How do squats even work?
ceiswyn
Posts: 2,256 Member
I have read many different articles on the technique. I have tried the advice of most of them. Every time, the same thing happens; I start off in the correct position, descend about two inches, and then have to choose between leaning forward, which I think I'm not supposed to do, or slowly falling over backward.
Am I misunderstanding how the exercise works? Am I allowed to lean forward after all? If not, how in heck does everyone else manage to avoid falling over backwards?! Or is this a problem with my mass distribution and shape (I'm literally the exact same shape as the fat broad in the BC comic strips, and additionally all my weight is in my thighs and hips)?
Help me do squats!
Am I misunderstanding how the exercise works? Am I allowed to lean forward after all? If not, how in heck does everyone else manage to avoid falling over backwards?! Or is this a problem with my mass distribution and shape (I'm literally the exact same shape as the fat broad in the BC comic strips, and additionally all my weight is in my thighs and hips)?
Help me do squats!
1
Replies
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It's fine to lean forward as long as your back remains neutral and the bar/center of mass is over the middle of your foot.4
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Consider doing goblet squats to form a base of strength and get a good feel. Or hire someone to help in person. Not necessarily a personal trainer, but someone that knows how to coach a squat.
You can post a form video too.2 -
@Mycophilia is correct. There are dozens of videos on YouTube about properly performing the squat.Mycophilia wrote: »It's fine to lean forward as long as your back remains neutral and the bar/center of mass is over the middle of your food.
"Neutral" in this instance means straight.
If I remember correctly, a whole chapter is devoted to squat form in Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training, 3rd edition.
Are you doing a high bar or low bar squat? That can have an impact on your balance and center of gravity.
Regardless of bar placement, my first guess is that the weight you are using is too heavy for good technique.
Make sure you can squat an empty 45 lb Olympic bar or even an empty 20 lb "standard, 1 inch" exercise bar with good form and work up from there.
For a more literal answer, they work wonderfully!
But not as good as a trap bar deadlift in my opinion, unless perhaps you are using a good safety squat bar.
[edit] Another issue I have seen is you do not have the necessary flexibility in your hips or ankles which is affecting your form.
This seems to be more common with older people who never took the time to stretch or previously spent most of their "exercise time" running.1 -
Google Bret Contreras1
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Are you doing your squats with no weights? for whatever reason I just can't do squats with no weights. I can't go down very far and also feel like I'll fall forward or backward.
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I'm trying to do simple bodyweight squats in order to get the technique right. My trainer gave me goblet squats to do with something to sit on at the bottom, but honestly I could do those all day. What I can't do is get any further down without going up on my toes, because with my feet flat I just can't get my weight far enough forward to avoid falling over backward.
If this is a muscular/technique problem, I want to work on it. If it's a laws of physics 'your teeny torso just cannot counterbalance your huge *kitten*' problem, then that's a different story!0 -
I have read many different articles on the technique. I have tried the advice of most of them. Every time, the same thing happens; I start off in the correct position, descend about two inches, and then have to choose between leaning forward, which I think I'm not supposed to do, or slowly falling over backward.
Am I misunderstanding how the exercise works? Am I allowed to lean forward after all? If not, how in heck does everyone else manage to avoid falling over backwards?! Or is this a problem with my mass distribution and shape (I'm literally the exact same shape as the fat broad in the BC comic strips, and additionally all my weight is in my thighs and hips)?
Help me do squats!
I'm going to assume that you are trying to do a bodyweight squat, not a variation using a barbell. I like both of these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72tfVCxlmZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R_17mEoIgw
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Yeah, sounds like a form issue. Try posting a side view video.
mind you, you really only need to just break parallel to get the benefits with a weighted squat.0 -
That is what I was referring to with flexibility.What I can't do is get any further down without going up on my toes, because with my feet flat I just can't get my weight far enough forward to avoid falling over backward.
I've even noticed this with older judo black belts who learned to compensate for it while executing o-goshi (major hip throw).
The toes thing is a dead giveaway that you need to work on the flexibility in your calves and ankles and that your balance is being impacted.
YouTube has some videos on good stretches.
I am not really patient enough to try to describe them but put the front of your foot/toes on something like a 25 lb plate with your heel on the floor and lean forward.
Practice yoga, t‘ai-chi ch‘uan or something to work on your balance as well.
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I'm trying to do simple bodyweight squats in order to get the technique right. My trainer gave me goblet squats to do with something to sit on at the bottom, but honestly I could do those all day. What I can't do is get any further down without going up on my toes, because with my feet flat I just can't get my weight far enough forward to avoid falling over backward.
If this is a muscular/technique problem, I want to work on it. If it's a laws of physics 'your teeny torso just cannot counterbalance your huge *kitten*' problem, then that's a different story!
You can also buy squat shoe's. Some say it is real good.1 -
Another issue I have seen is you do not have the necessary flexibility in your hips or ankles which is affecting your form.
This seems to be more common with older people who never took the time to stretch or previously spent most of their "exercise time" running.
Ah! This may be the fundamental issue. My ankles point really well, but they flex really badly. If squats require actual human ankle flexion, I may just have to give up and move on
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Another issue I have seen is you do not have the necessary flexibility in your hips or ankles which is affecting your form.
This seems to be more common with older people who never took the time to stretch or previously spent most of their "exercise time" running.
Ah! This may be the fundamental issue. My ankles point really well, but they flex really badly. If squats require actual human ankle flexion, I may just have to give up and move on
Don't give up. I have some suggestions in another post, above.0 -
I have read many different articles on the technique. I have tried the advice of most of them. Every time, the same thing happens; I start off in the correct position, descend about two inches, and then have to choose between leaning forward, which I think I'm not supposed to do, or slowly falling over backward.
Am I misunderstanding how the exercise works? Am I allowed to lean forward after all? If not, how in heck does everyone else manage to avoid falling over backwards?! Or is this a problem with my mass distribution and shape (I'm literally the exact same shape as the fat broad in the BC comic strips, and additionally all my weight is in my thighs and hips)?
Help me do squats!
I definitely lean forward, both with bodyweight and barbel squats. But I keep my head up and back straight. I did have to play around with foot position to get depth, although I can now get bum to floor in sumo, standard and narrow stance to start with I needed my feet slightly wider than shoulder width with toes turned out about 45 degrees.0 -
The toes thing is a dead giveaway that you need to work on the flexibility in your calves and ankles and that your balance is being impacted..
If I try to force my ankles to flex any further than they go naturally, there's a crunching pain at the front. I suspect better ankle flexion is not gonna happen!
I do do t'ai chi, so my general balance is pretty good; especially as practicing at home regularly involves having to stop suddenly with one foot in the air as a cat walks under it with a 'whatcha doin?' expression. Can always be worked on more, though 0 -
Another issue I have seen is you do not have the necessary flexibility in your hips or ankles which is affecting your form.
This seems to be more common with older people who never took the time to stretch or previously spent most of their "exercise time" running.
Ah! This may be the fundamental issue. My ankles point really well, but they flex really badly. If squats require actual human ankle flexion, I may just have to give up and move on
I agree. Don't give up. Work on your mobility in your ankles, it will help you overall in life.
In the mean time, you can slide a plate weight under your heels to help you with your balance. This will have a similar effect to squat shoes. The big 10 lbs plates (about an inch thick) will be enough. Try with that and see how you do.
Also, you can do box squats (where you touch down to something) without weight. It might help develop some muscle memory. 0 -
The toes thing is a dead giveaway that you need to work on the flexibility in your calves and ankles and that your balance is being impacted..
If I try to force my ankles to flex any further than they go naturally, there's a crunching pain at the front. I suspect better ankle flexion is not gonna happen!
I do do t'ai chi, so my general balance is pretty good; especially as practicing at home regularly involves having to stop suddenly with one foot in the air as a cat walks under it with a 'whatcha doin?' expression. Can always be worked on more, though
The toes raised above the heel stretch can help but you need to be consistent.
All I will say is that this is a form and flexibility issue which can be managed, with time.
My left ankle has been reconstructed and the Achilles tendon is artificial.
Some sort of plastic polymer, actually. Long story.
Let's just say there are some side-effects to fighting full-contact for almost 15 years.
I can still squat and deadlift with acceptable form after the surgeries. It just took perseverance and dedication.
If there is a structural issue with the foot, causing pain, then you probably need to see an Podiatrist or Orthopedist.
In the meantime you can put a block under your heels, but I personally would not do that until an pod/ortho says your feet and ankles are sound.
Also, someone qualified needs to monitor your form for a while if you are going to do this.
Pay a trainer who is experienced in various squat exercises to make sure you are doing it correctly before going full-bore on blocked/raised squats.
At the very least have them show you how they squat before signing up with them.
If they are not squatting with at least their bodyweight on the bar with a straight back and thighs parallel to the ground then they are not qualified to advise you and certainly do not pay them.
It is also important to remember that blocked squats will probably not contribute much to your "functional strength" because you will always be in an unnatural position instead of improving your mechanics.
This is in contrast with someone who has reasonable ankle flexibility.
Here are the magic questions:
Do you come up on your toes when getting out of a chair or off the toilet?
Do you habitually push off with your hands to rise from either of them?
If yes to either, then you may be heading for trouble if you don't address it.
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The toes thing is a dead giveaway that you need to work on the flexibility in your calves and ankles and that your balance is being impacted..
If I try to force my ankles to flex any further than they go naturally, there's a crunching pain at the front. I suspect better ankle flexion is not gonna happen!
I do do t'ai chi, so my general balance is pretty good; especially as practicing at home regularly involves having to stop suddenly with one foot in the air as a cat walks under it with a 'whatcha doin?' expression. Can always be worked on more, though
Do you have a board that you can put under your heels while squatting? That can help. Squat shoes are shoes with elevated heels, which reduces the amount of ankle flexion and makes it easier to squat lower. The higher the heel, the lower you can go. I'm not saying to run out and try it but I know that if I am wearing heels and have to squat for some reason (for me it's to get to the dog food in our pantry) it turns into a no effort super low squat without even thinking about it.1 -
A few tips. If you struggle with stability, widen your stance and try performing your squat using the wall as a guide - similar to a chair but to keep you from falling backwards. Also, weight should push through your heels and your knees shouldn't go forward past your toes. I agree, google videos. However, be cautious, some are horrible. Here's a nice one I found that has great tips. It begins showing bad technique and then corrective measures. Hope this helps and keep trying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-zp42gpbt8 2 -
I'll try the something-under-my-heels plan. Is squatting in kitten heels a thing?
I don't know how likely it is that I can improve the flexion in my ankles; I've been doing achilles rehabilitation stretches religiously for two years without making the slightest impact on the lock-crunch-ow that happens at the front of the joint (though at least I'm not getting pain at the back anymore!) However if there's a workaround it at least won't restrict me, and if it improves, it improves.
Thanks, all!2 -
Here is the magic questions:
Do you come up on your toes when getting out of a chair or off the toilet?
Do you frequently push off with your hands to rise from either of them?
If yes to either, then you may be heading for trouble if you don't address it.
No to both. I just lean forwards and then push straight up. Getting up is easy; getting down seems to be hard!0 -
For the record, a wedge under the feet is probably a better idea for you, for now than just a block under the heels.
Something supporting most of the foot, like an over-sized doorstop.
Toes toward the floor but a support under all of the foot. I've seen them in some places.
But again, this is not medical advice.1 -
Omg practice, practice, practice! I was SO frustrated at first that I couldn't squat properly. I took videos and just did it over and over with just the bar until I figured out my stance and how to lean back and balance without falling over. It sucked at first.0
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try using a trx for assistance to keep from leaning too far forward, this will help you get the flexibility and be able to focus on using your glutes for the lift, instead of engaging your quads and back.
As you build up some glute strength you can use the trx less and less until you can do a bodyweight squat without it, then start adding weight.
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Update: after looking at the links given by people on this thread, and after thinking about all your explanations as to what 'straight back' actually means, I tried bodyweight squats again last night and it turns out I CAN DO THEM!
...slowly, and almost falling over backward, and I have to press my upper body quite far forward to counterbalance my huge *kitten*... but I managed to keep my back straight and feet flat on the floor, and I felt the effort in my glutes rather than my quads and knees, so I guess I'm doing it at least an approximation of right
Thankyou all so much!6
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