Why does MFP limit my protein?
Replies
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Recommended protien is .6 to .8 grams per pound of body weight or 1 gram of protien per kilo of body weight.
WHO has a lower number and also UK and European countries has set it lower than most of the advisories in North America.
@Gamliela
You do realise that there are 2.2lbs in a kilo?
Yes, and that is what is advised as sufficient protien.
I think the point is that the math doesn't work out - if the recommendation is .6 to .8 grams per lb, shouldn't it equate to 1.3 to 1.7 grams per kilo?0 -
Recommended protien is .6 to .8 grams per pound of body weight or 1 gram of protien per kilo of body weight.
These are very different numbers. For me, the low end of the first is 75. The second is 57 g.
The first is the one usually recommended by sources other than those who set the normal RDAs for people physically active or losing weight. (There are a number of sources for it in the examine.com article I often cite.) It also lines up well with around 1 g/lb of LBM.
The second is similar to the RDA/minimum often recommended (.8-1 g/kg). It doesn't take into account the benefits for someone on a cut.WHO has a lower number and also UK and European countries has set it lower than most of the advisories in North America.
Why do you think the NA numbers are higher? The RDA in the US is pretty much the g/kg number. But again that's a different issue than what can be beneficial for someone maximizing physical performance or losing weight (and needing to protect against muscle loss).0 -
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Well sorry I can't produce links but look above at the rcommended amou ts set by the European union and the uk. I don't know where everybody gets one gram per body weight, as in pounds. Well, I just thought the USA and Canada had different and higher values for protien as compared to what the guidlnes are here in Europe.
Th WHO also is lower, I can't remember exactly but I recall it works out to 50 60 grams a day for me.
I'm not arguing about how much is actually necessary, just that other countries seem to have different values attached to protien requirements.0 -
I don't know where everybody gets one gram per body weight, as in pounds.
People don't usually recommend so much here (some bodybuilding sites, sure). They recommend 1 g/lb of LBM which IS the .6-.8 g/lb number you gave for most people.
The US RDA is .8 g/kg, but that's not an ideal amount, it's what most generally need to have sufficient. Here's one source that's pretty typical: http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how-much-protein-do-you-need-every-day-201506188096. There are links focusing more on what's beneficial for weight loss at examine.com, as I mentioned.
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EFSA sets population reference intakes for protein
EFSA has published population reference intakes (PRIs) for protein, completing the latest stage of its work on dietary reference values (DRVs).
A PRI indicates the amount of an individual nutrient that the majority of people in a population need for good health depending on their age and sex. EFSA’s Panel on Dietetic Products, Nutrition and Allergies set PRIs for protein for adults, infants and children, and pregnant and breast-feeding women, as follows:
Adults (including older adults) – 0.83 g per kg of body weight per day.
Infants, children and adolescents – between 0.83 g and 1.31 g per kg of body weight per day depending on age.
Pregnant women – additional intake of 1 g, 9 g and 28 g per day for the first, second and third trimesters respectively.
Breast-feeding women – additional intake of 19 g per day during the first 6 months of lactation and 13 g per day thereafter.
So that is what is recommended in Europe by the european union.0 -
This is from the site www.food.gov.uk providing the protien requirments the advise:
Nutrient
1-3yrs
4-6yrs
7-10yrs
11-14yrs
15-18yrs
Protein
15g
20g
28g
42g
55g
Sorry about the way it reproduced, but the adult requirment for protien is 53 grams per day, a bit lower than for the 18 year old at 55 grams. I was wrong there, thinking mine was 50 to 60 according to this one.
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...and MFP gives me way more than @Gamliela's above recommendation by default. @nutty2chat2016, the defaults are already higher than the recommended amounts discussed above. For instance, I would be given 53g if using the above calculation. This site gives me 75g by default.
All this conversation is saying is that if you want to eat higher protein go for it. Try to squeeze in some vegetables and a little fat every day and you're good.
It took me months to figure all this out. In the meantime I was losing weight eating what I wanted to eat.
You're already doing it right if you stay within your calories. The macros and micros are more of a Rubik's Cube, and it comes with time.
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So, a question I have is : If a moderately active person in maintenance eats sufficient protien, what would be benefit of eating more than enough? Other than if that is simply a taste factor? Does it benefit th body in a way that eating just sufficient protien and plenty of veg and fruit does? Is there an argument for eating more protien than 53 grams a day as the UK guidlines state?0
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cmriverside wrote: »...and MFP gives me way more than @Gamliela's above recommendation by default. @nutty2chat2016, the defaults are already higher than the recommended amounts discussed above. For instance, I would be given 53g if using the above calculation. This site gives me 75g by default.
All this conversation is saying is that if you want to eat higher protein go for it. Try to squeeze in some vegetables and a little fat every day and you're good.
It took me months to figure all this out. In the meantime I was losing weight eating what I wanted to eat.
You're already doing it right if you stay within your calories. The macros and micros are more of a Rubik's Cube, and it comes with time.
Yeah, you can eat whatever you want!
I don't see an advantage to eating more than the sufficient amount. By the way, I'm always over that 53 grams, but I have thoght of modifying my choice of foods and including more carbs instead of always going over on th protien.
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So, a question I have is : If a moderately active person in maintenance eats sufficient protien, what would be benefit of eating more than enough? Other than if that is simply a taste factor? Does it benefit th body in a way that eating just sufficient protien and plenty of veg and fruit does? Is there an argument for eating more protien than 53 grams a day as the UK guidlines state?
eating more than the RDA - I have noticed more body recomp - my weight has stayed the same (within about 2lb variation), but I'm down 2 pants sizes in 5 months0 -
I found the opposite. When I dropped down protien and added fruit, more sugar and carbs my pants size went down! LOL! Go figure, I guess everyone is a bit different.0
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Yes I logged it. I noticed its been much easier to meet my calorie goals and tbh in the few weeks since I started eating more fruit and veg my calories have not been up to my maintenance amount most days. But I know its not possible to have lost as much fat as my reduced size would indicate. So I may have lost 3 pounds actually, but it appears, looks like, more like 10. This surprised me because I came off a low carb way of eating and fully expected the dreaded bloat and water gain of, who knows, possibly 10 pounds. After a few days of initial puffing up all over, I dropped significantly and that whoosh was followed by a decrease in my waist measurement, an inch less than before I started adding the fruit and veg ( dietary carbs I have increased significantly/ calories only down average 200 a day in circa 3 weeks). I don't think its unusual, I just expected a gain as I have read so much about how people gain rapidly if they eat high carbs after low carb.0
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EFSA sets population reference intakes for protein
EFSA has published population reference intakes (PRIs) for protein, completing the latest stage of its work on dietary reference values (DRVs).
A PRI indicates the amount of an individual nutrient that the majority of people in a population need for good health depending on their age and sex. EFSA’s Panel on Dietetic Products, Nutrition and Allergies set PRIs for protein for adults, infants and children, and pregnant and breast-feeding women, as follows:
Adults (including older adults) – 0.83 g per kg of body weight per day.
Infants, children and adolescents – between 0.83 g and 1.31 g per kg of body weight per day depending on age.
Pregnant women – additional intake of 1 g, 9 g and 28 g per day for the first, second and third trimesters respectively.
Breast-feeding women – additional intake of 19 g per day during the first 6 months of lactation and 13 g per day thereafter.
So that is what is recommended in Europe by the european union.
So again, how is this lower than the US numbers?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »EFSA sets population reference intakes for protein
EFSA has published population reference intakes (PRIs) for protein, completing the latest stage of its work on dietary reference values (DRVs).
A PRI indicates the amount of an individual nutrient that the majority of people in a population need for good health depending on their age and sex. EFSA’s Panel on Dietetic Products, Nutrition and Allergies set PRIs for protein for adults, infants and children, and pregnant and breast-feeding women, as follows:
Adults (including older adults) – 0.83 g per kg of body weight per day.
Infants, children and adolescents – between 0.83 g and 1.31 g per kg of body weight per day depending on age.
Pregnant women – additional intake of 1 g, 9 g and 28 g per day for the first, second and third trimesters respectively.
Breast-feeding women – additional intake of 19 g per day during the first 6 months of lactation and 13 g per day thereafter.
So that is what is recommended in Europe by the european union.
So again, how is this lower than the US numbers?
No its not, as you noted, I was posting it because I didn't provide the link. The UK is below this I believe though.
I have no argument to make. I just noticed that both the WHO and the UK advise a lower requirement for Protien. I also see here on mfp frequently that it is advised to eat one gram per pound of body weight. As per other threads going on atm.
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So, a question I have is : If a moderately active person in maintenance eats sufficient protien, what would be benefit of eating more than enough? Other than if that is simply a taste factor? Does it benefit th body in a way that eating just sufficient protien and plenty of veg and fruit does? Is there an argument for eating more protien than 53 grams a day as the UK guidlines state?
At a deficit there is.
If one is active or trying to build muscle, there is. I would add to this that if one is concerned about maintaining muscle that is commonly lost as one ages, I think there is, which is one reason I want to keep mine higher than the RDA.
Here's a good source of information: https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/According to the International Society of Sports Nutrition, protein intakes of 1.4-2.0 g/kg of bodyweight (0.6-0.9g/lb of bodyweight) for physically active individuals is not only safe, but may improve the training adaptations to exercise training. [7]. The American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine also support high protein intake for active individuals[8] in the range of 1.2-1.7 g/kg of bodyweight (0.5-0.8 g/lb of bodyweight).
The reasons for the above tend to be increased leucine oxidation (a marker for amino acids being used for fuel, by being turned into glucose) that requires a higher intake of amino acids to negate and preserve nitrogen balance.[9][7] Additionally, increasing protein intake above the previously defined RDA 'daily allowance' will increase protein synthesis and, at levels higher than double this total, decrease protein breakdown.[10] Increased muscular hypertrophy is seen as beneficial to sports performance.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »EFSA sets population reference intakes for protein
EFSA has published population reference intakes (PRIs) for protein, completing the latest stage of its work on dietary reference values (DRVs).
A PRI indicates the amount of an individual nutrient that the majority of people in a population need for good health depending on their age and sex. EFSA’s Panel on Dietetic Products, Nutrition and Allergies set PRIs for protein for adults, infants and children, and pregnant and breast-feeding women, as follows:
Adults (including older adults) – 0.83 g per kg of body weight per day.
Infants, children and adolescents – between 0.83 g and 1.31 g per kg of body weight per day depending on age.
Pregnant women – additional intake of 1 g, 9 g and 28 g per day for the first, second and third trimesters respectively.
Breast-feeding women – additional intake of 19 g per day during the first 6 months of lactation and 13 g per day thereafter.
So that is what is recommended in Europe by the european union.
So again, how is this lower than the US numbers?
No its not, as you noted, I was posting it because I didn't provide the link. The UK is below this I believe though.
I have no argument to make. I just noticed that both the WHO and the UK advise a lower requirement for Protien. I also see here on mfp frequently that it is advised to eat one gram per pound of body weight. As per other threads going on atm.
Again, I rarely see any MFP regulars advising 1 g per lb of body weight (which IMO would have no benefit). I see people coming here thinking such numbers are needed from other (bodybuilding or whatever) websites, and it's also often driven by fear of fat and carbs.
What I see recommended on MFP (and what I recommend) is that if you are at a deficit or trying to build muscle or are quite active, .6-.85 g/lb of a healthy body weight (or .8-1 g/lb of LBM) are good numbers to aim for. I tend to aim at the higher end of those numbers (95-100 g), since I am active, am lower carb, and am a woman in my 40s, and I'd like to gain a bit of muscle/recomp when I am not working on losing body fat.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »So, a question I have is : If a moderately active person in maintenance eats sufficient protien, what would be benefit of eating more than enough? Other than if that is simply a taste factor? Does it benefit th body in a way that eating just sufficient protien and plenty of veg and fruit does? Is there an argument for eating more protien than 53 grams a day as the UK guidlines state?
At a deficit there is.
If one is active or trying to build muscle, there is. I would add to this that if one is concerned about maintaining muscle that is commonly lost as one ages, I think there is, which is one reason I want to keep mine higher than the RDA.
Here's a good source of information: https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/According to the International Society of Sports Nutrition, protein intakes of 1.4-2.0 g/kg of bodyweight (0.6-0.9g/lb of bodyweight) for physically active individuals is not only safe, but may improve the training adaptations to exercise training. [7]. The American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine also support high protein intake for active individuals[8] in the range of 1.2-1.7 g/kg of bodyweight (0.5-0.8 g/lb of bodyweight).
The reasons for the above tend to be increased leucine oxidation (a marker for amino acids being used for fuel, by being turned into glucose) that requires a higher intake of amino acids to negate and preserve nitrogen balance.[9][7] Additionally, increasing protein intake above the previously defined RDA 'daily allowance' will increase protein synthesis and, at levels higher than double this total, decrease protein breakdown.[10] Increased muscular hypertrophy is seen as beneficial to sports performance.
At my age not much muscle building is happening. Fortunatly my life has been active and for whatever reason, mostly genetics, I have a good ability to hang on to muscle. Dairy farming for generations may have something to do with it as well. I seem to be unable to avoid getting almost twice the recommended 53 grams a day.
I understand from what you posted that the larger protien requirement is for athelites and in very physically active individuals. I was asking about moderately active people. I had read that older people can benefit from somewhat higher protien intake but it isn't much and I believe I am already above that amount tbh.
So for me, .5 grams per pound is 75 grams per day, within the range of the associations you mentioned. I am even over that some days. It seems very possible, maybe even easy to get enough protien imo unless people are of very high body weight.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »So, a question I have is : If a moderately active person in maintenance eats sufficient protien, what would be benefit of eating more than enough? Other than if that is simply a taste factor? Does it benefit th body in a way that eating just sufficient protien and plenty of veg and fruit does? Is there an argument for eating more protien than 53 grams a day as the UK guidlines state?
At a deficit there is.
If one is active or trying to build muscle, there is. I would add to this that if one is concerned about maintaining muscle that is commonly lost as one ages, I think there is, which is one reason I want to keep mine higher than the RDA.
Here's a good source of information: https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/According to the International Society of Sports Nutrition, protein intakes of 1.4-2.0 g/kg of bodyweight (0.6-0.9g/lb of bodyweight) for physically active individuals is not only safe, but may improve the training adaptations to exercise training. [7]. The American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine also support high protein intake for active individuals[8] in the range of 1.2-1.7 g/kg of bodyweight (0.5-0.8 g/lb of bodyweight).
The reasons for the above tend to be increased leucine oxidation (a marker for amino acids being used for fuel, by being turned into glucose) that requires a higher intake of amino acids to negate and preserve nitrogen balance.[9][7] Additionally, increasing protein intake above the previously defined RDA 'daily allowance' will increase protein synthesis and, at levels higher than double this total, decrease protein breakdown.[10] Increased muscular hypertrophy is seen as beneficial to sports performance.
At my age not much muscle building is happening. Fortunatly my life has been active and for whatever reason, mostly genetics, I have a good ability to hang on to muscle. Dairy farming for generations may have something to do with it as well. I seem to be unable to avoid getting almost twice the recommended 53 grams a day.
I understand from what you posted that the larger protien requirement is for athelites and in very physically active individuals. I was asking about moderately active people. I had read that older people can benefit from somewhat higher protien intake but it isn't much and I believe I am already above that amount tbh.
So for me, .5 grams per pound is 75 grams per day, within the range of the associations you mentioned. I am even over that some days. It seems very possible, maybe even easy to get enough protien imo unless people are of very high body weight.
That's actually the reason I err on the higher side. Like I said, muscle building is harder and muscle loss is common for an older woman (I'm 47), so I work to avoid it. Plus, I see no reason to think muscle building is impossible, and I want to improve my composition overall. For recomping (losing fat, gaining muscle), I think it is beneficial too. Also, since I tend to do quite a bit of cardio, which means that muscles need to be repaired (I'm training for a marathon).
But for just health without these factors no reason to eat more than the RDA, IMO, unless you find it makes things easier. I tend to get my 95 g or more without thinking about it most of the time.1
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