LCHF but not LCHF enough to be keto
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born_of_fire74
Posts: 776 Member
I've recently adjusted my macro split to be more LCHF because I find fat very satiating so I'm able to keep my overall calorie intake lower to the tune of about 200/day. I'm a little concerned, though, that I may just be hamstringing my progress since I'm not low carb enough to get into keto.
Is there a minimum threshold of carbs I should be eating to ensure my body is getting the fuel it needs? Am I going to cause myself more problems than I'm going to solve by reducing carbs without fully committing to keto? Am I ok to keep reducing carbs and increasing fat until my body indicates it's a problem by feeling weak or listless and then walk it back a bit from there for maintenance to recomp? I sincerely doubt I will ever go full keto; it's just too restrictive.
I'm not really looking to lose anymore weight although I wouldn't complain if I dropped my last few vanity pounds. I'm mainly interested in improving my BF%. As such, I lift regularly and always make sure I get enough protein. I'm tooling around with only carbs and fat in an effort to maintain on the least amount of calories that I'm energetic enough and comfortable with without feeling hungry all the time. Is this a terrible idea that seems like a good idea to someone that doesn't know any better?
Any advice is greatly appreciated. I hope I have clearly expressed my concerns. If not, I'll be happy to clarify. Thanks!
Is there a minimum threshold of carbs I should be eating to ensure my body is getting the fuel it needs? Am I going to cause myself more problems than I'm going to solve by reducing carbs without fully committing to keto? Am I ok to keep reducing carbs and increasing fat until my body indicates it's a problem by feeling weak or listless and then walk it back a bit from there for maintenance to recomp? I sincerely doubt I will ever go full keto; it's just too restrictive.
I'm not really looking to lose anymore weight although I wouldn't complain if I dropped my last few vanity pounds. I'm mainly interested in improving my BF%. As such, I lift regularly and always make sure I get enough protein. I'm tooling around with only carbs and fat in an effort to maintain on the least amount of calories that I'm energetic enough and comfortable with without feeling hungry all the time. Is this a terrible idea that seems like a good idea to someone that doesn't know any better?
Any advice is greatly appreciated. I hope I have clearly expressed my concerns. If not, I'll be happy to clarify. Thanks!
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Replies
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https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb
Enjoy. Everyone is different. 20 carbs a day seems to be the target. I am ok a bit higher.
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Thanks for the link but when I say low carb, I mean like 100/day down from the 200 the trainer at my cross-fit club assigned me when I first joined up 15 months ago. 20/day is a pipe-dream LOL
What is a "bit higher" for you?0 -
I don't do keto but I did when I first began in 2013 and I was spilling ketones in my urine anything under 80g carbs/day. Ketosis isn't necessary for weight loss, however, if you're more satisfied on higher fats and lower carbs just keep doing what works for you.3
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I'm confused why your goal is to maintain on the fewest calories possible. My goal is always to eat the most calories possible that gets me a given outcome.
More carbs vs more fat hasn't made any particular difference for me, as long as I'm getting enough protein. I usually run about 40% fat and 40% carb, averaged over a week, but I am not a huge fan of fatty mouthfeel, and I really like fruit.0 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »Thanks for the link but when I say low carb, I mean like 100/day down from the 200 the trainer at my cross-fit club assigned me when I first joined up 15 months ago. 20/day is a pipe-dream LOL
What is a "bit higher" for you?
100g is fine. you most likely wont enter ketosis (some can). but its not going to cause any issues that i can think of unless you have a health issue.But if you lift often and find your performance suffers you may have to up your carbs again. everyone is different.I dont think there is a minimum thresh hold for carbs.
under 50 is keto and anything over up to 100-150 can be considered lower carb. you dont need to do keto if you dont want to. if you want to lose a few vanity lbs recomping may help because you will gain some muscle and lose fat but recomping takes a long time,if you arent worried about it taking time then do that and make sure you get enough protein.
not everyone gets keto flu when they do keto so you may not notice any tiredness or things like that if you do enter ketosis.just make sure you get enough calories.do the 100g for a few months or so and then reassess things like how you feel,are your workouts suffering,etc.0 -
No, there's no need to be keto to get energy on low carb. I did around 100-120 g for a while and easily ran around 30 miles per week doing it, as well as other exercise. I only experienced that sluggishness some get in going keto when I cut down to a lower level. That also passed in about a week or so, for the most part. Some people don't find they enjoy low carb, but it's not like there's some ideal level that's super low (keto is just trendy in 2017, it seems) and that otherwise you need to be at the RDA. (Here's a decent discussion of how many benefits of low carb, to those who experience them, can happen at low but not super low levels: http://caloriesproper.com/carbs-low-vs-lower/)
You adapt to using fat more whether you are actually keto or not -- some endurance training plans I've looked at recommend working on fat adaptation by including fasted runs (and long runs) even when not low carbing. If you are low enough to need ketones, your body will make them (and does, being "keto" has to do with the percent to which you are using them, or something like that, when you measure).0 -
I've seen a few people find they feel better at mostly in ketosis or mostly out. For those people, going in and out of ketosis seems to be a bit harder. For others it is fine.
At 100g of carbs per day you will mostly be out of ketosis, except perhaps at night. If it is a problem, go lower or higher in carbs.0 -
I'm confused why your goal is to maintain on the fewest calories possible. My goal is always to eat the most calories possible that gets me a given outcome.
Mainly because my weighing and logging is not the most meticulous. By padding the numbers a bit toward the low side, I'm less likely to be accidentally going over my allowances should that tablespoon of peanut butter turn out to be more like 1.5 tablespoons. There is a great lunch program where I work that facilitates a variety in my eating that I wouldn't have otherwise but, since I don't prepare the food myself, it's all guesstimating when I log it and errors can add up quickly. I've tried to tighten up my logging without much luck--I really like the lunch program LOL. This seems to work as an alternative.
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born_of_fire74 wrote: »I'm confused why your goal is to maintain on the fewest calories possible. My goal is always to eat the most calories possible that gets me a given outcome.
Mainly because my weighing and logging is not the most meticulous. By padding the numbers a bit toward the low side, I'm less likely to be accidentally going over my allowances should that tablespoon of peanut butter turn out to be more like 1.5 tablespoons. There is a great lunch program where I work that facilitates a variety in my eating that I wouldn't have otherwise but, since I don't prepare the food myself, it's all guesstimating when I log it and errors can add up quickly. I've tried to tighten up my logging without much luck--I really like the lunch program LOL. This seems to work as an alternative.
if you arent sure about food then at home you could be weighing it on a food scale.when out of your home the only thing you can do is estimate for some places,unless they have an online calorie/nutrition facts area then it still can be off by a bit. just estimate higher than you would or maybe you can find entries that are close to what you are eating? and go with that. you could also be a little more active too to offset the extra calories. as long as you are losing weight then that all that matters but if you are not you may need to be more meticulous.1 -
Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.0 -
Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.
some may have fresher breath but some get whats called keto breath,and their sweat smells off too. not everyone but some have these issues.as for gas I dont see how they have no gas lol0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.
some may have fresher breath but some get whats called keto breath,and their sweat smells off too. not everyone but some have these issues.as for gas I dont see how they have no gas lol
Yeah, I'm just saying things that I've commonly heard (or experienced myself). I'm pretty active on the Keto subreddit so I've heard of a lot of people mentioning the gas thing. I've definitely experienced that one myself, it's a great side effect! Lol. I find my breath is much fresher in the morning then when I'm eating carbs - the tiny bits of sugar that get left in your mouth after brushing are what cause bacteria and thus, bad breath. But ketosis can give your breath/sweat/urine a metallic smell - I'll take that any day over the alternative!0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.
some may have fresher breath but some get whats called keto breath,and their sweat smells off too. not everyone but some have these issues.as for gas I dont see how they have no gas lol
Yeah, I'm just saying things that I've commonly heard (or experienced myself). I'm pretty active on the Keto subreddit so I've heard of a lot of people mentioning the gas thing. I've definitely experienced that one myself, it's a great side effect! Lol. I find my breath is much fresher in the morning then when I'm eating carbs - the tiny bits of sugar that get left in your mouth after brushing are what cause bacteria and thus, bad breath. But ketosis can give your breath/sweat/urine a metallic smell - I'll take that any day over the alternative!
any food left in your mouth can cause bacteria and bad breath,not just carbs which is why you brush and floss.I eat a lot of carbs and have no issues with bad breath bad breath can also be a sign of different health issues.
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born_of_fire74 wrote: »I'm confused why your goal is to maintain on the fewest calories possible. My goal is always to eat the most calories possible that gets me a given outcome.
Mainly because my weighing and logging is not the most meticulous. By padding the numbers a bit toward the low side, I'm less likely to be accidentally going over my allowances should that tablespoon of peanut butter turn out to be more like 1.5 tablespoons. There is a great lunch program where I work that facilitates a variety in my eating that I wouldn't have otherwise but, since I don't prepare the food myself, it's all guesstimating when I log it and errors can add up quickly. I've tried to tighten up my logging without much luck--I really like the lunch program LOL. This seems to work as an alternative.
Oh, that makes sense - not that you're trying to eat so that your maintenance calories are low, but that you want to be satisfied eating at the low end of your likely maintenance range.1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.
some may have fresher breath but some get whats called keto breath,and their sweat smells off too. not everyone but some have these issues.as for gas I dont see how they have no gas lol
Yeah, I'm just saying things that I've commonly heard (or experienced myself). I'm pretty active on the Keto subreddit so I've heard of a lot of people mentioning the gas thing. I've definitely experienced that one myself, it's a great side effect! Lol. I find my breath is much fresher in the morning then when I'm eating carbs - the tiny bits of sugar that get left in your mouth after brushing are what cause bacteria and thus, bad breath. But ketosis can give your breath/sweat/urine a metallic smell - I'll take that any day over the alternative!
any food left in your mouth can cause bacteria and bad breath,not just carbs which is why you brush and floss.I eat a lot of carbs and have no issues with bad breath bad breath can also be a sign of different health issues.
Bacteria's favourite food is sugar, so if you cut that out, you'll usually experience fresher breath - this is well-known. But yes, good brushing and flossing is obviously very important. And halitosis can be triggered by many different things. And just because you eat lots of carbs and sugar doesn't mean you'll have bad breath. I'm just relaying personal experience and what I've heard from other people who do keto.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.
some may have fresher breath but some get whats called keto breath,and their sweat smells off too. not everyone but some have these issues.as for gas I dont see how they have no gas lol
Yeah, I'm just saying things that I've commonly heard (or experienced myself). I'm pretty active on the Keto subreddit so I've heard of a lot of people mentioning the gas thing. I've definitely experienced that one myself, it's a great side effect! Lol. I find my breath is much fresher in the morning then when I'm eating carbs - the tiny bits of sugar that get left in your mouth after brushing are what cause bacteria and thus, bad breath. But ketosis can give your breath/sweat/urine a metallic smell - I'll take that any day over the alternative!
any food left in your mouth can cause bacteria and bad breath,not just carbs which is why you brush and floss.I eat a lot of carbs and have no issues with bad breath bad breath can also be a sign of different health issues.
Bacteria's favourite food is sugar, so if you cut that out, you'll usually experience fresher breath - this is well-known. But yes, good brushing and flossing is obviously very important. And halitosis can be triggered by many different things. And just because you eat lots of carbs and sugar doesn't mean you'll have bad breath. I'm just relaying personal experience and what I've heard from other people who do keto.
Oh I get that you are saying what happened for you, but im just saying in general its not the case for everyone and some people may think its the norm for all ketoers.
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.
some may have fresher breath but some get whats called keto breath,and their sweat smells off too. not everyone but some have these issues.as for gas I dont see how they have no gas lol
Fibre = gas
Ketosis does cut down on gas in the vast majority of people.
Odd breath and sweat is often more related to high protein, or a severe caloric deficit than it is to ketosis. There is a minority that has problems but they are the minority.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.
some may have fresher breath but some get whats called keto breath,and their sweat smells off too. not everyone but some have these issues.as for gas I dont see how they have no gas lol
Fibre = gas
Ketosis does cut down on gas in the vast majority of people.
Odd breath and sweat is often more related to high protein, or a severe caloric deficit than it is to ketosis. There is a minority that has problems but they are the minority.
I was in that minority before I knew I had familial hypercholesterolemia I did a keto diet for a month. I had the nasty breath and sweat and I ended up with keto flu, then my cholesterol went even higher than it was and I was fatigued and week. had to get off keto and go to a low fat,high fiber diet as well as meds.oh and some people are gassy no matter what they eat.0 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »I'm confused why your goal is to maintain on the fewest calories possible. My goal is always to eat the most calories possible that gets me a given outcome.
Mainly because my weighing and logging is not the most meticulous. By padding the numbers a bit toward the low side, I'm less likely to be accidentally going over my allowances should that tablespoon of peanut butter turn out to be more like 1.5 tablespoons. There is a great lunch program where I work that facilitates a variety in my eating that I wouldn't have otherwise but, since I don't prepare the food myself, it's all guesstimating when I log it and errors can add up quickly. I've tried to tighten up my logging without much luck--I really like the lunch program LOL. This seems to work as an alternative.
What you said right here is the path to glory. Be conservative, understand it's a bit of guesswork, and enjoy your successes. You'll be fine doing what you're doing.
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Most strict keto-ers stick to around 20g net carbs a day. Some folks can get away with up to 50g net carbs per day. Any higher and you may be pushing it.
I'm following keto for weight loss purposes, but I will probably switch to a general low-carb approach for maintenance (50-100g net carbs).
Either route you take, it wont affect your weight loss progress. There are other certain benefits that being in a state of nutritional ketosis provide that general low-carb may not. Many people on keto report no bloating/gas, fresher breath, better energy and mental clarity, easing of PCOS/Diabetes/Seizure symptoms. These nice side effects may deminish or disappear as you increase your carb intake. But its up to you to find the sweet spot for something sustainable for you.
some may have fresher breath but some get whats called keto breath,and their sweat smells off too. not everyone but some have these issues.as for gas I dont see how they have no gas lol
Fibre = gas
Ketosis does cut down on gas in the vast majority of people.
Odd breath and sweat is often more related to high protein, or a severe caloric deficit than it is to ketosis. There is a minority that has problems but they are the minority.
I was in that minority before I knew I had familial hypercholesterolemia I did a keto diet for a month. I had the nasty breath and sweat and I ended up with keto flu, then my cholesterol went even higher than it was and I was fatigued and week. had to get off keto and go to a low fat,high fiber diet as well as meds.oh and some people are gassy no matter what they eat.
Unfortunate minority.0
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