Lifting Heavy is considered what?

TheSink

If you can lift it more than 8 times, it's not heavy enough.

This is absolutely terrible advice for the OP.

If someone is not used to lifting weights, you DO NOT want them to lift heavier than they're able to. OP is obviously someone without weight lifting experience, so to suggest to them putting on more weight than they are ready for is a) physically dangerous and b) psychologically dangerous. You don't want someone to hurt themself or become discouraged.

I don't currently do this program, but would like to in the future: Stronglifts 5x5. I have read fantastic things about it, here and elsewhere. As part of the program, the creator actually suggests starting with the bar. THE BAR. Then, each subsequent workout, you add 5 pounds. 3 times a week. This accomplishes several things, but mainly it forces you to work on technique first, while building strength and confidence. If you go in trying to lift more than you're ready for, I guarantee you won't be lifting weights for very long.

ironanimal

If, instead of going up to the next weight, you slowed down the movement so you are intensifying the exercise would this have the same effect? That way you are cutting out any momentum which might mean you are not really lifting the weight through the full range of movement.

That would be an increase in time under tension, generating a stronger hypertrophy response and probably making the exercise 'easier' over time, but not increasing maximal strength. Which is fine, if your goals are largely aesthetic or you're not concerned with increasing strength beyond a certain point.

CorvusCorax77

If, instead of going up to the next weight, you slowed down the movement so you are intensifying the exercise would this have the same effect? That way you are cutting out any momentum which might mean you are not really lifting the weight through the full range of movement.

Momentum is used in some styles of lifting. Not in the style I do. When I OHP, it's not using momentum. But if I use momentum, I can do way more.

ironanimal

If you can lift it more than 8 times, it's not heavy enough.

This is absolutely terrible advice for the OP.

If someone is not used to lifting weights, you DO NOT want them to lift heavier than they're able to. OP is obviously someone without weight lifting experience, so to suggest to them putting on more weight than they are ready for is a) physically dangerous and b) psychologically dangerous. You don't want someone to hurt themself or become discouraged.

I don't currently do this program, but would like to in the future: Stronglifts 5x5. I have read fantastic things about it, here and elsewhere. As part of the program, the creator actually suggests starting with the bar. THE BAR. Then, each subsequent workout, you add 5 pounds. 3 times a week. This accomplishes several things, but mainly it forces you to work on technique first, while building strength and confidence. If you go in trying to lift more than you're ready for, I guarantee you won't be lifting weights for very long.

If they can lift it 8 times, them not being able to lift it correctly once isn't really a concern...

CorvusCorax77

If you can lift it more than 8 times, it's not heavy enough.

This is absolutely terrible advice for the OP.

If someone is not used to lifting weights, you DO NOT want them to lift heavier than they're able to. OP is obviously someone without weight lifting experience, so to suggest to them putting on more weight than they are ready for is a) physically dangerous and b) psychologically dangerous. You don't want someone to hurt themself or become discouraged.

I don't currently do this program, but would like to in the future: Stronglifts 5x5. I have read fantastic things about it, here and elsewhere. As part of the program, the creator actually suggests starting with the bar. THE BAR. Then, each subsequent workout, you add 5 pounds. 3 times a week. This accomplishes several things, but mainly it forces you to work on technique first, while building strength and confidence. If you go in trying to lift more than you're ready for, I guarantee you won't be lifting weights for very long.

If they can lift it 8 times, them not being able to lift it correctly once isn't really a concern...

Does not compute.

If you are curling your back deadlifting too much weight 8 times, you did it 8 times incorrectly and will eventually wonder what you did to your back.

If you are doing reps of 10 quarter squats, you are not doing squats and are over estimating your strength.

You could be benching 80 lbs, but without proper form you could tear your rotator cuff.

Form is important.

ETA: I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE WHEN I SAY SOFT TISSUE INJURIES SUCK!

ironanimal

@Corvus - cut the quotes cos it's just above anywho. I completely agree with you, but it would be the same story doing 30 bad reps of deadlifts. I'd never suggest anyone attempt 1RM until they have a lot of experience under their belt, but using too little weight can be non-productive to learning correct form as well, since there may not be enough resistance to make you aware of the need to tighten your traps, contract your glutes etc.

SharonCMach

I will start out light and slowly add weight, I don't want to injure myself.

CorvusCorax77

@Corvus - cut the quotes cos it's just above anywho.....

you never seen a post come up in between while you are writing your response, huh? And I think for a beginner, it's not about learning to tighten these muscles and those muscles. Beginner form is where do you put your feet and what way do your knees go and keep your back straight and full ROM. That other stuff comes once you have the basics down.

CorvusCorax77

I will start out light and slowly add weight, I don't want to injure myself.

That's smart! If you need help with form, there is a lot of resources on the web. But there is also a lot of MFP users who been through this. You could join a lifting group- lots of people post videos and will offer form advice/feedback.

Yogi_Carl

Thanks Ironanimal and CorvusCorax77. My interest would be in being equally strong in all degrees of a movement from start to finish and back and being able to stop and hold at any point along the way, rather than being able to explosively push or pull a weight from start to finish.

An example would be High Plank, lowering slowly to Low Plank and being able to halt the movement any time between - obviously as a strength supplement to my yoga. There are other examples.

I can see where both explosive and intensity-over-time approaches would be beneficial.

===
For the original posted question - I think so long as correct form is observed in every rep in every set, a maximum of 8 reps is not a dangerous or injurous number to go for - as a beginner you would naturally be using a lighter weight anyway. No-one is suggesting you take a weight that is overly heavy (for you) and then struggle to rep it 5 times. The rep range is correct for strength gains and you just select a weight that you can rep for that number of reps in good (strict) form.

1113cw

I will start out light and slowly add weight, I don't want to injure myself.

I'm with the OP.. I love the fact that everyone is giving a ton of information which is good (for me anyways but I'm clueless) but with the ROM and RM, I think I may be even more confused. I don't mean to hijack the thread but that's what the forum are for right? To answer questions that most likely more than 1 person has and share info. Which is one of the things I love about this place.

I might be way off but I read the OP's question more as a basic beginner, where do I start and what do I do. Yes, I've read that form is extremely important or else you'll injure yourself thereby defeating the purpose. But I'm (and I think the OP was as well. again could be totally wrong) just looking for basic, beginner suggestions.. sorta like Strength Training for Dummies, LOL!

Ely82010

Yes, but better to lift only 8 to 10 times with GOOD FORM, that try to lift heavier weights and get injured. Specially when the OP is a newbie.

Dragonwolf

@Corvus - cut the quotes cos it's just above anywho.....

you never seen a post come up in between while you are writing your response, huh? And I think for a beginner, it's not about learning to tighten these muscles and those muscles. Beginner form is where do you put your feet and what way do your knees go and keep your back straight and full ROM. That other stuff comes once you have the basics down.

You're both right, though. For example, flexing your traps while doing a back squat will not only help support the bar (keeping it off of your vertebrae), but it will help you keep your back straight and shoulders back as you move through the motion. With a lighter weight, not doing it isn't so bad, but as the weight gets heavier, this becomes more important.

CorvusCorax77

@Corvus - cut the quotes cos it's just above anywho.....

you never seen a post come up in between while you are writing your response, huh? And I think for a beginner, it's not about learning to tighten these muscles and those muscles. Beginner form is where do you put your feet and what way do your knees go and keep your back straight and full ROM. That other stuff comes once you have the basics down.

You're both right, though. For example, flexing your traps while doing a back squat will not only help support the bar (keeping it off of your vertebrae), but it will help you keep your back straight and shoulders back as you move through the motion. With a lighter weight, not doing it isn't so bad, but as the weight gets heavier, this becomes more important.

I think our disagreement is about how light to start. Because he said something about "if you can lift more than 8 reps, it's not heavy" and "if they can lift it more than 8 times them not being able to lift it once correctly isn't a concern"

and I'm saying that telling someone that they should shoot for something they can't lift more than 8 times and then telling them if they can do it 8 times they don't have to worry about form, he's setting someone up for an injury. Maybe he clarifies later that he thinks too light is bad because you wont' have enough weight ot know you need to "tighten your traps." But we are talking about a beginner here. Before she goes for trap tightening on her back, she might want to know where to hold the bar, to not let her knees buckle, to hold her head up, to keep her back straight, how far down to go.

For the lady who says she was confused with ROM and RM....
"ROM" is "range of motion"... meaning if you are bench pressing, you need to do the full range of motion. If you only move the bar a few inches and can't do it all the way down and back up, you need to lower the weight.

THE ORM "one rep max" is important just if you are looking at those charts where it says a "beginner" does 70 lbs squats, they don't mean one set of 8 at 70 lbs. They mean a calculated one rep max at 70 lbs. Which might mean more like a set of 8 at 65 lbs or something.

Starting with just the bar is, in my opinion, a fantastic idea.


ETA: as an added note: I don't have the bar on my vertebrae when doing a back squat because I do a low bar back squat.

Dragonwolf

I will start out light and slowly add weight, I don't want to injure myself.

I'm with the OP.. I love the fact that everyone is giving a ton of information which is good (for me anyways but I'm clueless) but with the ROM and RM, I think I may be even more confused. I don't mean to hijack the thread but that's what the forum are for right? To answer questions that most likely more than 1 person has and share info. Which is one of the things I love about this place.

I might be way off but I read the OP's question more as a basic beginner, where do I start and what do I do. Yes, I've read that form is extremely important or else you'll injure yourself thereby defeating the purpose. But I'm (and I think the OP was as well. again could be totally wrong) just looking for basic, beginner suggestions.. sorta like Strength Training for Dummies, LOL!

Check out the New Rules of Lifting books for information on getting started. Starting Strength also has a bunch of good information (and a simpler routine).

Additionally, if you can, talk to a trainer, so you can learn how to do the routines with good form, and use a mirror whenever you can. Barring a trainer, head to YouTube and find Mark Riptoe's videos on proper form, and don't be afraid to ask one of the guys at the gym to help you. Most will be nice enough to do so, since most guys actually love it when a woman comes to lift (guys generally like strong women, it actually disappoints most of them when they see women who can't lift a toy poodle), and they don't want to see other lifters in general get hurt due to bad form.

The most basic routines will focus on what's known as "The Big 3" - squats, bench press, and deadlift. They'll also often have a couple of other aux lifts, such as the bent over shoulder row (or Pendlay lift) and overhead press. Powerlifting routines may have the clean, jerk, and snatch (sounds dirty, doesn't it? ), which build upon the deadlift (so if you find you like deadlifts, feel free to give these a try after you get some experience).

Check out the "third world squat" (aka - toddler squat, grok squat). It's a squat that should come natural to all humans, but most first world adults can't do it (we've been sitting in chairs for too long). It's an awesome squat to do for a number of reasons, including getting the full range of motion of your hips, knees, and ankles, which is very important for barbell squats and deadlifts.

rick_po

I'm with the OP.. I love the fact that everyone is giving a ton of information which is good (for me anyways but I'm clueless) but with the ROM and RM, I think I may be even more confused.

ROM = range of motion. Usually you want your lifts to go through a long range of motion, so you get more benefit out of every rep. But every lift has its own form quirks. IMO, good form is the biggest part of learning a strength program..

RM = "X rep max". The maximum weight you can lift X times. 1RM, or one rep max, is the most weight you can lift just once, and is a semi-standard measure of strength. Normally, you're not doing just one rep, so you also see 5RM, which is the weight you lift when you fail after 5 successful reps.

Dragonwolf

I think our disagreement is about how light to start. Because he said something about "if you can lift more than 8 reps, it's not heavy" and "if they can lift it more than 8 times them not being able to lift it once correctly isn't a concern"

and I'm saying that telling someone that they should shoot for something they can't lift more than 8 times and then telling them if they can do it 8 times they don't have to worry about form, he's setting someone up for an injury. Maybe he clarifies later that he thinks too light is bad because you wont' have enough weight ot know you need to "tighten your traps." But we are talking about a beginner here. Before she goes for trap tightening on her back, she might want to know where to hold the bar, to not let her knees buckle, to hold her head up, to keep her back straight, how far down to go.

For the lady who says she was confused with ROM and RM....
"ROM" is "range of motion"... meaning if you are bench pressing, you need to do the full range of motion. If you only move the bar a few inches and can't do it all the way down and back up, you need to lower the weight.

THE ORM "one rep max" is important just if you are looking at those charts where it says a "beginner" does 70 lbs squats, they don't mean one set of 8 at 70 lbs. They mean a calculated one rep max at 70 lbs. Which might mean more like a set of 8 at 65 lbs or something.

Starting with just the bar is, in my opinion, a fantastic idea.

I think his answer was a simplified version of "how much is 'heavy'?" Or, in other words, he read the title and didn't read, or ignored the underlying matter of the body of the post (that the OP is a complete newbie).

SharonCMach

Lots of great information everybody, thank you so much. Starting with just the bar sounds about right for me!! :laugh:

1113cw

Check out the New Rules of Lifting books for information on getting started. Starting Strength also has a bunch of good information (and a simpler routine).

Additionally, if you can, talk to a trainer, so you can learn how to do the routines with good form, and use a mirror whenever you can. Barring a trainer, head to YouTube and find Mark Riptoe's videos on proper form, and don't be afraid to ask one of the guys at the gym to help you. Most will be nice enough to do so, since most guys actually love it when a woman comes to lift (guys generally like strong women, it actually disappoints most of them when they see women who can't lift a toy poodle), and they don't want to see other lifters in general get hurt due to bad form.

The most basic routines will focus on what's known as "The Big 3" - squats, bench press, and deadlift. They'll also often have a couple of other aux lifts, such as the bent over shoulder row (or Pendlay lift) and overhead press. Powerlifting routines may have the clean, jerk, and snatch (sounds dirty, doesn't it? ), which build upon the deadlift (so if you find you like deadlifts, feel free to give these a try after you get some experience).

Check out the "third world squat" (aka - toddler squat, grok squat). It's a squat that should come natural to all humans, but most first world adults can't do it (we've been sitting in chairs for too long). It's an awesome squat to do for a number of reasons, including getting the full range of motion of your hips, knees, and ankles, which is very important for barbell squats and deadlifts.

^^^ This!!!
Thank you!!!! :bigsmile:

ironanimal

I think his answer was a simplified version of "how much is 'heavy'?" Or, in other words, he read the title and didn't read, or ignored the underlying matter of the body of the post (that the OP is a complete newbie).

Yeah, that. It was an oversimplified response to answer the title question.