Am liking the scales but not the mirror
Spitspot81
Posts: 208 Member
So I am looking for advice, but am not sure if anyone will be able to relate to my issues.
I am at a healthy weight of 125lbs..I am 5.4 and 35 years old. Back when I started I knew that 125lbs would be a great number, in fact it's the lightest I have been for years.
However I am unhappy with what I see in the mirror, in fact I feel that I look a lot larger than the scale weight.
I lift 5 times per week and am very active in my steps. My upper body is very toned, my legs are certainly gaining some definition , but I feel so wide around the midriff...this is clearly where I hold my fat.
I have been lifting for years and so am
Definitely not a beginner. Do I just accept that I will always be wide around the waist..do I reduce calories further-I am concerned I may look gaunt up top. Or do I incorporate some different exercises into my routine in order to lose inches around my tummy?
Any input gratefully received
Thanks
I am at a healthy weight of 125lbs..I am 5.4 and 35 years old. Back when I started I knew that 125lbs would be a great number, in fact it's the lightest I have been for years.
However I am unhappy with what I see in the mirror, in fact I feel that I look a lot larger than the scale weight.
I lift 5 times per week and am very active in my steps. My upper body is very toned, my legs are certainly gaining some definition , but I feel so wide around the midriff...this is clearly where I hold my fat.
I have been lifting for years and so am
Definitely not a beginner. Do I just accept that I will always be wide around the waist..do I reduce calories further-I am concerned I may look gaunt up top. Or do I incorporate some different exercises into my routine in order to lose inches around my tummy?
Any input gratefully received
Thanks
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Replies
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HOW do you lift 5 times per week? What weights? What routine?
If you feel like you are "wide around the midriff" then you need to cut body fat.
There is no other way. Changing exercises will not make a difference unless it increases your calorie deficit (CO).
Tighten up your CI and start with cutting about 250 calories a day out.
Playing with the macros can help some people. Stay with it for a month and see if you notice results.
If not, add more CO (exercise) or cut calories another by another 250.
Rinse and repeat.5 -
Thanks for your reply. I understand what you are saying!! Yeah maybe I need a kick up the rear and more accurate logging and tracking, with a calorie reduction.
I follow a bikini body guide which in general follows 2 x upper 2 x lower and 1 full body. I use free weights and cable machines.2 -
My advice on the "bikini body" goal is to make sure you are lifting somewhere in the 5RM to 8RM range and focus on compound lifts.
Focusing on isolation work when you do not have a strong foundation can take you years to hit your goals, if ever.
Coaches refer to that as "Majoring in the minors..."
I recommend "Thinner Leaner Stronger" for most women.
https://www.amazon.com/Thinner-Leaner-Stronger-Building-Ultimate/dp/B00DC33C9S
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One thing to remember is that you don't have much control over your body shape - if you're an Apple shape, you're not going to change into an Hourglass shape with exercise or weight loss.2
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That is a fallacy that is propagated by people who are adverse to hard work or prefer to make excuses.One thing to remember is that you don't have much control over your body shape - if you're an Apple shape, you're not going to change into an Hourglass shape with exercise or weight loss.
Show me a woman at 15% or 20% body fat and "Apple" shaped and then we will talk.
Until then, I call BS.
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That is a fallacy that is propagated by people who are adverse to hard work or prefer to make excuses.One thing to remember is that you don't have much control over your body shape - if you're an Apple shape, you're not going to change into an Hourglass shape with exercise or weight loss.
Show me a woman at 15% or 20% body fat and "Apple" shaped and then we will talk.
Until then, I call BS.
toxicon is basically saying you cannot change your body shape/frame structure with exercise or losing fat. you can improve how your body looks but if you have wide hips or wide shoulders you cannot change that.so if you have a wide set waist you can lose the fat on your waist/belly are but it doesnt mean it will get smaller.3 -
@CharlieBeansmomTracey
I think I understand what you are saying but by definition...
If you lose enough fat (thus shrinking your belly and body fat to say, 18%), have wider "birthing" hips, and ANY breastesess at all (with or without "wide shoulders"), wouldn't that result in more of an "hourglass" than an "Apple" shape?
Even with no bewbies, an "Apple" or "Pear" shape is not in the cards.
Sorry, but most of that is adipose tissue, not "hip bone"...
At least "Pics or it didn't happen." You may still not convince me, but we can debate it.0 -
@CharlieBeansmomTracey
I think I understand what you are saying but by definition...
If you lose fat on your abdomen (thus shrinking your belly and body fat to say, 18%), have wider hips, and ANY breastesess at all, wouldn't that result in more of an "hourglass" than an "Apple" shape?
not always,because they still may have a wider set of hips making their waist wider. when fat(even before that) I was more of a pear shape,I lost weight and a lot of fat and am still a pear shape.since I carry most of my weight from the waist down..Im at about 24% fat compared to probably 40-50% fat before. I have always been shaped like this even before kids. the only thing that is bigger is my hips(cause having kids can change things).even at my lowest weight I had big hips and thighs.my belly is close to being flat too.
the only exceptions in how your body structure change is if you are still growing,or you are pregnant then your body structure can change. but just gaining fat/weight over your frame and losing it is not going to change bone structure. if you were an apple shape before you gained weight(bigger hips,waist and bust),then losing weight may not change that much.you could still stay an apple shape(which doesnt mean round) even at a low body weight/fat percentage.
its like a thigh gap some women have them naturally and some no matter what they do will not have one. you can sculpt your body to give the illusion you are an hour glass shape which is what I think you are saying. its all about weight distribution too you can look like you are one shape when you are another.0 -
@CharlieBeansmomTracey
I think I understand what you are saying but by definition...
If you lose enough fat (thus shrinking your belly and body fat to say, 18%), have wider "birthing" hips, and ANY breastesess at all (with or without "wide shoulders"), wouldn't that result in more of an "hourglass" than an "Apple" shape?
Even with no bewbies, an "Apple" or "Pear" shape is not in the cards.
Sorry, but most of that is adipose tissue, not "hip bone"...
At least "Pics or it didn't happen." You may still not convince me, but we can debate it.
I actually agree with BOTH of you. The key here, IMHO, is the body fat %. I do consider myself a pear shape, but with lifting my shape has evened out.
It's hard to maintain a very low body fat percentage, though, so if I put on a few pounds, of course it goes to my hips and thighs. If I stay very strict then my lower half is proportionate to my top half.4 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
toxicon is basically saying you cannot change your body shape/frame structure with exercise or losing fat. you can improve how your body looks but if you have wide hips or wide shoulders you cannot change that.so if you have a wide set waist you can lose the fat on your waist/belly are but it doesnt mean it will get smaller.
Bingo. I'm somewhere between 16 and 20 percent body fat, according to calipers. I have very little fat on my arms, none on my calves, and very little on my thighs and back. It is almost all in my torso. I'm short waisted with a wide rib cage. Dieting or recomp aren't going to change where genetics said my frame is going to fall.
I cannot change my bone structure -- quite literally at this point, you can see bones through my back/shoulders/back side of the rib cage. I'm still an apple -- a small apple, I suppose, but still an apple. My measurements are in the ballpark of 34.5 (chest)-28/29 (waist)-34.5 (hips). So I suppose maybe an hourglass, but not by much. For tops and A-line dresses, I usually can get away with a small or XS (and sometimes need less, when it's available). For shorts/pants/skirts, either a 27 (denim) or a 4. But for dresses and swimsuits that actually go over my waist? I have to go up to an 8.
And at this point, short of actually shaving the fat off and surgically attaching it elsewhere, I can't physically change how I am built.
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I'm not willing to debate it with you now, sorry.
Like I said, if you get down to around 18% and still feel like you are fruit shaped then we can discuss it then.
"about 24% fat" is a long way from being hydrostatically weighed and demonstrated to be within 15% to 20% body fat.
None of the "pear shaped" women I have ever known or coached who did the work to get into the 18% range looked remotely apple or pear shaped in the end. Their bust sizes did shrink a bit, but that is to be expected.
Wider hips or a thigh gap due to bone shape or density does not affect your body composition.
Furthermore, it rarely affects your overall appearance as dramatically as some people want to think, unless you are competing on a stage.
Put muscle on those thighs and few people would ever noticed the "gap".
It is hard work, but it can be done.
Weight distribution excuses go out the window when you actually drop the additional 10lbs or 15lbs of fat you didn't realize you were carrying or "distributing".2 -
collectingblues wrote: »Bingo. I'm somewhere between 16 and 20 percent body fat, according to calipers. I have very little fat on my arms, none on my calves, and very little on my thighs and back
1) 16%-20% is a very large range in itself but until you have it professionally measured your claim is dubious.
You are using the calipers wrong if that is your measurement range
2) "you can see bones through my back/shoulders/back side of the rib cage" tells me you have no muscle mass. Again, you are using the calipers wrong. Caliper use presumes muscle mass.
They are suitable for tracking changes but are never used to accurately measure body fat percentage.
3) "And at this point, short of actually shaving the fat off and surgically attaching it elsewhere, I can't physically change how I am built."
Try putting on some muscle and cutting your body fat percentage instead of thinking of "moving" fat.
If you are worried about how you are built then the phrase "Built like a brick sh-house" comes to mind... Aim for that by lifting weights.
Every case have seen like yours is based on a woman being waif thin but still high in body fat {relatively-speaking} while thinking they have adequate muscle mass.0 -
Thank you for the confirmation and congratulations on your achievements.It's hard to maintain a very low body fat percentage, though, so if I put on a few pounds, of course it goes to my hips and thighs. If I stay very strict then my lower half is proportionate to my top half.
I appreciate how hard and discouraging it can be at times.
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Trying a slight deficit to lose fat in your middle might not be a bad idea, you still have about 15 pounds of wiggle room before you'd technically be considered "underweight." When I still had some fat I wanted to lose around my hips/thighs but my upper body was getting too gaunt looking for my liking I cut down to a little thinner than I liked and then bulked with an emphasis on upper body. When I did a slow cut at the end I definitely noticed a reduction in body fat on my hip/thigh areas but didn't look gaunt up top anymore because of the upper body muscle mass I added.
Also, i'm 17% body fat and i'd consider myself pear shaped. Wide hips + zero boobs = pear even when your body fat is low-ish.1 -
I'm with @cqbkaju on this one.
What I'm reading says you actually are a beginner lifter and could really improve with dialing that in and really paying attention to the program and progressive overload. Have a look here to see where you're at. Maybe you really are Intermediate, but I'm guessing not and that means you could seriously gain.
http://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/female/lb
I think in particular you could benefit from a program that has Barbell Overhead Press in it a couple times per week and that you up your 1RM over the next few months.
What I would have liked to see in your previous posts was...
I follow a bikini lifting program with upper/lower full body (or something) and my squat has gone from XX to XX+, my OHP has gone from XX to XX+, my bench has gone from XX to XX+, and my deadlift has gone from XX to XX+
Nail this and problem solved IMO.
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If you consider yourself to be "pear shaped" just because you have a smaller bust size then we are at an impasse.Keladelphia wrote: »Also, i'm 17% body fat and i'd consider myself pear shaped. Wide hips + zero boobs = pear even when your body fat is low-ish.
You and I must have distinctly different ideas of what a pear shaped woman looks like.
Based on your profile picture, you are in the "brick sh-house" category I mentioned.
I think most men would agree with me. Your body image and my impression of it are not even close.
I guess if your pictures are of you at around 17% body fat and that is now what is meant by "pear shaped" then I am wrong.
I will concede the point and shut up now.0 -
If you consider yourself to be "pear shaped" just because you have a smaller bust size then we are at an impasse.Keladelphia wrote: »Also, i'm 17% body fat and i'd consider myself pear shaped. Wide hips + zero boobs = pear even when your body fat is low-ish.
You and I have distinctly different ideas of what a pear shaped woman looks like and based on your picture, you are in the "brick sh-house" category I mentioned.
I think most men would agree with me.
I guess if your pictures are of you at around 17% body fat and that is what is meant by "pear shaped" then I am wrong.
I mean I completely agree with you that that a persons body shape can be dramatically changed when body composition is dramatically changed. I was just kind of making the point that genetic "body shape" (width of hips, rib circumference etc) and "body composition" are somewhat separate. Also, i'll happily take that "brick Sh-house" comment instead of pear hahaha12 -
I will just say that I am at a smaller size in the 160s weight range than I was around 140.I do have decent muscle in my calves and thighs,and again still what they would call a pear shape. my measurements are 34-27-37. my waist size in my teens was 25 inches. Im now 27 inches. I lift so yeah it has changed how my body "looks" but I still store fat in the same places and not much has changed except that Im a smaller version at a higher weight.1
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Yes, no disagreement there, Ms. Tracey.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »I still store fat in the same places and not much has changed except that Im a smaller version at a higher weight.
Solution? Cut the amount of fat you are storing by a sufficient amount and the location of storage will not matter much.
It is not simple or easy, but it can be done, has been done and shall be done again.
That is all I am saying.
If your assertion is that you are "pear shaped" or some such simply based on something like the width of your hips, regardless of how much body fat or muscle mass you have then we will have to agree to disagree.
I would assert that "pear shaped" may be a matter of aesthetics and appearance.
Therefore...
Since I am I guy and you are a woman, how attractive and sexy "I" (i.e. your Significant Other, other hetro guys, other women who are attracted to their own gender, etc.) think you are is more important in this instance than your opinion of how you feel you look or your self-image / body image.
"I" am a better, more impartial judge of "your" aesthetics, just like "you" are the better judge of "mine."
So "I" am sticking with my evaluation of what a "pear shaped woman" looks like over yours.
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Yes, no disagreement there, Ms. Tracey.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »I still store fat in the same places and not much has changed except that Im a smaller version at a higher weight.
Solution? Cut the amount of fat you are storing by a sufficient amount and the location of storage will not matter much.
It is not simple or easy, but it can be done, has been done and shall be done again.
That is all I am saying.
If your assertion is that you are "pear shaped" or some such simply based on something like the width of your hips, regardless of how much body fat or muscle mass you have then we will have to agree to disagree.
I would assert that "pear shaped" may be a matter of aesthetics and appearance.
Therefore...
Since I am I guy and you are a woman, how attractive and sexy "I" (i.e. your Significant Other, other hetro guys, other women who are attracted to their own gender, etc.) think you are is more important in this instance than your opinion of how you feel you look or your self-image / body image.
"I" am a better, more impartial judge of "your" aesthetics.
So "I" am sticking with my definition of "pear shaped" over yours.
and your opinion of me or other women is not going to be the same as other mens/womens opinions. but then again for me I dont care what others think.I have things Im working on to improve and Im doing it for me and me only. my health has improved and Im in better shape to me that is the most important thing.1 -
OP - What are your measurements? (I ask because in your profile pic you don't appear to be wide at your waist.)
Figure types aren't based on fat, they're based on measurement differences. An hourglass figure is usually defined as having similar bust and hip measurements and a waist measurement which is at least 10" smaller than bust/hips. So Marilyn Monroe is usually referred to as an example at 37-23-36. If the bust/hips are similar and the waist is <9" smaller, that's considered straight. Pear shape just means that your hip measurement is larger than your bust. Apple is the opposite. So you can potentially be any figure type at any fat %.
I was an hourglass when I was overweight/obese and stayed one until I got to my goal weight. I stayed there for awhile (36-26-36) and have been mostly maintaining (recomp). Every time I lose an inch or two, I become more pear as my hips are staying the same (34-25-36).5 -
That is a fallacy that is propagated by people who are adverse to hard work or prefer to make excuses.One thing to remember is that you don't have much control over your body shape - if you're an Apple shape, you're not going to change into an Hourglass shape with exercise or weight loss.
Show me a woman at 15% or 20% body fat and "Apple" shaped and then we will talk.
Until then, I call BS.
Please check out my profile pics for evidence. In those pics I tested at 15-16% BF by Dexa and Bod Pod. I look like my BF% is higher due to no boobage. My fat is stored in the 1ft area below my belly button and the top of my thighs. I seem to be pulling this measurement out quite a lot recently, but android/gynoid fat difference was 8.5%/25%. If having 8.5% BF on your upper half and 25% BF on your lower is not the definition of pear, I'm not sure what is.
Edit - my bad....I just read you wanted evidence of an 'Apple'. Wrong body type for that comparison. But hopefully it helps you realize that body types don't change with low levels of BF. I guess it goes more with this quote.I'm not willing to debate it with you now, sorry.
Like I said, if you get down to around 18% and still feel like you are fruit shaped then we can discuss it then.
"about 24% fat" is a long way from being hydrostatically weighed and demonstrated to be within 15% to 20% body fat.
None of the "pear shaped" women I have ever known or coached who did the work to get into the 18% range looked remotely apple or pear shaped in the end. Their bust sizes did shrink a bit, but that is to be expected.
Wider hips or a thigh gap due to bone shape or density does not affect your body composition.
Furthermore, it rarely affects your overall appearance as dramatically as some people want to think, unless you are competing on a stage.
Put muscle on those thighs and few people would ever noticed the "gap".
It is hard work, but it can be done.
Weight distribution excuses go out the window when you actually drop the additional 10lbs or 15lbs of fat you didn't realize you were carrying or "distributing".
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WickedPineapple wrote: »OP - What are your measurements? (I ask because in your profile pic you don't appear to be wide at your waist.)
Figure types aren't based on fat, they're based on measurement differences. An hourglass figure is usually defined as having similar bust and hip measurements and a waist measurement which is at least 10" smaller than bust/hips. So Marilyn Monroe is usually referred to as an example at 37-23-36. If the bust/hips are similar and the waist is <9" smaller, that's considered straight. Pear shape just means that your hip measurement is larger than your bust. Apple is the opposite. So you can potentially be any figure type at any fat %.
I was an hourglass when I was overweight/obese and stayed one until I got to my goal weight. I stayed there for awhile (36-26-36) and have been mostly maintaining (recomp). Every time I lose an inch or two, I become more pear as my hips are staying the same (34-25-36).
This is absolutely correct. The body shapes are based on bust waist hip ratios. Yes an apple shape can lose tons of body fat and maybe get a more defined waist but that doesn't magically make them a categorized hourglass figure.
When I am obese I have a 13" difference between bust to waist, and 12" between waist to hip. My waist and stomach may still be very large but the ratio is still there. When I am at normal/healthy weight I'm more around 12" bust to waist and 11" hips to waist. My ratios stay almost exactly the same and I NEVER drop below a 10" difference. I am an hourglass figure. Oh I'm also a top heavy hourglass as my bust is always larger than my hips. Just adding that note to show contrast to the quoted post which features a bottom heavy hourglass figure with hips that trend larger than bust when weight is lost.
Yes hard work and dedication can change the look of your body but when people say that you can't change your foundation shape they usually aren't talking about a curve here and a smoothing out there. They are talking about not changing really defined structural ratios and build.
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@mom23mangos This is the 2nd time i've seen you direct posters to your profile pics, but your profile is set to private. I really want to check out your pics so i can get a better understanding of what you're talking about. I'm honestly not creeping lol
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Christine_72 wrote: »@mom23mangos This is the 2nd time i've seen you direct posters to your profile pics, but your profile is set to private. I really want to check out your pics so i can get a better understanding of what you're talking about. I'm honestly not creeping lol
Doh!! I'm so embarrassed @Christine_72! I totally didn't realize. I think I fixed it. Thanks for letting me know.2 -
OP: We are all our own worst critics and no one is ever satisfied with the way they look. Remember that most celebs are underweight and at high risk for eating disorders. If you have achieved a good fitness level, have a good diet, healthy habits, and can do everything you want, then life is good!
@cqbkaju may be right that if you drop your body fat %, your body will look different (no guarantees that it will look better, IMHO). Is this where you want to focus your energy?2 -
This is where you set body composition goals and eat and train with specificity. At some point "watching what you eat" and "lifting weights" just isn't going to give you the look you want.
Need to lose a little fat? Get logging. Watch your protein. Make sure your program has a progressive overload, with a decent amount of volume but not so much that a deficit is difficult.
If you're already very slim, maybe time for a bulk or a recomp with a new program.2 -
@CharlieBeansmomTracey
I think I understand what you are saying but by definition...
If you lose enough fat (thus shrinking your belly and body fat to say, 18%), have wider "birthing" hips, and ANY breastesess at all (with or without "wide shoulders"), wouldn't that result in more of an "hourglass" than an "Apple" shape?
Even with no bewbies, an "Apple" or "Pear" shape is not in the cards.
Sorry, but most of that is adipose tissue, not "hip bone"...
At least "Pics or it didn't happen." You may still not convince me, but we can debate it.
I have known girls/women who were very, very thin who were still basically straight up and down from shoulders to hips with no indent at the waist. They were dancers and had very low bodyfat. Some women are just not hourglass shaped at any weight.5 -
Op, have you progressed on your lifts? Are you getting stronger and lifting heavier weights? Are you eating in a deficit? These are key to getting better body composition.1
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Perhaps let go of your media-driven ideal of a perfect body. We don't all have the same body type. We don't all have the money to pursue surgical interventions as we age. You are active, at your ideal weight and, I'm assuming, you eat a healthy diet. If not, that would be something to focus on, rather than how you look in the mirror. Your good health is going to serve you well in the coming years and is ultimately much more important than a tiny waist!
I say all this to you because I say it to myself (except I'm older and already suffer the consequences of not taking care of myself in my 30's and 40's). I'm one of those women that never had and never will have an hourglass figure. I found myself being more critical of my body after I lost weight than before. I have to consciously shut down the negative self-talk on a regular basis. Give yourself a break!4
This discussion has been closed.
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