Does low carb really help you lose weight while eating more calories?
lightenup2016
Posts: 1,055 Member
I was recently talking with my sister-in-law, who has lost 15-20 lbs over the past several months. She has done so by eating a lot fewer carbs, but hasn't kept track of actual carb grams. I suggested to her that she lost the weight because eating lower carb (and presumably higher protein) made her fuller and consequently caused her to eat fewer calories. But she claims she couldn't lose on a "normal" diet while eating 1200 calories, but did lose weight eating 2000 calories while low-carb.
Can anyone back this up? I did mention water weight loss, and she said the first several lbs were water, but that she has consistently lost weight over the past several months, so definitely not just water.
Is she just miscalculating her calorie intake? But most people don't overestimate, right? Confused...
Can anyone back this up? I did mention water weight loss, and she said the first several lbs were water, but that she has consistently lost weight over the past several months, so definitely not just water.
Is she just miscalculating her calorie intake? But most people don't overestimate, right? Confused...
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Replies
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lightenup2016 wrote: »
Is she just miscalculating her calorie intake? But most people don't overestimate, right? Confused...
Yes she is, Yes they do(if they arent weighing with a scale)3 -
Most of that depends on what her BMR is and how active she is. She may be miscalculating.
2000 kcals of a normal diet = 2000 kcal of a low carb diet.
Not eating carbs will do nothing magical.3 -
She would defy the laws of physiology, physics, biology etc if she was able to do that.7
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lightenup2016 wrote: »
Is she just miscalculating her calorie intake?
Yes. That is typically the case.lightenup2016 wrote: »But most people don't overestimate, right?
Yes people do. Also it's likely that when she thought she was eating 1200 calories, she was actually eating a lot more. I've seen people here on MFP use entries for food that the calories are only 1/3 what they should be. Errors like that add hundreds to 1000+ calories unaccounted for. This results in people thinking they are eating 1200, but not losing when the reality is they aren't really in a deficit.
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Thanks for your replies! I guess it just seems strange that she would be counting "1200 calories" incorrectly, and then when doing low-carb, she's suddenly counting correctly (2000 calories). Or the opposite--was correctly counting 1200, then suddenly overestimating at 2000 while low carb. It just doesn't make sense.
We were on vacation when we discussed this, so I didn't want to get into a big thing with her at the time. She looks great and has obviously been successful at losing weight! But maybe I'll ask her for a few more details sometime soon.0 -
lightenup2016 wrote: »I was recently talking with my sister-in-law, who has lost 15-20 lbs over the past several months. She has done so by eating a lot fewer carbs, but hasn't kept track of actual carb grams. I suggested to her that she lost the weight because eating lower carb (and presumably higher protein) made her fuller and consequently caused her to eat fewer calories. But she claims she couldn't lose on a "normal" diet while eating 1200 calories, but did lose weight eating 2000 calories while low-carb.
Can anyone back this up? I did mention water weight loss, and she said the first several lbs were water, but that she has consistently lost weight over the past several months, so definitely not just water.
Is she just miscalculating her calorie intake? But most people don't overestimate, right? Confused...
The calorie counting thing is a big part of this. Eliminating most of a macro & many other foods that just happen to have carbs can make weight loss happen without any calorie counting at all.
Low carb diets date back to the 1970's (at least). Logging calories was a major pain back then. Food labels didn't require calories, etc. So you had to buy a book, and then look everything up. You wrote it down in a journal and then added and re-added throughout the day. Many low carbers were able to lose weight without journaling.
I know women that "can't" lose weight on 1200 but can lose weight on low carb, "It's the only thing that works for me." Water weight loss feels like progress. Many times they don't have much weight to lose but expect weight loss every time they step on the scale (unrealistic expectations). 1200 calories & 1/2 pound a week loss does not feel like progress.
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There a phenomena that I've observed in people who are enamored by a certain way of eating wherein they suddenly grossly overestimate their food intake.
I remember going to a raw vegan website and seeing all of these outrageous claims about how many calories they were eating each day and losing weight. They showed pictures of their food, and they were all seriously delusional and overcounting.
Why did this happen? Because the gurus selling the diet told them they could eat more than they used to on their old way of eating.
I saw the same thing happening on a high starch diet website. For the same reason.
And yup, same thing happens in low carb circles. It's all part of the "hack" mentality of selling diets to people. Doesn't every dieter secretly dream of being able to eat a huge amount a weigh less? Well follow this diet and all your dreams will come true! BTW, buy my book or our special products and it'll be smooth sailing!
This doesn't happen to everyone, of course there are perfectly educated people who understand that they have to create a calorie deficit and who understand that the only difference between 1500 calories on different macro mixes that shows on the scale will be down to water weight. Unfortunately, your sister-in-law isn't one of these people.
Sadly, in my experience reading weight loss forums for years, I've found that the people who are fooling themselves believing this stuff never sustain either the way of eating and/or their losses.7 -
The thing i have noticed on top of your comment is that even people with successful weight loss dont understand that they are making a LIFESTYLE change. Soon as they hit their goal weight they view it as a license to return to their old ways.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There a phenomena that I've observed in people who are enamored by a certain way of eating wherein they suddenly grossly overestimate their food intake.
You get TONS of story's about how "i lost 100lbs and now gained it all back". Crazy
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There a phenomena that I've observed in people who are enamored by a certain way of eating wherein they suddenly grossly overestimate their food intake.
I remember going to a raw vegan website and seeing all of these outrageous claims about how many calories they were eating each day and losing weight. They showed pictures of their food, and they were all seriously delusional and overcounting.
Why did this happen? Because the gurus selling the diet told them they could eat more than they used to on their old way of eating.
I saw the same thing happening on a high starch diet website. For the same reason.
And yup, same thing happens in low carb circles. It's all part of the "hack" mentality of selling diets to people. Doesn't every dieter secretly dream of being able to eat a huge amount a weigh less? Well follow this diet and all your dreams will come true! BTW, buy my book or our special products and it'll be smooth sailing!
This doesn't happen to everyone, of course there are perfectly educated people who understand that they have to create a calorie deficit and who understand that the only difference between 1500 calories on different macro mixes that shows on the scale will be down to water weight. Unfortunately, your sister-in-law isn't one of these people.
Sadly, in my experience reading weight loss forums for years, I've found that the people who are fooling themselves believing this stuff never sustain either the way of eating and/or their losses.
Well that's what I thought could be happening--that she was just overzealous about her new way of eating, and initial water loss, and that she had a bias towards the benefits and results of low-carb. But she and her husband are both pretty educated and informed. She's used MFP off and on for quite a while. He told me he used to believe that CI must be less than CO to lose weight, but he no longer believes it based on their experience (and/or internet research?). I'm really curious now to get more info from her about how meticulously she's really tracking everything.0 -
lightenup2016 wrote: »He told me he used to believe that CI must be less than CO to lose weight, but he no longer believes it based on their experience (and/or internet research?).
So he doesn't believe in the laws of physics and has now given them up for belief in the easter bunny. Sounds smart.
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lightenup2016 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There a phenomena that I've observed in people who are enamored by a certain way of eating wherein they suddenly grossly overestimate their food intake.
I remember going to a raw vegan website and seeing all of these outrageous claims about how many calories they were eating each day and losing weight. They showed pictures of their food, and they were all seriously delusional and overcounting.
Why did this happen? Because the gurus selling the diet told them they could eat more than they used to on their old way of eating.
I saw the same thing happening on a high starch diet website. For the same reason.
And yup, same thing happens in low carb circles. It's all part of the "hack" mentality of selling diets to people. Doesn't every dieter secretly dream of being able to eat a huge amount a weigh less? Well follow this diet and all your dreams will come true! BTW, buy my book or our special products and it'll be smooth sailing!
This doesn't happen to everyone, of course there are perfectly educated people who understand that they have to create a calorie deficit and who understand that the only difference between 1500 calories on different macro mixes that shows on the scale will be down to water weight. Unfortunately, your sister-in-law isn't one of these people.
Sadly, in my experience reading weight loss forums for years, I've found that the people who are fooling themselves believing this stuff never sustain either the way of eating and/or their losses.
Well that's what I thought could be happening--that she was just overzealous about her new way of eating, and initial water loss, and that she had a bias towards the benefits and results of low-carb. But she and her husband are both pretty educated and informed. She's used MFP off and on for quite a while. He told me he used to believe that CI must be less than CO to lose weight, but he no longer believes it based on their experience (and/or internet research?). I'm really curious now to get more info from her about how meticulously she's really tracking everything.
There's no credible research that's going to support your s-i-l's position that she can eat as much as she wants and lose weight as long as she's low carb. That being said, if this will work for her for the long term, I'm happy she found something that works.
Your instincts were right. However, you can't discuss things rationally with someone who's in that mindset. Just smile and nod and do your thing.2 -
Your instincts were right. However, you can't discuss things rationally with someone who's in that mindset. Just smile and nod and do your thing.
The way i look at it, is those types of people have to lie to themselves to make them believe they are eating more and arent hungry. They are playing a mental game against their own brain. Trying to get them to admit to breaking the lie, would effectively make them break their conjured reality that they arent hungry. So they will never admit it.
For example, they will eat one apple and imagine they ate 3 kind of thing.2 -
The foods you eat on a low carb diet are very filling. You might feel a lot more full on 350 calories of chicken, greek yogurt and eggs than you would on 350 calories of pasta or rice. So you might FEEL like you consumed more calories but didn't, actually. If you calculate calories based on "how stuffed am I?" which is not a very scientific method. :-)3
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AcPoisonedpawn78 wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »He told me he used to believe that CI must be less than CO to lose weight, but he no longer believes it based on their experience (and/or internet research?).
So he doesn't believe in the laws of physics and has now given them up for belief in the easter bunny. Sounds smart.
Actually, I misquoted him. I think what he said is that he used to believe weight loss is all about calories, but now he doesn't believe that so much.0 -
No. It doesn't.0
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lightenup2016 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There a phenomena that I've observed in people who are enamored by a certain way of eating wherein they suddenly grossly overestimate their food intake.
I remember going to a raw vegan website and seeing all of these outrageous claims about how many calories they were eating each day and losing weight. They showed pictures of their food, and they were all seriously delusional and overcounting.
Why did this happen? Because the gurus selling the diet told them they could eat more than they used to on their old way of eating.
I saw the same thing happening on a high starch diet website. For the same reason.
And yup, same thing happens in low carb circles. It's all part of the "hack" mentality of selling diets to people. Doesn't every dieter secretly dream of being able to eat a huge amount a weigh less? Well follow this diet and all your dreams will come true! BTW, buy my book or our special products and it'll be smooth sailing!
This doesn't happen to everyone, of course there are perfectly educated people who understand that they have to create a calorie deficit and who understand that the only difference between 1500 calories on different macro mixes that shows on the scale will be down to water weight. Unfortunately, your sister-in-law isn't one of these people.
Sadly, in my experience reading weight loss forums for years, I've found that the people who are fooling themselves believing this stuff never sustain either the way of eating and/or their losses.
Well that's what I thought could be happening--that she was just overzealous about her new way of eating, and initial water loss, and that she had a bias towards the benefits and results of low-carb. But she and her husband are both pretty educated and informed. She's used MFP off and on for quite a while. He told me he used to believe that CI must be less than CO to lose weight, but he no longer believes it based on their experience (and/or internet research?). I'm really curious now to get more info from her about how meticulously she's really tracking everything.
There's no credible research that's going to support your s-i-l's position that she can eat as much as she wants and lose weight as long as she's low carb. That being said, if this will work for her for the long term, I'm happy she found something that works.
Your instincts were right. However, you can't discuss things rationally with someone who's in that mindset. Just smile and nod and do your thing.
Lol!
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I found that I easily overcounted things like butter, mayonnaise & salad dressing while I was low carb. Same with cream (for my coffee) and shredded cheese (in my salad). Those things add up!
On the other hand, I find it really easy to underestimate cereal, potatoes, and pears.0 -
I noticed a slight difference. I think those with metabolic issues do gain a very small weight loss advantage when going low carb. It seems to work out to about 6 more pounds lost in a year. Not a big difference.
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I noticed a slight difference. I think those with metabolic issues do gain a very small weight loss advantage when going low carb. It seems to work out to about 6 more pounds lost in a year. Not a big difference.
Metabolic ward studies don't support a statistic difference, and the issue being discussed is the amount of calories eaten, not the amount of weight lost.4 -
lightenup2016 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There a phenomena that I've observed in people who are enamored by a certain way of eating wherein they suddenly grossly overestimate their food intake.
I remember going to a raw vegan website and seeing all of these outrageous claims about how many calories they were eating each day and losing weight. They showed pictures of their food, and they were all seriously delusional and overcounting.
Why did this happen? Because the gurus selling the diet told them they could eat more than they used to on their old way of eating.
I saw the same thing happening on a high starch diet website. For the same reason.
And yup, same thing happens in low carb circles. It's all part of the "hack" mentality of selling diets to people. Doesn't every dieter secretly dream of being able to eat a huge amount a weigh less? Well follow this diet and all your dreams will come true! BTW, buy my book or our special products and it'll be smooth sailing!
This doesn't happen to everyone, of course there are perfectly educated people who understand that they have to create a calorie deficit and who understand that the only difference between 1500 calories on different macro mixes that shows on the scale will be down to water weight. Unfortunately, your sister-in-law isn't one of these people.
Sadly, in my experience reading weight loss forums for years, I've found that the people who are fooling themselves believing this stuff never sustain either the way of eating and/or their losses.
Well that's what I thought could be happening--that she was just overzealous about her new way of eating, and initial water loss, and that she had a bias towards the benefits and results of low-carb. But she and her husband are both pretty educated and informed. She's used MFP off and on for quite a while. He told me he used to believe that CI must be less than CO to lose weight, but he no longer believes it based on their experience (and/or internet research?). I'm really curious now to get more info from her about how meticulously she's really tracking everything.
I am surrounded by many well educated and informed colleagues. Unfortunately, they are not so much when it comes to nutrition and weight management. People tend to believe what they want, regardless of education, it seems.
Also wondering how accurarely they were tracking intake on MFP as well.2 -
Actually, there is one way that she could be able to lose more weight eating 2000 calories than 1200 calories. It does not violate the laws of physics.
IF, when eating 1200 calories/day, a person has no energy and sits all day AND IF, when eating 2000 calories/day, a person has a lot more energy and moves around a lot more (fidgeting, walking, etc.) AND IF the extra movement adds up to more than 800 calories/day, it could happen.
And since people hardly ever pay attention to that sort of calorie burn (since it isn't "exercise"), they could easily not notice.
If the 2000 calories/day is accurate (which it may be), I suspect the above phenomenon combined with underestimation of calorie intake when "just counting 1200 calories/day" is the culprit. If, for example, she had a "cheat day" every week that didn't get counted, that 1200/day would really have been much higher.1 -
I have never been able to lose weight eating 1200 calories a day, simply because I never lasted more than a week eating that little. I was hungry all the time, totally obsessed with food, and miserable. Most of the time I tried a really low calorie diet, I gave up after 3 days. When I did low carb, I wasn't hungry all the time so I was able to keep it up for much longer. I didn't have to obsess about what I was eating because my choices were so limited I didn't really need to think about it. So I was able to lose significantly more weight doing low carb vs. low calorie. However, I wasn't able to sustain that WOE for more than 6 months or so. I missed bread, beer, fruit, etc. too much. I didn't gain back all the weight I lost, but i did gain back some. Studies have compared low carb vs. low calorie/fat diets like WW. The low carb people lost more weight in the first six months, but a year later there was no difference in the outcomes. You have to pick a WOE that is sustainable over the long term.
What I like about MFP that most low calorie plans don't do is the idea of adjusting your calories when you exercise more. That has made a huge difference for me. I am a runner and walker, so adjusting my daily goals meant I wasn't starving when I was trying to lose weight and because I am so active I was able to eat a pretty normal diet, so I didn't feel deprived.
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Nope, if you drop your carbs but replace them with the same calories of fat your weight loss will be the same outside water loss.0
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Along the lines of miscalculating, it's pretty common for people to struggle with being compliant on such a low calorie goal, and have better success with a more reasonable one (1200 vs 2000 for example).
Sure, your goal is set to 1200, but if that's ridiculously low and hard to sustain and you binge eat 3/7 days a week.. you're not eating 1200. Even though people still claim to be and that it's "not working."
If 2000 is a deficit someone can be truly complaint too, sure they will "lose weight on 2000 vs 1200."
Did that make any sense?1 -
It's common to have that perception.
The reason is that people overestimate calories from some foods that are perceived as indulgent that they may have been avoiding on calorie counting diets (red meat is a good example), and also that for many (not all) low carb means that they increase satiating foods (including, weirdly, some that are low cal but mostly carbs, like vegetables to replace foods they cut out. This also causes them to increase protein in many cases, which is perceived as satiating for many, and for some of us having more fat means we feel more satisfied. So it's easy to think you are eating as much or more when you are not.
I also think it's related to a dramatic change in the diet. Some people are really bad at cutting back on things or assume little bits of things (even high cal things) can't be adding up to that much. Cut out most of the things that were contributing high cals, and it usually takes a while to find high cal things to replace it with. (That happened to me when I went 100% plant based one Lent, and I know it goes away -- I didn't feel like I was eating less, but I unintentionally lost a bunch of weight).
Finally, with a dieting mindset many of us tend to limit the more caloric elements of the low carb diet -- cheese fits in really well, but there's still the idea that cheese should be eaten in moderation, so many newbies actually end up low on fat.
Oh, one more thing: keto DOES tend to kill appetite in some, so this can be related to the misestimates too.0 -
Thanks everyone--it's probably a combination of all of this to some degree. I forgot about NEAT calorie expenditure going up with more higher intake. I've experienced that myself.
Ok, so I feel better now about not jumping on the low-carb bandwagon. I feel sure it's not sustainable for me. My husband is from Italy, and pasta and bread are mainstays in our house! It would be sad not to enjoy those with him anymore. Plus, I like beer as much as wine. I have cut back a little on all those things in the past year just to reduce calorie intake, but we still have them regularly. My SIL claims she'll never go back to eating regular pasta and bread, but I wonder how she'll sustain that.0 -
I pretty much never eat pasta & bread. They were 2 food items that I ate because they were there & common, not because I craved or liked them. Years ago I stopped eating them and haven't missed it at all. (I don't take this to extremes if I am out & order a burger or sandwich I eat the bun/bread) But that's the only times I have it.lightenup2016 wrote: »My SIL claims she'll never go back to eating regular pasta and bread, but I wonder how she'll sustain that.
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