Is a calorie really a calorie?

dudebro200

TimothyFish wrote: »

dudebro200 wrote: »

Multiple times in history, we have seen Aboriginal people switch from a meat and veggie diet to a neothilic diet and instantly become overweight, suffer heart disease, sloth and a whole host of other dietary related problems. Then they return to the bush and these problems get fixed.

Why attribute this to diet rather than to environment and culture? Would we not expect people living in "the bush" to have to work harder to obtain food? Could it be that the amount of food served at family meals is smaller? Perhaps overeating is taboo in those cultures, unlike in the western world where the all you can eat buffet is celebrated, prizes are given to people who can eat the biggest steak, and we are constantly told that "big is beautiful." Could it be that people eat more with a fork an knife than they do with chopsticks? Could it be that people who live in a densely populated country are more likely to walk or ride bicycles to their destination?

Recent studies have shown that energy output between Hunter gathers and westerners is about the same.

It's easy to speculate when genetic evidence isn't involved, but genetic evidence is involved in analogous cases now.

We seem to think we are above genetics, I am.not sure that's the case. I think it's an important factor in life planning

GottaBurnEmAll

I have Northern and Southern European ancestors.

I guess I can't eat anything.

rolenthegreat

When I up my protein and lower my carbs I can get a bit backed up, but I attribute my diet being a bit lower in fiber when I eat that way.
My heritage is mostly Irish/German not sure where that puts me on the Northern/Southern European scale though.

comeonnow142857

dudebro200 wrote: »

Recent studies have shown that energy output between Hunter gathers and westerners is about the same.

That might have something to do with westerners being much fatter. It takes a lot of energy to move a bigger body through a sedentary life.

VintageFeline

Bottom line, why not just eat in a way that makes you feel good? How low are your calories and how high is your protein that you can't allow some carbs that you feel like death the entire time. And how long have you been doing it because it does take some time for the body to adapt.

I'm a female close to goal, I don't have a lot of wiggle room but you can be damn sure I can fit in carbs and still hit my protein goal.

VeryKatie

Imagine growing up eating a certain diet. You know, without knowing the numbers, how much you need to feel satisfied and to maintain a healthy body - we learn it from infancy (hopefully). Now imagine you suddenly change your diet when you are older. What instincts do you have that help you tell how much is enough or how you should feel when you're full? This is probably the main part of the issue. If you have nothing to relate it to, how do you know enough is enough? The way I feel full of veggies feels very different to me than the way I feel when I am full of pasta.

lemurcat12

dudebro200 wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

dudebro200 wrote: »

There also appears to be a difference between Northern and Southern Europe.

Oh, dear. Guess I better not eat the Med diet.

(In the last week I've made pasta at home, had Indian food, and had Ethiopian food. Guess I should feel awful.)

I do think what you eat matters to how you feel -- there's even a good explanation of part of this in the book I cited above -- but I think you are assuming too much based on that.

Assuming too much? There appears to be some hard evidence that regional diets and regional genetics may not always be compatible. Dairy based diets are just one example of this.

I actually thought you were, and the second article seemed to read a lot in to the study that was not said. The first article was good. None of it suggests that you have a genetic need to eat low protein or without meat, although vegetarian can be a good choice for lots of other reasons.

Assuming that we should decide what diet to follow based on specific ethnicity seems silly, though (as in Swedes eat X, Italians eat Y). This is especially true as Europeans tend to be pretty mixed up if you go back far enough (as far as you are talking about, which is why the results in both cases are mixed). Populations like the Inuit are rare.

VeryKatie

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

I have Northern and Southern European ancestors.

I guess I can't eat anything.

Or you can eat everything?

ccsernica

stevencloser wrote: »

It's not the diet you're designed for, it's the one you're used to. Introduce a vastly different lifestyle and your body needs to adapt, and it will. You don't go to gym for the first time, try to go for the big ones right away, fail miserably, then leave saying your body isn't designed to lift stuff either. You adapt, the more gradually you do it the less uncomfortable it'll be.

This is only partly true. Lactose intolerance is an example. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_evolution/2012/10/evolution_of_lactose_tolerance_why_do_humans_keep_drinking_milk.html The ability to tolerate lactose into adulthood, and so be able to use fresh milk as an energy source, is a mutation that arose relatively late in human history, and even now it's not universal. The Wikipedia page on lactose intolerance is written as if lactose tolerance is the norm, but that's not necessarily true. If you happen to belong to an ethnic group where lactose tolerance is rare, you're unlikely to be able to develop a tolerance for it no matter how much of it you subject yourself to.

kq1981

If I looked deeply into stuff like this there would be no way I could sustainably lose weight and be passionate and have determination to do it when I'm second guessing everything. I'm Italian, does that mean my diet has to be composed of the stereotypical Italian diet?
100 calories of broccoli is EXACTLY the same as 100 calories of chocolate. The amount and satiation of each does differ although.

KWlosingit

in regards to the lactose intolerance this research they are doing is very interesting about how the type of lactose in cows milk has changed because of the types of cows we are using for milk.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/features/cows-milk-for-the-lactose-intolerant-the-turning-pint-9704759.html

stevencloser

ccsernica wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

It's not the diet you're designed for, it's the one you're used to. Introduce a vastly different lifestyle and your body needs to adapt, and it will. You don't go to gym for the first time, try to go for the big ones right away, fail miserably, then leave saying your body isn't designed to lift stuff either. You adapt, the more gradually you do it the less uncomfortable it'll be.

This is only partly true. Lactose intolerance is an example. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_evolution/2012/10/evolution_of_lactose_tolerance_why_do_humans_keep_drinking_milk.html The ability to tolerate lactose into adulthood, and so be able to use fresh milk as an energy source, is a mutation that arose relatively late in human history, and even now it's not universal. The Wikipedia page on lactose intolerance is written as if lactose tolerance is the norm, but that's not necessarily true. If you happen to belong to an ethnic group where lactose tolerance is rare, you're unlikely to be able to develop a tolerance for it no matter how much of it you subject yourself to.

Lactose tolerance comes from keeping an enzyme through adulthood that normally animals lose after weaning.
There's no enzyme for "eating more meat than you're used to" though.

ccsernica

stevencloser wrote: »

ccsernica wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

It's not the diet you're designed for, it's the one you're used to. Introduce a vastly different lifestyle and your body needs to adapt, and it will. You don't go to gym for the first time, try to go for the big ones right away, fail miserably, then leave saying your body isn't designed to lift stuff either. You adapt, the more gradually you do it the less uncomfortable it'll be.

This is only partly true. Lactose intolerance is an example. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_evolution/2012/10/evolution_of_lactose_tolerance_why_do_humans_keep_drinking_milk.html The ability to tolerate lactose into adulthood, and so be able to use fresh milk as an energy source, is a mutation that arose relatively late in human history, and even now it's not universal. The Wikipedia page on lactose intolerance is written as if lactose tolerance is the norm, but that's not necessarily true. If you happen to belong to an ethnic group where lactose tolerance is rare, you're unlikely to be able to develop a tolerance for it no matter how much of it you subject yourself to.

Lactose tolerance comes from keeping an enzyme through adulthood that normally animals lose after weaning.
There's no enzyme for "eating more meat than you're used to" though.

Right. Therefore, what you said earlier is only partially true. Even if mostly true, that's still partial.

Since the OP specifically mentioned lactose intolerance, it's relevant.

dudebro200

stevencloser wrote: »

ccsernica wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

It's not the diet you're designed for, it's the one you're used to. Introduce a vastly different lifestyle and your body needs to adapt, and it will. You don't go to gym for the first time, try to go for the big ones right away, fail miserably, then leave saying your body isn't designed to lift stuff either. You adapt, the more gradually you do it the less uncomfortable it'll be.

This is only partly true. Lactose intolerance is an example. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_evolution/2012/10/evolution_of_lactose_tolerance_why_do_humans_keep_drinking_milk.html The ability to tolerate lactose into adulthood, and so be able to use fresh milk as an energy source, is a mutation that arose relatively late in human history, and even now it's not universal. The Wikipedia page on lactose intolerance is written as if lactose tolerance is the norm, but that's not necessarily true. If you happen to belong to an ethnic group where lactose tolerance is rare, you're unlikely to be able to develop a tolerance for it no matter how much of it you subject yourself to.

Lactose tolerance comes from keeping an enzyme through adulthood that normally animals lose after weaning.
There's no enzyme for "eating more meat than you're used to" though.

Doesn't mean there needs to be specific enzyme. According to 23andme, I have a set of genes that increases my chances of colon cancer by 10 fold. What that means is that they correlated these genes with a specific life outcome. It doesn't necessarily mean that they understand the functional relationship between these genes and the life outcome.

It could very well mean that my digestive track isn't designed to process meat quantities that many others could tolerate. If I eat too much meat, even if I eat enough fiber, I will get constipated. This is what the 23andme result could really mean. Constipation and colon cancer is highly prevalent throughout my extended family. Meat consumption may be the root cause of this.

Ethnicity based diet programs make sense to me, and I have a feeling this recent genetic discovery is only the tip of the iceberg.

leanjogreen18

In terms of taste - no
In terms of satiety - no
In terms of nutrition - no

In terms of energy - yes

mph323

dudebro200 wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

ccsernica wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

It's not the diet you're designed for, it's the one you're used to. Introduce a vastly different lifestyle and your body needs to adapt, and it will. You don't go to gym for the first time, try to go for the big ones right away, fail miserably, then leave saying your body isn't designed to lift stuff either. You adapt, the more gradually you do it the less uncomfortable it'll be.

This is only partly true. Lactose intolerance is an example. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_evolution/2012/10/evolution_of_lactose_tolerance_why_do_humans_keep_drinking_milk.html The ability to tolerate lactose into adulthood, and so be able to use fresh milk as an energy source, is a mutation that arose relatively late in human history, and even now it's not universal. The Wikipedia page on lactose intolerance is written as if lactose tolerance is the norm, but that's not necessarily true. If you happen to belong to an ethnic group where lactose tolerance is rare, you're unlikely to be able to develop a tolerance for it no matter how much of it you subject yourself to.

Lactose tolerance comes from keeping an enzyme through adulthood that normally animals lose after weaning.
There's no enzyme for "eating more meat than you're used to" though.

Doesn't mean there needs to be specific enzyme. According to 23andme, I have a set of genes that increases my chances of colon cancer by 10 fold. What that means is that they correlated these genes with a specific life outcome. It doesn't necessarily mean that they understand the functional relationship between these genes and the life outcome.

It could very well mean that my digestive track isn't designed to process meat quantities that many others could tolerate. If I eat too much meat, even if I eat enough fiber, I will get constipated. This is what the 23andme result could really mean. Constipation and colon cancer is highly prevalent throughout my extended family. Meat consumption may be the root cause of this.

Ethnicity based diet programs make sense to me, and I have a feeling this recent genetic discovery is only the tip of the iceberg.

This is enlightening, and I mean this sincerely. The results of genetic testing can be terrifying. The outcome is often a list of genetic combinations associated with shortened lifespans and fatal diseases, but the information isn't specific enough to use to create a lifestyle plan to avoid or mitigate the risks. Even knowing that correlation isn't the same as causation isn't necessarily helpful because, well, the genie's out of the bottle and the potential is always there at the back of your mind, whether or not the information is useful on a personal as opposed to a population level.

The best you can do is experiment with what works for you, observe what may or may not work for other family members, and beyond that understand that there are more things in life that are out of our control than within it. I find that for me, letting go of the need to control the uncontrollable is the only way I can get up every morning and move on with my life. I hope you find your own way.