SL5x5 and 1RM (esp ladies)

lilawolf

A couple questions:

1. If you do 5x5, do you ever test 1RM? If so, how and when?
2. If you've done this before, and this is where I'm particularly asking ladies since they'll have numbers closer to mine, what was your 1RM compared to your 5x5 number? Was it anything close to what a 1RM calc gives you for 5 reps? more?

I know the number doesn't really matter, strength and progression do, leave your ego at the door, blah blah blah... But I do kinda want the bragging rights to go with my hard work. Also judging how well I'm doing using:
https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/other7.htm and
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

Chieflrg

If your doing 5x5, you are a novice lifter.

Doing any form of 1rm is pointless for a novice since you have the capabilities to get strong each session.

My point is why test 1rm if you are just going to be stronger in two days. Every day is a PR.

lilawolf

That's where question number 2 was coming from. Whether the calculator could give me a moving estimate.

klrenn

My 1RM tends to be a little less than the calculations from my 5RM.

Also, if you're hitting your 5x5 sets, that's probably not your true 5RM...hard to judge unless you're at a point where you're failing sets (at least that's how I felt when running the program...that first set I felt like I could have gotten at least one more rep)

I only tested my 1RM when switching to 5/3/1 (and then in a powerlifting meet)

Erik8484

The formulas work well enough for internal benchmarking - for me (a guy) a 5rm to 1rm ratio of 0.89:1.00 is pretty close. Note that your 1x5rm is likely to be higher than your 5x5rm.

bbell1985

I never tested my maxes doing SL 5x5. That's one reason I liked Wendlers 5/3/1 though...even though I rarely if ever tested my 1rm, at least I could have rep PRs on that last AMRAP set which gave me a better idea of 1rm.

My 1rms are close to what the exrx calculator gives, but I have to choose a weight a little heavier than I can do 5x5 and do an AMRAP set I think.

Chieflrg

lilawolf wrote: »

That's where question number 2 was coming from. Whether the calculator could give me a moving estimate.

If you want to get strong, forget all about 1RM until you become a intermediate.
If you want bragging right to hard work, brag on how many weeks you successfully moved up your 5RM set across. Testing your 1RM will only slow that process down as a novice and possibly train you bad form.

If you take your 5x5 across the board with good form and multiple by 1.22 it should give you a number close to your 1RM.

bbell1985 wrote: »

I never tested my maxes doing SL 5x5. That's one reason I liked Wendlers 5/3/1 though...even though I rarely if ever tested my 1rm, at least I could have rep PRs on that last AMRAP set which gave me a better idea of 1rm.

Better idea is even debatable the heavier one lifts since Wendler's program has a lifter doing a ridiculous amount of warmup volume to achieve rep PR's that would hold steady to a 1RM chart or calculator. I would hazard a difference of 10% increase could be swayed if 3-5 warm up sets involving 15-18 reps total would be utilized instead of the area of 35-40 reps(Wendler) it might require for me to get in a range that isn't so grey on a chart.

bbell1985

Chieflrg wrote: »

lilawolf wrote: »

That's where question number 2 was coming from. Whether the calculator could give me a moving estimate.

If you want to get strong, forget all about 1RM until you become a intermediate.
If you want bragging right to hard work, brag on how many weeks you successfully moved up your 5RM set across. Testing your 1RM will only slow that process down as a novice and possibly train you bad form.

If you take your 5x5 across the board with good form and multiple by 1.22 it should give you a number close to your 1RM.

bbell1985 wrote: »

I never tested my maxes doing SL 5x5. That's one reason I liked Wendlers 5/3/1 though...even though I rarely if ever tested my 1rm, at least I could have rep PRs on that last AMRAP set which gave me a better idea of 1rm.

Better idea is even debatable the heavier one lifts since Wendler's program has a lifter doing a ridiculous amount of warmup volume to achieve rep PR's that would hold steady to a 1RM chart or calculator. I would hazard a difference of 10% increase could be swayed if 3-5 warm up sets involving 15-18 reps total would be utilized instead of the area of 35-40 reps(Wendler) it might require for me to get in a range that isn't so grey on a chart.

Okay whatever

Fittreelol

Chieflrg wrote: »

lilawolf wrote: »

That's where question number 2 was coming from. Whether the calculator could give me a moving estimate.

If you want to get strong, forget all about 1RM until you become a intermediate.
If you want bragging right to hard work, brag on how many weeks you successfully moved up your 5RM set across. Testing your 1RM will only slow that process down as a novice and possibly train you bad form.

If you take your 5x5 across the board with good form and multiple by 1.22 it should give you a number close to your 1RM.

bbell1985 wrote: »

I never tested my maxes doing SL 5x5. That's one reason I liked Wendlers 5/3/1 though...even though I rarely if ever tested my 1rm, at least I could have rep PRs on that last AMRAP set which gave me a better idea of 1rm.

Better idea is even debatable the heavier one lifts since Wendler's program has a lifter doing a ridiculous amount of warmup volume to achieve rep PR's that would hold steady to a 1RM chart or calculator. I would hazard a difference of 10% increase could be swayed if 3-5 warm up sets involving 15-18 reps total would be utilized instead of the area of 35-40 reps(Wendler) it might require for me to get in a range that isn't so grey on a chart.

Wendler suggests 3 warm up sets with 13 reps total. Unless you're considering the two working sets before the AMRAP a warm up? Even then it's 2 more sets with 6-10 reps depending on the week.

Chieflrg

Yes, when my goal is to AMRAP or joker set I consider anything that is near below 85% of 1RM a warm up.

Just to be clear I'm speaking of total volume not just sets.

When Deadlifting with my 1RM is 450 this would on 1s week would be according to 5/3/1.

135 x5
145x5
190x5
230x5
270x5
315 x5
355x3
33 total reps
Before I get to 395x5 and start running jokers that will get me closer to my true 1rm on a chart.

A simple warm up of
195x5
245x3
295x2
345x1
11 total reps(could add 135x5 if stone cold)
395x5

You can see I would have much more gas in tank to find my true 1rm with the latter.

Fittreelol

That makes complete sense, but Wendler suggests the following which falls in the middle of your two examples, and isn't what most would consider a extreme number of reps.

165x5
210x5
250 x3
350 x5
375 x3
21 reps
395x 1+

I would think accumulated fatigue and environmental factors (food, sleep, stress) would be a bigger contributor in the ability to perform AMRAPS or joker sets than a 10 total submax reps. If someone were so concerned they could just flip the working sets and jokers and/or AMRAP and do something like

195x5
245x3
295x2
345x1
395x1
<insert jokers here>
395 x1+
375 x3
350 x5

Chieflrg

Fittreelol wrote: »

That makes complete sense, but Wendler suggests the following which falls in the middle of your two examples, and isn't what most would consider a extreme number of reps.

165x5
210x5
250 x3
350 x5
375 x3
21 reps
395x 1+

I would think accumulated fatigue and environmental factors (food, sleep, stress) would be a bigger contributor in the ability to perform AMRAPS or joker sets than a 10 total submax reps. If someone were so concerned they could just flip the working sets and jokers and/or AMRAP and do something like

195x5
245x3
295x2
345x1
395x1
<insert jokers here>
395 x1+
375 x3
350 x5

I believe in the first pages of "Beyond" in the warm up section he says base weight is 135 for squat and deads. Along with working back from working sets 10% of the working max. So in this case we would follow 40lbs increments. Along with capping the one week at 5reps.

If he has something more up to date, I'm not aware as I haven't read or heard of changes. If so, I would be interested in what he had changed.

Of course we can bastardize the program to suit us better. My example is from the book and how Wendler specifically writes it and the relation to how it might govern a true 1RM.

I'm simply going by experience of what I've tested as well as others.

*edited to add
This example is mirrored with the previous statement that the heavier the weight the more skewed a Wendler AMRAP would be because of the added volume.

mom23mangos

I'm no longer running 5x5 and am also doing 5/3/1 and my 1RMs are WAY below the calculated values.

Fittreelol

Chieflrg wrote: »

Fittreelol wrote: »

That makes complete sense, but Wendler suggests the following which falls in the middle of your two examples, and isn't what most would consider a extreme number of reps.

165x5
210x5
250 x3
350 x5
375 x3
21 reps
395x 1+

I would think accumulated fatigue and environmental factors (food, sleep, stress) would be a bigger contributor in the ability to perform AMRAPS or joker sets than a 10 total submax reps. If someone were so concerned they could just flip the working sets and jokers and/or AMRAP and do something like

195x5
245x3
295x2
345x1
395x1
<insert jokers here>
395 x1+
375 x3
350 x5

I believe in the first pages of "Beyond" in the warm up section he says base weight is 135 for squat and deads. Along with working back from working sets 10% of the working max. So in this case we would follow 40lbs increments. Along with capping the one week at 5reps.

If he has something more up to date, I'm not aware as I haven't read or heard of changes. If so, I would be interested in what he had changed.

Of course we can bastardize the program to suit us better. My example is from the book and how Wendler specifically writes it and the relation to how it might govern a true 1RM.

I'm simply going by experience of what I've tested as well as others.

*edited to add
This example is mirrored with the previous statement that the heavier the weight the more skewed a Wendler AMRAP would be because of the added volume.

Fair enough. I was going by his recommendations in the original 5/3/1 since "Beyond" is more of a loose framework of different programming options and ideas. In the section I think you're talking about he says he added more warm up sets to his training (and gives the 135 base), but it's completely optional and something that worked for him for x,y,z reasons. I agree it's not optimal to be determining your 1RM or estimate going by the numbers above, but it's also a training day and I don't think the numbers achieved from a 5/3/1 day would be significantly different from the estimates achieved from any other program's training day.

At the end of the day calculator estimates are just that- estimates, and are often significantly off even with low reps. I find it more beneficial to compare rep records to themselves when I'm following programming with AMRAPS. When I last did X weight how many reps did I do? When I last did Y reps what was the weight? If I try to plug the numbers into a 1RM calculator it generally comes out 20-40 lbs less than my last 1RM test or PR.