Help with the math of net calories for walking
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Tried30UserNames
Posts: 561 Member
I was a little disturbed yesterday to realize I burn almost no calories from walking. In another post, someone explained that I should be eating only the net calories burned not gross. I'd never thought of it that way.
So, the typical formula is weight x .3 = net calories per mile burned at a pace of 3-4 mph.
That's from a Runners World article based on a university study.
http://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/how-many-calories-are-you-really-burning
I'm not very good at math so help me out here.
My base metabolic rate is what I'd be burning already so I can't count that as exercise calories, right? I'm a 165 lb middle aged female and MFP says my BMR is 1369 calories per day. That's about 14.26 calories for every 15 minutes or 19 calories every 20 minutes.
The study showed the women burned 74 calories gross per mile walking on a treadmill. It was a 19 minute mile. From that he extrapolated 43 net calories per mile and came up with his formula for a 3-4 mph pace. The difference in gross and net is 31 calories, meaning my BMR during the 1 mile walk burns 31 calories.
So if I'm walking 3mph and using his formula, doesn't that assume my BMR is 2232 a day? If I'm walking 4mph and using his formula, doesn't it assume my BMR is closer to 3000 calories a day? Who has a BMR that high?
Also, I know I've read that walking on a treadmill burns fewer calories than walking outside because you don't actually have to propel yourself along...the treadmill belt takes care of that. Is that true or is it another exercise myth?
I'm thinking I burn at least 20% more than he estimates which makes me feel so much better, unless you all explain why my math makes no sense whatsoever, which is entirely possible.
So, the typical formula is weight x .3 = net calories per mile burned at a pace of 3-4 mph.
That's from a Runners World article based on a university study.
http://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/how-many-calories-are-you-really-burning
I'm not very good at math so help me out here.
My base metabolic rate is what I'd be burning already so I can't count that as exercise calories, right? I'm a 165 lb middle aged female and MFP says my BMR is 1369 calories per day. That's about 14.26 calories for every 15 minutes or 19 calories every 20 minutes.
The study showed the women burned 74 calories gross per mile walking on a treadmill. It was a 19 minute mile. From that he extrapolated 43 net calories per mile and came up with his formula for a 3-4 mph pace. The difference in gross and net is 31 calories, meaning my BMR during the 1 mile walk burns 31 calories.
So if I'm walking 3mph and using his formula, doesn't that assume my BMR is 2232 a day? If I'm walking 4mph and using his formula, doesn't it assume my BMR is closer to 3000 calories a day? Who has a BMR that high?
Also, I know I've read that walking on a treadmill burns fewer calories than walking outside because you don't actually have to propel yourself along...the treadmill belt takes care of that. Is that true or is it another exercise myth?
I'm thinking I burn at least 20% more than he estimates which makes me feel so much better, unless you all explain why my math makes no sense whatsoever, which is entirely possible.
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Replies
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I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.0 -
Thank you bcalvanese for replying. I appreciate your input.
Really, my post was meant to question the validity of the standard equation used frequently on these message boards to calculate calorie burn rather than to ask for help with my own exercise. I guess I was too wordy and that got lost.
What I was trying to say was, "Doesn't weight x .3 = net calories burned per mile" assume a base metabolic rate of 2300-3000 calories a day for women? Doesn't that rather invalidate that equation since no (or probably no) women have a BMR even close to that.0 -
As you say the maths is
Net Walking calories Spent = (Body weight in pounds) x (0.30) x (Distance in miles)
The formula for running isn't relevant for a comparison, different movement with a very different efficiency ratio - approx half as efficient.
Pace isn't really relevant for normal paced walking, just the distance you actually cover.
The individual's BMR is completely irrelevant as we are talking about net calories, the extra calories you burn moving your weight over distance.2 -
You are kinda all over here.
The quoted equation returns net calories, above your bmr.
If you are your bmr and any accurate net calories from exercise, your weight wouldn't move.
If your input calories < BMR + net exercise calories, you loose mass.
If input calories > BMR + net exercise calories, you gain weight0 -
Tried30UserNames wrote: »I was a little disturbed yesterday to realize I burn almost no calories from walking. In another post, someone explained that I should be eating only the net calories burned not gross. I'd never thought of it that way.
So, the typical formula is weight x .3 = net calories per mile burned at a pace of 3-4 mph.
That's from a Runners World article based on a university study.
http://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/how-many-calories-are-you-really-burning
I'm not very good at math so help me out here.
My base metabolic rate is what I'd be burning already so I can't count that as exercise calories, right? I'm a 165 lb middle aged female and MFP says my BMR is 1369 calories per day. That's about 14.26 calories for every 15 minutes or 19 calories every 20 minutes.
The study showed the women burned 74 calories gross per mile walking on a treadmill. It was a 19 minute mile. From that he extrapolated 43 net calories per mile and came up with his formula for a 3-4 mph pace. The difference in gross and net is 31 calories, meaning my BMR during the 1 mile walk burns 31 calories.
So if I'm walking 3mph and using his formula, doesn't that assume my BMR is 2232 a day? If I'm walking 4mph and using his formula, doesn't it assume my BMR is closer to 3000 calories a day? Who has a BMR that high?
Also, I know I've read that walking on a treadmill burns fewer calories than walking outside because you don't actually have to propel yourself along...the treadmill belt takes care of that. Is that true or is it another exercise myth?
I'm thinking I burn at least 20% more than he estimates which makes me feel so much better, unless you all explain why my math makes no sense whatsoever, which is entirely possible.
BMR doesn't change with your activity, so that 1370 (estimate) it has for you, will be consistent.
The formula you proposed would be your bodyweight (165) x 0.3= 49.5 calories per mile. So based on your formula, your "net calories" if you had walked 4 miles would be roughly 200 calories. This would bring your Daily expenditure up to about 1570. That number is if you lay in bed all day, get up walk 4 miles, and go straight back to your bed for the rest of the day. Any additional moving, will increase that calorie burn as well. Depending on your job, your lifestyle and the types of food you eat, this number will either go up slightly or could increase a lot.
And to answer your question about BMR, it is very unlikely that any women would have a BMR around or over 3000. I had my RMR tested, which is always going to be atleast a few hundred calories higher than my BMR and my RMR was 2,900 calories; I am 6ft, 225 pound man at about 16-18% body fat. So for a women to have a similar BMR is pretty unlikely.2 -
bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.0 -
scorpio516 wrote: »You are kinda all over here.
The quoted equation returns net calories, above your bmr.
Right, those are the calories above my BMR.
They're saying gross calories burned per mile = BMR + exercise calories, aren't they? I'll use the initial example from the research showing that women burned on average 74 gross calories per mile walking. So wouldn't that also be saying 74 - BMR = exercise calories and they are saying the exercise calories are 43.
So aren't they saying 74 - BMR = 43
Therefore BMR = 30
But for most women wouldn't the BMR actually be around 12 to 20ish?
If that's true, the equation so often referenced isn't anywhere close to a good estimate.
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No, it isn't BMR you're subtracting. It's the calories you would have expended if you weren't exercising. It's (BMR + NEAT).1
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stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.
That is why I use the Garmin data from Garmin Connect. Garmin also links to MFP and transfers the calories directly.0 -
bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.
That is why I use the Garmin data from Garmin Connect. Garmin also links to MFP and transfers the calories directly.
Strava, gives me split times, and calculates PRs.... It seems to me to give a better gauge of how i'm improving than Garmin Connect... at least better than the new Garmin Connect. The old one on the CD with my big red beast let me slice the data better...0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.
That is why I use the Garmin data from Garmin Connect. Garmin also links to MFP and transfers the calories directly.
Strava, gives me split times, and calculates PRs.... It seems to me to give a better gauge of how i'm improving than Garmin Connect... at least better than the new Garmin Connect. The old one on the CD with my big red beast let me slice the data better...
Garmin Connect has splits, and I think personal best as well. It also has VO2max, training load, recovery time, and new with the fenix 5 series calculates aerobic and anaerobic training effect separately.0 -
No, it isn't BMR you're subtracting. It's the calories you would have expended if you weren't exercising. It's (BMR + NEAT).
So the BMR + NEAT is assumed to be 30. Therefore an average female's BMR + NEAT would have to be 2200 to 2900ish range a day for the equation to work. Except the average female's is actually about 1575-1700.
Since nobody has really mentioned that my math is wrong, I think I'll stick with my original conclusion that the equation is pretty much wrong, especially for me since the two activities I choose from on any given afternoon are taking a nap or going for a walk.
Thanks for the input from everyone. I appreciate it.0 -
bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.
That is why I use the Garmin data from Garmin Connect. Garmin also links to MFP and transfers the calories directly.
Strava, gives me split times, and calculates PRs.... It seems to me to give a better gauge of how i'm improving than Garmin Connect... at least better than the new Garmin Connect. The old one on the CD with my big red beast let me slice the data better...
Garmin Connect has splits, and I think personal best as well. It also has VO2max, training load, recovery time, and new with the fenix 5 series calculates aerobic and anaerobic training effect separately.
I did a 10K last month... It included a new best mile, and 5k.. strava captured all of that... Garmin Connect didn't even identify that I had done a 10K
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stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.
That is why I use the Garmin data from Garmin Connect. Garmin also links to MFP and transfers the calories directly.
Strava, gives me split times, and calculates PRs.... It seems to me to give a better gauge of how i'm improving than Garmin Connect... at least better than the new Garmin Connect. The old one on the CD with my big red beast let me slice the data better...
Garmin Connect has splits, and I think personal best as well. It also has VO2max, training load, recovery time, and new with the fenix 5 series calculates aerobic and anaerobic training effect separately.
I did a 10K last month... It included a new best mile, and 5k.. strava captured all of that... Garmin Connect didn't even identify that I had done a 10K
A lot depends on your device. I get a significant amount of data from GC once my 735XT has uploaded. On my old Forerunner I still got splits etc.1 -
Tried30UserNames wrote: »No, it isn't BMR you're subtracting. It's the calories you would have expended if you weren't exercising. It's (BMR + NEAT).
So the BMR + NEAT is assumed to be 30. Therefore an average female's BMR + NEAT would have to be 2200 to 2900ish range a day for the equation to work. Except the average female's is actually about 1575-1700.
Since nobody has really mentioned that my math is wrong, I think I'll stick with my original conclusion that the equation is pretty much wrong, especially for me since the two activities I choose from on any given afternoon are taking a nap or going for a walk.
Thanks for the input from everyone. I appreciate it.
I'm struggling a bit to make sense of the question, as each of the posts are going in different directions.
At c165lbs you're expending c50 calories per mile. That's fairly straightforward physics.
I noted your question about dreadmills. Ignore people who suggest a dreadmill isn't as effective. It's very boring, but you're still walking.1 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.
That is why I use the Garmin data from Garmin Connect. Garmin also links to MFP and transfers the calories directly.
Strava, gives me split times, and calculates PRs.... It seems to me to give a better gauge of how i'm improving than Garmin Connect... at least better than the new Garmin Connect. The old one on the CD with my big red beast let me slice the data better...
Garmin Connect has splits, and I think personal best as well. It also has VO2max, training load, recovery time, and new with the fenix 5 series calculates aerobic and anaerobic training effect separately.
I did a 10K last month... It included a new best mile, and 5k.. strava captured all of that... Garmin Connect didn't even identify that I had done a 10K
A lot depends on your device. I get a significant amount of data from GC once my 735XT has uploaded. On my old Forerunner I still got splits etc.
like I said.. strava gave me that information based on the GC data.... so GC had it, but didn't process it in a useful manner0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.
That is why I use the Garmin data from Garmin Connect. Garmin also links to MFP and transfers the calories directly.
Strava, gives me split times, and calculates PRs.... It seems to me to give a better gauge of how i'm improving than Garmin Connect... at least better than the new Garmin Connect. The old one on the CD with my big red beast let me slice the data better...
Garmin Connect has splits, and I think personal best as well. It also has VO2max, training load, recovery time, and new with the fenix 5 series calculates aerobic and anaerobic training effect separately.
I did a 10K last month... It included a new best mile, and 5k.. strava captured all of that... Garmin Connect didn't even identify that I had done a 10K
A lot depends on your device. I get a significant amount of data from GC once my 735XT has uploaded. On my old Forerunner I still got splits etc.
like I said.. strava gave me that information based on the GC data.... so GC had it, but didn't process it in a useful manner
What device are you using to collect it?0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a pretty expensive fitness watch (Garmin fenix 5x) that figures all that stuff out for me. Today I did a 5.5 mile trail run and my heart rate was in zone 4 & 5 the whole time. I burned 894 calories. Most fitness devices way over estimate calorie burns, but this fenix 5x does it pretty accurately. If I used one of my other devices on todays workout it probably would have told me that I burned over 1,200 calories instead of 894.
I don't want to be bothered with all that calculation stuff, so that is why I spent the money on a good device. I just push the button and go. It tracks my distance, pace, heart rate, calories, VO2max, training effect (both aerobic & anaerobic), recovery time, intensity minutes, cadence, and saves it all for each workout.
there are also some pretty good calorie calculators out there, so you can find a bunch of them, put your info in, and determine which is the best one for you.
IF you're interested in seeing what the other calculators think, you could link your garmin with strava.
I did 4.5ish miles in an hour ish last night Garmin gave me 500ish... strava and Mapmyrun... both based on Garmin's data.. gave me in excess of 1000.
That is why I use the Garmin data from Garmin Connect. Garmin also links to MFP and transfers the calories directly.
Strava, gives me split times, and calculates PRs.... It seems to me to give a better gauge of how i'm improving than Garmin Connect... at least better than the new Garmin Connect. The old one on the CD with my big red beast let me slice the data better...
Garmin Connect has splits, and I think personal best as well. It also has VO2max, training load, recovery time, and new with the fenix 5 series calculates aerobic and anaerobic training effect separately.
I did a 10K last month... It included a new best mile, and 5k.. strava captured all of that... Garmin Connect didn't even identify that I had done a 10K
A lot depends on your device. I get a significant amount of data from GC once my 735XT has uploaded. On my old Forerunner I still got splits etc.
like I said.. strava gave me that information based on the GC data.... so GC had it, but didn't process it in a useful manner
What device are you using to collect it?
Vivoactive with a wahoo HRM
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Odd that you're not seeing it.
These are my data screens from Saturday:
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