Salt and Weight Loss

annaskiski

So interesting article in the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/08/health/salt-health-effects.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below

Summary: Astronaut tests on salt intake showed that when they ate more salt, they drank less (contrary to expectations). Instead the body broke down fat and muscle to produce more water for their bodies, and increased energy expenditure. It also made them much hungrier, presumably to cover the extra energy they were burning. In mouse studies, the mice ate 25% more to make up for the extra energy burn.

Thoughts?

yellowbentine

It seems to be given a hard time by the mainstream media but I have heard medics with varying opinions on it. If you eat more salt, your body will excrete more salt. The thing about junk food is that it contains both salt and sugar. I think sugar is more the bad guy. Blood trygliceride levels will raise the blood pressure as well as well as cholesterol levels.
I love salt and fat. Sugar, not so much.

YaGigi

Once or twice a year I go to a detox and health clinic for 3-7 days. I do it mostly for my gallbladder but also to detox and to strengthen my immune system. There are a lot of tests and treatments there and also a special diet, including Mayr diet. I usually have a diet consisted of salt free food at about 1400 calories, which is more than I usually have (1200). And I always lose weight there, about 5-7 pounds a week. Doctors say it's also due to being on the salt free diet so it's mostly water. I definitely feel better and healthier and not bloated after that diet.

Noreenmarie1234

I love salt and never cut down my sodium. I eat way over rec and it works for me.

lemurcat12

yellowbentine wrote: »

The thing about junk food is that it contains both salt and sugar.

Depends on the junk food. You can't accurately generalize about this.

Anyway, back to the OP -- There was another thread on this study, not sure where it is, and I remember finding the links in it extremely interesting in explaining the mechanics.

Here were a couple of links I think were in the other: https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/04/18/vanderbilt-led-study-shows-high-salt-diet-decreases-thirst-increases-hunger/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170417182920.htm

annaskiski

I find it interesting that our view of salt is changing. Studies recently found that too little salt is bad for people with or without hypertension:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)30467-6/abstract

Interpretation

Compared with moderate sodium intake, high sodium intake is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular events and death in hypertensive populations (no association in normotensive population), while the association of low sodium intake with increased risk of cardiovascular events and death is observed in those with or without hypertension. These data suggest that lowering sodium intake is best targeted at populations with hypertension who consume high sodium diets.

I'm just happy 'cause I like salt....

quiksylver296

YaGigi wrote: »

Once or twice a year I go to a detox and health clinic for 3-7 days. I do it mostly for my gallbladder but also to detox and to strengthen my immune system. There are a lot of tests and treatments there and also a special diet, including Mayr diet. I usually have a diet consisted of salt free food at about 1400 calories, which is more than I usually have (1200). And I always lose weight there, about 5-7 pounds a week. Doctors say it's also due to being on the salt free diet so it's mostly water. I definitely feel better and healthier and not bloated after that diet.

What happens when you get home and start eating salt again?


And...holy smokes, that must be expensive.

YaGigi

quiksylver296 wrote: »

YaGigi wrote: »

Once or twice a year I go to a detox and health clinic for 3-7 days. I do it mostly for my gallbladder but also to detox and to strengthen my immune system. There are a lot of tests and treatments there and also a special diet, including Mayr diet. I usually have a diet consisted of salt free food at about 1400 calories, which is more than I usually have (1200). And I always lose weight there, about 5-7 pounds a week. Doctors say it's also due to being on the salt free diet so it's mostly water. I definitely feel better and healthier and not bloated after that diet.

What happens when you get home and start eating salt again?


And...holy smokes, that must be expensive.

I don't eat a lot of salty things. But I gain about 2-4 pounds back usually within a month.

It's kind of expensive but I take a short term. Most people take 14-21 days.
I found that it's very helpful for the immune system too. I haven't been sick for years since I started doing it, even during flu seasons. And I used to be sick 2-3 times a year with cold and flu and etc. Mayr believed that health and immunity comes from digestive system, and probably he was somewhat correct.

estherdragonbat

Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »

I love salt and never cut down my sodium. I eat way over rec and it works for me.

Same. I've been attributing my weightloss to 1) Even with the water weight, my deficit is big enough to show a loss or 2) Since eating a lot of salty foods isn't new for me, I've probably had a high-sodium intake all along. And now, even though I'm usually way over the RDA, because I'm eating less, I'm probably taking in less salt than I was before MFP (though it's hard to be sure, since I wasn't logging back then.) 3) I'm a freak of nature. Someone call science.

ladyreva78

Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »

I love salt and never cut down my sodium. I eat way over rec and it works for me.

I hate salt and I eat way over rec...

However, my BP also does weird things if I lower that amount of sodium to standard recommendation. So I'll stick to eating high sodium. Passing out is no fun

jessiferrrb

lemurcat12 wrote: »

yellowbentine wrote: »

The thing about junk food is that it contains both salt and sugar.

Depends on the junk food. You can't accurately generalize about this.

Anyway, back to the OP -- There was another thread on this study, not sure where it is, and I remember finding the links in it extremely interesting in explaining the mechanics.

Here were a couple of links I think were in the other: https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/04/18/vanderbilt-led-study-shows-high-salt-diet-decreases-thirst-increases-hunger/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170417182920.htm

interesting quote from the first link

"High salt induces a catabolic state driven by glucocorticoids. Muscle protein is broken down and converted into urea by the liver."

it lists specifically the breakdown of muscle protein to compensate for the energy burned in a high salt diet, but not fat.

so, i looked up the urea content in fat cells and found this study, which briefly addresses it.
http://www.jbc.org/content/18/1/53.full.pdf


"The low values obtained for fat are not surprising on account of the slight solubility of urea in fats, and also the small amount of water present in adipose tissue. "

so, it's possible that if you're not compensating by eating more you may face more loss of lbm rather than fat.

is that a totally wrong reading / reach for this?

lemurcat12

jessiferrrb wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

yellowbentine wrote: »

The thing about junk food is that it contains both salt and sugar.

Depends on the junk food. You can't accurately generalize about this.

Anyway, back to the OP -- There was another thread on this study, not sure where it is, and I remember finding the links in it extremely interesting in explaining the mechanics.

Here were a couple of links I think were in the other: https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/04/18/vanderbilt-led-study-shows-high-salt-diet-decreases-thirst-increases-hunger/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170417182920.htm

interesting quote from the first link

"High salt induces a catabolic state driven by glucocorticoids. Muscle protein is broken down and converted into urea by the liver."

it lists specifically the breakdown of muscle protein to compensate for the energy burned in a high salt diet, but not fat.

so, i looked up the urea content in fat cells and found this study, which briefly addresses it.
http://www.jbc.org/content/18/1/53.full.pdf


"The low values obtained for fat are not surprising on account of the slight solubility of urea in fats, and also the small amount of water present in adipose tissue. "

so, it's possible that if you're not compensating by eating more you may face more loss of lbm rather than fat.

is that a totally wrong reading / reach for this?

Yes, that's how I read it too.

lemurcat12

From my second link, I thought this was helpful:

"The results confirmed that eating more salt led to a higher salt content in urine -- no surprise there. Nor was there any surprise in a correlation between amounts of salt and overall quantity of urine. But the increase wasn't due to more drinking -- in fact, a salty diet caused the subjects to drink less. Salt was triggering a mechanism to conserve water in the kidneys.

Before the study, the prevailing hypothesis had been that the charged sodium and chloride ions in salt grabbed onto water molecules and dragged them into the urine. The new results showed something different: salt stayed in the urine, while water moved back into the kidney and body. This was completely puzzling to Prof. Jens Titze, MD of the University of Erlangen and Vanderbilt University Medical Center and his colleagues. "What alternative driving force could make water move back?" Titze asked.

Experiments in mice hinted that urea might be involved. This substance is formed in muscles and the liver as a way of shedding nitrogen. In mice, urea was accumulating in the kidney, where it counteracts the water-drawing force of sodium and chloride. But synthesizing urea takes a lot of energy, which explains why mice on a high-salt diet were eating more. Higher salt didn't increase their thirst, but it did make them hungrier. Also the human "cosmonauts" receiving a salty diet complained about being hungry."

I found this fascinating -- I would have attributed salt making you hungrier simply to palatability before.