TDEE and weight gain for an Athlete

Theo166

I'm confused how TDEE works for an athlete and need some expert input. This is an academic question, not personal. I'm thinking of using weight gain as an exercise for Middle School math.

Assume a beginning Sumo wrestler who wants to get in match form.
Height: 185 cm / 6'1"
Start weight: 100 kg / 220 lbs
Goal weight: 150 kg / 330 lbs

I got these from one of the tools, let's assume they are OK
BMR: 2,021 calories
TDEE: 3,840 calories (for Athlete option)
Exercise: 0 calories?

Assuming 'calories-in' of 8,000, this would create a TDEE surplus of 4,160 calories.
Assuming 3,500 calories / lb, this would mean a weight gain of 1.2 lbs/day (3,500 cal/lb)

Formula: y = 1.2x + 220
330 = 1.2x + 220
With these assumptions it would take Mr Sumo 92 days to reach 330 lbs.

QUESTION: Are specific exercise calories added on top of Athlete TDEE or are they assumed to be included? I want to reasonably represent the scenario but perfection is not required

usmcmp

There are a few different TDEE calculators out there and for athletes selecting a calculator that goes off of effort per hour of the day would be better due to the variance in effort levels and training hours for athletes. Calculators that have a blanket activity level are probably not appropriate for a sumo wrestler (although I know they practice for hours).

Theo166

usmcmp wrote: »

There are a few different TDEE calculators out there and for athletes selecting a calculator that goes off of effort per hour of the day would be better due to the variance in effort levels and training hours for athletes. Calculators that have a blanket activity level are probably not appropriate for a sumo wrestler (although I know they practice for hours).

I'm not really clear on what you are saying, do you have a link to such a calculator?

Putting my OP another way, does TDEE only include general metabolic burn, but not the actual activity calories burned?

usmcmp

TDEE=BMR+non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT)+Thermic effect of food (TEF)+Exercise

Did your calculator ask for body fat % and did you provide it? That would impact the BMR given, such as this one:
http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

This one tries to accurately predict calories by having you input NEAT and exercise:
https://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced

Ultimately someone who has higher than average lean mass and performs exercise for multiple hours per day to accomplish elite athletic performance is going to have to do some trial and error to determine TDEE.

PAV8888

Theo166 wrote: »

I'm confused how TDEE works for an athlete and need some expert input. This is an academic question, not personal. I'm thinking of using weight gain as an exercise for Middle School math.

Assume a beginning Sumo wrestler who wants to get in match form.
Height: 185 cm / 6'1"
Start weight: 100 kg / 220 lbs
Goal weight: 150 kg / 330 lbs

I got these from one of the tools, let's assume they are OK
BMR: 2,021 calories
TDEE: 3,840 calories (for Athlete option)
Exercise: 0 calories?

Assuming 'calories-in' of 8,000, this would create a TDEE surplus of 4,160 calories.
Assuming 3,500 calories / lb, this would mean a weight gain of 1.2 lbs/day (3,500 cal/lb)

Formula: y = 1.2x + 220
330 = 1.2x + 220
With these assumptions it would take Mr Sumo 92 days to reach 330 lbs.

QUESTION: Are specific exercise calories added on top of Athlete TDEE or are they assumed to be included? I want to reasonably represent the scenario but perfection is not required

I would chose a different example. When your weight changes both your lean and non lean mass change. your calories burned changed too. Your formula is not capturing that.

Theo166

PAV8888 wrote: »

Theo166 wrote: »

I'm confused how TDEE works for an athlete and need some expert input. This is an academic question, not personal. I'm thinking of using weight gain as an exercise for Middle School math.

Assume a beginning Sumo wrestler who wants to get in match form.
Height: 185 cm / 6'1"
Start weight: 100 kg / 220 lbs
Goal weight: 150 kg / 330 lbs

I got these from one of the tools, let's assume they are OK
BMR: 2,021 calories
TDEE: 3,840 calories (for Athlete option)
Exercise: 0 calories?

Assuming 'calories-in' of 8,000, this would create a TDEE surplus of 4,160 calories.
Assuming 3,500 calories / lb, this would mean a weight gain of 1.2 lbs/day (3,500 cal/lb)

Formula: y = 1.2x + 220
330 = 1.2x + 220
With these assumptions it would take Mr Sumo 92 days to reach 330 lbs.

QUESTION: Are specific exercise calories added on top of Athlete TDEE or are they assumed to be included? I want to reasonably represent the scenario but perfection is not required

I would chose a different example. When your weight changes both your lean and non lean mass change. your calories burned changed too. Your formula is not capturing that.

In the real world very few scenarios work out with a straight linear equation. The goal here is to make assumptions, work through the conversions, make a table, graph it and create an equation. A basic physics class will ignore wind resistance when calculating the speed of a falling object because that complication isn't required when introducing the concepts. Using cars and distance gets old, and they don't even travel at a constant speed.

I've heard Sumo Wrestlers can eat 10k calories/day, which seemed like it would give far too much of a surplus. Thus I wanted to check my basic assumptions.

usmcmp

Theo166 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

Theo166 wrote: »

I'm confused how TDEE works for an athlete and need some expert input. This is an academic question, not personal. I'm thinking of using weight gain as an exercise for Middle School math.

Assume a beginning Sumo wrestler who wants to get in match form.
Height: 185 cm / 6'1"
Start weight: 100 kg / 220 lbs
Goal weight: 150 kg / 330 lbs

I got these from one of the tools, let's assume they are OK
BMR: 2,021 calories
TDEE: 3,840 calories (for Athlete option)
Exercise: 0 calories?

Assuming 'calories-in' of 8,000, this would create a TDEE surplus of 4,160 calories.
Assuming 3,500 calories / lb, this would mean a weight gain of 1.2 lbs/day (3,500 cal/lb)

Formula: y = 1.2x + 220
330 = 1.2x + 220
With these assumptions it would take Mr Sumo 92 days to reach 330 lbs.

QUESTION: Are specific exercise calories added on top of Athlete TDEE or are they assumed to be included? I want to reasonably represent the scenario but perfection is not required

I would chose a different example. When your weight changes both your lean and non lean mass change. your calories burned changed too. Your formula is not capturing that.

In the real world very few scenarios work out with a straight linear equation. The goal here is to make assumptions, work through the conversions, make a table, graph it and create an equation. A basic physics class will ignore wind resistance when calculating the speed of a falling object because that complication isn't required when introducing the concepts. Using cars and distance gets old, and they don't even travel at a constant speed.

I've heard Sumo Wrestlers can eat 10k calories/day, which seemed like it would give far too much of a surplus. Thus I wanted to check my basic assumptions.

An average sumo wrestler is 6'1" (men 5'8" and under are not allowed) and 330 pounds.

http://www.gq.com/story/sumo-diet-of-byamba-ulambayar

ccsernica

Not directly related to your question, but as probably the only sumo fan in these forums this thread caught my eye.

Odd as it may seem, your numbers are probably too small. A sumo wrestler eats more like 10,000-20,000 cal/day. But then, he also spends at least 5 hours/day training, often more, in a vigorous combination of strength, cardio, and flexibility. Beginning sumo wrestlers are extremely busy outside training hours as well, since their duties include serving the higher ranked wrestlers. Any errands or local travel they must do is either on foot or on bicycle, since active sumo wrestlers are prohibited from driving. So for the amount they eat (and beginners sometimes just get the leftovers after the more senior wrestlers have eaten their fill) their calorie surplus is much smaller than you might think.

Theo166

ccsernica wrote: »

Not directly related to your question, but as probably the only sumo fan in these forums this thread caught my eye.

Odd as it may seem, your numbers are probably too small. A sumo wrestler eats more like 10,000-20,000 cal/day. But then, he also spends at least 5 hours/day training, often more, in a vigorous combination of strength, cardio, and flexibility. Beginning sumo wrestlers are extremely busy outside training hours as well, since their duties include serving the higher ranked wrestlers. Any errands or local travel they must do is either on foot or on bicycle, since active sumo wrestlers are prohibited from driving. So for the amount they eat (and beginners sometimes just get the leftovers after the more senior wrestlers have eaten their fill) their calorie surplus is much smaller than you might think.

That's in line with what I thought. For simplicity I may just assume a TDEE of 8,000 and 10,000 calories in. This would give a 2,000 surplus which is easy to extrapolate into weight gain.