Salicylates? ADHD?
llaurenmarie
Posts: 1,260 Member
My GP gave me this very old list of foods to avoid in trying to calm down ADHD/Anxiety symptoms.
(I know it's very old because the letterhead is from his other practice 10 years ago)
Anyway, I do trust his methods, I just haven't been to him in years and have ignored my mental health. Now it's begun tampering with all aspects of my life and I'm exhausted of being so scatter-brained/forgetting things and generally over-emotional.
I've since googled for more information, the beauty and curse of the internet. There are now WAY more hygiene products and foods listed as having these salicylate properties.
For now I am just trying to listen and adhere to these paper guidelines as they may be the "main" items to help avoiding.
Anyone believe in this and/or have experience?
(I know it's very old because the letterhead is from his other practice 10 years ago)
Anyway, I do trust his methods, I just haven't been to him in years and have ignored my mental health. Now it's begun tampering with all aspects of my life and I'm exhausted of being so scatter-brained/forgetting things and generally over-emotional.
I've since googled for more information, the beauty and curse of the internet. There are now WAY more hygiene products and foods listed as having these salicylate properties.
For now I am just trying to listen and adhere to these paper guidelines as they may be the "main" items to help avoiding.
Anyone believe in this and/or have experience?
1
Replies
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Photo should be working now.1
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llaurenmarie wrote: »My GP gave me this very old list of foods to avoid in trying to calm down ADHD/Anxiety symptoms.
(I know it's very old because the letterhead is from his other practice 10 years ago)
Anyway, I do trust his methods, I just haven't been to him in years and have ignored my mental health. Now it's begun tampering with all aspects of my life and I'm exhausted of being so scatter-brained/forgetting things and generally over-emotional.
I've since googled for more information, the beauty and curse of the internet. There are now WAY more hygiene products and foods listed as having these salicylate properties.
For now I am just trying to listen and adhere to these paper guidelines as they may be the "main" items to help avoiding.
Anyone believe in this and/or have experience?
For SOME people, SOME of those lists have SOME benefit.
Ultimately, if your symptoms have dietary causes(when I was younger, some did) You will need to first clean out the things that might be triggers.
You'll need to track what you're eating more aggressively than anyone else. You'll also need to keep a mental inventory, possibly with a trusted friend or partner to let you know honestly if you're acting like you've had a trigger food. If you have, make a note of the relapse and the food trigger. Avoid it aggressively.
If you haven't, or don't think you have. DO a careful inventory of the last 24-48 hours of possible triggers. both lifestyle and dietary. IF you find one. Again, make a note.
Once you have your diet stabilized and normalized, start building good habits that will help you adapt to and compensate around potential triggers.
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Thank you very much for your response. As you can imagine trying to eliminate so many foods is overwhelming enough and makes you more anxious ha. I am sincerely trying. I'm about 24 hours in now and I do feel a bit more calm and centered.stanmann571 wrote: »llaurenmarie wrote: »My GP gave me this very old list of foods to avoid in trying to calm down ADHD/Anxiety symptoms.
(I know it's very old because the letterhead is from his other practice 10 years ago)
Anyway, I do trust his methods, I just haven't been to him in years and have ignored my mental health. Now it's begun tampering with all aspects of my life and I'm exhausted of being so scatter-brained/forgetting things and generally over-emotional.
I've since googled for more information, the beauty and curse of the internet. There are now WAY more hygiene products and foods listed as having these salicylate properties.
For now I am just trying to listen and adhere to these paper guidelines as they may be the "main" items to help avoiding.
Anyone believe in this and/or have experience?
For SOME people, SOME of those lists have SOME benefit.
Ultimately, if your symptoms have dietary causes(when I was younger, some did) You will need to first clean out the things that might be triggers.
You'll need to track what you're eating more aggressively than anyone else. You'll also need to keep a mental inventory, possibly with a trusted friend or partner to let you know honestly if you're acting like you've had a trigger food. If you have, make a note of the relapse and the food trigger. Avoid it aggressively.
If you haven't, or don't think you have. DO a careful inventory of the last 24-48 hours of possible triggers. both lifestyle and dietary. IF you find one. Again, make a note.
Once you have your diet stabilized and normalized, start building good habits that will help you adapt to and compensate around potential triggers.
It's as though there's a double whammy with trying to eat significantly less and also navigate around the guidelines.0 -
Dump the doctor, and find one that's not a GP to help manage your symptoms. the list is well out of date(it was 20 years old in the 70s, and is of primary benefit in dealing with male children with ADHD under the age of 15. If your picture is you. You don't fit the target audience.
If you actually have ADHD, stimulant treatment is the most common and most effective way of managing it.
Caffeine is a stimulant.
That may have been a touch harsh, regardless, the Feingold diet is not appropriate for an adult female. You will deal with different triggers and causes.4 -
I have an appointment this month with someone who's "not a GP". But this GP has helped me in the past with medicine, "life" just happened and I haven't been focused or able to pay for mental health treatment until now.
I am just trying to remain open to natural things to help lessen the symptoms, in addition to medicine. It's taken me this long because I never wanted to admit I needed medicine and now it just seems like it's bigger than me.2 -
No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.1
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llaurenmarie wrote: »I have an appointment this month with someone who's "not a GP". But this GP has helped me in the past with medicine, "life" just happened and I haven't been focused or able to pay for mental health treatment until now.
I am just trying to remain open to natural things to help lessen the symptoms, in addition to medicine. It's taken me this long because I never wanted to admit I needed medicine and now it just seems like it's bigger than me.
By all means remain open. and examine your diet. I kept Feingold(or a variation) through HS, and found it immensely helpful. I also discovered that after HS/puberty, things that were trigger foods(apple/orange juice) no longer set me off.0 -
I understand how caffeine is helpful to ADHD but it is also counteractive to someone with anxiety.No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.
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llaurenmarie wrote: »
I understand how caffeine is helpful to ADHD but it is also counteractive to someone with anxiety.No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.
What is the list aimed at? ADHD or anxiety? I've never seen them lumped into one medical condition, although I recognize they can be comorbid.0 -
No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.
Feingold is actually fairly good. and the book is worth reading especially if you have an ODD or ADHD or ASD child.
But it doesn't work for every child, and it generally is less effective after the hormonal changes of puberty.0 -
Sorry the list is for ADHDllaurenmarie wrote: »
I understand how caffeine is helpful to ADHD but it is also counteractive to someone with anxiety.No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.
What is the list aimed at? ADHD or anxiety? I've never seen them lumped into one medical condition, although I recognize they can be comorbid.
0 -
llaurenmarie wrote: »
I understand how caffeine is helpful to ADHD but it is also counteractive to someone with anxiety.No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.
What is the list aimed at? ADHD or anxiety? I've never seen them lumped into one medical condition, although I recognize they can be comorbid.
The list shouldn't be separated from Feingold's book, because it explains in greater depth the methodologies and weaknesses of the list and makes it clear that it's not necessarily beneficial or even effective for every patient.
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stanmann571 wrote: »llaurenmarie wrote: »
I understand how caffeine is helpful to ADHD but it is also counteractive to someone with anxiety.No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.
What is the list aimed at? ADHD or anxiety? I've never seen them lumped into one medical condition, although I recognize they can be comorbid.
The list shouldn't be separated from Feingold's book, because it explains in greater depth the methodologies and weaknesses of the list and makes it clear that it's not necessarily beneficial or even effective for every patient.
That makes more sense, thank you.0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »llaurenmarie wrote: »
I understand how caffeine is helpful to ADHD but it is also counteractive to someone with anxiety.No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.
What is the list aimed at? ADHD or anxiety? I've never seen them lumped into one medical condition, although I recognize they can be comorbid.
The list shouldn't be separated from Feingold's book, because it explains in greater depth the methodologies and weaknesses of the list and makes it clear that it's not necessarily beneficial or even effective for every patient.
That makes more sense, thank you.
I still avoid HFCS and certain red dyes because while they don't send me on the spiral they did when I was younger, they still boost my weird/random factors to the point where I can inadvertently make those who only know me casually very uncomfortable.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »llaurenmarie wrote: »
I understand how caffeine is helpful to ADHD but it is also counteractive to someone with anxiety.No idea on salicylates, but caffeine is actually recommended and recognized as helpful now to help with mild ADHD symptoms. That alone would make me ignore the rest of the list and seek more up-to-date treatment.
What is the list aimed at? ADHD or anxiety? I've never seen them lumped into one medical condition, although I recognize they can be comorbid.
The list shouldn't be separated from Feingold's book, because it explains in greater depth the methodologies and weaknesses of the list and makes it clear that it's not necessarily beneficial or even effective for every patient.
That makes more sense, thank you.
I still avoid HFCS and certain red dyes because while they don't send me on the spiral they did when I was younger, they still boost my weird/random factors to the point where I can inadvertently make those who only know me casually very uncomfortable.
I know that HFCS just throws me off for the rest of the day.
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stanmann571 wrote: »llaurenmarie wrote: »I have an appointment this month with someone who's "not a GP". But this GP has helped me in the past with medicine, "life" just happened and I haven't been focused or able to pay for mental health treatment until now.
I am just trying to remain open to natural things to help lessen the symptoms, in addition to medicine. It's taken me this long because I never wanted to admit I needed medicine and now it just seems like it's bigger than me.
By all means remain open. and examine your diet. I kept Feingold(or a variation) through HS, and found it immensely helpful. I also discovered that after HS/puberty, things that were trigger foods(apple/orange juice) no longer set me off.
We Feingolded my son. It was very helpful. You might want to check out Feingold for more comprehensive information and lists of things to avoid, OP.
At this point, my son is almost 15 and with the exception of some preservatives, doesn't need to avoid most of the no-no's any more.2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Dump the doctor, and find one that's not a GP to help manage your symptoms. the list is well out of date(it was 20 years old in the 70s, and is of primary benefit in dealing with male children with ADHD under the age of 15. If your picture is you. You don't fit the target audience.
If you actually have ADHD, stimulant treatment is the most common and most effective way of managing it.
Caffeine is a stimulant.
That may have been a touch harsh, regardless, the Feingold diet is not appropriate for an adult female. You will deal with different triggers and causes.
This. Stimulants have been the main treatment since the 1990's.1 -
I am coming from the 'having experience,' at least when it comes to mental health and dietary measures that impact it. This applies to myself, and both my children, too, so I'm just going to throw some things out there.
1. From the standpoint of diet potentially impact mental health - OMG, yes. Diet can have a HUGE impact on mental health, but is largely ignored by the medical profession (according to a couple of my doctors, most of them are taught currently in school that 'food is almost never a cause of physical problems,' and so will almost never recommend elimination diets unless you have something that requires it obviously, like diabetes). So the fact that your doctor is promoting food as something that can have an impact? Good on him.
The list being out of date...eh, that's not so good. But at least the doc is willing to think about it, you know?
2. When it comes to food impacting mental health, sometimes it's because you HAVE a condition that makes you react to food.
For example: People with mild food allergies frequently suffer from memory trouble, brain fog, and/or fatigue (and sometimes mild gut issues), even if their allergy is not severe enough to cause hives/itching. Most doctors - and sadly even some allergists - will not suspect you have allergies UNLESS you have hives. But the allergy prick tests are often not as accurate for foods you don't have a skin reaction to, either.
And if you get a blood test for allergies, many allergists will often recommend 'not worrying' about any foods that you don't have a 'high level' reaction to. However, for myself and many allergic folks I speak to, we have felt SO MUCH BETTER going off of the lower level allergy foods. Like, unbelievably better. Had good memory and focus for what felt like the first time in YEARS. I would seriously recommend considering it, honestly.
Another example: celiac disease. This is a gut disorder, requires a dietary change as treatment (but don't do the change until AFTER getting tested, as the test looks for accumulated and active damage biomarkers to eating gluten). Many doctors are aware of gut symptoms to look for: stomach pain, bloating, bowel trouble. Some look for skinny people or short people. However, over a third of folks don't have this and have OTHER symptoms that are actually a result of nutrient deficiencies. And most doctors don't know what those are, or don't think about them - but mental symptoms are on that list, 'cause the brain needs enough nutrients to keep working, like anything else.
Another issue with this - many doctors will test for just a couple nutrients and assume that if THEY are fine, the rest would be too. But with celiac disease, which nutrients are low depends on where the damage IS, so some nutrients can sometimes be low, but are never tested or difficult to test for so you never find out and never consider getting tested for the disease.
- and food intolerances, too. Doctors know, pretty much NOTHING about food intolerances. Not kidding around: nothing. GI doctors know about lactose intolerance, because that involves an enzyme in the gut. Same with fructose malabsorption/intolerance. Doctors only LAST YEAR proved that gluten intolerance existed, but it's not an enzyme but rather the body reacting with an immune response to gluten, in a way that is NOT celiac disease nor an allergic response. that's the extent of what they know so far - literally don't even know how it works yet.
Every other type of intolerance, we don't even know what's happening. ALL the tests on it are speculative on what they are GUESSING is happening (which is why many doctors don't accept intolerance tests as valid). The thing is - intolerances are kind of a 'lost' problem in human health. Decades ago, if you have a reaction to food, an allergist helped you with it. But when IgE was discovered, allergists started ONLY treating patients who had an IgE response. Except a LOT of people have reactions to foods and chemicals that do not involve IgE...and no specialty ever popped up to pick them up, to study it, to take care of the people the allergists avoided now. So there is very, very little research on the topic, unfortunately, and elimination diets about the only thing that you can use to see if there is a problem. :-(
- and oddly, some diseases are impacted by food, as well, like lyme disease, or parasitical infections like giardiasis that respond to diet changes.
So basically...there's a lot of physical changes that can be affected by diet. And I have seen SUCH a huge difference for so many people, I'm honestly to the point that I think doctors should recommend their patients try an elimination diet for a few weeks, on principle, just to see how they feel on it. Because for me...I was sick for 20 years before one, freaking diet change altered my whole life. Hope other people never have to go through that, you know?
3. re: salicylates. If you wish to avoid them, this is a good site to check out that's kept pretty updated: http://salicylatesensitivity.com.
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stanmann571 wrote: »Dump the doctor, and find one that's not a GP to help manage your symptoms. the list is well out of date(it was 20 years old in the 70s, and is of primary benefit in dealing with male children with ADHD under the age of 15. If your picture is you. You don't fit the target audience.
If you actually have ADHD, stimulant treatment is the most common and most effective way of managing it.
Caffeine is a stimulant.
That may have been a touch harsh, regardless, the Feingold diet is not appropriate for an adult female. You will deal with different triggers and causes.
I also have ADD and caffeine actually helps, and most doctors would say so.
On a side note, high protein diet also can help with ADHD1 -
I thank you so much for taking the time and understanding. It's so frustrating not knowing what is causing the issues and what to try and eliminate for an elimination diet. I have the brain fog and the terrible terrible bloating. I'm feeling a bit better without the bunch of sugar/caffeine and potatoes. We will see.I am coming from the 'having experience,' at least when it comes to mental health and dietary measures that impact it. This applies to myself, and both my children, too, so I'm just going to throw some things out there.
1. From the standpoint of diet potentially impact mental health - OMG, yes. Diet can have a HUGE impact on mental health, but is largely ignored by the medical profession (according to a couple of my doctors, most of them are taught currently in school that 'food is almost never a cause of physical problems,' and so will almost never recommend elimination diets unless you have something that requires it obviously, like diabetes). So the fact that your doctor is promoting food as something that can have an impact? Good on him.
The list being out of date...eh, that's not so good. But at least the doc is willing to think about it, you know?
2. When it comes to food impacting mental health, sometimes it's because you HAVE a condition that makes you react to food.
For example: People with mild food allergies frequently suffer from memory trouble, brain fog, and/or fatigue (and sometimes mild gut issues), even if their allergy is not severe enough to cause hives/itching. Most doctors - and sadly even some allergists - will not suspect you have allergies UNLESS you have hives. But the allergy prick tests are often not as accurate for foods you don't have a skin reaction to, either.
And if you get a blood test for allergies, many allergists will often recommend 'not worrying' about any foods that you don't have a 'high level' reaction to. However, for myself and many allergic folks I speak to, we have felt SO MUCH BETTER going off of the lower level allergy foods. Like, unbelievably better. Had good memory and focus for what felt like the first time in YEARS. I would seriously recommend considering it, honestly.
Another example: celiac disease. This is a gut disorder, requires a dietary change as treatment (but don't do the change until AFTER getting tested, as the test looks for accumulated and active damage biomarkers to eating gluten). Many doctors are aware of gut symptoms to look for: stomach pain, bloating, bowel trouble. Some look for skinny people or short people. However, over a third of folks don't have this and have OTHER symptoms that are actually a result of nutrient deficiencies. And most doctors don't know what those are, or don't think about them - but mental symptoms are on that list, 'cause the brain needs enough nutrients to keep working, like anything else.
Another issue with this - many doctors will test for just a couple nutrients and assume that if THEY are fine, the rest would be too. But with celiac disease, which nutrients are low depends on where the damage IS, so some nutrients can sometimes be low, but are never tested or difficult to test for so you never find out and never consider getting tested for the disease.
- and food intolerances, too. Doctors know, pretty much NOTHING about food intolerances. Not kidding around: nothing. GI doctors know about lactose intolerance, because that involves an enzyme in the gut. Same with fructose malabsorption/intolerance. Doctors only LAST YEAR proved that gluten intolerance existed, but it's not an enzyme but rather the body reacting with an immune response to gluten, in a way that is NOT celiac disease nor an allergic response. that's the extent of what they know so far - literally don't even know how it works yet.
Every other type of intolerance, we don't even know what's happening. ALL the tests on it are speculative on what they are GUESSING is happening (which is why many doctors don't accept intolerance tests as valid). The thing is - intolerances are kind of a 'lost' problem in human health. Decades ago, if you have a reaction to food, an allergist helped you with it. But when IgE was discovered, allergists started ONLY treating patients who had an IgE response. Except a LOT of people have reactions to foods and chemicals that do not involve IgE...and no specialty ever popped up to pick them up, to study it, to take care of the people the allergists avoided now. So there is very, very little research on the topic, unfortunately, and elimination diets about the only thing that you can use to see if there is a problem. :-(
- and oddly, some diseases are impacted by food, as well, like lyme disease, or parasitical infections like giardiasis that respond to diet changes.
So basically...there's a lot of physical changes that can be affected by diet. And I have seen SUCH a huge difference for so many people, I'm honestly to the point that I think doctors should recommend their patients try an elimination diet for a few weeks, on principle, just to see how they feel on it. Because for me...I was sick for 20 years before one, freaking diet change altered my whole life. Hope other people never have to go through that, you know?
3. re: salicylates. If you wish to avoid them, this is a good site to check out that's kept pretty updated: http://salicylatesensitivity.com.0 -
strshllw84 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Dump the doctor, and find one that's not a GP to help manage your symptoms. the list is well out of date(it was 20 years old in the 70s, and is of primary benefit in dealing with male children with ADHD under the age of 15. If your picture is you. You don't fit the target audience.
If you actually have ADHD, stimulant treatment is the most common and most effective way of managing it.
Caffeine is a stimulant.
That may have been a touch harsh, regardless, the Feingold diet is not appropriate for an adult female. You will deal with different triggers and causes.
I also have ADD and caffeine actually helps, and most doctors would say so.
On a side note, high protein diet also can help with ADHD
Caffeine does help with my ADD but hurts my anxiety /: double-edged I'm afraid.1 -
Not sure if this will help anyone but I am offering it. MY son has severe ADHD with aggression, O.D.D, bipolar, OCD and SPD. For 14 years we have struggled with everything from physical violence to being so depressed he doesn't want to live. He has been in trouble for stealing, setting fires, etc. We have tried every medicine under the sun. The only thing that has worked for us was the combination of prozac, intuntiv and diet. The meds did not work by themselves only in combination with the Gap diet and adding fish oil supplements daily. I suggest to anyone who is looking to help symptoms with diet to try the Gap diet and fish oil supplements. It has been a absolute blessing for us.1
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Thank you I will look into thisdaniellelear7 wrote: »Not sure if this will help anyone but I am offering it. MY son has severe ADHD with aggression, O.D.D, bipolar, OCD and SPD. For 14 years we have struggled with everything from physical violence to being so depressed he doesn't want to live. He has been in trouble for stealing, setting fires, etc. We have tried every medicine under the sun. The only thing that has worked for us was the combination of prozac, intuntiv and diet. The meds did not work by themselves only in combination with the Gap diet and adding fish oil supplements daily. I suggest to anyone who is looking to help symptoms with diet to try the Gap diet and fish oil supplements. It has been a absolute blessing for us.
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I've been diagnosed since I was 6 and other than having a healthy diet overall, what I eat doesn't really have an impact on my ADHD. I use caffeine to supplement my non-stimulant medication (we're talking one diet soda a day maybe two on bad days).
I am on Strattera, which works really well for me. Stimulants work for me by themselves, but only at unsafe levels if that gives you an idea of how bad my ADHD can be! Honestly, the most effective treatment for me has been meds + cognitive behavioral therapy/behavior modifications.1 -
Thank you! I have an appointment to be prescribed whatever medication he deems might fit in a couple weeks. I have to wait to see my new health insurance and what it covers(adding to my anxiety)twistedingenue wrote: »I've been diagnosed since I was 6 and other than having a healthy diet overall, what I eat doesn't really have an impact on my ADHD. I use caffeine to supplement my non-stimulant medication (we're talking one diet soda a day maybe two on bad days).
I am on Strattera, which works really well for me. Stimulants work for me by themselves, but only at unsafe levels if that gives you an idea of how bad my ADHD can be! Honestly, the most effective treatment for me has been meds + cognitive behavioral therapy/behavior modifications.0 -
This is very helpful!! Both my son and I suffer from ADHD...he is medicated, I am not...as a result, I tend to struggle more than him. But, both of us would love to be able to control the ADHD with diet. (He is 25, and in his last year of an Electrical Engineering degree.)0
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This site has helpful information on lots of topics including ADHD.
I searched ADHD (scroll down past the ads) http://www.greenmedinfo.com/search/google-cse#gsc.q=adhd
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Other things to think about (which affect gut health, serotonin receptors in the stomach) and inflammation include:
GAPS Diet: http://www.gapsdiet.com/
PUFAs Avoidance: https://paleoleap.com/many-dangers-of-excess-pufa-consumption/
Adding Resistant Starches: https://authoritynutrition.com/resistant-starch-101/
Benefits to increasing Butyrate (Used for Treating Anxiety, Depression, and Mania): https://selfhacked.com/2016/05/07/health-benefits-butyrate-derivatives-sodium-butyrate-phenylbutyrate-trybutyrine-butyric-acid-butyrate-prodrugs-butyrate-producing-bacteria/
I have to add also, that being on Paleo / Keto has helped me immensely. I just recently began to add desiccated adrenal 80 mgs and Butyrate and my moods are incredibly stable despite the fact that I still drink a small amount of coffee. I can tell you though, if I drink it from somewhere else, I don't have control over the caffeine amount and I definitely notice it.0 -
Meditation can help to center you and help you to become more present, which is difficult for those who have ADHD and anxiety.0
This discussion has been closed.
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