Anyone ever try Isagenix or Go Cleanse?
Replies
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The thing I will never understand about meal replacement products is why anyone would want to replace a meal.
I did for about 3 weeks. Then again, I was having surgery to fix a hiatal hernia (3/4 of stomach had moved up into my chest cavity) and had to be on a liquid diet for a week before and 2 weeks after surgery. I guess I wanted the meal replacements because they were better than the constant pain I was in.2 -
Silentpadna wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »
Everyone who was in an MLM and didn't see the light says this.
I've never seen anyone be truthful about it though. They talk about the big checks and the trips and leave out the part where they have to spend $400 per quarter to keep being a seller, and how the "free" trips hit your taxes like an anvil and are far from free, and of course, all the pressure and brainwashing. Oh, and the cars are not free either.
It's called a pyramid SCAM for a reason. The fact that you had a team and made money off their hard work makes you complicit. Not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Sounds like you had a bad experience or someone (or several someones) you know did. I'm not surprised by that. Not all experiences are bad ones. Many believe it is a get rich scheme...and most times it is. I didn't go into the business blind like some do thinking that I could just get a bunch of people to start selling it and then I would be able to sit back and let them do all the work. I DID the work, always. I sold Tastefully Simple for ten years. There was no light to see. I was successful. Most are/were not. I am now a full time financial analyst. I understand business. I understand finances. I understand profit. I ran a business. Most who try MLM are unsuccessful for a number of reasons, mostly thinking that it's easy and not real work.
I will repeat. I never, ever depended on my team, which was quite small compared to the top people in my company. The most I ever had on my team at any given time was nine people and they joined me because they saw me having fun, not because I made them empty promises. I led by example by putting in the work and doing parties, usually six a week right up until I decided to stop doing active parties - not by recruiting. All of the people who were on my team continue to be friends today. One of them is my best friend. None of my down line ever created teams of their own and most had minimal sales but I was fine with that. I didn't build a business based on a pyramid. I never held recruiting seminars. It wasn't the way I worked. I built a business by building a large client base that loved the food I sold. I developed corporate relationships where doctors and business offices chose my products as gifts and incentives for their clients. I worked. Every day. My sales were the source of my income and I worked damned hard to maintain my income.
I never said that I took free trips or had a free car. I said that I took amazing trips and drove a company vehicle. I paid the insurance for the car and I paid my taxes for my income including the trips. This is no different than any business owner - you pay taxes on your income. It's possible that my background in accounting and finance gave me a leg up on building a business. I understand the principles of making a profit. I paid the taxes on my earnings quarterly so that I wouldn't be hit with a tax bill at the end of the year. I never spent money out of my pocket to stay active. I worked to make money, not spend money. When I actively stopped doing parties, I voluntarily surrendered my team because I always believed that being a leader meant doing the work. I didn't run my business like a pyramid. I ran it like a business owner with an invested interest in maintaining profits through sales.
The fact that you judge people you don't know and make assumptions about them is not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Edited to add that you may be confusing client with team. I continued to make money after I stopped actively doing parties because my clients/customers continued to purchase products from me online and from my inventory at my home. I didn't make money off my team any longer because I surrendered my team to my up line when I made the choice to not do do parties. I didn't have a team for those last two years.
I don't need to know you to know MLMs are evil. Just like I don't need to know a thief to know stealing is wrong.
The thing is...they actually work on many of the same principles that other products do, but they give easy entry into a non-traditional distribution method.. And for the record, in order for something to be an actual pyramid - in the illegal sense, there would have to be no product or service transactions involved. Pyramids are illegal - with the only exception I know of being the US's Social Security scam.
I am not a fan of MLM's. I do not like much of the 'fake' enthusiasm at the 'sales meetings', etc. I don't like the methods, but I know a number of people, who have put in honest work - real work - who have been successful at them. It's not for most people. It's not for me either. But the warm market concept is not too different from word of mouth.
They also primarily use the same sales techniques as other businesses: present a problem, show a solution, and sell a solution.
The only thing I really take issue with is that some of these misrepresent what they are. For example, I remember responding to a job advertisement maybe 25 years ago or so. I thought I was going in for an actual job interview. It was far from that and I hated feeling misled. To me that was shady.
I would agree with the 'evil' comment if all MLMs were 100% based on misleading their clients/customers/recruits. But that is not actual fact. I just think saying "MLMs are evil" is too broad of a statement.
Then you haven't done the research. Go read the FitzPatrick report and/or Taylor report, and have your eyes opened.
They are still pyramid schemes even if they're using a cheap, crappy product to use the loophole in the law. That loophole only exists due to lobbyists, and the number of lawsuits pending is astounding. If the best you can say about something is it's not technically illegal... I mean, seriously? The legal system sucks. Lots of shady, horrible BS is legal.
They lie and call people business owners. They aren't. At any time, the company can decide to block them from selling and they have no recourse.
They lie and say you can make money. You don't know anyone who has done well in MLM. Per the statistics, only 0.21% do well in MLM. And of the people breaking even, those stats do not cover how much debt they went into. What you know is people lying about how much money they owe.
They use cult tactics to keep people. They count on the overwhelming rejection to make their sellers draw together and exclude anyone who might talk sense to them.
No exceptions, even for the ones who have half decent products.7 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »@Terytha I thought sharing my insight might show an alternative view. I won’t change your mind and that’s ok.
I am not aware of a good MLM. I am also not certain that your experience would be shared by most others participating in the one you did. It could be that every MLM has just enough people like you to give hope to others who will suffer financial setbacks if they decide to join.
Back in the day Tupperware was a good MLM. The focus was on selling, not recruiting, and the initial outlay was minimal. It also helped that it was a quality product and few expected to make a living. The majority of salespeople were housewives looking for pin money selling to other housewives while the kids were at school. Avon was another with a similar business model. Amway and Mary Kay were the ones that changed MLM's forever with how they ran their businesses.
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debrakgoogins wrote: »@Terytha I thought sharing my insight might show an alternative view. I won’t change your mind and that’s ok.
I am not aware of a good MLM. I am also not certain that your experience would be shared by most others participating in the one you did. It could be that every MLM has just enough people like you to give hope to others who will suffer financial setbacks if they decide to join.
Back in the day Tupperware was a good MLM. The focus was on selling, not recruiting, and the initial outlay was minimal. It also helped that it was a quality product and few expected to make a living. The majority of salespeople were housewives looking for pin money selling to other housewives while the kids were at school. Avon was another with a similar business model. Amway and Mary Kay were the ones that changed MLM's forever with how they ran their businesses.
I was an Avon rep for a couple of years, I did it solely because it was actually more cost effective to be a rep and get the products at cost price than buying through a local rep after they stopped doing direct online sales in the UK and switched to Rep Online stores.
Avon are forever persuading reps to buy a load of unnecessary stuff and Sales Leaders/Managers are promoted before they even know what they're doing at Rep level in order to make someone else a bigger commission. They used to have a really good forum where Reps could actually get decent advice on how things worked - I was for some time, quite active there, helping with queries on tax account spreadsheets and the online store setup, but they got rid of that last year. Now reps can be signed up without ever meeting their Team Leader and be left to fend for themselves.
Whilst I love the products, the business model is profitable for Avon but rarely for Rep A who probably has 3 other Reps on her street all battling for the same customers, all posting the same stuff on Facebook.2 -
Silentpadna wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »
Everyone who was in an MLM and didn't see the light says this.
I've never seen anyone be truthful about it though. They talk about the big checks and the trips and leave out the part where they have to spend $400 per quarter to keep being a seller, and how the "free" trips hit your taxes like an anvil and are far from free, and of course, all the pressure and brainwashing. Oh, and the cars are not free either.
It's called a pyramid SCAM for a reason. The fact that you had a team and made money off their hard work makes you complicit. Not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Sounds like you had a bad experience or someone (or several someones) you know did. I'm not surprised by that. Not all experiences are bad ones. Many believe it is a get rich scheme...and most times it is. I didn't go into the business blind like some do thinking that I could just get a bunch of people to start selling it and then I would be able to sit back and let them do all the work. I DID the work, always. I sold Tastefully Simple for ten years. There was no light to see. I was successful. Most are/were not. I am now a full time financial analyst. I understand business. I understand finances. I understand profit. I ran a business. Most who try MLM are unsuccessful for a number of reasons, mostly thinking that it's easy and not real work.
I will repeat. I never, ever depended on my team, which was quite small compared to the top people in my company. The most I ever had on my team at any given time was nine people and they joined me because they saw me having fun, not because I made them empty promises. I led by example by putting in the work and doing parties, usually six a week right up until I decided to stop doing active parties - not by recruiting. All of the people who were on my team continue to be friends today. One of them is my best friend. None of my down line ever created teams of their own and most had minimal sales but I was fine with that. I didn't build a business based on a pyramid. I never held recruiting seminars. It wasn't the way I worked. I built a business by building a large client base that loved the food I sold. I developed corporate relationships where doctors and business offices chose my products as gifts and incentives for their clients. I worked. Every day. My sales were the source of my income and I worked damned hard to maintain my income.
I never said that I took free trips or had a free car. I said that I took amazing trips and drove a company vehicle. I paid the insurance for the car and I paid my taxes for my income including the trips. This is no different than any business owner - you pay taxes on your income. It's possible that my background in accounting and finance gave me a leg up on building a business. I understand the principles of making a profit. I paid the taxes on my earnings quarterly so that I wouldn't be hit with a tax bill at the end of the year. I never spent money out of my pocket to stay active. I worked to make money, not spend money. When I actively stopped doing parties, I voluntarily surrendered my team because I always believed that being a leader meant doing the work. I didn't run my business like a pyramid. I ran it like a business owner with an invested interest in maintaining profits through sales.
The fact that you judge people you don't know and make assumptions about them is not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Edited to add that you may be confusing client with team. I continued to make money after I stopped actively doing parties because my clients/customers continued to purchase products from me online and from my inventory at my home. I didn't make money off my team any longer because I surrendered my team to my up line when I made the choice to not do do parties. I didn't have a team for those last two years.
I don't need to know you to know MLMs are evil. Just like I don't need to know a thief to know stealing is wrong.
The thing is...they actually work on many of the same principles that other products do, but they give easy entry into a non-traditional distribution method.. And for the record, in order for something to be an actual pyramid - in the illegal sense, there would have to be no product or service transactions involved. Pyramids are illegal - with the only exception I know of being the US's Social Security scam.
I am not a fan of MLM's. I do not like much of the 'fake' enthusiasm at the 'sales meetings', etc. I don't like the methods, but I know a number of people, who have put in honest work - real work - who have been successful at them. It's not for most people. It's not for me either. But the warm market concept is not too different from word of mouth.
They also primarily use the same sales techniques as other businesses: present a problem, show a solution, and sell a solution.
The only thing I really take issue with is that some of these misrepresent what they are. For example, I remember responding to a job advertisement maybe 25 years ago or so. I thought I was going in for an actual job interview. It was far from that and I hated feeling misled. To me that was shady.
I would agree with the 'evil' comment if all MLMs were 100% based on misleading their clients/customers/recruits. But that is not actual fact. I just think saying "MLMs are evil" is too broad of a statement.
Nothing like waking up to a hot, steaming cup of Unintended Irony.
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tinkerbellang83 wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »@Terytha I thought sharing my insight might show an alternative view. I won’t change your mind and that’s ok.
I am not aware of a good MLM. I am also not certain that your experience would be shared by most others participating in the one you did. It could be that every MLM has just enough people like you to give hope to others who will suffer financial setbacks if they decide to join.
Back in the day Tupperware was a good MLM. The focus was on selling, not recruiting, and the initial outlay was minimal. It also helped that it was a quality product and few expected to make a living. The majority of salespeople were housewives looking for pin money selling to other housewives while the kids were at school. Avon was another with a similar business model. Amway and Mary Kay were the ones that changed MLM's forever with how they ran their businesses.
I was an Avon rep for a couple of years, I did it solely because it was actually more cost effective to be a rep and get the products at cost price than buying through a local rep after they stopped doing direct online sales in the UK and switched to Rep Online stores.
Avon are forever persuading reps to buy a load of unnecessary stuff and Sales Leaders/Managers are promoted before they even know what they're doing at Rep level in order to make someone else a bigger commission. They used to have a really good forum where Reps could actually get decent advice on how things worked - I was for some time, quite active there, helping with queries on tax account spreadsheets and the online store setup, but they got rid of that last year. Now reps can be signed up without ever meeting their Team Leader and be left to fend for themselves.
Whilst I love the products, the business model is profitable for Avon but rarely for Rep A who probably has 3 other Reps on her street all battling for the same customers, all posting the same stuff on Facebook.
Yup, they bought into the Mary Kay business model back in the early 70's instead of sticking to their original one . . . and ruined the company in the process.2 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »@Terytha I thought sharing my insight might show an alternative view. I won’t change your mind and that’s ok.
I am not aware of a good MLM. I am also not certain that your experience would be shared by most others participating in the one you did. It could be that every MLM has just enough people like you to give hope to others who will suffer financial setbacks if they decide to join.
Back in the day Tupperware was a good MLM. The focus was on selling, not recruiting, and the initial outlay was minimal. It also helped that it was a quality product and few expected to make a living. The majority of salespeople were housewives looking for pin money selling to other housewives while the kids were at school. Avon was another with a similar business model. Amway and Mary Kay were the ones that changed MLM's forever with how they ran their businesses.
I wasn't even aware that TW was a MLM but then I am hardly an expert on the subject. I know some people who have gotten mixed up with them. I have also read some very disturbing things about a couple of them.
For a brief time I was subjected to herbalife as a kid.3 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »
Everyone who was in an MLM and didn't see the light says this.
I've never seen anyone be truthful about it though. They talk about the big checks and the trips and leave out the part where they have to spend $400 per quarter to keep being a seller, and how the "free" trips hit your taxes like an anvil and are far from free, and of course, all the pressure and brainwashing. Oh, and the cars are not free either.
It's called a pyramid SCAM for a reason. The fact that you had a team and made money off their hard work makes you complicit. Not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Sounds like you had a bad experience or someone (or several someones) you know did. I'm not surprised by that. Not all experiences are bad ones. Many believe it is a get rich scheme...and most times it is. I didn't go into the business blind like some do thinking that I could just get a bunch of people to start selling it and then I would be able to sit back and let them do all the work. I DID the work, always. I sold Tastefully Simple for ten years. There was no light to see. I was successful. Most are/were not. I am now a full time financial analyst. I understand business. I understand finances. I understand profit. I ran a business. Most who try MLM are unsuccessful for a number of reasons, mostly thinking that it's easy and not real work.
I will repeat. I never, ever depended on my team, which was quite small compared to the top people in my company. The most I ever had on my team at any given time was nine people and they joined me because they saw me having fun, not because I made them empty promises. I led by example by putting in the work and doing parties, usually six a week right up until I decided to stop doing active parties - not by recruiting. All of the people who were on my team continue to be friends today. One of them is my best friend. None of my down line ever created teams of their own and most had minimal sales but I was fine with that. I didn't build a business based on a pyramid. I never held recruiting seminars. It wasn't the way I worked. I built a business by building a large client base that loved the food I sold. I developed corporate relationships where doctors and business offices chose my products as gifts and incentives for their clients. I worked. Every day. My sales were the source of my income and I worked damned hard to maintain my income.
I never said that I took free trips or had a free car. I said that I took amazing trips and drove a company vehicle. I paid the insurance for the car and I paid my taxes for my income including the trips. This is no different than any business owner - you pay taxes on your income. It's possible that my background in accounting and finance gave me a leg up on building a business. I understand the principles of making a profit. I paid the taxes on my earnings quarterly so that I wouldn't be hit with a tax bill at the end of the year. I never spent money out of my pocket to stay active. I worked to make money, not spend money. When I actively stopped doing parties, I voluntarily surrendered my team because I always believed that being a leader meant doing the work. I didn't run my business like a pyramid. I ran it like a business owner with an invested interest in maintaining profits through sales.
The fact that you judge people you don't know and make assumptions about them is not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Edited to add that you may be confusing client with team. I continued to make money after I stopped actively doing parties because my clients/customers continued to purchase products from me online and from my inventory at my home. I didn't make money off my team any longer because I surrendered my team to my up line when I made the choice to not do do parties. I didn't have a team for those last two years.
So admittedly, you ran your business as a franchisee rather than as an MLM?3 -
iheartmyyorkie wrote: »What's all this brouhaha about MLMs being evil? They absolutely are not evil. We gave them out last night and the trick or treaters loved them.
Peanut or plain?0 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »So admittedly, you ran your business as a franchisee rather than as an MLM?
Yep, pretty much. Tastefully Simple is an MLM company but I ran mine as if it were a brick and mortar franchise business.1 -
Also, there is no way to know now but I am left to wonder if your energy and drive would have paid off more doing something more traditional and the MLM was holding you back more than you realize.
You might be right but I have never regretted the time I spent doing it. I learned a lot and gained valuable skills. Sometimes I even miss it. I love my job but I also loved what I was doing then too. I have a six figure career that doesn't require parties but I work longer hours now than I did then.
I readily admit that I was the exception. MLM preys on people who are looking for a quick and easy way to make money but being good at it is neither quick or easy. Plus, many MLM companies sell complete crap. I sold spices and food - products that I had used for years before deciding to sell it. I still use it. I'll admit it kills me a little every time I place an order for my favorite spices and pay full price.3 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »@Terytha I thought sharing my insight might show an alternative view. I won’t change your mind and that’s ok.
I am not aware of a good MLM. I am also not certain that your experience would be shared by most others participating in the one you did. It could be that every MLM has just enough people like you to give hope to others who will suffer financial setbacks if they decide to join.
Back in the day Tupperware was a good MLM. The focus was on selling, not recruiting, and the initial outlay was minimal. It also helped that it was a quality product and few expected to make a living. The majority of salespeople were housewives looking for pin money selling to other housewives while the kids were at school. Avon was another with a similar business model. Amway and Mary Kay were the ones that changed MLM's forever with how they ran their businesses.
I wasn't even aware that TW was a MLM but then I am hardly an expert on the subject. I know some people who have gotten mixed up with them. I have also read some very disturbing things about a couple of them.
For a brief time I was subjected to herbalife as a kid.
Technically it was because each person earned off the sales of the people below them but it was run more as a franchise where the focus was on product sales rather than recruitment.0 -
Silentpadna wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »
Everyone who was in an MLM and didn't see the light says this.
I've never seen anyone be truthful about it though. They talk about the big checks and the trips and leave out the part where they have to spend $400 per quarter to keep being a seller, and how the "free" trips hit your taxes like an anvil and are far from free, and of course, all the pressure and brainwashing. Oh, and the cars are not free either.
It's called a pyramid SCAM for a reason. The fact that you had a team and made money off their hard work makes you complicit. Not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Sounds like you had a bad experience or someone (or several someones) you know did. I'm not surprised by that. Not all experiences are bad ones. Many believe it is a get rich scheme...and most times it is. I didn't go into the business blind like some do thinking that I could just get a bunch of people to start selling it and then I would be able to sit back and let them do all the work. I DID the work, always. I sold Tastefully Simple for ten years. There was no light to see. I was successful. Most are/were not. I am now a full time financial analyst. I understand business. I understand finances. I understand profit. I ran a business. Most who try MLM are unsuccessful for a number of reasons, mostly thinking that it's easy and not real work.
I will repeat. I never, ever depended on my team, which was quite small compared to the top people in my company. The most I ever had on my team at any given time was nine people and they joined me because they saw me having fun, not because I made them empty promises. I led by example by putting in the work and doing parties, usually six a week right up until I decided to stop doing active parties - not by recruiting. All of the people who were on my team continue to be friends today. One of them is my best friend. None of my down line ever created teams of their own and most had minimal sales but I was fine with that. I didn't build a business based on a pyramid. I never held recruiting seminars. It wasn't the way I worked. I built a business by building a large client base that loved the food I sold. I developed corporate relationships where doctors and business offices chose my products as gifts and incentives for their clients. I worked. Every day. My sales were the source of my income and I worked damned hard to maintain my income.
I never said that I took free trips or had a free car. I said that I took amazing trips and drove a company vehicle. I paid the insurance for the car and I paid my taxes for my income including the trips. This is no different than any business owner - you pay taxes on your income. It's possible that my background in accounting and finance gave me a leg up on building a business. I understand the principles of making a profit. I paid the taxes on my earnings quarterly so that I wouldn't be hit with a tax bill at the end of the year. I never spent money out of my pocket to stay active. I worked to make money, not spend money. When I actively stopped doing parties, I voluntarily surrendered my team because I always believed that being a leader meant doing the work. I didn't run my business like a pyramid. I ran it like a business owner with an invested interest in maintaining profits through sales.
The fact that you judge people you don't know and make assumptions about them is not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Edited to add that you may be confusing client with team. I continued to make money after I stopped actively doing parties because my clients/customers continued to purchase products from me online and from my inventory at my home. I didn't make money off my team any longer because I surrendered my team to my up line when I made the choice to not do do parties. I didn't have a team for those last two years.
I don't need to know you to know MLMs are evil. Just like I don't need to know a thief to know stealing is wrong.
The thing is...they actually work on many of the same principles that other products do, but they give easy entry into a non-traditional distribution method.. And for the record, in order for something to be an actual pyramid - in the illegal sense, there would have to be no product or service transactions involved. Pyramids are illegal - with the only exception I know of being the US's Social Security scam.
I am not a fan of MLM's. I do not like much of the 'fake' enthusiasm at the 'sales meetings', etc. I don't like the methods, but I know a number of people, who have put in honest work - real work - who have been successful at them. It's not for most people. It's not for me either. But the warm market concept is not too different from word of mouth.
They also primarily use the same sales techniques as other businesses: present a problem, show a solution, and sell a solution.
The only thing I really take issue with is that some of these misrepresent what they are. For example, I remember responding to a job advertisement maybe 25 years ago or so. I thought I was going in for an actual job interview. It was far from that and I hated feeling misled. To me that was shady.
I would agree with the 'evil' comment if all MLMs were 100% based on misleading their clients/customers/recruits. But that is not actual fact. I just think saying "MLMs are evil" is too broad of a statement.
Then you haven't done the research. Go read the FitzPatrick report and/or Taylor report, and have your eyes opened.
They are still pyramid schemes even if they're using a cheap, crappy product to use the loophole in the law. That loophole only exists due to lobbyists, and the number of lawsuits pending is astounding. If the best you can say about something is it's not technically illegal... I mean, seriously? The legal system sucks. Lots of shady, horrible BS is legal.
They lie and call people business owners. They aren't. At any time, the company can decide to block them from selling and they have no recourse.
They lie and say you can make money. You don't know anyone who has done well in MLM. Per the statistics, only 0.21% do well in MLM. And of the people breaking even, those stats do not cover how much debt they went into. What you know is people lying about how much money they owe.
They use cult tactics to keep people. They count on the overwhelming rejection to make their sellers draw together and exclude anyone who might talk sense to them.
No exceptions, even for the ones who have half decent products.
This is a thread about Isagenix, and to some extent about its MLM practices. So I won't take it much further. But...
1. You don't know...and cannot know whether I have "done the research".
2. Making money from a downstream network is not a pyramid. However I will grant that some - by no means all - skirt dangerously close. And for those that cross the line - they should pay the consequences.
3. Not all the products are "cheap and crappy". Tupperware, as mentioned above, is far from that. There are more. I've been a satisfied customer of another for many years.
4. It's not a lie to say you can make money doing it. That has been disproved here in this thread from people who have.
5. I actually do know several people who have done well in MLM, so again....your claims are not true.
6. There are exceptions. This is another claim for which you cannot actually know.
As I mentioned in my post that you responded to, I don't really like them in general. I don't like (most of) their practices. But they have a place in the market - those who are less shady than others. And some who are not shady at all.
I have no axe to grind here. I'm not in one. Don't want to be in one. I've been to a 'sales meeting' for one (the one I thought was a job interview), and I've been to one for a giant corporation. Guess what? There's not a lot of difference.
You can have your opinion on it. But your opinion doesn't jive with reality in total. And a reminder, this is coming from somebody who is not a big fan in general.4 -
Every time I see this thread, I read it as "Anyone ever try lasagna".7
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Silentpadna wrote: »Silentpadna wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »
Everyone who was in an MLM and didn't see the light says this.
I've never seen anyone be truthful about it though. They talk about the big checks and the trips and leave out the part where they have to spend $400 per quarter to keep being a seller, and how the "free" trips hit your taxes like an anvil and are far from free, and of course, all the pressure and brainwashing. Oh, and the cars are not free either.
It's called a pyramid SCAM for a reason. The fact that you had a team and made money off their hard work makes you complicit. Not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Sounds like you had a bad experience or someone (or several someones) you know did. I'm not surprised by that. Not all experiences are bad ones. Many believe it is a get rich scheme...and most times it is. I didn't go into the business blind like some do thinking that I could just get a bunch of people to start selling it and then I would be able to sit back and let them do all the work. I DID the work, always. I sold Tastefully Simple for ten years. There was no light to see. I was successful. Most are/were not. I am now a full time financial analyst. I understand business. I understand finances. I understand profit. I ran a business. Most who try MLM are unsuccessful for a number of reasons, mostly thinking that it's easy and not real work.
I will repeat. I never, ever depended on my team, which was quite small compared to the top people in my company. The most I ever had on my team at any given time was nine people and they joined me because they saw me having fun, not because I made them empty promises. I led by example by putting in the work and doing parties, usually six a week right up until I decided to stop doing active parties - not by recruiting. All of the people who were on my team continue to be friends today. One of them is my best friend. None of my down line ever created teams of their own and most had minimal sales but I was fine with that. I didn't build a business based on a pyramid. I never held recruiting seminars. It wasn't the way I worked. I built a business by building a large client base that loved the food I sold. I developed corporate relationships where doctors and business offices chose my products as gifts and incentives for their clients. I worked. Every day. My sales were the source of my income and I worked damned hard to maintain my income.
I never said that I took free trips or had a free car. I said that I took amazing trips and drove a company vehicle. I paid the insurance for the car and I paid my taxes for my income including the trips. This is no different than any business owner - you pay taxes on your income. It's possible that my background in accounting and finance gave me a leg up on building a business. I understand the principles of making a profit. I paid the taxes on my earnings quarterly so that I wouldn't be hit with a tax bill at the end of the year. I never spent money out of my pocket to stay active. I worked to make money, not spend money. When I actively stopped doing parties, I voluntarily surrendered my team because I always believed that being a leader meant doing the work. I didn't run my business like a pyramid. I ran it like a business owner with an invested interest in maintaining profits through sales.
The fact that you judge people you don't know and make assumptions about them is not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Edited to add that you may be confusing client with team. I continued to make money after I stopped actively doing parties because my clients/customers continued to purchase products from me online and from my inventory at my home. I didn't make money off my team any longer because I surrendered my team to my up line when I made the choice to not do do parties. I didn't have a team for those last two years.
I don't need to know you to know MLMs are evil. Just like I don't need to know a thief to know stealing is wrong.
The thing is...they actually work on many of the same principles that other products do, but they give easy entry into a non-traditional distribution method.. And for the record, in order for something to be an actual pyramid - in the illegal sense, there would have to be no product or service transactions involved. Pyramids are illegal - with the only exception I know of being the US's Social Security scam.
I am not a fan of MLM's. I do not like much of the 'fake' enthusiasm at the 'sales meetings', etc. I don't like the methods, but I know a number of people, who have put in honest work - real work - who have been successful at them. It's not for most people. It's not for me either. But the warm market concept is not too different from word of mouth.
They also primarily use the same sales techniques as other businesses: present a problem, show a solution, and sell a solution.
The only thing I really take issue with is that some of these misrepresent what they are. For example, I remember responding to a job advertisement maybe 25 years ago or so. I thought I was going in for an actual job interview. It was far from that and I hated feeling misled. To me that was shady.
I would agree with the 'evil' comment if all MLMs were 100% based on misleading their clients/customers/recruits. But that is not actual fact. I just think saying "MLMs are evil" is too broad of a statement.
Then you haven't done the research. Go read the FitzPatrick report and/or Taylor report, and have your eyes opened.
They are still pyramid schemes even if they're using a cheap, crappy product to use the loophole in the law. That loophole only exists due to lobbyists, and the number of lawsuits pending is astounding. If the best you can say about something is it's not technically illegal... I mean, seriously? The legal system sucks. Lots of shady, horrible BS is legal.
They lie and call people business owners. They aren't. At any time, the company can decide to block them from selling and they have no recourse.
They lie and say you can make money. You don't know anyone who has done well in MLM. Per the statistics, only 0.21% do well in MLM. And of the people breaking even, those stats do not cover how much debt they went into. What you know is people lying about how much money they owe.
They use cult tactics to keep people. They count on the overwhelming rejection to make their sellers draw together and exclude anyone who might talk sense to them.
No exceptions, even for the ones who have half decent products.
This is a thread about Isagenix, and to some extent about its MLM practices. So I won't take it much further. But...
1. You don't know...and cannot know whether I have "done the research".
2. Making money from a downstream network is not a pyramid. However I will grant that some - by no means all - skirt dangerously close. And for those that cross the line - they should pay the consequences.
3. Not all the products are "cheap and crappy". Tupperware, as mentioned above, is far from that. There are more. I've been a satisfied customer of another for many years.
4. It's not a lie to say you can make money doing it. That has been disproved here in this thread from people who have.
5. I actually do know several people who have done well in MLM, so again....your claims are not true.
6. There are exceptions. This is another claim for which you cannot actually know.
As I mentioned in my post that you responded to, I don't really like them in general. I don't like (most of) their practices. But they have a place in the market - those who are less shady than others. And some who are not shady at all.
I have no axe to grind here. I'm not in one. Don't want to be in one. I've been to a 'sales meeting' for one (the one I thought was a job interview), and I've been to one for a giant corporation. Guess what? There's not a lot of difference.
You can have your opinion on it. But your opinion doesn't jive with reality in total. And a reminder, this is coming from somebody who is not a big fan in general.
Yes, of course. Anecdotal comments with no evidence from three people are proof that two massive inquiries done by academics are incorrect.
Good grief.2 -
[/quote]
No exceptions, even for the ones who have half decent products.[/quote]
And even if the products are half decent they are greatly overpriced compared to similar products from traditional channels. Bonus you don't to put up the the BS from the MLM rep that claims to be your "friend" either.1 -
Yes I have no issues with Tupperware or Avon (original Avon anyway) - people here sell them as a pin money sideline, sometimes for many years.
Not intending to recruit others - and often done by catalogues in work staff rooms and the like, not by parties.
The product was possibly over priced - but there were no hidden catches or exorbitant claims - it was what you thought it was, no trickery or scam to it.1 -
Silentpadna wrote: »Silentpadna wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »
Everyone who was in an MLM and didn't see the light says this.
I've never seen anyone be truthful about it though. They talk about the big checks and the trips and leave out the part where they have to spend $400 per quarter to keep being a seller, and how the "free" trips hit your taxes like an anvil and are far from free, and of course, all the pressure and brainwashing. Oh, and the cars are not free either.
It's called a pyramid SCAM for a reason. The fact that you had a team and made money off their hard work makes you complicit. Not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Sounds like you had a bad experience or someone (or several someones) you know did. I'm not surprised by that. Not all experiences are bad ones. Many believe it is a get rich scheme...and most times it is. I didn't go into the business blind like some do thinking that I could just get a bunch of people to start selling it and then I would be able to sit back and let them do all the work. I DID the work, always. I sold Tastefully Simple for ten years. There was no light to see. I was successful. Most are/were not. I am now a full time financial analyst. I understand business. I understand finances. I understand profit. I ran a business. Most who try MLM are unsuccessful for a number of reasons, mostly thinking that it's easy and not real work.
I will repeat. I never, ever depended on my team, which was quite small compared to the top people in my company. The most I ever had on my team at any given time was nine people and they joined me because they saw me having fun, not because I made them empty promises. I led by example by putting in the work and doing parties, usually six a week right up until I decided to stop doing active parties - not by recruiting. All of the people who were on my team continue to be friends today. One of them is my best friend. None of my down line ever created teams of their own and most had minimal sales but I was fine with that. I didn't build a business based on a pyramid. I never held recruiting seminars. It wasn't the way I worked. I built a business by building a large client base that loved the food I sold. I developed corporate relationships where doctors and business offices chose my products as gifts and incentives for their clients. I worked. Every day. My sales were the source of my income and I worked damned hard to maintain my income.
I never said that I took free trips or had a free car. I said that I took amazing trips and drove a company vehicle. I paid the insurance for the car and I paid my taxes for my income including the trips. This is no different than any business owner - you pay taxes on your income. It's possible that my background in accounting and finance gave me a leg up on building a business. I understand the principles of making a profit. I paid the taxes on my earnings quarterly so that I wouldn't be hit with a tax bill at the end of the year. I never spent money out of my pocket to stay active. I worked to make money, not spend money. When I actively stopped doing parties, I voluntarily surrendered my team because I always believed that being a leader meant doing the work. I didn't run my business like a pyramid. I ran it like a business owner with an invested interest in maintaining profits through sales.
The fact that you judge people you don't know and make assumptions about them is not something I'd be proud of if I were you.
Edited to add that you may be confusing client with team. I continued to make money after I stopped actively doing parties because my clients/customers continued to purchase products from me online and from my inventory at my home. I didn't make money off my team any longer because I surrendered my team to my up line when I made the choice to not do do parties. I didn't have a team for those last two years.
I don't need to know you to know MLMs are evil. Just like I don't need to know a thief to know stealing is wrong.
The thing is...they actually work on many of the same principles that other products do, but they give easy entry into a non-traditional distribution method.. And for the record, in order for something to be an actual pyramid - in the illegal sense, there would have to be no product or service transactions involved. Pyramids are illegal - with the only exception I know of being the US's Social Security scam.
I am not a fan of MLM's. I do not like much of the 'fake' enthusiasm at the 'sales meetings', etc. I don't like the methods, but I know a number of people, who have put in honest work - real work - who have been successful at them. It's not for most people. It's not for me either. But the warm market concept is not too different from word of mouth.
They also primarily use the same sales techniques as other businesses: present a problem, show a solution, and sell a solution.
The only thing I really take issue with is that some of these misrepresent what they are. For example, I remember responding to a job advertisement maybe 25 years ago or so. I thought I was going in for an actual job interview. It was far from that and I hated feeling misled. To me that was shady.
I would agree with the 'evil' comment if all MLMs were 100% based on misleading their clients/customers/recruits. But that is not actual fact. I just think saying "MLMs are evil" is too broad of a statement.
Then you haven't done the research. Go read the FitzPatrick report and/or Taylor report, and have your eyes opened.
They are still pyramid schemes even if they're using a cheap, crappy product to use the loophole in the law. That loophole only exists due to lobbyists, and the number of lawsuits pending is astounding. If the best you can say about something is it's not technically illegal... I mean, seriously? The legal system sucks. Lots of shady, horrible BS is legal.
They lie and call people business owners. They aren't. At any time, the company can decide to block them from selling and they have no recourse.
They lie and say you can make money. You don't know anyone who has done well in MLM. Per the statistics, only 0.21% do well in MLM. And of the people breaking even, those stats do not cover how much debt they went into. What you know is people lying about how much money they owe.
They use cult tactics to keep people. They count on the overwhelming rejection to make their sellers draw together and exclude anyone who might talk sense to them.
No exceptions, even for the ones who have half decent products.
This is a thread about Isagenix, and to some extent about its MLM practices. So I won't take it much further. But...
1. You don't know...and cannot know whether I have "done the research".
2. Making money from a downstream network is not a pyramid. However I will grant that some - by no means all - skirt dangerously close. And for those that cross the line - they should pay the consequences.
3. Not all the products are "cheap and crappy". Tupperware, as mentioned above, is far from that. There are more. I've been a satisfied customer of another for many years.
4. It's not a lie to say you can make money doing it. That has been disproved here in this thread from people who have.
5. I actually do know several people who have done well in MLM, so again....your claims are not true.
6. There are exceptions. This is another claim for which you cannot actually know.
As I mentioned in my post that you responded to, I don't really like them in general. I don't like (most of) their practices. But they have a place in the market - those who are less shady than others. And some who are not shady at all.
I have no axe to grind here. I'm not in one. Don't want to be in one. I've been to a 'sales meeting' for one (the one I thought was a job interview), and I've been to one for a giant corporation. Guess what? There's not a lot of difference.
You can have your opinion on it. But your opinion doesn't jive with reality in total. And a reminder, this is coming from somebody who is not a big fan in general.
Yes, of course. Anecdotal comments with no evidence from three people are proof that two massive inquiries done by academics are incorrect.
Good grief.
Didn't say they were "incorrect". You're putting words in my mouth. Not the first time in this thread. You said "You don't know anyone who has done well in MLM" in your response to me. You would have no basis in that assertion and I refuted it. I said that you were making a broad assertion that they were all evil. That there were "no exceptions" as to how they all operate. Something that you cannot actually know unless you've been involved with all of them.
You are the one with the sweeping assertions. Including assertions of what I know or don't know about the research you cited. I've said in both of my responses that I am not a fan. Anecdotal statements are exceptions, by definition. They contradict your assertions. That should make a reasonable person want to reassess their claims.
Further, there is at least one person in this thread that you have directly tried to discredit despite the fact that they clearly explained to you how they made a living providing a reasonable service.
And lastly, I offered no opinion on the correctness of academics, who by the way do not have a line on truth. While I respect academics, I also know enough about how peer-review actually works and to always follow the money. I'm not doubting their claims, nor am I doubting their statistics. Merely pointing out that a blanket statement of MLMs being evil is not supported. That claim is sweeping enough that the person asserting it is responsible for its truth. And if an assertion like that is true, it should always be true, meaning exceptions like those pointed out here would be impossible. Clearly they are not.
Back to topic. I wouldn't bother with Isagenix. Not because it's distributed via MLM, but because there are better alternatives. And, even with my defense of MLMs, the fact that it is distributed this way would make me suspicious.2 -
Hard to argue with anyone who's lost 100 pounds, but as far as I'm concerned, if I'm going to bother eating a snack, it better say Keebler, Ritz, Pepperidge Farm, or Doritos on the label.3
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