Normal People

S6Kev

I have hit my weight loss goal and now want to build some muscle (I understand this may involve me putting on some weight) so started to look into things a bit. Any article or forum I read seems to talk about athletes or film stars eating 5000 calories a day, taking this supplement and that supplement, going to the gym 3 times a day, bench pressing 500kg but what about us normal people?

How much must I train?

Im currently a 12hour a day shift work, with getting ready for work and travelling times this turns into a 14hour day before I have even had a rest or done any house hold chores so I have no weekly gym rota and during my 4 days at work I dont even step inside a gym, therefore I can normally train 3 days a week (these days change from one week to the next) and are always consecutive days. During these days I dont have the time to visit the gym on 3 times a day with just the 1 session a day being my limit. I understand these are not ideal conditions but can I still get good results?

What training?

Again I have read that low reps, heavy weights is the way to go but is this all reletive? I mean I cant bench press 500kg but is 50kg too little? Its heavy for me but will it have the same results or would I be better off building muscle some other way first of all?

What to eat and supplement?

The food side of things Im not too worried about at the moment, I eat health and I certainly dont see the need to start eating 5000 calories aday but what about supplements? I have read alot about whey protein and creatine, could these and should these be used by someone like myself who is just starting and rather sporadic weights programme or again are these for people at the real high end of their programmes?

Any advice on all or any of the above subjects would be great and of course please advise on anything else you believe would be benificial.

Thanks

JamesDanek

I will have a go...

All the Stuff you have read is Broscience. Yeah supplements and thrice daily gym trips and 5000 calories a day will do something for you if you have the capacity to do it but you like me and all the other people on here have normal daily lives so ignore the vast majority of it.

In your situation i would suggest

1. if you can only train on consecutive days then do an upper body/ lower body split and alternate. Exact lifts to do will no doubt be forthcoming. I compound lift all body with a day rest between workouts so I don't want to suggest what you could do myself.

2. Heavy lifting is relative. If 50kg is your upper limit then that is heavy lifting. As long as you are challenging yourself you are lifting heavy.

3. If you want to gain mass you need to eat a surplus. But it doesn't have to be massive 300 - 500 calories over your TDEE is ample any more and you are going to be storing fat. Supplements are just that good food should be your first priority.

The whole process is about adjusting and learning what works for you. I find when doing research that if its going to cost money from the outset or the claims are unbelievable (get monster ripped in 4 weeks for just £250 for example) ignore it.

S6Kev

1. if you can only train on consecutive days then do an upper body/ lower body split and alternate. Exact lifts to do will no doubt be forthcoming. I compound lift all body with a day rest between workouts so I don't want to suggest what you could do myself.

Thanks for you answers. Just to pick up on this a bit. When I go to the gym I normally exercise 2 parts of my body i.e biceps and chest one day then legs and back the next for instance but by doing this I am ineffect only exercising each part of my body once maybe twice a week and to get any real gains Im concerned this isnt enough, yes I leave the gym and my muscles are burning but that will be them done for another week. This sort of brought me onto my other point of whey protein and creatine, will these help me lift heavier weights during my sessions and really build muscle better?

JamesDanek

Ok. Without being too specific you would do well to create 2 routines one which is say arms, chest and Abs focused the other Back and leg focused.

In your 3 day window do the first then the second then the first again over the three days then the following week do the second then the first then the second and repeat.

Try not to do isolation exercises (like bicep curls) and focus more on the compound moves that rope in more muscle (like bench press)

As Far as the Supplements are concerned Whey and Creatine are there for recovery not to stimulate the session. You can get pre-workouts but I have never used them ( i do take three caffeine tablets about half an hour before i get to the gym though).

Once or twice a week is all you actually really need to start making gains. the rest you give the muscles is where the mass is added. Some people can over-train and make massive gains BUT you would need to be in the gym 5 days a week and you dont have that luxury.


Plus your would always ache and that is no fun at all.

wannabpiper

Just got two books - not sure if I'm interested in lifting weights or my own body resistance - but they both look really promising and would answer all of your questions.

1. Body By You by Mark Lauren
2. New Rules of Lifting by Lou Schuler

Best wishes!

bumblebums

Pick up the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. And stop obsessing with benching. There's more to the world of strength training than that. Starting Strength will teach you correct technique (the main focus of the book) and get you started on a structured lifting routine.

Rippetoe gives some nutrition advice at the end of the book, which amounts to GOMAD (gallon of milk a day). You can certainly try that if you can stomach that much milk. If you cannot, I would make sure you get sufficient good quality protein (1 g per lb of LBM, at least) and eat at a slight surplus, starting with maybe 100 to 200 kcal a day of extra food.

bumblebums

1. if you can only train on consecutive days then do an upper body/ lower body split and alternate. Exact lifts to do will no doubt be forthcoming. I compound lift all body with a day rest between workouts so I don't want to suggest what you could do myself.

Thanks for you answers. Just to pick up on this a bit. When I go to the gym I normally exercise 2 parts of my body i.e biceps and chest one day then legs and back the next for instance but by doing this I am ineffect only exercising each part of my body once maybe twice a week and to get any real gains Im concerned this isnt enough, yes I leave the gym and my muscles are burning but that will be them done for another week. This sort of brought me onto my other point of whey protein and creatine, will these help me lift heavier weights during my sessions and really build muscle better?

You do not need to split your training by body part. That is how advanced bodybuilders train. Someone who cannot do a basic barbell squat and deadlift has no business doing a split training routine. Start with the so-called "big three" lifts--described in excruciating detail in the book I mentioned in my previous post.

And do not obsess with creatine or other supplements. Whey protein is helpful if you are having trouble getting enough protein from other foods, but it isn't strictly speaking required. To your other question, lifting three days a week is sufficient. But you should find a way to not lift back-to-back--give yourself at least one rest day between lifting days. If you are working at the edge of your capacity, you need recovery time.

JoRocka

starting strength or new rules for lifting

go from there

tsimblist

How much must I train?

What training?

I am currently weight lifting twice a week (Mon, Thur) with my workouts lasting about 2 hours. I was looking around for options to change things up and ran across this:
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/12/18/pavel-8020-powerlifting-and-how-to-add-110-pounds-to-your-lifts/

I like the idea of the focus and simplicity and the short workout. Just haven't figured out how to arrange my running and cycling around this approach yet.

In your case, you might try the heavy squat, heavy bench press, heavy deadlift days for your three workouts and see how that goes.

0OneTwo3

How much must I train?

What training?

follow one of these programs: starting strength or stronglifts 5x5 (they are both 3x a week and about 1h) for a few months to build strength then either up the reps to 10
and stay on one of those or switch to a bodybuilding program or "5/3/1 boring but big variant"

mobility work, stretching, warm ups and cool downs. and good form, it's more important than weight!

What to eat and supplement?

i recomment no supps. most are a scam and the rest is not worth the money. micronutrients should all come from food. only if you really hate fish you could take fishoil capsules. you can take creatine but you don't need it really.

nutrition: maintenance cals +200-400kcal aim for a gain of 0,7-1lb per week not more. protein: 0.8-1g per lb of lean body mass. fat: 0.5-0.7 per lb of lean mass. rest is carbs.
lean meat, fish, eggs, poultry, polyunsaturated fats, complex carbs, greens, fruits. keep protein powder to a minimum.

the rest is patience

DocMarr

Just got two books - not sure if I'm interested in lifting weights or my own body resistance - but they both look really promising and would answer all of your questions.

1. Body By You by Mark Lauren
2. New Rules of Lifting by Lou Schuler

Best wishes!

Ooo thanks for the recommendation - I just went on to Amazon and looked this up and bought the Body by You. Looks exactly what I was looking for.

mikejholmes

Pick up the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. And stop obsessing with benching. There's more to the world of strength training than that. Starting Strength will teach you correct technique (the main focus of the book) and get you started on a structured lifting routine.

Rippetoe gives some nutrition advice at the end of the book, which amounts to GOMAD (gallon of milk a day). You can certainly try that if you can stomach that much milk. If you cannot, I would make sure you get sufficient good quality protein (1 g per lb of LBM, at least) and eat at a slight surplus, starting with maybe 100 to 200 kcal a day of extra food.

GOMAD is only for skinny kids. Go onto his board, and he will emphatically tell you that he never said everyone should do that. Fat kids should not drink a GOMAD. 40+ year olds should not drink a GOMDAD. Other than that -- perfect info.

mikejholmes

You do not need to split your training by body part. That is how advanced bodybuilders train. Someone who cannot do a basic barbell squat and deadlift has no business doing a split training routine. Start with the so-called "big three" lifts--described in excruciating detail in the book I mentioned in my previous post.

And do not obsess with creatine or other supplements. Whey protein is helpful if you are having trouble getting enough protein from other foods, but it isn't strictly speaking required. To your other question, lifting three days a week is sufficient. But you should find a way to not lift back-to-back--give yourself at least one rest day between lifting days. If you are working at the edge of your capacity, you need recovery time.

SO nice to hear from someone who knows some basic info!
OP -- Pay attention!

Although, Rippetoe describes 5 exercises -- you left out the OHP and Power Clean. The OHP especially is important to keep balanced with the bench press to avoid shoulder problems.

dmpizza

My trainer wants me to eat 3 eggs for breakfast.
I don't, but that's all he asked me to do.

I don't think you need anything close to 5000 calories unless you are in 300 or Wolverine.

mikejholmes

One other thing -- the book Starting Strength by Rippetoe will give you detailed instructions on how to pick YOUR starting weights. (Basically work up to what is heavy for you, work 3 sets across, and call it a day).

Get the book.

Really.

timbrom

Pick up the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. And stop obsessing with benching. There's more to the world of strength training than that. Starting Strength will teach you correct technique (the main focus of the book) and get you started on a structured lifting routine.

Rippetoe gives some nutrition advice at the end of the book, which amounts to GOMAD (gallon of milk a day). You can certainly try that if you can stomach that much milk. If you cannot, I would make sure you get sufficient good quality protein (1 g per lb of LBM, at least) and eat at a slight surplus, starting with maybe 100 to 200 kcal a day of extra food.

In addition to Starting Strength, get Practical Programming for Strength Training, also by Mark Rippetoe. That will help greatly with doing any modification you need to do to fit into your work schedule.

For nutrition, read this: http://thefitcoach.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/584/

bumblebums

You do not need to split your training by body part. That is how advanced bodybuilders train. Someone who cannot do a basic barbell squat and deadlift has no business doing a split training routine. Start with the so-called "big three" lifts--described in excruciating detail in the book I mentioned in my previous post.

And do not obsess with creatine or other supplements. Whey protein is helpful if you are having trouble getting enough protein from other foods, but it isn't strictly speaking required. To your other question, lifting three days a week is sufficient. But you should find a way to not lift back-to-back--give yourself at least one rest day between lifting days. If you are working at the edge of your capacity, you need recovery time.

SO nice to hear from someone who knows some basic info!
OP -- Pay attention!

Although, Rippetoe describes 5 exercises -- you left out the OHP and Power Clean. The OHP especially is important to keep balanced with the bench press to avoid shoulder problems.

Thanks I agree that the press is an important compound lift and should be part of anyone's basic strength workout--though in my observation at the gym, it tends to be one of the two lifts (along with the bench press) that most guys and even gals will do on their own, without prompting. (With dumbbells, of course, rather than a barbell.)

Rippetoe hasn't had very much success in getting people to train the power clean along with the standard power lifts. I like it, but it is an intimidating lift to learn on one's own. I think part of the appeal of Strong Lifts is that it does not include the power clean but does include barbell rows, which train biceps--something that most people want to train because you can see them in the mirror. Rip is very clear that if you are going to do anything in addition to the barbell exercises, it should be pull-ups.

So, back to OP:

* squats
* deadlifts
* bench press
* strict (overhead) press
* pull-ups
* power clean

That's all the strength training a beginner would need, and plenty get by without the last one. But seriously, just get the book. It's not expensive, and it is something you will go back to again and again to re-read if you are serious about getting stronger.

phjorg1

My trainer wants me to eat 3 eggs for breakfast.
I don't, but that's all he asked me to do.

I don't think you need anything close to 5000 calories unless you are in 300 or Wolverine.

I'm an intermediate strength level. I need 5k calories a day easy when I'm actively trying to gain weight.

Pro's will be hitting 10k a day.

For a beginner though, ya 5k would be a bit much.