Vinegar and lowering GI

animatorswearbras

...Or any acetic acid.

I've had a look in the forums and couldn't find a related post asking this question just people asking if this will aid weight loss (which I'm not asking)

Actually this is a serious question for those on GI diets apparently adding vinegar lowers the GL of a meal according to a few studies* and increases satiety when added to a meal (although further reading suggests this only works on complex starches rather than refined sugar), I'm also wondering if that's why the whole ACV fad has started, it might actually be beneficial to some who are insulin resistant and maybe not the snakeoil remedy people assume?

I've recently found out that I am insulin resistant due to PCOS and have been looking into low GI diets on my doctors advice and came across the vinegar study (it can be any acetic acid though)

Has anyone with diabetes, pre-diabetes or PCOS found that this has aided them?

* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16015276

(No doubt I'll get a bit of snark, I'm not an idiot nor a fad chaser but I thought it was worthy of discussion since there seems to be some documented evidence of success in clinical trials and most of these threads just end up in a flame war with little rational debate)

JohnnyPenso

Good thing you added that last bit although it'll probably up the snark level a notch or two anyway

animatorswearbras

JohnnyPenso wrote: »

Good thing you added that last bit although it'll probably up the snark level a notch or two anyway

I did hover over the "post discussion" button for about five minutes wondering what unholy kitten storm I'm about to unleash in the persuit of an intelligent rational debate about a peer reviewed clinical trial, because it has the word vinegar in it I imagine this thread will go to *kitten*.

SashaQ1381

I do not believe I have GI issues. But I did have some inexplicable problems in that area for many years that went away with ACV. And it also took care of my gassy problems and tiredness.

It is not an easy thing to drink. I started using it twice (rarely thrice) a day in Nov 2013. I stopped for long periods of time in between and went back to it. Whenever I was not using it, my problems came back but not as strong as the last time and so on.

It is absolutely true that it satiates you. In fact, ACV is the ONLY thing that has worked for me that I simply CAN NOT eat no matter how tasty the food is or smells. Once my body is done, it's done. There is no question about overeating at all.

During my pregnancy, I was also taking my blood sugar tests every morning even though I did not have diabetes but I could never be too careful. And every night that I had ACV, my blood sugar level was optimal! And whenever I didn't, it was a HUGE difference.

A great side-effect for me has been that it really cleared up my skin. I use it topically as well (rarely) so I do believe it is more of an inside job.

nvmomketo

Some with IR find taking it in the evening before bed can help lower your FBG levels. Wine will do this too by affecting GNG. I have not found it helped me.

For weight loss, I doubt it would do anything.

Many with PCOS find LCHF diets help reverse their IR. Try the Low Carber Daily MFP forum and you'll find a number with IR using LCHF successfully. Good luck.

animatorswearbras

SashaQ1381 wrote: »

A great side-effect for me has been that it really cleared up my skin. I use it topically as well (rarely) so I do believe it is more of an inside job.

Ah that is interesting, I do have crap skin.

nvmomketo wrote: »

Some with IR find taking it in the evening before bed can help lower your FBG levels. Wine will do this too by affecting GNG. I have not found it helped me.

For weight loss, I doubt it would do anything.

Many with PCOS find LCHF diets help reverse their IR. Try the Low Carber Daily MFP forum and you'll find a number with IR using LCHF successfully. Good luck.

Yes I've looked into Keto although it seems a bit extreme since I'm quite a carb monster (low GI seemed a better compromise for me although I could be wrong), my doctor has also offered me Metformin but I'd prefer to see if I can reverse IR with diet and weight loss before opting for medication (My BMI's technically in the high end of the "healthy range" but she'd like to see me lose another 15 pounds... and so would I)

I will definitely go to the forum though. Thankyou for the advice. I'm sure vinegar is one of those things that only works for some (maybe its just correlation and has no effect, I don't know), I'm just on a bit of an information collecting mission at the moment and see what I think I have a realistic chance of sticking to long term.

Thanks again.

stealthq

The good thing is that it is easy to trial on yourself if you check your blood glucose before and after eating.

There was another similar study - looked it up a couple of weeks ago because dad thought he'd try it for his blood sugar which is high normal. That one posited that the results were due to the acetic acid keeping stomach contents a bit more acidic and delaying stomach emptying. In other words, you get the same effect as when you have a mixed macro meal, which to me sounds like a much more pleasant way to go about it even though I love vinegary foods.

animatorswearbras

stealthq wrote: »

The good thing is that it is easy to trial on yourself if you check your blood glucose before and after eating.

There was another similar study - looked it up a couple of weeks ago because dad thought he'd try it for his blood sugar which is high normal. That one posited that the results were due to the acetic acid keeping stomach contents a bit more acidic and delaying stomach emptying. In other words, you get the same effect as when you have a mixed macro meal, which to me sounds like a much more pleasant way to go about it even though I love vinegary foods.

This is probably sensible, to be fair I wonder about the adverse effects of consuming excessive acid would have on your teeth too. I wouldn't start taking vinegar neat anyway just wondered if used as a dressing/ingredient it might negate any spikes from a carb loaded high GI meal. Thanks for the comment, I think the best approach for me may just be to lower my carbs and opt for lower GI options when I do have carbs. (basically nixing white potato and refined white bread from my diet.)

mjbnj0001

Interesting topic and interesting questions.

I'm a big guy, and older, so besides weight, I do worry about diabetes, although I do not have that.

1. My wife gave me an intro visit to a nutritionist for Christmas, and I've continued for the monthly followups so far. I've been probing him for the "where's the science?" behind the various suggestions he makes. His philosophy is "'lower GI, lower GL' as a first step, then we'll see what's next," and, BTW, doesn't believe in calorie-counting. I resist this, being a devout MFP logger for CICO tracking. Lower-GI, lower-GL "sounds" effective, but is barely usable - most GI/GL data comes from Australia (and I entirely respect the folks down under) and related mainly to Australian brands, but if you're cooking from scratch here in the USA, the list of foods with good GI/GL data is pretty sparse. I'm building a database spreadsheet so that I can cross-foot my MFP with gradually-accumulated GI/GL data for tracking. The jury's still out, although I have come down a couple of pounds. His "what's next" is a presumption of some sort of inflammatory response keeping the weight on.

2. In my digging around for GI/GL data, I've come across a few notes on vinegar (and other acids) lowering GI. I'll have to study that clinical report, thanks for the link. I worry, in nutrition discussions, that there are more "facts" talked about than are known, LOL. In the meantime, I made a "french-style" potato salad this weekend for our outdoor grilling season kickoff, hoping that effect was a real thing (multicolored fingerling potatoes, vinegar-based dressing, lots of herbs). It may or may not have lowered the potatoes' GI, but it was good.

3. I have encountered references that other foods in the meal might also combine to impact (lowering) the effective GL. Otherwise, most of the theory I've read has a simple addition (GL of food 'A' + GL of food 'B' + ...). So it might be a complex case when considering a whole meal. Since it takes human subject experimenting, real facts come slow in this field, and I feel somewhat frustrated. It's been a couple of decades since the "GI" thesis was published.

4. The nutritionist recommended lots of lemon water. I took this up, then noticed my teeth getting sensitive, so I cut back. In discussing this with my dentist (regular visit), I was told that it takes about 20 minutes or so for saliva to neutralize acids in your mouth, so sipping lemon juice all day is worse than just drinking it down, relative to your teeth.

Good luck in your efforts.

animatorswearbras

Brilliant thankyou for your insight mjbnj0001 I have come across this fairly comprehensive database but I'm from the UK so again may be about as useful to you as the Australian one

http://www.diogenes-eu.org/GI-Database/Default.htm

The GI numbers on their own spun me for a bit, (It has butter as 70 on here for example) until I read more about GL being an important (if not more important) factor, and how they came to "awarding" certain GI numbers. It does seem an incredibly complex mathematical formula to work out the GI of meals and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of accessible information for the layman.

cwolfman13

animatorswearbras wrote: »

...Or any acetic acid.

I've had a look in the forums and couldn't find a related post asking this question just people asking if this will aid weight loss (which I'm not asking)

Actually this is a serious question for those on GI diets apparently adding vinegar lowers the GL of a meal according to a few studies* and increases satiety when added to a meal (although further reading suggests this only works on complex starches rather than refined sugar), I'm also wondering if that's why the whole ACV fad has started, it might actually be beneficial to some who are insulin resistant and maybe not the snakeoil remedy people assume?

I've recently found out that I am insulin resistant due to PCOS and have been looking into low GI diets on my doctors advice and came across the vinegar study (it can be any acetic acid though)

Has anyone with diabetes, pre-diabetes or PCOS found that this has aided them?

* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16015276

(No doubt I'll get a bit of snark, I'm not an idiot nor a fad chaser but I thought it was worthy of discussion since there seems to be some documented evidence of success in clinical trials and most of these threads just end up in a flame war with little rational debate)

I don't think you will because there's actually solid science...it's really the only thing in regards to ACV, etc that is backed by any kind of science. You'd only get snark if you were doing shots of it because it melts fat..

animatorswearbras

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I don't think you will because there's actually solid science...it's really the only thing in regards to ACV, etc that is backed by any kind of science. You'd only get snark if you were doing shots of it because it melts fat..

Sure, but I did look through the forums to see if there was a question already asked and some of the threads had hundreds of replies saying the exact same thing to the point someone will probably just leave MFP (usually a newbie who's just set up an account and wondering out loud on the forums), I do wonder if certain subjects become untouchable, I've been around MFP long enough to see the forum equivalent of a ritualistic public execution on here usually once a week and I genuinely nearly didn't post.

psuLemon

animatorswearbras wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

I don't think you will because there's actually solid science...it's really the only thing in regards to ACV, etc that is backed by any kind of science. You'd only get snark if you were doing shots of it because it melts fat..

Sure, but I did look through the forums to see if there was a question already asked and some of the threads had hundreds of replies saying the exact same thing to the point someone will probably just leave MFP (usually a newbie who's just set up an account and wondering out loud on the forums), I do wonder if certain subjects become untouchable, I've been around MFP long enough to see the forum equivalent of a ritualistic public execution on here usually once a week and I genuinely nearly didn't post.

I think it's how you approach the question. Most want it to accelerate weight loss while yours is about improve BG. Looking at the below, it does seem like ACV could support the improved control of BG.

"Vinegar appears to be effective at suppressing the speed at which glucose enters the blood, and with that lowers the peak glucose and insulin secretion. If measured acutely, there is a large (31.4%-40%) decrease in blood glucose levels,[4][5] but after 120min the overall exposure is the same.[6] It is a slowing effect, not a reducing effect. That being said, this slowing may be beneficial in improving insulin sensitivity in diabetics.[7]"

https://examine.com/nutrition/does-vinegar-increase-metabolism/