way.

Let's say it is a 'pattern'.
You can measure your adherence though:

Yeah, but this is just the made up part...the Mediterranean area is quite large and different areas of the region are going to eat different things...the Greeks really dig their lamb for example...people living in land aren't going to eat as much fish, etc...

Gianfranco_R

crazyycatlady1 wrote: »

snowflake954 wrote: »

crazyycatlady1 wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »

The Mediterranean Diet as studied in the 1940s and 1950s is: no sugar, no yeast, no meat except fish, no dairy, no eggs, no alcohol other than wine and that sparingly. It is the diet of pre-Vatican II Catholics and devout Eastern Orthodox churches today. It is 46 days of self-depreviation in imitation of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness. I once heard someone say that when he was a child he thought it was called Lent because Lentils were served at every meal.

Anyway, the original researchers didn't realize that they were asking their questions during a time of fasting. I am not saying that denying yourself those things won't cause weight loss, just that even the original study participants didn't eat that way every day all year. Greeks love their lamb and Italians like their cheese.

Is that really the case? I'm asking because it's intriguing. I eat a mix of Middle Eastern and Russian diet. The Middle Eastern diet generally has many overlapping characteristics with the Mediterranean diet (that's why I said I eat a Mediterranean "style" diet) but Christians are a minority so their fast is not a main influence on the diet as a whole, yet I observe less reliance on red meat, which only makes an appearance a few times a month - might just be how my family eats.

Lamb is mostly for special occasions, EVOO and olives are a daily must, grains are heavily featured and so are certain legumes. Fruits and vegetables are cheap and abundant, and most kids like dishes with vegetables (because they grew up on them making up the majority of the cuisine) and eat fruits for snacks (in addition to candy and chips haha). Food is often family oriented and eating out or ordering in is the exception not the norm. The main difference, at least in my area, is that unlike the Mediterranean diet, fish is only eaten occasionally and dairy makes a daily appearance in forms of plain yogurt/greek yogurt and local brine cheese, so that might be more dairy than the guidelines suggest?

What's interesting is that what I see (at least in my family) is closer to a Greek diet than a North African - we do more dolmas, pastitsio and moussaka than tajin. In fact, believe it or not, although I've had couscous because I was curious I have never had tajin.

ETA: got carried away and forgot to mention my main point. The characteristics of a Mediterranean diet appear to be so broad that many cultures can relate.

I've also read this-that during the time that the study happened was during Lent and it totally skewed everything Let me see if I can find what I was reading!

eta: so far, just from wiki-
'The second major critique of The Seven Countries Study was published by Nina Teicholz, in The Big Fat Surprise. She was the first to analyze the problems with the data underlying Keys' Mediterranean data (which provided the foundation of the Mediterranean diet), and she was the first to establish that the survey in Crete was conducted during Lent, thereby causing Keys to dramatically undercount the amount of saturated fat eaten. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study

However from what is reported here (Italy) the Keyes actually lived in southern Italy (Calabria) for awhile.

Also, while there's a lot of criticism of Keyes, the guy lived to be 100 years old and worked almost until the end of his life-he must have been doing something right (or had stellar genes).

definitely (also his wife lived very long), and the discovery of the health benefits of the Mediterranean Diet is perhaps his biggest merit. But this doesn't imply that the diet-heart hypothesis is also true

MelissaPhippsFeagins

amusedmonkey wrote: »

MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »

The Mediterranean Diet as studied in the 1940s and 1950s is: no sugar, no yeast, no meat except fish, no dairy, no eggs, no alcohol other than wine and that sparingly. It is the diet of pre-Vatican II Catholics and devout Eastern Orthodox churches today. It is 46 days of self-depreviation in imitation of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness. I once heard someone say that when he was a child he thought it was called Lent because Lentils were served at every meal.

Anyway, the original researchers didn't realize that they were asking their questions during a time of fasting. I am not saying that denying yourself those things won't cause weight loss, just that even the original study participants didn't eat that way every day all year. Greeks love their lamb and Italians like their cheese.

Is that really the case? I'm asking because it's intriguing. I eat a mix of Middle Eastern and Russian diet. The Middle Eastern diet generally has many overlapping characteristics with the Mediterranean diet (that's why I said I eat a Mediterranean "style" diet) but Christians are a minority so their fast is not a main influence on the diet as a whole, yet I observe less reliance on red meat, which only makes an appearance a few times a month - might just be how my family eats.

Lamb is mostly for special occasions, EVOO and olives are a daily must, grains are heavily featured and so are certain legumes. Fruits and vegetables are cheap and abundant, and most kids like dishes with vegetables (because they grew up on them making up the majority of the cuisine) and eat fruits for snacks (in addition to candy and chips haha). Food is often family oriented and eating out or ordering in is the exception not the norm. The main difference, at least in my area, is that unlike the Mediterranean diet, fish is only eaten occasionally and dairy makes a daily appearance in forms of plain yogurt/greek yogurt and local brine cheese, so that might be more dairy than the guidelines suggest?

What's interesting is that what I see (at least in my family) is closer to a Greek diet than a North African - we do more dolmas, pastitsio and moussaka than tajin. In fact, believe it or not, although I've had couscous because I was curious I have never had tajin.

ETA: got carried away and forgot to mention my main point. The characteristics of a Mediterranean diet appear to be so broad that many cultures can relate.

amusedmonkey wrote: »

MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »

The Mediterranean Diet as studied in the 1940s and 1950s is: no sugar, no yeast, no meat except fish, no dairy, no eggs, no alcohol other than wine and that sparingly. It is the diet of pre-Vatican II Catholics and devout Eastern Orthodox churches today. It is 46 days of self-depreviation in imitation of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness. I once heard someone say that when he was a child he thought it was called Lent because Lentils were served at every meal.

Anyway, the original researchers didn't realize that they were asking their questions during a time of fasting. I am not saying that denying yourself those things won't cause weight loss, just that even the original study participants didn't eat that way every day all year. Greeks love their lamb and Italians like their cheese.

Is that really the case? I'm asking because it's intriguing. I eat a mix of Middle Eastern and Russian diet. The Middle Eastern diet generally has many overlapping characteristics with the Mediterranean diet (that's why I said I eat a Mediterranean "style" diet) but Christians are a minority so their fast is not a main influence on the diet as a whole, yet I observe less reliance on red meat, which only makes an appearance a few times a month - might just be how my family eats.

Lamb is mostly for special occasions, EVOO and olives are a daily must, grains are heavily featured and so are certain legumes. Fruits and vegetables are cheap and abundant, and most kids like dishes with vegetables (because they grew up on them making up the majority of the cuisine) and eat fruits for snacks (in addition to candy and chips haha). Food is often family oriented and eating out or ordering in is the exception not the norm. The main difference, at least in my area, is that unlike the Mediterranean diet, fish is only eaten occasionally and dairy makes a daily appearance in forms of plain yogurt/greek yogurt and local brine cheese, so that might be more dairy than the guidelines suggest?

What's interesting is that what I see (at least in my family) is closer to a Greek diet than a North African - we do more dolmas, pastitsio and moussaka than tajin. In fact, believe it or not, although I've had couscous because I was curious I have never had tajin.

ETA: got carried away and forgot to mention my main point. The characteristics of a Mediterranean diet appear to be so broad that many cultures can relate.

Yes, it's true of the original studies. They were done, IIRC, mostly in southern Italy and Greece, where the majority of the people were Orthodox Catholic or Greek Orthodox. My research and statistics professor used it as an example of knowing your sample group. American Protestants who didn't keep Lent at all asked the first groups to record their food for 30 days that happened to fall during Lent. He made us do a similar study on campus. My friends all stress ate when they had exams. I learned I wasn't alone.

The studies since then have corrected the problem by sampling throughout the year, but there's still the possibility of my not writing everything down because I forget or I don't want you to judge the amount of food x that I eat. (for me, food x is peanut butter. I wouldn't sabotage your study on purpose, but I might be afraid you would judge me)


I imagine that the premise of eating a Mediterranean or Midwestern diet is still healthier than eat everything that you can afford and most of it processed beyond recognition. I just always think of that professor and that class when I hear the words Mediterranean Diet.

ETA: Mideastern, not Midwestern. I swear that autocorrect is my nemesis.

crazyycatlady1

lemurcat12 wrote: »

crazyycatlady1 wrote: »

snowflake954 wrote: »

crazyycatlady1 wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »

The Mediterranean Diet as studied in the 1940s and 1950s is: no sugar, no yeast, no meat except fish, no dairy, no eggs, no alcohol other than wine and that sparingly. It is the diet of pre-Vatican II Catholics and devout Eastern Orthodox churches today. It is 46 days of self-depreviation in imitation of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness. I once heard someone say that when he was a child he thought it was called Lent because Lentils were served at every meal.

Anyway, the original researchers didn't realize that they were asking their questions during a time of fasting. I am not saying that denying yourself those things won't cause weight loss, just that even the original study participants didn't eat that way every day all year. Greeks love their lamb and Italians like their cheese.

Is that really the case? I'm asking because it's intriguing. I eat a mix of Middle Eastern and Russian diet. The Middle Eastern diet generally has many overlapping characteristics with the Mediterranean diet (that's why I said I eat a Mediterranean "style" diet) but Christians are a minority so their fast is not a main influence on the diet as a whole, yet I observe less reliance on red meat, which only makes an appearance a few times a month - might just be how my family eats.

Lamb is mostly for special occasions, EVOO and olives are a daily must, grains are heavily featured and so are certain legumes. Fruits and vegetables are cheap and abundant, and most kids like dishes with vegetables (because they grew up on them making up the majority of the cuisine) and eat fruits for snacks (in addition to candy and chips haha). Food is often family oriented and eating out or ordering in is the exception not the norm. The main difference, at least in my area, is that unlike the Mediterranean diet, fish is only eaten occasionally and dairy makes a daily appearance in forms of plain yogurt/greek yogurt and local brine cheese, so that might be more dairy than the guidelines suggest?

What's interesting is that what I see (at least in my family) is closer to a Greek diet than a North African - we do more dolmas, pastitsio and moussaka than tajin. In fact, believe it or not, although I've had couscous because I was curious I have never had tajin.

ETA: got carried away and forgot to mention my main point. The characteristics of a Mediterranean diet appear to be so broad that many cultures can relate.

I've also read this-that during the time that the study happened was during Lent and it totally skewed everything Let me see if I can find what I was reading!

eta: so far, just from wiki-
'The second major critique of The Seven Countries Study was published by Nina Teicholz, in The Big Fat Surprise. She was the first to analyze the problems with the data underlying Keys' Mediterranean data (which provided the foundation of the Mediterranean diet), and she was the first to establish that the survey in Crete was conducted during Lent, thereby causing Keys to dramatically undercount the amount of saturated fat eaten. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study

However from what is reported here (Italy) the Keyes actually lived in southern Italy (Calabria) for awhile.

Also, while there's a lot of criticism of Keyes, the guy lived to be 100 years old and worked almost until the end of his life-he must have been doing something right (or had stellar genes).

Good piece: http://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2016/04/13/Ancel-Keys-and-the-Seven-Country-Study-A-Response-to-The-Sugar-Conspiracy

Just read it- great info, thanks!

lemurcat12

MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »

The Mediterranean Diet as studied in the 1940s and 1950s is: no sugar, no yeast, no meat except fish, no dairy, no eggs, no alcohol other than wine and that sparingly. It is the diet of pre-Vatican II Catholics and devout Eastern Orthodox churches today. It is 46 days of self-depreviation in imitation of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness. I once heard someone say that when he was a child he thought it was called Lent because Lentils were served at every meal.

Anyway, the original researchers didn't realize that they were asking their questions during a time of fasting. I am not saying that denying yourself those things won't cause weight loss, just that even the original study participants didn't eat that way every day all year. Greeks love their lamb and Italians like their cheese.

Is that really the case? I'm asking because it's intriguing. I eat a mix of Middle Eastern and Russian diet. The Middle Eastern diet generally has many overlapping characteristics with the Mediterranean diet (that's why I said I eat a Mediterranean "style" diet) but Christians are a minority so their fast is not a main influence on the diet as a whole, yet I observe less reliance on red meat, which only makes an appearance a few times a month - might just be how my family eats.

Lamb is mostly for special occasions, EVOO and olives are a daily must, grains are heavily featured and so are certain legumes. Fruits and vegetables are cheap and abundant, and most kids like dishes with vegetables (because they grew up on them making up the majority of the cuisine) and eat fruits for snacks (in addition to candy and chips haha). Food is often family oriented and eating out or ordering in is the exception not the norm. The main difference, at least in my area, is that unlike the Mediterranean diet, fish is only eaten occasionally and dairy makes a daily appearance in forms of plain yogurt/greek yogurt and local brine cheese, so that might be more dairy than the guidelines suggest?

What's interesting is that what I see (at least in my family) is closer to a Greek diet than a North African - we do more dolmas, pastitsio and moussaka than tajin. In fact, believe it or not, although I've had couscous because I was curious I have never had tajin.

ETA: got carried away and forgot to mention my main point. The characteristics of a Mediterranean diet appear to be so broad that many cultures can relate.

amusedmonkey wrote: »

MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »

The Mediterranean Diet as studied in the 1940s and 1950s is: no sugar, no yeast, no meat except fish, no dairy, no eggs, no alcohol other than wine and that sparingly. It is the diet of pre-Vatican II Catholics and devout Eastern Orthodox churches today. It is 46 days of self-depreviation in imitation of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness. I once heard someone say that when he was a child he thought it was called Lent because Lentils were served at every meal.

Anyway, the original researchers didn't realize that they were asking their questions during a time of fasting. I am not saying that denying yourself those things won't cause weight loss, just that even the original study participants didn't eat that way every day all year. Greeks love their lamb and Italians like their cheese.

Is that really the case? I'm asking because it's intriguing. I eat a mix of Middle Eastern and Russian diet. The Middle Eastern diet generally has many overlapping characteristics with the Mediterranean diet (that's why I said I eat a Mediterranean "style" diet) but Christians are a minority so their fast is not a main influence on the diet as a whole, yet I observe less reliance on red meat, which only makes an appearance a few times a month - might just be how my family eats.

Lamb is mostly for special occasions, EVOO and olives are a daily must, grains are heavily featured and so are certain legumes. Fruits and vegetables are cheap and abundant, and most kids like dishes with vegetables (because they grew up on them making up the majority of the cuisine) and eat fruits for snacks (in addition to candy and chips haha). Food is often family oriented and eating out or ordering in is the exception not the norm. The main difference, at least in my area, is that unlike the Mediterranean diet, fish is only eaten occasionally and dairy makes a daily appearance in forms of plain yogurt/greek yogurt and local brine cheese, so that might be more dairy than the guidelines suggest?

What's interesting is that what I see (at least in my family) is closer to a Greek diet than a North African - we do more dolmas, pastitsio and moussaka than tajin. In fact, believe it or not, although I've had couscous because I was curious I have never had tajin.

ETA: got carried away and forgot to mention my main point. The characteristics of a Mediterranean diet appear to be so broad that many cultures can relate.

Yes, it's true of the original studies. They were done, IIRC, mostly in southern Italy and Greece, where the majority of the people were Orthodox Catholic or Greek Orthodox. My research and statistics professor used it as an example of knowing your sample group. American Protestants who didn't keep Lent at all asked the first groups to record their food for 30 days that happened to fall during Lent.

This appears not to be true. Keys had an Italian partner when writing about the Med diet, for one thing, but also the way the 7 Countries Study worked (and I think it's imperfect but not based on the "they didn't know it was Lent!" thing) is that they tried to avoid self-reporting problems by selecting a variety of families and following what they ate at different times of the year. One of the periods (not the whole thing) was from Lent, which makes sense, as the fact that the way of eating included such periods of time is of course relevant. The idea that he was too dumb to know people ate differently during Lent in many cultures is one I think is unlikely and I see nothing to support it.

Beyond that, the Med diet has been studied many times since then, and the normal definition includes meat and is not a vegan diet (and it includes a lot of olive oil, also inconsistent with Greek Lent, from what I understand).

Sabine_Stroehm

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I think the Mediterranean diet is more conceptual than "eat this, don't eat that"...it's basically a substantively whole foods diet...lots of veg, some fruit, nuts, legumes, lean sourced protein, healthy fats...my diet is very much built on that concept. I have lost weight, maintained weight, and gained weight eating this way.

Pretty much how I see it, and how my diet is built as well. Maintaining +-5-7 for 15 years.

lemurcat12

The main difference between the Med diet and other largely whole foods traditional diets (in Europe and the US, back in the day) is that the more northern diets include more dairy, more meat, more sat fat, but less olive oil, probably less of certain kinds of produce at certain times of year (because of climate differences). Both (because traditional diets) would have been pretty high in things like nuts, whole grains, produce, other whole plant-based foods.

I have a slight bias toward the Med diet as a personal preference (and part of my overall Med jealousy), and there are some studies that suggest that way of eating vs. the more northern one does have benefits, but I think both are pretty decent ways to eat vs. what is more common today, and I tend to balance between them (in part because I am of more northern heritage and live in a more northern climate, so grew up with a lots of the more northern European food traditions and what I have locally available reflects that a little).