Has a study like this been done yet?
rybo
Posts: 5,424 Member
Basically measuring the amount of surplus calories on the speed at which muscle is built.
2 groups of people following the same exercise plan. One group eats at a 250 calorie surplus, one at a 500 calorie surplus. At the end of X weeks does each group gain the same amount of muscle? Macros, meal timing, supplements, etc kept identical for each group.
2 groups of people following the same exercise plan. One group eats at a 250 calorie surplus, one at a 500 calorie surplus. At the end of X weeks does each group gain the same amount of muscle? Macros, meal timing, supplements, etc kept identical for each group.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23679146
LBM gain was the same in both groups. However, the group with a much larger surplus ended up getting a lot more fat.
In other words, having a huge surplus does not mean faster muscle gains. Stick with a smallish surplus for leaner gains... within reason of course... doing only +100 kcal above maintenance is kinda pointless considering the margin of error, etc.
For a novice trainee, 1.0-1.5% body weight gain per month or 2 lb per month is typically what I see recommended.
(Also this assumes natty / no drugs)5 -
How could macros be identical if calorie surpluses are not? The only way would be if one group of people consisted of smaller people than the other, which doesn't seem representative?2
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Correct. One didn't eat 80% protein while the other ate 25%.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23679146
LBM gain was the same in both groups. However, the group with a much larger surplus ended up getting a lot more fat.
In other words, having a huge surplus does not mean faster muscle gains. Stick with a smallish surplus for leaner gains... within reason of course... doing only +100 kcal above maintenance is kinda pointless considering the margin of error, etc.
For a novice trainee, 1.0-1.5% body weight gain per month or 2 lb per month is typically what I see recommended.
(Also this assumes natty / no drugs)
Thanks!0 -
Correct. One didn't eat 80% protein while the other ate 25%.
Right, makes sense now. Haha.
I need a nap. Clearly.0 -
This is interesting.
I always think.. I am almost done running an 8 month bulk, gained about 12 lbs or so. I wonder if I had done the same bulk in 6 months or less, gaining the same amount over a shorter period of time (still within a reasonable rate to reduce fat gains), would I have gained the same amount of muscle. Or did I gain more muscle vs fat because it was stretched out longer.0 -
It is my understanding that muscle gain has a "hard limit" so assuming you are consuming enough calories to gain the LBM, anything above that will be fat gain.
The study above would support this I believe. I know you're after studies/science but in practise it comes down to if you can afford to gain fat and how much LBM you can gain (acknowledging that this amount reduces as years of training increases).
Obviously this is based on natural lifters. Enhanced lifters will be able to partition and utilise calories more effectively so a larger surplus would result in more LBM gain.0 -
Basically measuring the amount of surplus calories on the speed at which muscle is built.
2 groups of people following the same exercise plan. One group eats at a 250 calorie surplus, one at a 500 calorie surplus. At the end of X weeks does each group gain the same amount of muscle? Macros, meal timing, supplements, etc kept identical for each group.
That would be interesting. The problems I see from this would be finding people that have the same fitness level and, muscle mass and body fat percentages to begin with; otherwise all of those variables will make it impossible to come to any conclusions.1 -
mommarnurse wrote: »Basically measuring the amount of surplus calories on the speed at which muscle is built.
2 groups of people following the same exercise plan. One group eats at a 250 calorie surplus, one at a 500 calorie surplus. At the end of X weeks does each group gain the same amount of muscle? Macros, meal timing, supplements, etc kept identical for each group.
That would be interesting. The problems I see from this would be finding people that have the same fitness level and, muscle mass and body fat percentages to begin with; otherwise all of those variables will make it impossible to come to any conclusions.
IMHO, It's also like trying to thread a needle while on a galloping horse with such a minuscule surplus. If your calculations are even a little off you might find yourself often in a deficit with only a margin of 250 - while the person with the higher margin has less worry about a miscalculation halting those gains.
But then again, my activity levels and my daily routines can change quite a bit from week to week. Maybe others have a much more rigid life structure.
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That's very interesting - I'll have to look at the details when I get to a computer. The devil is alway in the details.
Here's another perspective. Three groups eat a daily average calorie surplus of 1000 kcal. However participants eat either 47, 139 or 228 grams of protein per day.
Everyone gains weight. The low protein group has the lowest average weight gain (+3.71) and the high protein group gains the most weight (+6.51). However the average percentage of gained body fat were similar with all groups. Low protein group lost muscle (-0.70) and the standard and high protein groups gained muscle (+2.87 & +3.18).
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/11039930
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