Ketosis benefits

clicketykeys

So one of the things I hear about ketosis is that you're training your body to burn fat for energy. What I'm wondering is if, when you're eating at a deficit, that means that you lose less muscle mass than you otherwise would. And I'm also wondering, if this is what's claimed, what sort of research/documentation supports it.

Rusty740

hmmm, the basics are that your body uses the glycogen in your liver first, then once that's begining to be used up, it favours using fat, then muscle eventually, but it's all on a continuum. There's a nice little graph somewhere that shows it. You don't need to "train" you body to do this, it's already sorted it out.

All you're doing in ketosis, is not feeding your body much carbs, because it likes to use them first to replenish the glycogen, so it does tend to use fat more often.

It may be that you lose less muscle on keto (maybe) due to the high amounts of protein you'd be eating, but I don't think there is evidence that very high (about 3 x the daily minimum recommended) protein has any benefits. Not losing muscle mass has more to do with eating "enough" protein (about 2 x the daily minimum recommended) while also stressing your muscles so your body wants to build them (weight lifting), and not having your deficit be too large.

Can you do this on keto, sure, but you don't need to and I'm not sure it's better than any other way.

lemurcat12

clicketykeys wrote: »

So one of the things I hear about ketosis is that you're training your body to burn fat for energy. What I'm wondering is if, when you're eating at a deficit, that means that you lose less muscle mass than you otherwise would. And I'm also wondering, if this is what's claimed, what sort of research/documentation supports it.

No, muscle vs. fat seems to depend on getting enough protein and using your muscles.

AnvilHead

lemurcat12 wrote: »

clicketykeys wrote: »

So one of the things I hear about ketosis is that you're training your body to burn fat for energy. What I'm wondering is if, when you're eating at a deficit, that means that you lose less muscle mass than you otherwise would. And I'm also wondering, if this is what's claimed, what sort of research/documentation supports it.

No, muscle vs. fat seems to depend on getting enough protein and using your muscles.

Also worth mentioning that carbs are anti-catabolic. And that when you're in a caloric deficit, your body burns fat for energy regardless of whether you're eating a ketogenic diet or not.

ndj1979

AnvilHead wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

clicketykeys wrote: »

So one of the things I hear about ketosis is that you're training your body to burn fat for energy. What I'm wondering is if, when you're eating at a deficit, that means that you lose less muscle mass than you otherwise would. And I'm also wondering, if this is what's claimed, what sort of research/documentation supports it.

No, muscle vs. fat seems to depend on getting enough protein and using your muscles.

Also worth mentioning that carbs are anti-catabolic. And that when you're in a caloric deficit, your body burns fat for energy regardless of whether you're eating a ketogenic diet or not.

Yup, the formula for preserving mass is the same for all, keep protein high + progressive overload

clicketykeys

Rusty740 wrote: »

All you're doing in ketosis, is not feeding your body much carbs, because it likes to use them first to replenish the glycogen, so it does tend to use fat more often.

I've heard that as well. But I don't see how it matters whether the glycogen is replenished from carbs or fat... if you're at a deficit, your body is using up what you're putting into it - carbs/fat/protein. I can't figure out why it matters what order they get used up!

Thanks for your helpfulness everybody

psuLemon

clicketykeys wrote: »

Rusty740 wrote: »

All you're doing in ketosis, is not feeding your body much carbs, because it likes to use them first to replenish the glycogen, so it does tend to use fat more often.

I've heard that as well. But I don't see how it matters whether the glycogen is replenished from carbs or fat... if you're at a deficit, your body is using up what you're putting into it - carbs/fat/protein. I can't figure out why it matters what order they get used up!

Thanks for your helpfulness everybody

There is a misnomer in the ketogenic community by a lot of people who tend to be overzealous or new to the diet structure. They push it as they are fat burners not carb burners. They are talking about substrate utilization (how much of what energy source is being used, as noted above). So you actually increase fat oxidation (because you store more fat as well which people don't talk about) and decrease carb oxidation. In a person who isn't keto, they burn roughly 50/50. In those they are keto, it might be 60/40.

How is this actually applicable to weight loss? It's not.. that is driven by energy balance. Where fat oxidation vs carb oxidation matters is exercise. This is where there is a lot of debate on which is a better source. But roughly, workouts that require explosive power, tend to do better with more carbs.

lemurcat12

One idea is that if your body is more used to burning fat you will be less likely to have blood sugar variations and feel very hungry or have cravings between meals. This seems to be very individual, though. I personally didn't struggle with hunger with 50% carbs, as some report, but I do find I am less hungry and find it less bothersome to skip a meal with fewer carbs. Really hard to separate out mental influences here, of course.

psuLemon

I will note, there is benefits to ketosis when it comes to things like diabetes/IR issues, and some early benefits shown in some types of cancers (generally more brain related ones) and potentially Alzheimers; but for the latter, they are in conjunction with treatment and should not be used as a supplement for proven treatments.

clicketykeys

psuLemon wrote: »

But roughly, workouts that require explosive power, tend to do better with more carbs.

This makes sense because I've also heard that carbs metabolize faster than fats. So you get the energy burst quickly.

lemurcat12 wrote: »

One idea is that if your body is more used to burning fat you will be less likely to have blood sugar variations and feel very hungry or have cravings between meals. This seems to be very individual, though. I personally didn't struggle with hunger with 50% carbs, as some report, but I do find I am less hungry and find it less bothersome to skip a meal with fewer carbs. Really hard to separate out mental influences here, of course.

psuLemon wrote: »

I will note, there is benefits to ketosis when it comes to things like diabetes/IR issues, and some early benefits shown in some types of cancers (generally more brain related ones) and potentially Alzheimers; but for the latter, they are in conjunction with treatment and should not be used as a supplement for proven treatments.

Interesting! I haven't heard those before. Does anyone know if there's research that supports these claims?