Recomp or continue losing?

Froggyh

I'm a 27-year-old woman, 5'5" and 135lb, down from 155lb last December. This puts me in the 'healthy weight' category, but I'm still definitely fluffier around the middle than I'd like to be. My goal weight is set at 120lb, but I arrived at that based solely on the fact that I was at that weight in my late teens and early twenties. At that time I was exercising moderately (karate 3 times a week) and not restricting my eating (I actually eat a lot healthier now than I did then), so it seemed an attainable goal. However, I was also pretty weak then (I swear I was the only person in the karate club who couldn't do a proper push up!), so I don't have my heart set on that specific number on the scale so much as I want to fit into my old clothes.

After a five-year hiatus, I started back at karate in February. In the first month or two, I noticed substantial strength gains, no doubt because my body was wondering what fresh h*** I was putting it through. Since about April, though, that's stalled. I know I need to add more targeted weight training to my workout routine, but I'm wondering if I can see the strength gains I'm looking for while eating at a deficit. I don't care much about increasing muscle mass specifically, as my goal is strength; I'll take or leave increased mass insofar as it helps me reach that goal.

I started reading around MFP looking for info on how to help me build more strength, and stumbled upon recomposition (especially this thread: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat/p1). I've seen the term mentioned a few times before, and always thought 'Oh, that's something to do when I get to 120', but the OP in the thread I linked makes specific reference to being at 'a decent weight for your height', which I am, so I'm beginning to wonder if that might help me see the strength gains I'm looking for faster than strength training at a deficit, while still losing fat.

tl;dr: I want to lose more fat and gain more strength, and I'm not sure if I should add strength training while continuing to eat at a deficit, or to eat at maintenance while adding in strength training.

Thanks!

Seffell

My stats are a bit different (5'7, 137lbs, 36yo down from 166lbs, 18 months ago) but I have similar issue (only it is my legs and bum that are 'fluffy').

I have decided to keep losing (I used to weigh around 130lbs and under up until 3 years ago) and include some strength training now. When I get to around 125lbs I think I want to start a number of slow bulk-cut cycles so that I end up around 130 after several years and with much less fat than now. I hope to achieve my ambitious desired looks by 2020

It is a long plan but sadly I have a very high fat percentage even at this bmi and some health issues which prevent me from working out at a maximum rate. Fingers crossed.

ETA: The reason I'm going for bulk-cut cycles is that I feel very, very unwell when I workout during a deficit even if it is small (around 200cal for me).

bbell1985

I'm 5'4" and the first time I decided to stop losing and recomp I was about 133 lbs. I had also been training with a progressive overload for at least a year and had a handle of what proper training and nutrition looked like. This not only set me up as a pretty lean 133 pounds, I also had a little experience under my belt when it came to training.

It seems like either option would work fine for you. I do suggest that if you are a bit fluffy and unhappy with that, it might be wise to cut a little more. The results of recomp are slow. You have to be ready to not see the scale move, and track changes on a monthly basis...measurements, how things look in the mirror. I mean, at one point my measurements stayed the same-the scale stayed the same-the only thing I could see were more veins lol.

You should be prepared with a proper training program either way. When I decided to recomp at 133 I looked like the pic on the bottom right and felt comfortable enough to stop losing.

middlehaitch

Maybe a happy balance would be to eat at a small deficit (250 cals a day) and add in strength training.

Recomp is a slow process, it can take years. You could do it for 6 months at maintenance and then assess if you still want to lose some weight by going back into a small deficit.

Strength training is beneficial no matter if you are losing, gaining, or maintaining, so it is worth starting now.

Keeping your protein around the 1g per lbs of lbm will help with muscle retention.

Here is the lifting programmes thread.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

Cheers, h.

Seffell

@bbell1985 I'm not the OP but thanks for the post and pics. Very helpful and inspiring! You look great too!

How long did it take you to get from bottom left to bottom right?

mmapags

bbell, you lookin' smokin'!! Nice job.

Op, progressive weight training will give you the body you want. You have a healthy attitude. Forget the number on the scale at this point and get strong and prosper. You will like what you get. See results above.....

bbell1985

gebeziseva wrote: »

@bbell1985 I'm not the OP but thanks for the post and pics. Very helpful and inspiring! You look great too!

How long did it take you to get from bottom left to bottom right?

Sorry the bottom two are out of order. First came the bottom right. I tried a recomp and got fed up so decided to lean out and bulk. It took me about 3 months to go from bottom right to bottom left , I think. Ugh seems so long ago now.

Froggyh

Thanks for the replies!

@bbell1985 wow, you look amazing! When you say you were training with progressive overload for a year before beginning recomp, I assume that means you were building strength while eating at a deficit? That probably sounds like a really daft question, but I know you don't really build muscle while eating at a deficit (beyond newbie gains).

@middlehaitch Thanks for the link to the strength training thread! I've heard of Starting Strength and StrongLifts, but there are a lot of others you've posted that are new to me. Time to start doing research You mention eating 1g of protein per 1lb lean body mass; is there a way to estimate what my lean body mass is, beyond something like hydrostatic weighing?

After reading the replies in this thread, I think what I'll try is to add in strength training while continuing to eat at a deficit (I'm currently doing a deficit of around 250 calories already, so I don't imagine I'll reduce that further) for six months or so and see how it goes. If I'm getting the strength gains I want, and seeing the fat reduction I want, then I'll keep it up until I'm around 120 before moving on to recomp if I still want more muscle/less fat. If I'm not seeing the strength gains then I'll try eating at maintenance for six months or so.

bbell1985

Froggyh wrote: »

Thanks for the replies!

@bbell1985 wow, you look amazing! When you say you were training with progressive overload for a year before beginning recomp, I assume that means you were building strength while eating at a deficit? That probably sounds like a really daft question, but I know you don't really build muscle while eating at a deficit (beyond newbie gains).

@middlehaitch Thanks for the link to the strength training thread! I've heard of Starting Strength and StrongLifts, but there are a lot of others you've posted that are new to me. Time to start doing research You mention eating 1g of protein per 1lb lean body mass; is there a way to estimate what my lean body mass is, beyond something like hydrostatic weighing?

After reading the replies in this thread, I think what I'll try is to add in strength training while continuing to eat at a deficit (I'm currently doing a deficit of around 250 calories already, so I don't imagine I'll reduce that further) for six months or so and see how it goes. If I'm getting the strength gains I want, and seeing the fat reduction I want, then I'll keep it up until I'm around 120 before moving on to recomp if I still want more muscle/less fat. If I'm not seeing the strength gains then I'll try eating at maintenance for six months or so.

I think your idea is great. It will be helpful to have a good understanding of how to train when you are ready to recomp.

Progressive overload is being able to, or finding ways to increase weight/volume/intensity over time for strength or hypertrophy.

Froggyh

Thanks for the explanation of progressive overloading, @bbell1985 . I'm reading up on some of the strength training programs linked upthread and they all seem to use progressive overload techniques, so that looks pretty straightforward for me.

bbell1985

Froggyh wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation of progressive overloading, @bbell1985 . I'm reading up on some of the strength training programs linked upthread and they all seem to use progressive overload techniques, so that looks pretty straightforward for me.

Yes, beginners programs will all start with a linear progression, adding weight each workout and/or week. Enjoy that while you can!

cqbkaju

The general rule of thumb is that a woman should first cut to around 20% body fat (or even lower) and then only bulk until around 25% at most.
Once you hit ~ 25% body fat you would cut again.
You would recomp while around 20% body fat or lower unless your training goals indicated otherwise.
How many times you choose to cut & bulk vs recomp depends on your goals.

"Thinner Leaner Stronger" ("TLS") includes a good beginner lifting program as well as useful information on diet, etc.

Yes, you still strength train while on a deficit but it should be on an intelligent, efficient program that focuses on the compound lifts.
These are the "Linear Progression" programs that @bbell1985 mentions.
"Pink dumbbells" will not do it.
StrongLifts5x5 is an often recommended Linear Progression program on MFP (maybe too often) because it is simple and free.
I prefer TLS because it takes the time to teach women what they need to know about things like supplements and nutrition as well as teaching them how to spot BS in the fitness industry.
Just pick a program you like and stick with it for at least 12 weeks before futzing around.

By the way...
Knowing your body fat percentage is far more useful and important that knowing you are in the BMI "healthy weight" category.

Froggyh

@bbell1985 Yeah, I've read that the progression gets slower as you get stronger, so I'll have to make the most of the early progress :P

@cqbkaju Haha, yeah, I'm not even sure why those tiny pink dumbbells exist. Currently I'm deadlifting about 75lb, which I know isn't particularly impressive, but it's a lot for me as I've never been strong - as in, still doing incline push ups on the side of my sofa not-strong (BUT I've progressed from my kitchen counter :P ). I was looking at TLS last night, and I was particularly keen on how it seems to take a lot of time to explain things rather than just giving you a program to follow, so I appreciate your recommendation.

I'm curious why you say to recomp around 20% BF? I thought the point of recomp was to reduce your body fat percentage, and judging by this chart, 20% is already in the 'athletic' category. I would hazard a guess that my end goal is more into the 'fitness' range of 21-24%.

And, yeah, I know body fat percentage is a better metric, but I'm not sure how to measure that as there's nowhere to do hydrostatic weighing around here. Is there another relatively accurate way to do it? I'm wary of bioelectrical impedance scales as I know my fat isn't evenly distributed between upper and lower body, and I think calipers carry a high risk of user error.

cqbkaju

Froggyh wrote: »

@bbell1985 Yeah, I've read that the progression gets slower as you get stronger, so I'll have to make the most of the early progress :P

@cqbkaju Haha, yeah, I'm not even sure why those tiny pink dumbbells exist. Currently I'm deadlifting about 75lb, which I know isn't particularly impressive, but it's a lot for me as I've never been strong - as in, still doing incline push ups on the side of my sofa not-strong (BUT I've progressed from my kitchen counter :P ). I was looking at TLS last night, and I was particularly keen on how it seems to take a lot of time to explain things rather than just giving you a program to follow, so I appreciate your recommendation.

I'm curious why you say to recomp around 20% BF? I thought the point of recomp was to reduce your body fat percentage, and judging by this chart, 20% is already in the 'athletic' category. I would hazard a guess that my end goal is more into the 'fitness' range of 21-24%.

And, yeah, I know body fat percentage is a better metric, but I'm not sure how to measure that as there's nowhere to do hydrostatic weighing around here. Is there another relatively accurate way to do it? I'm wary of bioelectrical impedance scales as I know my fat isn't evenly distributed between upper and lower body, and I think calipers carry a high risk of user error.

Hello.

First, 75 lbs is impressive. Keep it in perspective.
It is more than 70 lbs and probably more than many of your friends lifted all week...

When to recomp can be a matter of opinion, as are a lot of "rules" in fitness.
The reason people in my camp often say to recomp when you are already "low body fat" is pretty straightforward: It is a very slow process.

Cutting is slow enough but recomp can take twice as long (or more) for equivalent results.
When you are already at a low body fat percentage (~20% for women is "low") it is even harder to cut even lower.
Diminishing returns. So women are usually told to just recomp then and not worry about it.
Cutting quickly is "easier" and faster than a recomp to the same percentage.
Cutting to 20% is not dramatically slower than cutting to say 24% but a "recomp" from 24% to 20% could be.

So stay around maintenance calories and recomp whenever you are happy with your look.
If 21% to 24% does it for you, then feel free to recomp then!

Remember how I phrased it?
"You would recomp while around 20% body fat or lower unless your training goals indicated otherwise."

You can buy a cheap set of calipers on Amazon and use them to estimate your body fat.
It will take some practice, you are correct about user error. You just need to be consistent with where and how you use them.
https://www.amazon.com/AccuFitness-AM99-Accu-Measure-Body-Caliper/dp/B000QURRUK

I frequently recommend just using a tape measure at your navel to estimate:
https://www.amazon.com/eBoot-Measure-Sewing-Tailor-Cloth/dp/B01LPRT28W

You can use this table to perform a lookup:
http://vitals.lifehacker.com/how-to-determine-the-number-of-calories-you-should-eat-1693372946

Neither method is remotely perfect or gold-standard accurate but consistency with their use will tell you if you are going in the right direction.

Just keep up the hard work!

Froggyh

cqbkaju wrote: »

First, 75 lbs is impressive. Keep it in perspective.
It is more than 70 lbs and probably more than many of your friends lifted all week...

Yeah, that's true enough! Good way to keep perspective ^_^

When to recomp can be a matter of opinion, as are a lot of "rules" in fitness.
The reason people in my camp often say to recomp when you are already "low body fat" is pretty straightforward: It is a very slow process.

Cutting is slow enough but recomp can take twice as long, or more.
When you are already at a low body fat percentage (~20% for women is "low") it is even harder to cut even lower. Diminishing returns. So women are usually told to recomp then.
Cutting quickly is "easier" and faster than a recomp to the same percentage.
Cutting to 20% is not dramatically slower than cutting to say 24% but a "recomp" from 24% to 20% could be.

So stay around maintenance calories and recomp whenever you are happy with your look.
If 21% to 24% does it for you, then feel free to recomp then!

Remember how I phrased it?
"You would recomp while around 20% body fat or lower unless your training goals indicated otherwise."

Oh, okay, I gotcha now. Thanks for the clarification

You can buy a cheap set of calipers on Amazon and use them to estimate your body fat.
It will take some practice. You just need to be consistent with where and how you use them.
https://www.amazon.com/AccuFitness-AM99-Accu-Measure-Body-Caliper/dp/B000QURRUK

I frequently recommend just using a tape measure at your navel to estimate:
https://www.amazon.com/eBoot-Measure-Sewing-Tailor-Cloth/dp/B01LPRT28W

You can use this table to perform a lookup:
http://vitals.lifehacker.com/how-to-determine-the-number-of-calories-you-should-eat-1693372946

Neither method is remotely perfect or gold-standard accurate but consistency with their use will tell you if you are going in the right direction.

Just keep up the hard work!

Oh, okay. I think I'll try the tape measure method as I already track my basic measurements, so this just adds another one (waist at navel as opposed to waist at narrowest point) to remember to measure to use that lookup table. Thanks!