words in england that mean something totally different in america!!
Replies
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stanmann571 wrote: »CoffeeAndContour wrote: »Bugger
I think the actual meaning of this is the same on both sides of the pond, it's just that Americans don't usually use it as an expletive.
I can think of another that has an extremely derogatory meaning in the U.S. but is slang in the UK for a cigarette. The original derogatory meaning was probably the same for both and referred to burning a certain segment of society during heretic burning times.
I've never heard an American use bugger, as an expletive or otherwise... unless they had had cross cultural exposure...
It's amusing that the MFP *kitten* filter doesn't pick it up...
Right. Exactly. (Although I have seen the word used descriptively if in hushed tones here for sure. It is just that, again, it is not as common ...we have other words and word combinations we would tend to use instead.)
OTOH many people do have cross-cultural exposure.
But even so, "bugger" would be the extreme rarity.
However, my point was that it actually is a word on this side of the pond which has exactly the same original (very graphic) meaning for both.0 -
blueyandcrazee wrote: »Partner (needs further explanation in the U.S. i.e. squaredancing, business, lab, sex, workout, etc.)
Tea (in the U.S. means a cup of)
Mash (needs further explanation in the U.S. i.e. mashed potatoes, bananas, butternut squash, turnips, carrots, etc.)
Fizzy Drink (what the hell? Just smile and nod.)
Martini with lemonade (ordered by older British ladies in U.S. bars and restaurants. What they're talking about is dry vermouth with 7 Up or Sprite - ice optional. Tutoring necessary to avoid horrification.)
A partner can mean any of those things...its just somebody you do something with I suppose (or I guess!. Mash is something you mash down like potatoes become mashed potatoes or you can get carrot and swede mash where the two are mashed together(like partners!)..and fizzy drinks...drinks that are fizzy!
When Brits say partner it pertains almost exclusively to some vaguely defined sexual relationship. Also, when ordering "mash" in restaurants, they always mean potatoes. Fizzy drink? Yeah, I suppose that's at least a direct way of describing something, so I'll give them a thumbs up for that.
A partner is a word used to describe your other half(husband wife boyfriend girlfriend etc) . But not almost exclusively. It can be a tennis partner a dance partner a drinking partner..its used in many different ways0 -
blueyandcrazee wrote: »blueyandcrazee wrote: »Partner (needs further explanation in the U.S. i.e. squaredancing, business, lab, sex, workout, etc.)
Tea (in the U.S. means a cup of)
Mash (needs further explanation in the U.S. i.e. mashed potatoes, bananas, butternut squash, turnips, carrots, etc.)
Fizzy Drink (what the hell? Just smile and nod.)
Martini with lemonade (ordered by older British ladies in U.S. bars and restaurants. What they're talking about is dry vermouth with 7 Up or Sprite - ice optional. Tutoring necessary to avoid horrification.)
A partner can mean any of those things...its just somebody you do something with I suppose (or I guess!. Mash is something you mash down like potatoes become mashed potatoes or you can get carrot and swede mash where the two are mashed together(like partners!)..and fizzy drinks...drinks that are fizzy!
When Brits say partner it pertains almost exclusively to some vaguely defined sexual relationship. Also, when ordering "mash" in restaurants, they always mean potatoes. Fizzy drink? Yeah, I suppose that's at least a direct way of describing something, so I'll give them a thumbs up for that.
A partner is a word used to describe your other half(husband wife boyfriend girlfriend etc) . But not almost exclusively. It can be a tennis partner a dance partner a drinking partner..its used in many different ways
normally "my partner" either means someone I'm in a sexual relationship with, unless it means someone I'm in a business relationship with..
Which could lead to some very awkward assumptions1 -
I suppose you interpret it's meaning depending on the conversation you're having0
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English belongs to the English so I'll always love them for giving us the most amazing language on this planet.
The majesty of English vocabulary and its unrivaled lyrical qualities make the beauty potential of poetry, literature and song transcendent when expressed in full. There's a reason why English is the most spoken language on the planet. It's truly amazing and has the potential for unparalleled refinement, unlike most other languages.
So I cringe when I hear the Brits, but the English in particular, butchering the English language. Veg, uni, mash, carer, etc. Please, please stop it. You're the true ancestral gatekeepers of your own magnificent language. Protect it and honor it or no one else will.
(Sorry to get all serious about it. Just a peeve of mine.)
English doesn't exclusively belong to the English and the language is constantly evolving and changing, including slang, in England as it is elsewhere. (And slang has been noted in virtually every society throughout history anywhere across the globe that has left written records.) The English can not "preserve" what changes constantly, generation by generation. NO language spoken anywhere is its own original form. Original English (so to speak, as even the word "English" is not its own original word) is unreadable to, I would bet, greater than 98% of the population - you'd have to have specifically studied it; Google to see what I mean.
English does not "belong" to the British; it is today an extreme evolution of an original already changing language that came, more or less, from (today's) Germany and combined with other languages. It has never been stagnant or stationery. Ever. And it has never been spoken "just" in England as its own evolution and changes made their way back and influenced today's German root languages as well.
Just my own pet peeve, as a Language Arts major.
The "preserve dying societies" hypothesis was a 19th century construct from the German-born father of anthropology, Franz Boaz (who wished to "preserve" various NA cultures, some of which he did not realize were less than a century old, such as plains horse riders), and was within a few generations realized to be a fallacy as there is no way to trace an original anything...including language.
By the way, you use a lot of non-original, so to speak, English in your post right down to grammatical structure (for instance, adjective placement) and slang ("butchering" when used in a nonphysical context).
English is NOT superior, BTW, and does not have more potential for refinement than other languages; in fact, we are LESS specific and, if you will, refined in, for example, not giving genders to our adjectives, not giving different designations to extended family members based on which side of the family they came from, and gosh, many many many many other ways. I love English, it is my jam, but be real. 2 -
There are plenty of varieties of English in England alone...the language changes from the north to the south. I live in the most central city in England so I hear it all!2
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Pardon. 'Excuse me' in the UK; what the Governor does to prisoners in the US.
Boot has already been mentioned. Bonnet is the hood of the car in the UK; in the US it's a hat.
Pissed. Drunk in the UK, mad in the US. I remember one of my English cousins seeing a t-shirt from here that read 'Jesus is coming and boy, is he pissed." Took on a whole new meaning!
Lift - Elevator in the UK; here it's either a verb or something Tom Cruise wears in his shoes. ;-)
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blueyandcrazee wrote: »We also call fizzy drinks..like coke..a bottle of pop. Do you say that in america?
no; we're not weird.0 -
.... and memo to the Brits:
For God's sake, learn how to pronounce both: Aluminum & Vitamins
it's got to be embarrassing for all y'all.2 -
English belongs to the English so I'll always love them for giving us the most amazing language on this planet.
The majesty of English vocabulary and its unrivaled lyrical qualities make the beauty potential of poetry, literature and song transcendent when expressed in full. There's a reason why English is the most spoken language on the planet. It's truly amazing and has the potential for unparalleled refinement, unlike most other languages.
So I cringe when I hear the Brits, but the English in particular, butchering the English language. Veg, uni, mash, carer, etc. Please, please stop it. You're the true ancestral gatekeepers of your own magnificent language. Protect it and honor it or no one else will.
(Sorry to get all serious about it. Just a peeve of mine.)
English doesn't exclusively belong to the English and the language is constantly evolving and changing, including slang, in England as it is elsewhere. (And slang has been noted in virtually every society throughout history anywhere across the globe that has left written records.) The English can not "preserve" what changes constantly, generation by generation. NO language spoken anywhere is its own original form. Original English (so to speak, as even the word "English" is not its own original word) is unreadable to, I would bet, greater than 98% of the population - you'd have to have specifically studied it; Google to see what I mean.
English does not "belong" to the British; it is today an extreme evolution of an original already changing language that came, more or less, from (today's) Germany and combined with other languages. It has never been stagnant or stationery. Ever. And it has never been spoken "just" in England as its own evolution and changes made their way back and influenced today's German root languages as well.
Just my own pet peeve, as a Language Arts major. The "preserve dying societies" was a 19th century construct from the German-born father of anthropology, Franz Boaz, and was within a few generations realized to be a fallacy as there is no way to trace an original anything...including language.
By the way, you use a lot of non-original, so to speak, English in your post right down to grammatical structure (for instance, adjective placement) and slang ("butchering" when used in a nonphysical context).
English and s NOT superior, BTW, and does not have more potential for refinement than other languages; in fact, we are LESS specific and, if you will, refined in, for example, not giving genders to our adjectives, not giving different designations to extended family members based on which side of the family they came from, and gosh, many many many !any othernways. I lobe English, it is my jam, but be real.
It does indeed belong to the English. That's why it and they are called English. We have borrowed it along with everyone else who has borrowed it. It's theirs, they initiated and developed it and that's that. The glory belongs to them. And the criticism, where it's warranted.
No, indeed. It did not "belong" to the English from the beginning, as I have pointed out in the exchange of languages from its inception, going back (as we understand it; this is never directly linear nor universal; as I said "original" anything is a fallacy when it comes to anthropology) 1500 years+ but farther back than that in (modern-day) Germany, as well as having been "sent back," so to speak, to other nations during the very transitional early Middle Ages.
And no, the English are not called the English because they speak anything even loosely approximating the original (as far as we can tell) language of the continental European Angles, to wit:
They are called "the English" because of politics and timing, just as Britain isn't called Britain because it's Italian (Britain being a Latin word delivered by the temporarily victorious Romans).
If you want to talk about English "belonging to" the English you need to pre-date the accelerated spread of the language throughout the globe about two and a half centuries ago - even then it won't really be accurate but I'm reaching across the aisle here. Is that the "original" English you wish to preserve? Have you read any of it? Grammar, spellings, annoying excessive punctuation, slang of the day? Is that the cutoff for what Brits "should" preserve? Or is it some other time? What is it you hope to preserve here? Or is it just a specific annoyance for the word veg...or what?
The language is not called English because it permanently belongs to the English. It was called English at the time due to the Angle infiltration among others, with the Angles temporarily on top (and also due to the current inhabitants thinking they were all Angles just as later they would call most Scandinavians Danes), but they themselves were speaking a constantly evolving language. Original forms of English as we understand them, in England specifically are virtually unreadable to us...and guess what, they're virtually unreadable to Brits. The "owners" of that very language.
If you want to say the language shown in that piece of Beowulf shown above belongs to the English, you will be loosely right (very loosely as it was also being spoken in a somewhat modified format in, as I pointed out, parts of Europe).
English "belongs to" the people speaking it. NO language is an island and as I stated, every language evolves...including where it was "originally" (if you will) utilized.
And again. If it should be "preserved," what should it be preserved "to"? How far back? If you don't like "today's" slang in Britain you'll need to do a little etymological digging to see how many centuries back it goes (you'll be surprised).
But since you say it all belongs to the Brits anyway, then you have no cause, by your own "rules," to tell them what they can and can't keep, so the point is moot.
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and while we're at it.... why is it acceptable for the Brits to drive on the wrong side of the road?
it's dangerous!2 -
English belongs to the English so I'll always love them for giving us the most amazing language on this planet.
The majesty of English vocabulary and its unrivaled lyrical qualities make the beauty potential of poetry, literature and song transcendent when expressed in full. There's a reason why English is the most spoken language on the planet. It's truly amazing and has the potential for unparalleled refinement, unlike most other languages.
So I cringe when I hear the Brits, but the English in particular, butchering the English language. Veg, uni, mash, carer, etc. Please, please stop it. You're the true ancestral gatekeepers of your own magnificent language. Protect it and honor it or no one else will.
(Sorry to get all serious about it. Just a peeve of mine.)
English doesn't exclusively belong to the English and the language is constantly evolving and changing, including slang, in England as it is elsewhere. (And slang has been noted in virtually every society throughout history anywhere across the globe that has left written records.) The English can not "preserve" what changes constantly, generation by generation. NO language spoken anywhere is its own original form. Original English (so to speak, as even the word "English" is not its own original word) is unreadable to, I would bet, greater than 98% of the population - you'd have to have specifically studied it; Google to see what I mean.
English does not "belong" to the British; it is today an extreme evolution of an original already changing language that came, more or less, from (today's) Germany and combined with other languages. It has never been stagnant or stationery. Ever. And it has never been spoken "just" in England as its own evolution and changes made their way back and influenced today's German root languages as well.
Just my own pet peeve, as a Language Arts major. The "preserve dying societies" was a 19th century construct from the German-born father of anthropology, Franz Boaz, and was within a few generations realized to be a fallacy as there is no way to trace an original anything...including language.
By the way, you use a lot of non-original, so to speak, English in your post right down to grammatical structure (for instance, adjective placement) and slang ("butchering" when used in a nonphysical context).
English and s NOT superior, BTW, and does not have more potential for refinement than other languages; in fact, we are LESS specific and, if you will, refined in, for example, not giving genders to our adjectives, not giving different designations to extended family members based on which side of the family they came from, and gosh, many many many !any othernways. I lobe English, it is my jam, but be real.
It does indeed belong to the English. That's why it and they are called English. We have borrowed it along with everyone else who has borrowed it. It's theirs, they initiated and developed it and that's that. The glory belongs to them. And the criticism, where it's warranted.
No, indeed. It did not "belong" to the English from the beginning, as I have pointed out in the exchange of languages from its inception, going back (as we understand it; this is never directly linear nor universal; as I said "original" anything is a fallacy when it comes to anthropology) 1500 years+ but farther back than that in (modern-day) Germany, as well as having been "sent back," so to speak, to other nations during the very transitional early Middle Ages.
And no, the English are not called the English because they speak anything even loosely approximating the original (as far as we can tell) language of the continental European Angles, to wit:
They are called "the English" because of politics and timing, just as Britain isn't called Britain because it's Italian (Britain being a Latin word delivered by the temporarily victorious Romans).
If you want to talk about English "belonging to" the English you need to pre-date the accelerated spread of the language throughout the globe about two centuries ago. Is that the "original" English you wish to preserve? Have you read any of it?
It is not called English because it permanently belongs to the English. Original forms of English as we understand them, in England specifically are virtually unreadable to us, to wit:
If you want to say that belongs to the English, you will be loosely right (very loosely as it was also being spoken in a somewhat modified format in, as I pointed out, parts of Europe).
English "belongs to" the people speaking it. NO language is an island and as I stated, every language evolves...including where it was "originally" (if you will) utilized.
And again. If it should be "preserved," what should it be preserved "to"? How far back? If you don't like "today's" slang in Britain you'll need to do a little etymological digging to see how many centuries back it goes (you'll be surprised).
But since you say it all belongs to the Brits anyway, then you have no cause, by your own "rules," to tell them what they can and can't keep, so the point is moot.
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Motorsheen wrote: »and while we're at it.... why is it acceptable for the Brits to drive on the wrong side of the road?
it's dangerous!
Lots of countries drive on what we think is the wrong side of the road. I lived in Japan, their steering wheel is on the right side of the car, drive on the left side of the street.0 -
blueyandcrazee wrote: »We also call fizzy drinks..like coke..a bottle of pop. Do you say that in america?
It depends on what region you're in.0 -
You can't really borrow languages. They're not library books. More like free shareware apps for communication.
Politically, I feel vehement statements about how other nations are only borrowing English and don't have the right to mod their forced download, so to speak, are unfortunate, given, well, the British Empire, the use of language as a colonisation tool (not just Britain- the French particularly skilled at this as well, actually) and historical efforts made to enforce English usage and eradicate other languages.
Also politically, the UK has four countries/principalities, all of whom use English as a working language, and all of whom have variations thereof. Only one of those nations is called England, and over my dead body do the Scots and Welsh and Northern Irish get told their regional usages are invalid. It'll be enough to trigger #IndyRef2, and my nerves can't stand it. I'm already concerned what recent political events could mean for the peace process...
Edit: Taken to its natural conclusion, who gets the deciding vote of linguistic development- Birmingham, England, York, England, an East End Londoner, or a board from the county of Essex? They will all speak quite differently, but they're all English. Who is "true" English?5 -
armchairherpetologist wrote: »blueyandcrazee wrote: »We also call fizzy drinks..like coke..a bottle of pop. Do you say that in america?
It depends on what region you're in.
This is true. Some people in America call it pop, some call it soda, some call it Coke no matter what kind it is.0 -
blueyandcrazee wrote: »There are plenty of varieties of English in England alone...the language changes from the north to the south. I live in the most central city in England so I hear it all!
There's reason in this thread, everybody run away.
Just kidding everybody, happy Monday.0 -
armchairherpetologist wrote: »blueyandcrazee wrote: »We also call fizzy drinks..like coke..a bottle of pop. Do you say that in america?
It depends on what region you're in.
Sitting back and waiting for the pop / soda / coke discussion to begin......0 -
Okay, I'm grabbing my coat and I'm leaving! Been there, seen that, and it gets messy...armchairherpetologist wrote: »blueyandcrazee wrote: »We also call fizzy drinks..like coke..a bottle of pop. Do you say that in america?
It depends on what region you're in.
Sitting back and waiting for the pop / soda / coke discussion to begin......
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »You can't really borrow languages. They're not library books. More like free shareware apps for communication.
Politically, I feel vehement statements about how other nations are only borrowing English and don't have the right to mod their forced download, so to speak, are unfortunate, given, well, the British Empire, the use of language as a colonisation tool (not just Britain- the French particularly skilled at this as well, actually) and historical efforts made to enforce English usage and eradicate other languages.
Also politically, the UK has four countries/principalities, all of whom use English as a working language, and all of whom have variations thereof. Only one of those nations is called England, and over my dead body do the Scots and Welsh and Northern Irish get told their regional usages are invalid. It'll be enough to trigger #IndyRef2, and my nerves can't stand it. I'm already concerned what recent political events could mean for the peace process...
Edit: Taken to its natural conclusion, who gets the deciding vote of linguistic development- Birmingham, England, York, England, an East End Londoner, or a board from the county of Essex? They will all speak quite differently, but they're all English. Who is "true" English?
So, so, so agree with this.
Brilliant, all of it.
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@stanmann571 wrote: »blueyandcrazee wrote: »We also call fizzy drinks..like coke..a bottle of pop. Do you say that in america?
Yes... in fact, in some places everything is a coke... pepsi, sprite, mt dew, root beer.
^^THIS
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I don't like to discriminate the Pepsi Company by calling everything a coke. It's a soda to me. LOL1
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browneyedgirl749 wrote: »I don't like to discriminate the Pepsi Company by calling everything a coke. It's a soda to me. LOL
Soda to me too, but years ago my cousins from Michigan told me if you ordered a soda there, you'd get an ice cream soda.
I told them if you ordered a pop in New Jersey you'd get a father. (I was a kid, this was the best I could come up with, sue me.) 1 -
browneyedgirl749 wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »and while we're at it.... why is it acceptable for the Brits to drive on the wrong side of the road?
it's dangerous!
Lots of countries drive on what we think is the wrong side of the road. I lived in Japan, their steering wheel is on the right side of the car, drive on the left side of the street.
Japan: they need to get with the program and get their whole driving thing straightened out0 -
Or you could simply read some books on linguistics by the people who've sort of done that. No need to re-invent the wheel and develop the combustion engine when you can buy a cheap reconditioned Toyota.English belongs to the English so I'll always love them for giving us the most amazing language on this planet.
The majesty of English vocabulary and its unrivaled lyrical qualities make the beauty potential of poetry, literature and song transcendent when expressed in full. There's a reason why English is the most spoken language on the planet. It's truly amazing and has the potential for unparalleled refinement, unlike most other languages.
So I cringe when I hear the Brits, but the English in particular, butchering the English language. Veg, uni, mash, carer, etc. Please, please stop it. You're the true ancestral gatekeepers of your own magnificent language. Protect it and honor it or no one else will.
(Sorry to get all serious about it. Just a peeve of mine.)
English doesn't exclusively belong to the English and the language is constantly evolving and changing, including slang, in England as it is elsewhere. (And slang has been noted in virtually every society throughout history anywhere across the globe that has left written records.) The English can not "preserve" what changes constantly, generation by generation. NO language spoken anywhere is its own original form. Original English (so to speak, as even the word "English" is not its own original word) is unreadable to, I would bet, greater than 98% of the population - you'd have to have specifically studied it; Google to see what I mean.
English does not "belong" to the British; it is today an extreme evolution of an original already changing language that came, more or less, from (today's) Germany and combined with other languages. It has never been stagnant or stationery. Ever. And it has never been spoken "just" in England as its own evolution and changes made their way back and influenced today's German root languages as well.
Just my own pet peeve, as a Language Arts major. The "preserve dying societies" was a 19th century construct from the German-born father of anthropology, Franz Boaz, and was within a few generations realized to be a fallacy as there is no way to trace an original anything...including language.
By the way, you use a lot of non-original, so to speak, English in your post right down to grammatical structure (for instance, adjective placement) and slang ("butchering" when used in a nonphysical context).
English and s NOT superior, BTW, and does not have more potential for refinement than other languages; in fact, we are LESS specific and, if you will, refined in, for example, not giving genders to our adjectives, not giving different designations to extended family members based on which side of the family they came from, and gosh, many many many !any othernways. I lobe English, it is my jam, but be real.
It does indeed belong to the English. That's why it and they are called English. We have borrowed it along with everyone else who has borrowed it. It's theirs, they initiated and developed it and that's that. The glory belongs to them. And the criticism, where it's warranted.
No, indeed. It did not "belong" to the English from the beginning, as I have pointed out in the exchange of languages from its inception, going back (as we understand it; this is never directly linear nor universal; as I said "original" anything is a fallacy when it comes to anthropology) 1500 years+ but farther back than that in (modern-day) Germany, as well as having been "sent back," so to speak, to other nations during the very transitional early Middle Ages.
And no, the English are not called the English because they speak anything even loosely approximating the original (as far as we can tell) language of the continental European Angles, to wit:
They are called "the English" because of politics and timing, just as Britain isn't called Britain because it's Italian (Britain being a Latin word delivered by the temporarily victorious Romans).
If you want to talk about English "belonging to" the English you need to pre-date the accelerated spread of the language throughout the globe about two centuries ago. Is that the "original" English you wish to preserve? Have you read any of it?
It is not called English because it permanently belongs to the English. Original forms of English as we understand them, in England specifically are virtually unreadable to us, to wit:
If you want to say that belongs to the English, you will be loosely right (very loosely as it was also being spoken in a somewhat modified format in, as I pointed out, parts of Europe).
English "belongs to" the people speaking it. NO language is an island and as I stated, every language evolves...including where it was "originally" (if you will) utilized.
And again. If it should be "preserved," what should it be preserved "to"? How far back? If you don't like "today's" slang in Britain you'll need to do a little etymological digging to see how many centuries back it goes (you'll be surprised).
But since you say it all belongs to the Brits anyway, then you have no cause, by your own "rules," to tell them what they can and can't keep, so the point is moot.
Of course they're called English and the language they DEVELOPED and STRUCTURED is called English because of politics. So? The borders of England were also developed and put in place by politics. Does that mean England, its official language and its native, ancestral population does not exist? Are these facts and identities imaginary and moot? No, not as far as I'm concerned.
And if England is Italian, why isn't it a colony of Italy? Silliness.
Why don't we go back to the Cro-Magnon era to determine the true origins of everything we call real today and dismiss the rest. Or wait, that might involve going back to uni and spending many years and a bundle of cash on a useless anthropology degree to argue semantics endlessly. Instead of talking about real things that matter to real people in keeping with basic common sense.
Have a nice day. And winky poo emoticons to you too.
David Crystal writes very well for the layman.
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English belongs to the English so I'll always love them for giving us the most amazing language on this planet.
The majesty of English vocabulary and its unrivaled lyrical qualities make the beauty potential of poetry, literature and song transcendent when expressed in full. There's a reason why English is the most spoken language on the planet. It's truly amazing and has the potential for unparalleled refinement, unlike most other languages.
So I cringe when I hear the Brits, but the English in particular, butchering the English language. Veg, uni, mash, carer, etc. Please, please stop it. You're the true ancestral gatekeepers of your own magnificent language. Protect it and honor it or no one else will.
(Sorry to get all serious about it. Just a peeve of mine.)
English doesn't exclusively belong to the English and the language is constantly evolving and changing, including slang, in England as it is elsewhere. (And slang has been noted in virtually every society throughout history anywhere across the globe that has left written records.) The English can not "preserve" what changes constantly, generation by generation. NO language spoken anywhere is its own original form. Original English (so to speak, as even the word "English" is not its own original word) is unreadable to, I would bet, greater than 98% of the population - you'd have to have specifically studied it; Google to see what I mean.
English does not "belong" to the British; it is today an extreme evolution of an original already changing language that came, more or less, from (today's) Germany and combined with other languages. It has never been stagnant or stationery. Ever. And it has never been spoken "just" in England as its own evolution and changes made their way back and influenced today's German root languages as well.
Just my own pet peeve, as a Language Arts major. The "preserve dying societies" was a 19th century construct from the German-born father of anthropology, Franz Boaz, and was within a few generations realized to be a fallacy as there is no way to trace an original anything...including language.
By the way, you use a lot of non-original, so to speak, English in your post right down to grammatical structure (for instance, adjective placement) and slang ("butchering" when used in a nonphysical context).
English and s NOT superior, BTW, and does not have more potential for refinement than other languages; in fact, we are LESS specific and, if you will, refined in, for example, not giving genders to our adjectives, not giving different designations to extended family members based on which side of the family they came from, and gosh, many many many !any othernways. I lobe English, it is my jam, but be real.
It does indeed belong to the English. That's why it and they are called English. We have borrowed it along with everyone else who has borrowed it. It's theirs, they initiated and developed it and that's that. The glory belongs to them. And the criticism, where it's warranted.
No, indeed. It did not "belong" to the English from the beginning, as I have pointed out in the exchange of languages from its inception, going back (as we understand it; this is never directly linear nor universal; as I said "original" anything is a fallacy when it comes to anthropology) 1500 years+ but farther back than that in (modern-day) Germany, as well as having been "sent back," so to speak, to other nations during the very transitional early Middle Ages.
And no, the English are not called the English because they speak anything even loosely approximating the original (as far as we can tell) language of the continental European Angles, to wit:
They are called "the English" because of politics and timing, just as Britain isn't called Britain because it's Italian (Britain being a Latin word delivered by the temporarily victorious Romans).
If you want to talk about English "belonging to" the English you need to pre-date the accelerated spread of the language throughout the globe about two centuries ago. Is that the "original" English you wish to preserve? Have you read any of it?
It is not called English because it permanently belongs to the English. Original forms of English as we understand them, in England specifically are virtually unreadable to us, to wit:
If you want to say that belongs to the English, you will be loosely right (very loosely as it was also being spoken in a somewhat modified format in, as I pointed out, parts of Europe).
English "belongs to" the people speaking it. NO language is an island and as I stated, every language evolves...including where it was "originally" (if you will) utilized.
And again. If it should be "preserved," what should it be preserved "to"? How far back? If you don't like "today's" slang in Britain you'll need to do a little etymological digging to see how many centuries back it goes (you'll be surprised).
But since you say it all belongs to the Brits anyway, then you have no cause, by your own "rules," to tell them what they can and can't keep, so the point is moot.
Of course they're called English and the language they DEVELOPED and STRUCTURED is called English because of politics. So? The borders of England were also developed and put in place by politics. Does that mean England, its official language and its native, ancestral population does not exist? Are these facts and identities imaginary and moot? No, not as far as I'm concerned.
And if England is Italian, why isn't it a colony of Italy? Silliness.
Why don't we go back to the Cro-Magnon era to determine the true origins of everything we call real today and dismiss the rest. Or wait, that might involve going back to uni and spending many years and a bundle of cash on a useless anthropology degree to argue semantics endlessly. Instead of talking about real things that matter to real people in keeping with basic common sense.
Have a nice day. And winky poo emoticons to you too.
Wow!
Sorry that logic upsets you. I'll back away now.
As for the rest...that was kind of an odd jumble of things I never actually said (England ISN'T Italian, you didn't understand that? Maybe re-read for clarity?), culminating with, interestingly, your making my point for me with the Cro-Magnon comment, so thank you for that, anyway.
But I can see I have upset you, so apologies and you are free to believe what you wish, as anybody is.
p.s. You're ranting a lot, but you still haven't said what form of English, in which local dialect/style, and which time period/how far back (???) you wish to "preserve". If you did that might help. It might not but you never know...perhaps clarify that? Just "don't say veg anymore" doesn't really help a lot. Thanks for any clarification you can give so we even know what you're talking about.
2 -
Motorsheen wrote: »browneyedgirl749 wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »and while we're at it.... why is it acceptable for the Brits to drive on the wrong side of the road?
it's dangerous!
Lots of countries drive on what we think is the wrong side of the road. I lived in Japan, their steering wheel is on the right side of the car, drive on the left side of the street.
Japan: they need to get with the program and get their whole driving thing straightened out
Try having the first time you got behind the wheel be in a country backwards from America. When I came back to the states, it took a bit to get used to. Luckily I had a couple years before I got my license. (I was 14 when I came back to the states)0 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »You can't really borrow languages. They're not library books. More like free shareware apps for communication.
Politically, I feel vehement statements about how other nations are only borrowing English and don't have the right to mod their forced download, so to speak, are unfortunate, given, well, the British Empire, the use of language as a colonisation tool (not just Britain- the French particularly skilled at this as well, actually) and historical efforts made to enforce English usage and eradicate other languages.
Also politically, the UK has four countries/principalities, all of whom use English as a working language, and all of whom have variations thereof. Only one of those nations is called England, and over my dead body do the Scots and Welsh and Northern Irish get told their regional usages are invalid. It'll be enough to trigger #IndyRef2, and my nerves can't stand it. I'm already concerned what recent political events could mean for the peace process...
Edit: Taken to its natural conclusion, who gets the deciding vote of linguistic development- Birmingham, England, York, England, an East End Londoner, or a board from the county of Essex? They will all speak quite differently, but they're all English. Who is "true" English?
York, York is true English. ;P
Anyways ruddy Yanks coming on 'ere telling us we' butchering are own language on't t'internet, dunno tha bloody born dutha?
Seriously though I love the different flavours of English and you wouldn't get half the anecdotes if we were all the same, my favourite was casually asking an American for a "rubber" when I was trying to correct a pencil drawing, they'd never heard a pencil eraser called that before...3 -
animatorswearbras wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »You can't really borrow languages. They're not library books. More like free shareware apps for communication.
Politically, I feel vehement statements about how other nations are only borrowing English and don't have the right to mod their forced download, so to speak, are unfortunate, given, well, the British Empire, the use of language as a colonisation tool (not just Britain- the French particularly skilled at this as well, actually) and historical efforts made to enforce English usage and eradicate other languages.
Also politically, the UK has four countries/principalities, all of whom use English as a working language, and all of whom have variations thereof. Only one of those nations is called England, and over my dead body do the Scots and Welsh and Northern Irish get told their regional usages are invalid. It'll be enough to trigger #IndyRef2, and my nerves can't stand it. I'm already concerned what recent political events could mean for the peace process...
Edit: Taken to its natural conclusion, who gets the deciding vote of linguistic development- Birmingham, England, York, England, an East End Londoner, or a board from the county of Essex? They will all speak quite differently, but they're all English. Who is "true" English?
York, York is true English. ;P
Anyways ruddy Yanks coming on 'ere telling us we' butchering are own language on't t'internet, dunno tha bloody born dutha?
Seriously though I love the different flavours of English and you wouldn't get half the anecdotes if we were all the same, my favourite was casually asking an American for a "rubber" when I was trying to correct a pencil drawing, they'd never heard a pencil eraser called that before...
Yup! (And I'll take your word for the York thing...you're the expert...)
I love, love, love variations in language. I love playing with language...the world is richer for all the many different ways we express ourselves, even in "our own" language, and yes...it IS ours. Indeed, messing around with language can mean many different things and is at its base a form of self-expression. Conformity and uniformity don't really have a place in any language I've ever heard of, because we're not robots. We're humans, and we change...every single one of us. 1 -
Did someone write that Americans call the bonnet of a car a "hat"????
Oh my word! It's a hood not a hat.....0
This discussion has been closed.
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