Was recommended not to do Stronglifts..
Replies
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OP: "He recommended I only work out on one muscle group at a time, especially being that I had never lifted before."
It has been my experience that all the muscle groups in my body work best as a cohesive unit. Therefore, working as many groups as possible at the same time seems to make sense. So, I recommend compound lifts that incorporate the entire body as one unit. My $0.02 for what you think it's worth.
If you want to get strong then yeah, lift with your body. You'll get a strong body. That's why you've got 120 lb female powerlifters outpressing the 230 lb Bro's with the puffy fluffy muscles who get their swole on by doing 18 different curl variations twice a week.
Isolation exercises will only get you strong at that exercise with that isolated muscle.3 -
"My goal is not rapid progress, or body building. Its just overall health. I am 7lbs away from my goal weight, and minus a stomach pouch, am happier with my body now. This is just to keep active, and get away from the boring cardio I had been doing."
If your goal is not bodybuilding I wouldn't recommend doing a bodybuilding/body part split routine...
And even then, the workout you described that he laid out for you does not sound optimal.
ETA- As mentioned, virtually anything will work for beginners initially.
And as for getting help from friends/someone who has had decent success in lifting, what worked for them isn't always whats best for you. I worked with a guy who squats 1000 lbs, seems like he'd know what he's talking about right? Well his program didn't have enough squat volume for me, and I'm not an equipped lifter. It was not optimal and I did not make much progress with my bench or my squat.7 -
Since the overwhelming response was not to follow his plan...good luck not doing the most effective thing that you could be doing.
Also, have you investigated why squatting causes you problems? There are a lot of squat variations and it's a basic human movement. Simple "not squatting" should be your absolute last resort, not your 1st option.
Torn meniscus, last time I squatted weight it became painful and injured again. Have since built muscle around the knee with dumbbell type squats, but just cant sell myself on the idea of adding weight again.quiksylver296 wrote: »Since the overwhelming response was not to follow his plan...good luck not doing the most effective thing that you could be doing.
Also, have you investigated why squatting causes you problems? There are a lot of squat variations and it's a basic human movement. Simple "not squatting" should be your absolute last resort, not your 1st option.
This was discussed in depth in her last thread...
The one where she decided she was going to try SLs.
But she's not "all over the board."
Because I decided to try Stronglifts, and then decided it may not be the perfect match for me, I am all over the board?
Look, I am not fighting with you all (except the idiot name calling, thats annoying), and I agree with what you are saying. I am not sitting here preaching that he knows all, but I am going to see what he has me do at my next session, and then decide from there whether to trash his workouts or not. I'm sure if I asked him to help me include the other workouts, he would in a heart beat. This is just what HE recommended, and he also said for me to find what works for me, and what I want to do. I felt the burn from the workout I did last night and enjoyed it. It was great having someone teach me form, and go through each step with me. I needed that. Once I have a grip on what the heck I am doing, then I probably move to my own program away from his.
This is my first week EVER lifting. I have no knowledge of what it should feel like, what it should look like, how progressing feels yet. Someone offered to help me, and I accepted because I trusted them. What he had me do did not put me in harms way, and made sense to me. I agreed with what he said because I dont know squat when it comes to weight lifting. Like I said, "Once I have a grip on what the heck I am doing, then I probably move to my own program away from his."2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »OP: "He recommended I only work out on one muscle group at a time, especially being that I had never lifted before."
It has been my experience that all the muscle groups in my body work best as a cohesive unit. Therefore, working as many groups as possible at the same time seems to make sense. So, I recommend compound lifts that incorporate the entire body as one unit. My $0.02 for what you think it's worth.
If you want to get strong then yeah, lift with your body. You'll get a strong body. That's why you've got 120 lb female powerlifters outpressing the 230 lb Bro's with the puffy fluffy muscles who get their swole on by doing 18 different curl variations twice a week.
Isolation exercises will only get you strong at that exercise with that isolated muscle.
See THIS reply is helpful. I understand what you are saying, and is something that I will bring to his attention also.1 -
Without reading the whole thread I would just like to point out that bodybuilders focus on one or two parts a day a week, and powerlifters focus on one part to strengthen weak points in their lift.
Fullbody workouts are an excellent way to begin a lifting routine. I do a push/pull split and its working fantastic for my weightloss. AND I was bodybuilding years ago, but I got away from that it's too strict. I still do all the major lifts deadlifts, squats, bench press, overhead press and other exercise to target accessory muscles.
Shame on your guy friend trying to force a program on you. Do more research on whats best for you. If anything the only advice the guy should be giving you is on lifting form. But even then...0 -
But how do you feel about his recommendation not to do Strong-lifts due to working too many muscle groups in one day? Would just like to hear everyone's opinions.
To get right to OP's question...
Working 1 body part per day will be, at best, inefficient. It's probably not a terrible thing for the first month or so while you learn the lifts and techniques and get accustomed to lifting, but once you are rolling along, you'll see much better results across the board hitting each muscle group multiple times per week. Working 1 body part per session will make it really hard to hit all muscle groups multiple times per week, which is why it's generally better to do full body 3x week.6 -
But how do you feel about his recommendation not to do Strong-lifts due to working too many muscle groups in one day? Would just like to hear everyone's opinions.
To get right to OP's question...
Working 1 body part per day will be, at best, inefficient. It's probably not a terrible thing for the first month or so while you learn the lifts and techniques and get accustomed to lifting, but once you are rolling along, you'll see much better results across the board hitting each muscle group multiple times per week. Working 1 body part per session will make it really hard to hit all muscle groups multiple times per week, which is why it's generally better to do full body 3x week.
True! Completely agree with everything said here.0 -
yoherbs421 wrote: »
Shame on your guy friend trying to force a program on you. Do more research on whats best for you. If anything the only advice the guy should be giving you is on lifting form. But even then...
I was never forced upon. I asked him for help, and this is what he recommended. I went to him because of his success and results, and he offered to help. The only thing he said was that he does not personally recommend that I do Strong-lifts. Shame on you for jumping to conclusions.But how do you feel about his recommendation not to do Strong-lifts due to working too many muscle groups in one day? Would just like to hear everyone's opinions.
To get right to OP's question...
Working 1 body part per day will be, at best, inefficient. It's probably not a terrible thing for the first month or so while you learn the lifts and techniques and get accustomed to lifting, but once you are rolling along, you'll see much better results across the board hitting each muscle group multiple times per week. Working 1 body part per session will make it really hard to hit all muscle groups multiple times per week, which is why it's generally better to do full body 3x week.
Exactly my thought. Which is why I let him tell me what to do last night and etc. Because I dont have a clue about the lifts, what muscles they hit, what they feel like, or anything. It was very helpful to have him there guiding me through each movement, and then telling me what to do next.
I figured once I got the general idea of what to do down, I would break out on my own path.
But apparently to some even listening to this guy for 3 seconds was a terrible mistake, and I am an idiot for taking an idiots advice. *sarcasm*0 -
yoherbs421 wrote: »
Shame on your guy friend trying to force a program on you. Do more research on whats best for you. If anything the only advice the guy should be giving you is on lifting form. But even then...
I was never forced upon. I asked him for help, and this is what he recommended. I went to him because of his success and results, and he offered to help. The only thing he said was that he does not personally recommend that I do Strong-lifts.Shame on you for jumping to conclusions.But how do you feel about his recommendation not to do Strong-lifts due to working too many muscle groups in one day? Would just like to hear everyone's opinions.
To get right to OP's question...
Working 1 body part per day will be, at best, inefficient. It's probably not a terrible thing for the first month or so while you learn the lifts and techniques and get accustomed to lifting, but once you are rolling along, you'll see much better results across the board hitting each muscle group multiple times per week. Working 1 body part per session will make it really hard to hit all muscle groups multiple times per week, which is why it's generally better to do full body 3x week.
Exactly my thought. Which is why I let him tell me what to do last night and etc. Because I dont have a clue about the lifts, what muscles they hit, what they feel like, or anything. It was very helpful to have him there guiding me through each movement, and then telling me what to do next.
I figured once I got the general idea of what to do down, I would break out on my own path.
But apparently to some even listening to this guy for 3 seconds was a terrible mistake, and I am an idiot for taking an idiots advice. *sarcasm*
And thats the problem I had with it, hence my "forcing" comment. Good luck with him.
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But apparently to some even listening to this guy for 3 seconds was a terrible mistake, and I am an idiot for taking an idiots advice. *sarcasm*
In reality, I think the truth is somewhere in between.
Are you an idiot who should be banished from the gym for life? No, certainly not. But I'm also not sure you're doing yourself any favors following his programming. If you want him to help you learn the lifts, that's fine (I assume that he's got reasonable technique having lifted for 10+ years, but that may well NOT be the case, just FYI). Also realize that there is a tendency for this board to have a SL or GTFO mentality... so you should probably have a bit of perspective when considering the source.
Ultimately, there are a number of proven programs for you to choose from. Or you can go out on your own (either do your own thing or follow someone else's programming). 99% of the time, a proven program will be more effective, because it's been proven to be effective. And that's why people recommend them so, uh, enthusiastically.5 -
so you don't want to be a bodybuilder, but you want to follow a bodybuilder's routine??2
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People should not be calling your friend an idiot. That is not nice. He does seem to be using a lot of "bro science" in his advice though. People are not wrong to caution you about that because if he has bro science about something this big, he is probably going to be wrong about a lot of other things as well. It would be one thing if he told you he had a preference for one or the other, but he is pretending to be an authority about something and has displayed that he is not one in his very first piece of advice.
Would you be an idiot to follow only his advice? No, that isn't nice at all. I don't think it's wise though. Go to a professional and get the right advice for you. Unless your friend is a personal trainer, friends don't make good weightlifting coaches. If they did, everyone would be muscular and swole.3 -
yoherbs421 wrote: »
Shame on your guy friend trying to force a program on you. Do more research on whats best for you. If anything the only advice the guy should be giving you is on lifting form. But even then...
I was never forced upon. I asked him for help, and this is what he recommended. I went to him because of his success and results, and he offered to help. The only thing he said was that he does not personally recommend that I do Strong-lifts. Shame on you for jumping to conclusions.But how do you feel about his recommendation not to do Strong-lifts due to working too many muscle groups in one day? Would just like to hear everyone's opinions.
To get right to OP's question...
Working 1 body part per day will be, at best, inefficient. It's probably not a terrible thing for the first month or so while you learn the lifts and techniques and get accustomed to lifting, but once you are rolling along, you'll see much better results across the board hitting each muscle group multiple times per week. Working 1 body part per session will make it really hard to hit all muscle groups multiple times per week, which is why it's generally better to do full body 3x week.
Exactly my thought. Which is why I let him tell me what to do last night and etc. Because I dont have a clue about the lifts, what muscles they hit, what they feel like, or anything. It was very helpful to have him there guiding me through each movement, and then telling me what to do next.
I figured once I got the general idea of what to do down, I would break out on my own path.
But apparently to some even listening to this guy for 3 seconds was a terrible mistake, and I am an idiot for taking an idiots advice. *sarcasm*
I think you would have gotten much less static if you had identified that you were going to "work in" with this guy for a month or so until you felt comfortable enough with your form than by suggesting that you had taken his advice to dump SL.0 -
Well just to add excitement to my day. I will mention that said "guy" is also my boyfriend. (cant wait for the "break up with him" posts that always seem to follow.) Who I've gone to the gym with for a year now, and not once has he interfered with my workouts. I did what I wanted, and he did what he wanted.
Just recently I told him I wanted to start lifting, and asked him to help me. I told him I wanted step by step directions, and he knows my diet better than anyone, my capabilities and my goals. He has a program adjusted to his own needs, so yes, I am sure his plan for me as a beginner was not the best suited. I just needed someone to get me on the right track and help me. He mention we would have to adjust it as we go, but last night he just wanted to start off slow and see where I was at. It was a great introductory workout, and I didnt feel overwhelmed. Honestly I was having a terrible day and it took everything I had to even go. So I felt great after the workout.
Like I have said, once I get an idea of what I am doing, I will look into a program suited for me that will help me advance with my goal of overall better health. I am not going to be body building or competing. I do not wish to have intense muscular strength, or etc. I just wanted a workout that will improve myself, and that wasn't the typical boring cardio workouts I had been doing.
I came here to see opinions and everyone's stance on the program. Not be made to feel like an idiot. Sorry I am not as knowledgeable as everyone here, but this was just intended as conversation.1 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »so you don't want to be a bodybuilder, but you want to follow a bodybuilder's routine??
I want to lift weights. I have never done such before. No I dont "want to follow a bodybuilders routine" but I also wouldnt know what that was if it smacked me in the face.
My lanta, how many times do I have to reiterate that I have no idea what I am doing with weight lifting, which is why I asked for help.0 -
Glad you know him personally enough to be able to identify him as an idiot.
Idiotic recommendation would be a better stance, but even that, I fail to see. I asked for help, he gave me help, and its his fault? Rather it is my fault for asking for help in the first place, right? He's not an idiot for doing a workout which definitely works for him, and trying to tailor it to me. He is not a paid trainer. Hes not a trainer what so ever. I asked him for help, and he did his best. Sure, maybe its not best for me, but I still fail to see why hes an idiot.0 -
I don't think your boyfriend is an idiot at all, I just think he is using what is good for him, to work for you. Listen there are thousands of people every day in the gym with years and years of experience, and a whole lot of them are lifting "wrong" either just doing some generic routine they learned in high-school, or doing what the guy/girl next to them to them to do. There are also a ton of people with terrible form, and so many of these people are in great shape. If you have the time and determination you can get in great shape doing a workout that isn't right for you, with crappy form. The difference with doing a work out that is right for you and using correct form is that you should progress in a manner that's suited for your goals, your body will feel better, and you have a much less chance of getting hurt.
I mean just look at all of the terrible personal trainers out there that are in great shape. They look great so you think they know what they are doing, but they have you doing the same program as the person who has completely different goals. I think if you did research on strong lifts, and it looked good to you, you should say that. I agree it's hard to know what's good for you when you just start, so let a lot of research be your friend.3 -
Glad you know him personally enough to be able to identify him as an idiot.
Idiotic recommendation would be a better stance, but even that, I fail to see. I asked for help, he gave me help, and its his fault? Rather it is my fault for asking for help in the first place, right? He's not an idiot for doing a workout which definitely works for him, and trying to tailor it to me. He is not a paid trainer. Hes not a trainer what so ever. I asked him for help, and he did his best. Sure, maybe its not best for me, but I still fail to see why hes an idiot.
You're going to lose this fight. Just back out now. Take from the thread what you will... ask any follow-up questions you may have... but trying to get people to be "nicer" is probably going to backfire.7 -
Yep ... Looks like you're gonna have to dump him
I 
SL 1 -
I don't think your boyfriend is an idiot at all, I just think he is using what is good for him, to work for you. Listen there are thousands of people every day in the gym with years and years of experience, and a whole lot of them are lifting "wrong" either just doing some generic routine they learned in high-school, or doing what the guy/girl next to them to them to do. There are also a ton of people with terrible form, and so many of these people are in great shape. If you have the time and determination you can get in great shape doing a workout that isn't right for you, with crappy form. The difference with doing a work out that is right for you and using correct form is that you should progress in a manner that's suited for your goals, your body will feel better, and you have a much less chance of getting hurt.
I mean just look at all of the terrible personal trainers out there that are in great shape. They look great so you think they know what they are doing, but they have you doing the same program as the person who has completely different goals. I think if you did research on strong lifts, and it looked good to you, you should say that. I agree it's hard to know what's good for you when you just start, so let a lot of research be your friend.
Thank you for this reply.
I agree that eventually I will ask him to help me with form WHILE I do Stronglifts, but right now I just want to learn from scratch. The research I had found on Stronglifts was proven, and I told him that, he just said he does not prefer that style of program because it did not work for him. Of course he is not a beginner, so no wonder it didnt work for him. I went along with what he said to do to learn. Not because I wanted to dump SL.
I just wanted to see everyones opinion on someone not recommending Stronglifts, and boy, did I get it. Lol
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Ok, I get it now.
I trust my husband with my life, with our kids, with our home, etc. I do not trust my husband to write me a workout program, even if it was successful for him. My husband rolled his eyes when I started lifting (with Stronglifts), mostly because my track record with workouts was laughable. However, he saw me stick with something long term and even started working out with me.
Your man knows what works for him and that's awesome, but that doesn't mean he's the end all, be all of exercise. My advice stands: do what he wrote for you if you'd like and reevaluate to see if you're going in the direction you want .9 -
If you are this touchy and defensive about some Internet advice, now I feel sorry for your boyfriend. Hope he doesn't inadvertently say something to set you off3
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I don't think your boyfriend is an idiot at all, I just think he is using what is good for him, to work for you. Listen there are thousands of people every day in the gym with years and years of experience, and a whole lot of them are lifting "wrong" either just doing some generic routine they learned in high-school, or doing what the guy/girl next to them to them to do. There are also a ton of people with terrible form, and so many of these people are in great shape. If you have the time and determination you can get in great shape doing a workout that isn't right for you, with crappy form. The difference with doing a work out that is right for you and using correct form is that you should progress in a manner that's suited for your goals, your body will feel better, and you have a much less chance of getting hurt.
I mean just look at all of the terrible personal trainers out there that are in great shape. They look great so you think they know what they are doing, but they have you doing the same program as the person who has completely different goals. I think if you did research on strong lifts, and it looked good to you, you should say that. I agree it's hard to know what's good for you when you just start, so let a lot of research be your friend.
Thank you for this reply.
I agree that eventually I will ask him to help me with form WHILE I do Stronglifts, but right now I just want to learn from scratch. The research I had found on Stronglifts was proven, and I told him that, he just said he does not prefer that style of program because it did not work for him. Of course he is not a beginner, so no wonder it didnt work for him. I went along with what he said to do to learn. Not because I wanted to dump SL.
I just wanted to see everyones opinion on someone not recommending Stronglifts, and boy, did I get it. Lol
So you *are* going to do SL's in the future?
Why not have him work with you on the movements you are going to be focusing on for that program then?
DB flys and tricep extensions are not going to help you much to have success doing the SL specific movements...0 -
I am also struggling why someone would want to only work one muscle group at a time. That goes against everything I have ever learned. And if you look at some of the big names in lifting, they all recommend against it too.
Can you help me get some terminology straight? I think of the splits in TLS/BLS as working one muscle group at a time. But, should it not be referred to as such because of all the compound work? TIA!0 -
I think part of the reason she is being so tetchy is because it is her romantic interest.If you are this touchy and defensive about some Internet advice, now I feel sorry for your boyfriend. Hope he doesn't inadvertently say something to set you off
But I agree, seems like a lot of drama.
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Can you help me get some terminology straight? I think of the splits in TLS/BLS as working one muscle group at a time. But, should it not be referred to as such because of all the compound work? TIA!
BLS/TLS focuses on compound lifts with isolation lifts for accessory work.
Many bro-splits focus on isolation work and avoid as many compound lifts as is practical, or at least marginalize them in comparison to the amount of isolation work.
It is uncommon to see someone doing a bodybuilding "bro-split" that includes heavy (~5RM) deadlifts and squats, for instance.
A lot of bro-splits are in the 8RM range if they include squats or deadlifts at all.
Mike Mathews (author of TLS/BLS) has nothing but good things to say about compound lift programs like Starting Strength and Wendler's 5/3/1, in fact he frequently recommends them.
BLS/TLS is a "compound lifts" program like SL5x5, 5/3/1, SS, and many other great choices.
[Broad generalization warning!]
There is more "isolation work" in BLS/TLS and it is there to puff up the muscles so you look better nekkid, i.e. "aesthetics".
In "strength programs" like SS or 5/3/1 there is usually less "isolation work" and it is mostly there to "assist" you with improving your strength and performance in the main compound lifts. Hence "assistance exercises."
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ah- he's the BF- so much is 'splained now with the defensiveness.
my commentary remains the same.
Do a beginner program. He did his best but his best is woefully lacking because he isn't educated on the subject.
So my recommendation would be so skip going to him for advice entirely on this matter since it's clear he isn't the source you need.
I'm with @_dracarys_ I love my husband- dearly- and I trust him with a great deal in my life- including my bank account. But he knows nothing about lifting- and I wouldn't ask him a single question- even though he thinks he knows some things the reality is he doesn't know *kitten* from shinola. Which is fine- but it also means I don't ask him anything.
Do a beginner program. Strong lifts- starting strength or new rules of lifting or strong curves- take videos- research on line forums- hell you can post videos here for feedback- there are a LOT of really knowledgeable people who can help you out.5 -
Well let me just start off with, he is NOT an idiot. Sorry guys, name calling is just not a thing of mine when it comes to people i dont personally know, so I dont really like him being name called when none of you know him. If he didnt know what he was talking about, he wouldnt have the success he has reached now. Granted, every person is different and he admits my plan and his plan will be different. What works for him, will not work for me. He has encouraged me to do whatever program I want, and will help me with whatever program I choose, but this is the plan he offered for me, and offer to tailor to me. I took him up on that advice since I am a beginner and don't know left from right when it comes to lifting.
My goal is not rapid progress, or body building. Its just overall health. I am 7lbs away from my goal weight, and minus a stomach pouch, am happier with my body now. This is just to keep active, and get away from the boring cardio I had been doing.
For the person who said I am all over the place. How? I have been off this past month and have been asking for advice. I did a Jillian Michaels 90 Day Program and then took a month off. How is that all over the place? Unless you meant by advice, then yes I have been looking for advice all over the place.
Also, not sure where the idea that I am only working out once a week came from. I will be working out 2-3 times a week. We have a pretty busy schedule and try to work out as much as we can around that.
Squats were not something I really wanted to tackle, but was going to be willing to try. After much hemming and hauling, I think I like it better that I am not doing them. That is the core of SL, so obviously the SL app is not going to work for me.
Yes, I trust the person who gave me this advice, and did not come here second guessing him. I came here to see others opinions of the advice. Everyone seems to believe different things when it comes to workout plans and after debating last night, I was curious to see others opinions.
Look, I definitely understand what everyone is saying. That as I beginner I am able to work more than one muscle group a session. If anyone has any recommendations to what I should be adding to this routine he provided, I am all ears.I think that most beginners are better off doing full body workouts than body part (or "bro") splits or even upper/lower splits. You can recover a lot easier than people who are more advanced (certainly more easily than somebody who has been lifting for 10 years) and it just makes sense to take advantage of that. Whether it is SL or AllPro's or Fierce 5 or something else, I would stick with full body for now.
Thank you for this reply! This is something I am going to mention to him exactly as you said it. He will undoubtedly help me tailor a program to incorporate this.
So you're only going to work on one body part 2-3x per week? That doesn't really make any sense at all to me. I'm not a tremendous fan of SL 5x5 but then again I have little interest in power lifting...that said, if you're working out 2-3x per week, you really should be doing some other full body program...there are plenty out there and plenty that are more focused on general fitness, etc than SL 5x5.
One body part 2-3x per week really isn't going to do a whole lot for you IMO. One body part per workout is typically done on a 4-5 day per week split to be effective. I'm also not really big on splits unless you really like spending a lot of time in the gym, or you need the volume to put on a lot of muscle mass...ie like a bodybuilder.
ETA: if this is just something to get you familiar with the lifts and ease into things, that's one thing...but as a long term program, no way...either do a split (not a fan) or do a proper full body workout 2-3x per week. I wouldn't run what he is suggesting for more than a couple weeks...maybe a month tops just to learn...after that, a proper program.2 -
I can maaaaaaaybe understand wanting to work individual muscle groups as a beginner, but only in the sense of getting a better understanding of your alignment/range of motion/body awareness. That being said, I'm sure he meant no harm in his suggestion, but certainly you know your body better than anyone else.
There is nothing wrong with StrongLifts, in fact, I started weight training with StrongLifts and saw amazing progress strength-wise. The only reason that I stopped is because my goals included gaining size as well as strength, so I transitioned to PHUL after doing SL for about 4 months.
Like many others have said, isolating one muscle group at a time won't really get you anywhere. Compound lifts that work several muscle groups together (like the ones recommended with SL) are the ones that will help you find more strength overall.
Best of luck whatever you choose!1
This discussion has been closed.
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