McDougall Diet

13

Replies

  • aylajane
    aylajane Posts: 979 Member
    I think people are upset because "confirmed diagnosis" diseases are not usually "cured" by this type of thing. But I also know that most of the diseases in this category are either difficult to accurately diagnose, are diagnosed by eliminating other diseases or causes, or doctors "give up" and say it is "likely" they have that to avoid further inconclusive testing. These are probably the cases that are "cured" by food - people who had sensitivities or allergies to the ingredients in the food, and were misdiagnosed with the disease since it can be very hard to track down certain sensitivities (especially ingredients common in a wide variety, or not obvious - i.e. "red dye #40" etc.).

    I was "diagnosed" with fibromyalgia years ago by a doctor who did all the cursory tests while telling me it was probably fibro. When tests were normal he gave me the diagnosis (by elimination and supposition) of fibromyalgia. I took meds, got worse, etc for a year. Then one night I was on the internet desperate for a "cure" for fibro and came across a site about the side effects of over-using splenda (sucralose). A huge red light came on - splenda had come out a year before and I thought it was the holy grail - 0 cal and I like the taste (hated equal and others). So I used *liberally*... as in about a total of 40 packs a day.

    The doctor never once questioned my diet or other habits, and it never occured to me to bring it up. So yes, cutting out splenda "cured" my fibro... because I never had it.

    Confirmed, true, actual cases of fibro are unlikely to be cured by cutting out splenda.

    So anyone with symptoms of an autoimmune or other disease who wants to play with their diet should not really be discouraged because it wont "cure" their disease. Even people with confirmed true diseases can sometimes experience relief of some of their symptoms by changes in their diet due to possible other issues (like someone who has UC *and* is lactose intolerance will benefit from cutting out dairy even though not "cured" of UC). And some people may find they never actually had the disease.

    I get the backlash - he shouldnt be claiming to cure diseases he really isnt, but honestly experimenting with various diets to get relief of very specific symptoms is certainly worth a shot!
  • misch_ka
    misch_ka Posts: 31 Member
    VintageFeline ... I'm not here asking for a permission. If you re-read my OP, I was asking if anyone else on here follows the diet. That is all that I was asking. I don't need anyone to tell me if it's ok if I follow a diet or if I go vegan. I'm past that point at 30+ years of age ;)

    I have psoriasis and have been issues with a couple of painful joints (not horribly, but it's annoying). There is also RA in my family.
  • misch_ka
    misch_ka Posts: 31 Member
    This thread is not going anywhere. Now certain individuals are starting to act childish with snide little remarks. Well done. Very grown up.

    Wow.
  • aylajane
    aylajane Posts: 979 Member
    I also think some people (especially here on MFP) object to cutting out more than is necessary. I.e. cutting out all carbs "cures" you when cutting out only gluten would have as well. You are restricting your choices more than needed because you simply dont know what is actually causing the issues. So going vegan if you want in order to test out a theory on feeling better is a perfectly fine idea. But please dont conclude that meat and eggs are your issue if it "works" -- unless you just really like eating that way! But I am the kind of person who wants to know exactly what my limits are... i.e. if I am at a party and there is platter of chicken nuggets and I am hungry, eating them is not vegan but will it cause me to double over in pain? More important to me than a moral objection is a physical one. So if you really want to know whats going on, add back in eggs for awhile and see if you are still ok. Then add back in some milk, etc. whatever you really like and dont really want to give up, try putting back. See if you can find what one thing you change brings your symptoms back. Confirm it by removing it and seeing if your symptoms go away again. Regardless of whether you stay vegan for life, its very handy to know exactly what to avoid regardless.

    I had problems with my knees most of my adult life, knee pain not attributable to arthritis. But for a few years it was almost unbearble. I couldnt do stairs walk very far and I even had a handicap parking sticker.

    Through a series of events I found what was causing it. I switched from drinking 6-12 cans of Diet Code REd Mountain Dew every day (yes, I have issues with moderation :) ) to 6-12 cans of regular Diet Mountain Dew a day... and my knees *significantly* improved. Not awesome, but not debilitating. I experimented by drinking one or two red ones and sure enough - back to hobbling.

    The only real difference between the two? Regular has only Yellow #5 coloring in it. Code Red has Blue #1 and Red #40. Red #40 is known to cause issues for some people (apparently I am one?!).

    So play!
  • wizzybeth
    wizzybeth Posts: 3,578 Member
    misch_ka wrote: »
    RuNaRoUnD ... I hear what you're saying. But you are just assuming I am in this to lose weight. I don't need to lose weight. I'm in a healthy weight range, healthy body fat range, I want to do this for other reason - mainly to reduce amount of inflammation in my system that this doctor claims is from eating animal products and meat. One thing I have a bit of a problem with is that he wants folks to also stay away from vegetable oils ... I also see vegan diet as one of the main ways to solve our global environmental degradation problem. I am very well aware of how weigh gain works. Never had problem figuring that one out as it's first grade math problem.

    And other doctors claim consuming food from the nightshade family (peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, and eggplant) cause inflammation and irritate arthritis. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    Before I found the bant nutritionist, I radically reduced foods with salicylate in them this took my pain away, and I lost some weight too. Salicylate is in most of the fruits and veg we regularly eat if you want a list there is one on the salicylate senditivity web site. the original information came from a New South Wales hospital and there are other sites too.

    I lived with chronic catarah I found this was related to histamine intolerance. I also eliminated foods which provolked or were high in histamine. life was doable that way. I lost a little more weight

    Since I have also done the candida diet and lost significant weight. All that remains for me to do now is to facilitate my body reducing the fluid retention caused by the Hashimotos thyroiditis which was untested and treated for most of my life time. Western medicine does not have as many answers as they think.

    Fortunately I now have digestive enzymes which take care of it all. Life is wonderful and getting better feel better than I did over 30 years ago. One has to do what one can when life is so very restricted.
  • Savyna
    Savyna Posts: 789 Member
    No, I've never heard/nor done the diet and probably would never do so. I don't think I should have to buy anything (besides my own food) to make a diet work. If his diet is mainly a vegan one, then why do you have to buy products and not just vegetables, fruits, soy/tempeh you'd like to cook with?
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Savyna wrote: »
    No, I've never heard/nor done the diet and probably would never do so. I don't think I should have to buy anything (besides my own food) to make a diet work. If his diet is mainly a vegan one, then why do you have to buy products and not just vegetables, fruits, soy/tempeh you'd like to cook with?

    I am not a fan of the McDougall diet (I think it restricts too many foods and promotes an unhealthy fear of fat), but you don't *have* to buy specific products to do it. McDougall sells some convenience-type foods that fit into the guidelines of the diet (like soup cups), but you can do the plan without any of them. It's no different than Weight Watchers have some branded foods that easily fit into the plan.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    cmtigger wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    cmtigger wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    I have RA and a few other health issues and for me weight lifting and regular exercise helps with my RA and the inflammation I havent needed meds yet. I eat low fat due to another health issue so that may help too I dont know. I do know I eat a lot of carbs and that hasnt caused me any inflammation issues. Im not saying to do what I do but weight lifting has been proven to help those with RA have less inflammation and more mobility.
    Swimming is really good too. It's my main workout.

    I dont have any place where I could swim we dont have a YMCA/YWCA,we dont have a community or rec center either. unless I want to swim in the river during the summer and thats not happening.The nearest pool is at the one days in and thats 20 miles one way.The local pool is outside and you have to pay to swim and its 15 miles one way.

    I wasn't telling you that you needed to swim, just that it's good exercise for people with joint issues for the OP or others searching and finding this thread.

    I'm pretty sure all the pools I have access to are 15 miles away or more, and I have to pay in some form for them too- that's to be expected. The heated pool I prefer to use is a town over.

    oh I know you werent telling me,I was just saying. and 15 miles when you dont have transportation makes it hard.
  • nevadavis1
    nevadavis1 Posts: 331 Member
    I'll just throw in here that my rheumatologist (for lupus) told me that the best diet for reducing inflammation is plant-based with low to no animal protein and extremely low fat. Then he said he loves bacon and nobody manages to stick to the plant diet so he gives out pills instead, which don't really do much except alleviate symptoms.... I'm already vegan but McDougall was rough for me and I didn't stick to it. I have a friend with diabetes who does stick to it and he claims to be doing much better on it. He is very thin now, I'll give him that.

    Anyway, the medications only help me to a very limited amount. Different diseases have different progressions and some have treatments that work better or worse... Don't dismiss diet out of hand, but approach with skepticism, that's all.
  • linda513
    linda513 Posts: 8 Member
    I've read Dr. McDougall's books and they make sense to me. I just overlook all of the claims he makes about curing things. Check out this guy on youtube, he ate nothing but potatoes for a whole year: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1jo7mHwQqZNdGS1JS7QpxQ. I think eating a whole foods, plant based diet, without added oil, is very healthy, but it's not a one size fits all kind of thing. I tried Eat to Live and I didn't last long on it. I love starches! In the end, though, for me to lose weight it just comes down to calories. But for my health, I go with whole foods, plant based.
  • Savyna
    Savyna Posts: 789 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Savyna wrote: »
    No, I've never heard/nor done the diet and probably would never do so. I don't think I should have to buy anything (besides my own food) to make a diet work. If his diet is mainly a vegan one, then why do you have to buy products and not just vegetables, fruits, soy/tempeh you'd like to cook with?

    I am not a fan of the McDougall diet (I think it restricts too many foods and promotes an unhealthy fear of fat), but you don't *have* to buy specific products to do it. McDougall sells some convenience-type foods that fit into the guidelines of the diet (like soup cups), but you can do the plan without any of them. It's no different than Weight Watchers have some branded foods that easily fit into the plan.

    Oh ok. When she mentioned she bought some products it sounded like the only way to progress with the diet was by buying his products.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Savyna wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Savyna wrote: »
    No, I've never heard/nor done the diet and probably would never do so. I don't think I should have to buy anything (besides my own food) to make a diet work. If his diet is mainly a vegan one, then why do you have to buy products and not just vegetables, fruits, soy/tempeh you'd like to cook with?

    I am not a fan of the McDougall diet (I think it restricts too many foods and promotes an unhealthy fear of fat), but you don't *have* to buy specific products to do it. McDougall sells some convenience-type foods that fit into the guidelines of the diet (like soup cups), but you can do the plan without any of them. It's no different than Weight Watchers have some branded foods that easily fit into the plan.

    Oh ok. When she mentioned she bought some products it sounded like the only way to progress with the diet was by buying his products.

    It's basically just cutting down on protein and fat, eliminating animal products and vegetable oils (added oils in general), not eating that many nuts either, and getting most of your calories from starches (potatoes, bread, pasta).

    I heard a discussion with him about his disagreement with Fuhrman, and he actually thinks that too many vegetables and fruits is not recommended and starches as the main source of calories is better because nature and we don't know the effect of eating so many micronutrients as with Fuhrman.

    If someone wants to try it, whatever, but I fail to see why one would pick it over other forms of veganism (which I think is great for ethical reasons or if you like it), unless you just want an excuse to eat lots of starches.
  • Tried30UserNames
    Tried30UserNames Posts: 561 Member
    I haven't heard of McDougall's diet, but I had good results from Autoimmune Paleo Diet. I don't follow it now, but between that and GAPS diet, I was able to greatly improve a lot of my symptoms. If I had MS, I'd certainly go more in the direction of the Wahl's AIP protocol.

    Diet can do amazing things for autoimmune diseases, but not everyone has the same success trying the same thing. And it's difficult to do...you have to stick to these things so carefully. I often have a return of symptoms just because I've eaten black pepper or something equally innocuous.

    I say, if this plan sounds like it might work for you, give it a try. If it doesn't work, try something else. If it does work, fantastic. More likely, parts of it will benefit you and parts of it won't, but you'll learn more about your body, your health, and how to manage your symptoms.
  • itsfitnessnotrocketscience
    itsfitnessnotrocketscience Posts: 27 Member
    edited May 2017
    misch_ka wrote: »
    This thread is not going anywhere. Now certain individuals are starting to act childish with snide little remarks. Well done. Very grown up.

    Wow.

    I am with you! I have read Campbell, Fuhrman, Blue Zones... food changes so much more than our waistlines. Our cognitive health, joint/system inflammation, risk of non communicable diseases, etc etc are are all affected by what we put in our mouths!

    For about 6 weeks I've been following WFPB with allowances for a few non-WFBP (but vegan) items. And I've actually stopped tracking here because I've lost 5lbs in that timeframe without effort. I was at a healthy weight but interested in maybe dropping 10-15lb. The other benefits are longer term but I feel brilliantly happy knowing I'm giving my body the best shot to live disease/cancer free!

  • nikki8412
    nikki8412 Posts: 108 Member
    I'm looking into a vegan lifestyle too. Thank you for posting this OP and I hope you are able to connect with folks who may be on the same path as you.
  • crazyycatladyy1
    crazyycatladyy1 Posts: 156 Member
    itsfitnessnotrocketscience wrote: »
    misch_ka wrote: »
    This thread is not going anywhere. Now certain individuals are starting to act childish with snide little remarks. Well done. Very grown up.

    Wow.

    I am with you! I have read Campbell, Fuhrman, Blue Zones... food changes so much more than our waistlines. Our cognitive health, joint/system inflammation, risk of non communicable diseases, etc etc are are all affected by what we put in our mouths!

    For about 6 weeks I've been following WFPB with allowances for a few non-WFBP (but vegan) items. And I've actually stopped tracking here because I've lost 5lbs in that timeframe without effort. I was at a healthy weight but interested in maybe dropping 10-15lb. The other benefits are longer term but I feel brilliantly happy knowing I'm giving my body the best shot to live disease/cancer free!

    I've also read the above, and the blue zones studies are the only one of the three that actually compelled me to experiment with my woe, (as well as the big meta study that recently came out for the Imperial College London). However, having switched to a mostly whole foods, plant based diet hasn't done anything for me-I didn't lose any weight and I'm still within my maintenance range. I don't feel any different and frankly the whole experiment has been a bit anti-climatic. I thought something would happen by making such a drastic change to my woe (I ate pretty SAD before), but nope, nothing, nada. I go in for blood work next month and I'm curious to see if anything magical has happened on the inside, though I was already in excellent health so I don't know what can really change. What first drew me to the blue zones was the longevity of life outcomes, but the women in my family tend to live longer anyways, so again not sure there would be much of a difference. I'll keep at my experiment until I get my blood work done and then re-evaluate. Maybe I'll try low carb next :D
  • NewMeSM75
    NewMeSM75 Posts: 971 Member
    I haven't tried the diet. I purchased some of the soup cups only because of the high fiber content to help with my cholesterol. They were so so.
  • crazyycatladyy1
    crazyycatladyy1 Posts: 156 Member
    edited May 2017
    YvetteK2015 wrote: »
    crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
    YvetteK2015 wrote: »
    crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
    YvetteK2015 wrote: »
    crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
    Athijade wrote: »
    Like Doctor Oz, the man is simply out to make a name for himself and to put money in the bank. Sorry, but no way would I just believe what he has said. Where is the scientific proof? Oh right, he has none because his claims can't be backed by science.

    Yep, this. I eat a mostly whole foods, plant based diet based on actual, legitimate research/studies. I'd never count McDougall/Furhman/Esselstyn etc as legitimate resources though, because of what others have pointed out-they're trying to make a buck by preying on people's fears and desperation. Nothing wrong with a plant based diet if it's done right (one that's balanced and nutrient dense), but I'd steer clear of any guru who claims any certain way of eating is a 'miracle' and is making money off of those claims.

    Op, if you're feeling led to become a vegan I'd highly recommend reading from Virginia Messina. She's a dietician who's a vegan and approaches veganism much differently than McDougall. She has a new book out that addresses health and veganism, Even Vegans Die. Her website has lots of great info as well http://www.theveganrd.com/


    I don't know about the other guys, but Furham is good. He has a family practice and has no problem medicating his patients if they need it. He just advocated a plant based diet. I've used his cook books and I can tell you, they are very balanced, and nutrient dense.

    He claims that his woe reverses diabetes, 'detoxes' the body etc etc. From his site-Harness your body’s tremendous power to heal itself through proper nutrition

    You don’t have to live with a debilitating, chronic disease—the Nutritarian diet allows you to take control of your health destiny through superior nutrition

    More claims of 'miracles'. He also sells everything from supplements to salad dressings, and retreats where all your problems will be fixed, for a price

    I know. I've actually bought his probiotics and salad dressings. So tasty. One is a tuscano herb. I highly recommend it.

    Look, I'm not here to get into a pissing match over a vegan doctor. I think he has valid points about feeling better on a nutritious diet as opposed to a *kitten* diet. I think his cook books are excellent for balanced nutrient dense food. And I take it for what it is. A well thought out, well explained vegan diet.

    I used to respect him more before he became so commercialized, (I've read his older books/hung out quite a bit on his old website/blog). It seems though that he's now just like all the other diet gurus out there-selling a woe as the One True Way. That's why I like Messina so much-she's a vegan dietician and doesn't promote veganisim as the cure all, but as a legitimate woe that has it's pluses and negatives.

    eta: sorry my previous posts have come off as a bit 'cranky'-I'm dealing with shingles right now and I'm not in a good mood :p

    I do agree that he is a "one true way" advocate. Like I said, I'm a meat eater, so I obviously don't subscribe to everything he says, but I do use his books for nutritional information, and for cooking awesome vegan dishes. I've never been one to look for cures in food, but it wasn't until I read his book that I really became aware of *nutrition*. For example, I would go into the supermarket and look at items and say "so what nutritional value am I getting from this". So I can say that his book helped me learn how to eat *better* than I was before.

    Just a little follow up to our side discussion of Furham-I've been digging around his website and he actually doesn't advocate completely cutting out meat if one doesn't want to, but instead to just minimize it and make smarter choices (like low mercury fish etc). I also realized, after reading through his plan, that I'm pretty much following his woe- right down to the big salad every day with the same veggie/add-in combinations. Soooo, I have to apologize for arguing with you, because I guess I'm a Furhman follower without even realizing it lol :)
  • anglyn1
    anglyn1 Posts: 1,802 Member
    misch_ka wrote: »
    singingflutela ... Did he? The only thing I've witnessed on the videos I watched was testimonials of those that have had success with the diet. Testimonials from folks.

    The thing is, I am not here to speak for him and defend his diet, but it looks super interesting for me and better than 99.9% of the diets out there - especially the idiotic LCHF diets ...

    Well I have been on an "idiotic" LCHF diet for over a year and half for the purpose of controlling RA and I have had great success. I don't know why you would post insulting other people's choices and then get offended that you didn't get support. Basically you are your own person and if vegan works for you go for it. It doesn't work for me. The less grains I eat the better I feel. Honestly the less vegetables I eat the better I feel. It sounds like you have thrived on a similar diet in the past so why not try it again. I'm not going call whatever diet makes you feel best idiotic because to each their own.

  • YvetteK2015
    YvetteK2015 Posts: 654 Member
    crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
    YvetteK2015 wrote: »
    crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
    YvetteK2015 wrote: »
    crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
    YvetteK2015 wrote: »
    crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »
    Athijade wrote: »
    Like Doctor Oz, the man is simply out to make a name for himself and to put money in the bank. Sorry, but no way would I just believe what he has said. Where is the scientific proof? Oh right, he has none because his claims can't be backed by science.

    Yep, this. I eat a mostly whole foods, plant based diet based on actual, legitimate research/studies. I'd never count McDougall/Furhman/Esselstyn etc as legitimate resources though, because of what others have pointed out-they're trying to make a buck by preying on people's fears and desperation. Nothing wrong with a plant based diet if it's done right (one that's balanced and nutrient dense), but I'd steer clear of any guru who claims any certain way of eating is a 'miracle' and is making money off of those claims.

    Op, if you're feeling led to become a vegan I'd highly recommend reading from Virginia Messina. She's a dietician who's a vegan and approaches veganism much differently than McDougall. She has a new book out that addresses health and veganism, Even Vegans Die. Her website has lots of great info as well http://www.theveganrd.com/


    I don't know about the other guys, but Furham is good. He has a family practice and has no problem medicating his patients if they need it. He just advocated a plant based diet. I've used his cook books and I can tell you, they are very balanced, and nutrient dense.

    He claims that his woe reverses diabetes, 'detoxes' the body etc etc. From his site-Harness your body’s tremendous power to heal itself through proper nutrition

    You don’t have to live with a debilitating, chronic disease—the Nutritarian diet allows you to take control of your health destiny through superior nutrition

    More claims of 'miracles'. He also sells everything from supplements to salad dressings, and retreats where all your problems will be fixed, for a price

    I know. I've actually bought his probiotics and salad dressings. So tasty. One is a tuscano herb. I highly recommend it.

    Look, I'm not here to get into a pissing match over a vegan doctor. I think he has valid points about feeling better on a nutritious diet as opposed to a *kitten* diet. I think his cook books are excellent for balanced nutrient dense food. And I take it for what it is. A well thought out, well explained vegan diet.

    I used to respect him more before he became so commercialized, (I've read his older books/hung out quite a bit on his old website/blog). It seems though that he's now just like all the other diet gurus out there-selling a woe as the One True Way. That's why I like Messina so much-she's a vegan dietician and doesn't promote veganisim as the cure all, but as a legitimate woe that has it's pluses and negatives.

    eta: sorry my previous posts have come off as a bit 'cranky'-I'm dealing with shingles right now and I'm not in a good mood :p

    I do agree that he is a "one true way" advocate. Like I said, I'm a meat eater, so I obviously don't subscribe to everything he says, but I do use his books for nutritional information, and for cooking awesome vegan dishes. I've never been one to look for cures in food, but it wasn't until I read his book that I really became aware of *nutrition*. For example, I would go into the supermarket and look at items and say "so what nutritional value am I getting from this". So I can say that his book helped me learn how to eat *better* than I was before.

    Just a little follow up to our side discussion of Furham-I've been digging around his website and he actually doesn't advocate completely cutting out meat if one doesn't want to, but instead to just minimize it and make smarter choices (like low mercury fish etc). I also realized, after reading through his plan, that I'm pretty much following his woe- right down to the big salad every day with the same veggie/add-in combinations. Soooo, I have to apologize for arguing with you, because I guess I'm a Furhman follower without even realizing it lol :)

    Oh, no apology necessary. I get that he gets lumped in because of what he sells, and such. I just like his information, and think a lot of it works.
    Hope you're feeling ok.
  • Tried30UserNames
    Tried30UserNames Posts: 561 Member
    notlunchmuffin wrote: »
    i KNEW almost everyone would hate this thread. imo mcdougal is awesome. they crucified jesus too so don't worry about it op

    The majority of people on this site do seem to be avidly against any type of alternative or experimental ways of eating or anything similar, and they like to gang up and silence any dissenting opinion. It is just MFP's way and you have to learn to live with it. The thing I find most humorous about this slavish devotion to one's local gp is that doctors don't even study nutrition in medical school for more than about 30 seconds. Your doctor is likely not as knowledgeable about nutrition and weight loss as your average new Weight Watchers member.
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