Is it really true?

Rusty740

Some background.

I'm on my first bulk. Started after a year of weight loss including slow loss at the end and then a reverse diet to maintenance. I've been tracking gainzzzz and have figured out that I'm gaining approximately 55% muscle 45% fat. I'm in my early 40's so I don't expect it to be all muscle and I know my lifting program could be better, so I'm watching this in terms of how much calorie surplus I'm eating. It's only been about a month or so, and I have to adjust as I go so I don't turn into fatty Mc fat fat.

When it comes time to cut in about 3 months or so (I'm planning to go up about 15 lbs total, I've gone up 4 lbs already) I'm just wondering if it's really true you can keep most of the muscle you have gained. I understand that to do that I'll be lifting at least as heavy as I was when I began the cut, and my protein will be in check (I aim a bit high at 1g/lb body weight). I expect to cut at about a 20% deficit from TDEE.

Now I'd be happy with even keeping 75% muscle but I've been reading some woo that says you 'can keep it all' or some such. Since this is my first bulk/cut cycle and I'm new at lifting (but older in age) I figured my muscle gains would be decent, but I'm worried about losing muscle on the way back down.

How have you guys seen the muscle loss occur on a cut.

Gallowmere1984

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/grow-like-a-new-lifter-again/

TL;DR- don't worry so much about muscle loss on a cut.

bethany_rose8

You just need to cut slowly (set at lose 0.25kg per week) and progress your lifts in some ways to ensure you maintain as much muscle as possible. You can achieve progressive overload by increasing weight, reps or adding in things like eccentric training ( for example taking 4 seconds in go down in a squat) which can increase strength therefore you will most likely be maintaining muscle mass

pbryd

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

TL;DR- don't worry so much about muscle loss on a cut.

I've wondered in the past, why do people (who aren't competing) worry about muscle loss during a cut.

Muscle memory is real, so I'm going to assume it will quickly go back on you finish cutting and return to maintenance or small surplus.

Skyle33

A lot of this depends on your cut. If you plan to cut and stay >10% body fat then you won't experience significant muscle loss if you take it slowly like Bethany said. In addition, when you begin the cut, don't drastically lower calories and keep from over doing cardio in the first few weeks. Gradually lower calories and gradually increase hiit training. Up the intensity in your workouts and continue strength training. This should not be difficult unless you plan to significantly lower carbs (which I do not recommend for retaining muscle). 15 pounds in 3 months isn't bad but the muscle will come off as fast as it arrived if you rush through a bulk. Try it out for now but in the future, consider lean bulking for an extended period of time, it's less stressful on the body and you'll stay looking good/lean.

Rammer123

Rusty740 wrote: »

Some background.

I'm on my first bulk. Started after a year of weight loss including slow loss at the end and then a reverse diet to maintenance. I've been tracking gainzzzz and have figured out that I'm gaining approximately 55% muscle 45% fat. I'm in my early 40's so I don't expect it to be all muscle and I know my lifting program could be better, so I'm watching this in terms of how much calorie surplus I'm eating. It's only been about a month or so, and I have to adjust as I go so I don't turn into fatty Mc fat fat.

When it comes time to cut in about 3 months or so (I'm planning to go up about 15 lbs total, I've gone up 4 lbs already) I'm just wondering if it's really true you can keep most of the muscle you have gained. I understand that to do that I'll be lifting at least as heavy as I was when I began the cut, and my protein will be in check (I aim a bit high at 1g/lb body weight). I expect to cut at about a 20% deficit from TDEE.

Now I'd be happy with even keeping 75% muscle but I've been reading some woo that says you 'can keep it all' or some such. Since this is my first bulk/cut cycle and I'm new at lifting (but older in age) I figured my muscle gains would be decent, but I'm worried about losing muscle on the way back down.

How have you guys seen the muscle loss occur on a cut.

If you are actually building at those percentages of muscle, that's pretty solid. If you go up the 15 pounds of total weight, we'll call it about 8lbs of muscle and 7 pounds of fat. That's literally a 4-6 week cut and you're up probably 6-8 pounds of muscle in a few months. Definitely not bad. 8 pounds of muscle would completely change how you look.

Rusty740

RAD_Fitness wrote: »

Rusty740 wrote: »

Some background.

I'm on my first bulk. Started after a year of weight loss including slow loss at the end and then a reverse diet to maintenance. I've been tracking gainzzzz and have figured out that I'm gaining approximately 55% muscle 45% fat. I'm in my early 40's so I don't expect it to be all muscle and I know my lifting program could be better, so I'm watching this in terms of how much calorie surplus I'm eating. It's only been about a month or so, and I have to adjust as I go so I don't turn into fatty Mc fat fat.

When it comes time to cut in about 3 months or so (I'm planning to go up about 15 lbs total, I've gone up 4 lbs already) I'm just wondering if it's really true you can keep most of the muscle you have gained. I understand that to do that I'll be lifting at least as heavy as I was when I began the cut, and my protein will be in check (I aim a bit high at 1g/lb body weight). I expect to cut at about a 20% deficit from TDEE.

Now I'd be happy with even keeping 75% muscle but I've been reading some woo that says you 'can keep it all' or some such. Since this is my first bulk/cut cycle and I'm new at lifting (but older in age) I figured my muscle gains would be decent, but I'm worried about losing muscle on the way back down.

How have you guys seen the muscle loss occur on a cut.

If you are actually building at those percentages of muscle, that's pretty solid. If you go up the 15 pounds of total weight, we'll call it about 8lbs of muscle and 7 pounds of fat. That's literally a 4-6 week cut and you're up probably 6-8 pounds of muscle in a few months. Definitely not bad. 8 pounds of muscle would completely change how you look.

That's good info, I'm hoping two bulk/cut cycles will get me what I want for next summer, but I'm happy to hear that 8 lbs would really make a difference. It's a bit of a guess I know, but I'm trying to hit the 'max' of 2 lbs muscle per month. Fingers crossed for noob gains. I was wondering how long a cut that it would be. I was figuring around 2 - 3 months once I hit 15% BF, but I guess it just depends how well I stick to the deficit.

I think since transitioning to bulk, after the first few weeks of 4 lbs/month, it seems to be slowing to about 2.6 lbs BW/month at about 1.4 lbs muscle. I'll need to adjust lifting volume and calories up a bit I think. Building a power cage at home over the next few weeks to get my squat and bench up. So far all I'm using is my BF scale to tell me how much my BF has moved, but I adjust it by adding 4%. It tells me 8.9% I write down 12.9% because I think its wrong by about that much, but I do think on average it will be right that I've gone up 1% it just won't hit the absolute number properly.

Rusty740

Skyle33 wrote: »

A lot of this depends on your cut. If you plan to cut and stay >10% body fat then you won't experience significant muscle loss if you take it slowly like Bethany said. In addition, when you begin the cut, don't drastically lower calories and keep from over doing cardio in the first few weeks. Gradually lower calories and gradually increase hiit training. Up the intensity in your workouts and continue strength training. This should not be difficult unless you plan to significantly lower carbs (which I do not recommend for retaining muscle). 15 pounds in 3 months isn't bad but the muscle will come off as fast as it arrived if you rush through a bulk. Try it out for now but in the future, consider lean bulking for an extended period of time, it's less stressful on the body and you'll stay looking good/lean.

That's a good point. I gather the longer the bulk or maintenance the more the muscle stays? I had read that somewhere. Maybe a month or two maintenance after the initial bulk would be a good plan?

Rammer123

Rusty740 wrote: »

RAD_Fitness wrote: »

Rusty740 wrote: »

Some background.

I'm on my first bulk. Started after a year of weight loss including slow loss at the end and then a reverse diet to maintenance. I've been tracking gainzzzz and have figured out that I'm gaining approximately 55% muscle 45% fat. I'm in my early 40's so I don't expect it to be all muscle and I know my lifting program could be better, so I'm watching this in terms of how much calorie surplus I'm eating. It's only been about a month or so, and I have to adjust as I go so I don't turn into fatty Mc fat fat.

When it comes time to cut in about 3 months or so (I'm planning to go up about 15 lbs total, I've gone up 4 lbs already) I'm just wondering if it's really true you can keep most of the muscle you have gained. I understand that to do that I'll be lifting at least as heavy as I was when I began the cut, and my protein will be in check (I aim a bit high at 1g/lb body weight). I expect to cut at about a 20% deficit from TDEE.

Now I'd be happy with even keeping 75% muscle but I've been reading some woo that says you 'can keep it all' or some such. Since this is my first bulk/cut cycle and I'm new at lifting (but older in age) I figured my muscle gains would be decent, but I'm worried about losing muscle on the way back down.

How have you guys seen the muscle loss occur on a cut.

If you are actually building at those percentages of muscle, that's pretty solid. If you go up the 15 pounds of total weight, we'll call it about 8lbs of muscle and 7 pounds of fat. That's literally a 4-6 week cut and you're up probably 6-8 pounds of muscle in a few months. Definitely not bad. 8 pounds of muscle would completely change how you look.

That's good info, I'm hoping two bulk/cut cycles will get me what I want for next summer, but I'm happy to hear that 8 lbs would really make a difference. It's a bit of a guess I know, but I'm trying to hit the 'max' of 2 lbs muscle per month. Fingers crossed for noob gains. I was wondering how long a cut that it would be. I was figuring around 2 - 3 months once I hit 15% BF, but I guess it just depends how well I stick to the deficit.

I think since transitioning to bulk, after the first few weeks of 4 lbs/month, it seems to be slowing to about 2.6 lbs BW/month at about 1.4 lbs muscle. I'll need to adjust lifting volume and calories up a bit I think. Building a power cage at home over the next few weeks to get my squat and bench up. So far all I'm using is my BF scale to tell me how much my BF has moved, but I adjust it by adding 4%. It tells me 8.9% I write down 12.9% because I think its wrong by about that much, but I do think on average it will be right that I've gone up 1% it just won't hit the absolute number properly.

Putting on 2lb/month is tough even for a 20 year old guy who's training hard. That would come out to 12 pounds in 6 months which is a lot of muscle mass. It is possible for someone new to lifting and hasn't done much sports or any sort of working out before, but for the majority of people, if you can get 1/lb a month you're doing pretty well. Once you do a bulk and cutting cycle, or do a super lean bulk, you realize that when the scale starts moving up quick, you're really just packing on a fair bit of fat.

The ACTUAL bf% doesn't really matter all that much, it'll be a good tool if you are consistently using it the same way.

For instance if now you are 180 at 10% bf, and then you build up a little, get to 195 at 14% bf, and then when you cut back down, you're now 186 at 10% bf, you can probably assume you've successfully put on about 6 pounds of muscle.

Muscle is tough to put on, it's a lot easier to lose fat than it is to build muscle, so be patient and you'll see success.