Activity Settings vs "Eating Back" Exercise Calories
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I think this is a really helpful post! I have always kept mine at sedentary because I didn't really know if my activity level was high - I read somewhere that you're only "very active" if you're hitting 11k steps outside of purposeful exercise (please don't ask me to cite, it was years ago and just one of those weird things that stuck in my head). But I will now consider the merits of, particularly from about April - October when we are outside all the time, adjusting my activity level accordingly. For now, I eat back about 75% of purposeful exercise calories, and if my just activity calories hit over 400 or so (I work in a doctors office. Some days I don't sit for 10 hours. Somedays, it seems all our patients call each other and decide to all no show), then I'll eat another snack if I'm hungry.0
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Tacklewasher wrote: »nosebag1212 wrote: »This is why I just think using the TDEE method is the best way as long as you have regular workouts and activity levels. MFP's method requires too much micromanaging and putting 'trust' into their workout database which for an over-zealous weight loss noob looking to have the fastest results possible might not be good. TDEE and tracking your weight for 3-4 weeks and THEN making adjustments takes all the guesswork out of it.
Highlighted the important part. I don't use TDEE for just that reason. I'm very inconsistent in what I do. I'm trying to get better, but summer's here and the time is right for dancing in the streets and what I do is weather dependent. Raining tomorrow so I'm not going to do much, but I ran to work today.
Awesome that you ran to work!
I don't use the TDEE method for the same reason. I don't see this kind of inconsistency as a bad thing, either.
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I tend to advise "sedentary" because the vast majority of Americans ARE sedentary. Extremely sedentary. And people coming to MFP for the first time to lose significant amounts of weight are even MORE likely to be sedentary.
And overall, in my experience, people overestimate their activity levels, and the guidelines offered for defining your daily activity levels aren't very clear. Any many people intend to "work out" but not otherwise change their daily activities, which won't change their basic sedentism (and in fact, if a person is otherwise sedentary, 30 minutes in the gym is barely enough to move them to "lightly active."
For myself, my work day is so sedentary that even when I make the choice to walk to and from work, that activity barely lifts me into "lightly active." But over and over I see people saying, "Well, I walk the kids to school every morning so I'm active, right?" NO. You probably aren't.
In your examples? If you regularly get 12K steps a day, then you're not "sedentary" and shouldn't put yourself down as such. And all the guidelines I've read about defining daily activily levels would agree. You should set your basic setting to "active" and then not record any exercise.
On the other hand, if someone who had just joined said "okay, I have a desk job, but today I walked at lunch and went to the gym and its 4pm and I have 10k steps! And tomorrow I'm probably going to do the same thing!" I'd encourage that person to treat all of those steps as intentional exercise, because they're not part of their activities of daily life.
Your example also brings up the issue of double-counting. You got 10K steps in the course of your day, that's great! Call yourself active! But a lot of MFP noobs are wanting to record their exercise. They want to check off those goals and get credit for those gym visits. If any of the steps that make them "lightly active" happen in the gym, then they're double-counting those activities.3 -
I keep mine set to sedentary. Although I try to be active, there are days that's very difficult for me because of different health conditions. However, I try to count all the exercise I do get because it varies so much from day to day.0
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I think you're conflating a couple pieces of advice.
1. Set as sedentary (Check)
2. use a tracker (check)
3. eat half of activity calories--I think this is where the Communication breaks down. If you're tracking non-purposeful activity(lifestyle calories) you should eat all of those. However, for purposeful activities, different calculations for me(230 lb 42 year old man) running 3 miles vary from 300ish to 800ish calories. If you're using a calculator that overestimates... then you should halve those calories. If you're using a calculator that underestimates, then by all means eat all of them.0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »3. eat half of activity calories--I think this is where the Communication breaks down. If you're tracking non-purposeful activity(lifestyle calories) you should eat all of those. However, for purposeful activities, different calculations for me(230 lb 42 year old man) running 3 miles vary from 300ish to 800ish calories. If you're using a calculator that overestimates... then you should halve those calories. If you're using a calculator that underestimates, then by all means eat all of them.
I appreciate your points. However, I am wary of those who automatically and arbitrarily choose to eat half "just to be safe". My original post has little to do with those who understand how this all really works, but more toward those who choose to always "be safe". In these cases "being safe" might actually be the opposite.
As I mention in the original post, an activity like walking can be both (actually either) purposeful exercise or regular activity. In the example I used, it could be counted as either. I choose, for example to walk everywhere I can on the campus that I work, which is purposeful. It is also regular activity. So I set my activity accordingly. I don't then split the difference in MFP's initial settings between sedentary and active "just to be safe". If you don't necessarily trust your tracker numbers, why not just trust MFP's estimate with activity level?
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nosebag1212 wrote: »This is why I just think using the TDEE method is the best way as long as you have regular workouts and activity levels. MFP's method requires too much micromanaging and putting 'trust' into their workout database which for an over-zealous weight loss noob looking to have the fastest results possible might not be good. TDEE and tracking your weight for 3-4 weeks and THEN making adjustments takes all the guesswork out of it.
Given the large number of people using either a fitness tracker, heart rate monitor, other app (such as MapMyWalk) or exercise machine estimates, I'm not sure it's reasonable to put MFP's exercise database at the heart of the problem.
No matter how you estimate, tracking your weight for 3-4 weeks (maybe longer if a premenopausal woman) then adjusting is the way to go. On that we agree.
I'm truly sedentary outside of intentional exercise, and have to put my activity at "active" (not just "lightly active") to get MFP to give me anything even remotely close to an accurate calorie goal (even "active" is a little low). These settings - any of them - are not gospel. There's plenty of individual variation, from many sources.
Also, "the fastest results possible" may not be all that great (healthful) a plan, regardless of how that "noob" (hate the term!) executes that plan.3 -
Ok, so I have read this whole thread and I am still confused. I still don't understand the "eating" back your exercise thing. If you are trying to have a deficit, how else would you get it? Seriously I'm not being a smart-alec, I just don't get how I'm supposed to use the numbers MFP gives me.
First let me give you my facts...
I have been Working at getting healthier for 3 month and lost about 24 pounds (initially I was doing more than 2 pounds a week but after researching about lean tissue and sagging skin, I slowed down so that only about 6 pounds were from this past month).
My "normal" activity can range anywhere from 1200 steps to 15000 steps - some days I am a full time student at my PC all day and others I am a maniac mom on the run).
My exercise is as follows (I am religious with my schedule):
Crossfit for between 45 and 60 minutes Monday, Wednesday & Friday.
Crossfit and weight training with personal trainer for 60 minutes Tuesday & Thursday.
Walk/Run between 2 and 3.5 miles Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday (when I say walk run, I mostly walk but at a pace that is just shy being out of breath - heart-rate up in the mid to high 140's. keep in mind I'm so short my run is not much faster than my walk).
So, my MFP settings are:
Age/sex: 45 Female
Current weight 195.3
Height: 4ft. 11in.
Goal weight: 140
Weekly Goal: lose 1lb per week
Activity level: Lightly Active
This was yesterday (typical day for exercise cals is between 400 & 700)
Goal 1660 - food 1574 + exercise 674 = 760 remaining (so am I not really supposed to have the 760 remaining? was I supposed to eat those too?
1- do I have my settings set right?
2- am I supposed to eat the 760 calories I had remaining? (I would be so FULL!)
3- am I doing anything right? (I mean, I know I've lost weight but seriously I NEVER exercised before starting).
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@mrstrod1 You have a calorie deficit before exercise is factored in. You can lose weight with no exercise whatsoever, a lot of people do. When you exercise, you make a bigger deficit, and too much of a good thing isn't always better - that's the kind of thinking that got a lot of us into this in the first place.2
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InkAndApples wrote: »I'm definitely one of the people who insists on sedantary (but eating all exercise calories back and tracking steps) but that's because my activity level varies so wildly (on Sunday I did 600 steps, nope, not kidding; today I hit 10K by lunch time) - I can't think of a better method that doesn't risk wildly over or under estimating my exercise calories.
I've never understood the "eat back 50%" thing. Does that number actually come from somewhere? Surely you just pick a course of action, stick with it for a month or two and then adjust based on your rate of loss? I know that for me I've found sedantary settings, eating back all calories given and logging all steps/exercise has me losing exactly on schedule.
This is exactly why I do it. My activity levels vary wildly as do my types of exercise routines. Setting to sedentary, logging exercises, and tracking steps works best for me to stay sane.0 -
@NorthCascades - so I should not have between 400 & 700 remaining each day? Would I lose about a pound a week if I ate the 1660 goal AND the 674 exercise calories from Yesterday? That means I should have really eaten 2334 calories yesterday? More confused now!
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Ok, so I have read this whole thread and I am still confused. I still don't understand the "eating" back your exercise thing. If you are trying to have a deficit, how else would you get it? Seriously I'm not being a smart-alec, I just don't get how I'm supposed to use the numbers MFP gives me.
First let me give you my facts...
I have been Working at getting healthier for 3 month and lost about 24 pounds (initially I was doing more than 2 pounds a week but after researching about lean tissue and sagging skin, I slowed down so that only about 6 pounds were from this past month).
My "normal" activity can range anywhere from 1200 steps to 15000 steps - some days I am a full time student at my PC all day and others I am a maniac mom on the run).
My exercise is as follows (I am religious with my schedule):
Crossfit for between 45 and 60 minutes Monday, Wednesday & Friday.
Crossfit and weight training with personal trainer for 60 minutes Tuesday & Thursday.
Walk/Run between 2 and 3.5 miles Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday (when I say walk run, I mostly walk but at a pace that is just shy being out of breath - heart-rate up in the mid to high 140's. keep in mind I'm so short my run is not much faster than my walk).
So, my MFP settings are:
Age/sex: 45 Female
Current weight 195.3
Height: 4ft. 11in.
Goal weight: 140
Weekly Goal: lose 1lb per week
Activity level: Lightly Active
This was yesterday (typical day for exercise cals is between 400 & 700)
Goal 1660 - food 1574 + exercise 674 = 760 remaining (so am I not really supposed to have the 760 remaining? was I supposed to eat those too?
1- do I have my settings set right?
2- am I supposed to eat the 760 calories I had remaining? (I would be so FULL!)
3- am I doing anything right? (I mean, I know I've lost weight but seriously I NEVER exercised before starting).
How much weight do you have to lose? If you're set at 1660 calories to lose 2lbs a week, then you have eaten more than 1660 + 760-=2420 calories in the past without getting overly full.
If you burned it, you earned it
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Ok, so I have read this whole thread and I am still confused. I still don't understand the "eating" back your exercise thing. If you are trying to have a deficit, how else would you get it? Seriously I'm not being a smart-alec, I just don't get how I'm supposed to use the numbers MFP gives me.
First let me give you my facts...
I have been Working at getting healthier for 3 month and lost about 24 pounds (initially I was doing more than 2 pounds a week but after researching about lean tissue and sagging skin, I slowed down so that only about 6 pounds were from this past month).
My "normal" activity can range anywhere from 1200 steps to 15000 steps - some days I am a full time student at my PC all day and others I am a maniac mom on the run).
My exercise is as follows (I am religious with my schedule):
Crossfit for between 45 and 60 minutes Monday, Wednesday & Friday.
Crossfit and weight training with personal trainer for 60 minutes Tuesday & Thursday.
Walk/Run between 2 and 3.5 miles Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday (when I say walk run, I mostly walk but at a pace that is just shy being out of breath - heart-rate up in the mid to high 140's. keep in mind I'm so short my run is not much faster than my walk).
So, my MFP settings are:
Age/sex: 45 Female
Current weight 195.3
Height: 4ft. 11in.
Goal weight: 140
Weekly Goal: lose 1lb per week
Activity level: Lightly Active
This was yesterday (typical day for exercise cals is between 400 & 700)
Goal 1660 - food 1574 + exercise 674 = 760 remaining (so am I not really supposed to have the 760 remaining? was I supposed to eat those too?
1- do I have my settings set right?
2- am I supposed to eat the 760 calories I had remaining? (I would be so FULL!)
3- am I doing anything right? (I mean, I know I've lost weight but seriously I NEVER exercised before starting).
You're really not supposed to have the 760 remaining. You were supposed to eat those, too, or at least most of them (I might start at eating back half of the calories, because many methods of calculating calorie burns seem to overestimate, but 674 doesn't seem insane for an hour of crossfit + weight training and then a two-mile or more walk.
MFP already includes a deficit based on what you would burn without intentional exercise. It is designed for you to eat your exercise calories.
Look at it this way. Your goal is to lose 1 lb per week, but in the last month you've been losing 1.5 lbs a week. That says you should be eating an average of 250 calories more each day. (Was today average?)0 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »I agree with the vast response of people not understanding the difference between lightly active and sedentary. People think if they go to the gym after sitting for 8+ hours a day at an office job (plus commute) that they are lightly active, and then go ahead and log their exercise on top of that. Not the case. I work out for 2+ hours x day between at home dumbbell/band work/stretching, cardio and in-gym machine/barbell work and I still have my settings at sedentary because what do I do the rest of the day? Sit at my computer and do my job. If I were a construction worker or something like that it'd be more reasonable to have lightly active as a setting. People just need to grasp that concept. So when taking that into perspective it may be good for them to do stuff "just to be safe"
For the purpose of calculating calories out:
activity setting = pick a number of calories that you THINK you will burn during your day.
exercise = the rest of the activities that burn calories and were NOT included in your activity setting number.
really: it doesn't have any higher religious significance.
IF you walk for 45 minutes back and forth from school or your car or at home talking on the phone... sedentary is done.
If you're moving around for a couple of hours (and you're NOT recording that separately as exercise) you're firmly in the active category.
if you count your lunch hour walk as exercise AND use it to get you out of sedentary and into lightly active, YES, you've double counted.
The amount of people who don't move around for even one full hour during a day is staggering and has included myself during a large portion of my adult life. Sedentary might be appropriate in this case.
Note that, technically, between 45 minutes and 1 hour you're verging on lightly active).
MFP activity factors are 1.25, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8 and then you add whatever was not included
Scooby activity factors are 1.2, 1.375, 1.55, 1.725 and 1.9 and you are supposed to have included everything
It is just factor x BMR
Nothing magical.
Just a rough estimate that you should adjust based on your own results using a trending weight application over a period of 2-3 (male/post menopause) or 4-6 (pre-menopausal females) weeks
Frankly, as someone else mentioned, our food intake logs are probably a larger source of error.1 -
I choose sedentary because I spend all day in front of my computer. I'm a freelance editor working from home. Now, I push myself to exercise and, because I work from home and because I don't actually have much work these days, I can get in walks of 2+ hours. And I track every minute of walking I do outside the house. 15-minute grocery store runs? They add up. I also use a fitness glider. I don't count the calories in pure strength training, but if it's a cardio-and-weights interval thing? I log it under 'light calisthenics'. But all of this is stuff I choose to do, not exercise I'd get by virtue of being on my feet all day.
So I figure sedentary is the best setting for me, and I'm losing weight at around the rate I should be on average. (One week I might be down 0.2, the week after 2.2. I'm shooting for 1 to 1.5.)0 -
So, my MFP settings are:
Age/sex: 45 Female
Current weight 195.3
Height: 4ft. 11in.
Goal weight: 140
Weekly Goal: lose 1lb per week
Activity level: Lightly Active
This was yesterday (typical day for exercise cals is between 400 & 700)
Goal 1660 - food 1574 + exercise 674 = 760 remaining (so am I not really supposed to have the 760 remaining? was I supposed to eat those too?
1- do I have my settings set right?
2- am I supposed to eat the 760 calories I had remaining? (I would be so FULL!)
3- am I doing anything right? (I mean, I know I've lost weight but seriously I NEVER exercised before starting).
1. See above about what is included or not included in setting yourself up correctly. Whether you're lightly active, sedentary, or active depends on which and how much of your exercise you log separately.
2. You are supposed to eat a significant portion of the exercise calories back IF you want to lose at the rate you selected. I think the problem here is that your exercise level is now through the roof as compared to before and you can probably eat more today and lose than you were probably eating in the past while gaining.
3. You're doing a lot of things right and you've discovered that you were sedentary for a large part of your life and are now having fun with exercise.
However, you have to watch things a little bit so that you don't end up in a trap. I know that people are going to consider the following to probably be a little bit controversial... but...
You are exercising every day intensely and sometimes doing two sessions a day. This (and the extra food and weight loss it gives you) will work great till the first big injury or big life event that derails you for a significant period of time.
My advice is to figure out the level of exercise that you truly believe you can stick to LONG TERM. Like 5+ years. Maybe even 10!
Then maybe exercise a little bit more than that... but not a heck of a lot more than that.
And eat according to the calories that a person at your goal weight who was doing as much or a tiny bit less exercise/activity than you intend to do long term...
To your implied question: if you over exercise and under eat longer term your body will partially adapt thus reducing your underlying deficit and rate of loss.2 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »I choose sedentary because I spend all day in front of my computer. I'm a freelance editor working from home. Now, I push myself to exercise and, because I work from home and because I don't actually have much work these days, I can get in walks of 2+ hours. And I track every minute of walking I do outside the house. 15-minute grocery store runs? They add up. I also use a fitness glider. I don't count the calories in pure strength training, but if it's a cardio-and-weights interval thing? I log it under 'light calisthenics'. But all of this is stuff I choose to do, not exercise I'd get by virtue of being on my feet all day.
So I figure sedentary is the best setting for me, and I'm losing weight at around the rate I should be on average. (One week I might be down 0.2, the week after 2.2. I'm shooting for 1 to 1.5.)
We do pretty much the same thing...minus the glider thing. I am losing consistently.1 -
That's hard for anyone else to answer, but as long as those facts are true, yes. Activity level is always a bit of a guess, but experience will tell you if you need to adjust. The activity level should reflect your work & routine home chores, but not intentional exercise you add separately.Ok, so I have read this whole thread and I am still confused. I still don't understand the "eating" back your exercise thing. If you are trying to have a deficit, how else would you get it? Seriously I'm not being a smart-alec, I just don't get how I'm supposed to use the numbers MFP gives me.
First let me give you my facts...
I have been Working at getting healthier for 3 month and lost about 24 pounds (initially I was doing more than 2 pounds a week but after researching about lean tissue and sagging skin, I slowed down so that only about 6 pounds were from this past month).
My "normal" activity can range anywhere from 1200 steps to 15000 steps - some days I am a full time student at my PC all day and others I am a maniac mom on the run).
My exercise is as follows (I am religious with my schedule):
Crossfit for between 45 and 60 minutes Monday, Wednesday & Friday.
Crossfit and weight training with personal trainer for 60 minutes Tuesday & Thursday.
Walk/Run between 2 and 3.5 miles Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday (when I say walk run, I mostly walk but at a pace that is just shy being out of breath - heart-rate up in the mid to high 140's. keep in mind I'm so short my run is not much faster than my walk).
So, my MFP settings are:
Age/sex: 45 Female
Current weight 195.3
Height: 4ft. 11in.
Goal weight: 140
Weekly Goal: lose 1lb per week
Activity level: Lightly Active
This was yesterday (typical day for exercise cals is between 400 & 700)
Goal 1660 - food 1574 + exercise 674 = 760 remaining (so am I not really supposed to have the 760 remaining? was I supposed to eat those too?
1- do I have my settings set right?
Yes, you are, as long as you have confidence that the exercise calories are not overestimated. (They don't sound crazy high, but again it's hard for a 3rd party to guess whether something that sounds possible is what's really happening.)2- am I supposed to eat the 760 calories I had remaining? (I would be so FULL!)
MFP calculates your base calorie goal so that it thinks you'd lose 1 pound a week (per your goal setting) without any exercise. Therefore, when you exercise, you "eat back" the exercise calories to stay at the estimated 1 pound per week loss rate, rather than losing more.
(At your current weight, with around 50 pounds to lose, 1 pound per week is a sensible loss rate. You might want to slow it a bit more when you get 15-25 pounds from goal. Be aware that loss rates are estimates, so you should adjust your calorie goal - perhaps by tweaking activity level - if your actual average loss after a few weeks is faster or slower than your target.)
If you feel full, consider adding calorie dense foods that are not too satiating for you, such as some nuts, a little extra olive oil on salad, avocado, or a small treat like chocolate, wine, or ice cream.
It sounds like you're doing very well in general.3- am I doing anything right? (I mean, I know I've lost weight but seriously I NEVER exercised before starting).
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Your exercise routine sounds quite ambitious, in fact, for someone new to it. If it fits into your overall life well, is fun for you, and seems like something you can sustain over the long haul, then that's absolutely perfect.
I'm a big believer that weight loss is just practice for a permanent healthier life, so I don't advocate doing things during weight loss that one can't visualize doing forever, other than the moderate calorie deficit. That way, transition to maintenance is a simple matter of eating a few more calories daily, rather than some major upheaval of habits. Others' opinions may differ!
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It's also worth noting that if you have a lot of calories left at the end of the day because you were more active than usual, there's no rule that says you have to eat them on that same day. If you're not hungry and would prefer to save them for the next day (when you might be hungrier) or a special event a couple of days later, your body will not care. It will only care if you consistently undereat.0
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@NorthCascades - so I should not have between 400 & 700 remaining each day? Would I lose about a pound a week if I ate the 1660 goal AND the 674 exercise calories from Yesterday? That means I should have really eaten 2334 calories yesterday? More confused now!
You are probably thinking about almost every other weight loss app out there.
You estimate your PLANNED amount of weekly exercise - you get a daily average burn - you take a deficit and eat that each day.
That's the weekly average TDEE method.
With that plan, which is what makes people believe they must exercise to lose weight, you do have to do your plan to lose the planned amount.
Sadly that table from a 1919 study ( @PAV8888 gave the details) only takes into account exercise - no differences in daily life.
So your desk jockey and mailman with equal physical stats each doing 5 hrs of exercise weekly would be given the same TDEE to work with.
That's obviously wrong.
Hence MFP using much more recent studies for it's activity factors that only apply to daily life without exercise.
Then exercise is added in when actually done.
More reliable for people that may not be great about getting in their planned workouts, and incentive to eat more to do them.
I'll comment too on MFP activity levels - Sedentary if you are syncing an activity tracker.
I doubt your days are so wildly different that within a week you can't figure out about how much extra adjustment MFP will correct itself with, and then you can plan the day better to incorporate it.
For those without trackers - honesty.
And I've found most that get trackers commenting in the forums, before being inspired to move more - discover they were getting adjustments above sedentary already.
Even desk jobs - but if they had kids (especially the moms, let's be honest here for majority), they bumped on up to Lightly Active without an issues, even more so when the weekend is included.1
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