Reactive eating and set point weight
Options
oat_bran
Posts: 370 Member
Recently I s have stumbled upon a concept that ED specialists refer to as "reactive eating". The idea is that what many people refer to as binging isn't actually true binging in the majority of cases but the body's way to compensate for a big caloric (and macro/micronutrient) deficit.
As someone with a history of eating disorders (bulimia and EDNOS) I am very interested in this concept because I myself struggle a lot with what I have always thoight was just binging and compulsive overeating and messed up hunger cues.
But here's the thing: the way this concept in described (here for example), it seems like it should apply for everyone who have lost or is trying to lose a lot of weight. To sum up the idea, it basically says that our bodies have a certain "set point" weight and when one eats at caloric deficit and loses a considerate amount of weight, even if one is still technically at a "healthy weight", the body will reach a point where it triggers extreme hunger and desire to keep eating way over one's TDEE to compensate for that longterm caloric deficit and try to get back to that set point weight. This is why, according to that theory, people in ED recovery often struggle with extreme hunger long after they reach a healthy weight and then keep gaining more weight.
And I know that "set point weight" is only a theory, but it seems to make sense, at least in my case. Because even though I've never been underweight, I've lost big amounts of weight several times in the past (and gained most of it back). And now even after eating more or less normally for over a year, I struggle to lose even a few pounds. Even when I keep a very small daily deficit (200-500cals max) and eat plenty of fats and protein and fiber, after a several weeks I always end up ravenous to the point where I can't focus on anything else and not only cannot maintain even a tiny deficit and can't stop myself from eating way over my TDEE (by hundreds of calories). And no it doesn't have to be junk food. It can be almonds or oatmeal or whole wheat bread. I just get so hungry that I can't stop eating. It's incredibly frustrating. Maybe my current weight (high end of normal BMI-borderline overweight) is my set point weight? I mean, it makes sense because so many people who lose weight have such a hard time eating at maintenance and feel constantly hungry and can't eat "intuitively" without gaining. It's as if their bodies try to get back to a higher weight.
What do you all thing about this concept? Do you think it's all rubbish or there's some truth to it?
As someone with a history of eating disorders (bulimia and EDNOS) I am very interested in this concept because I myself struggle a lot with what I have always thoight was just binging and compulsive overeating and messed up hunger cues.
But here's the thing: the way this concept in described (here for example), it seems like it should apply for everyone who have lost or is trying to lose a lot of weight. To sum up the idea, it basically says that our bodies have a certain "set point" weight and when one eats at caloric deficit and loses a considerate amount of weight, even if one is still technically at a "healthy weight", the body will reach a point where it triggers extreme hunger and desire to keep eating way over one's TDEE to compensate for that longterm caloric deficit and try to get back to that set point weight. This is why, according to that theory, people in ED recovery often struggle with extreme hunger long after they reach a healthy weight and then keep gaining more weight.
And I know that "set point weight" is only a theory, but it seems to make sense, at least in my case. Because even though I've never been underweight, I've lost big amounts of weight several times in the past (and gained most of it back). And now even after eating more or less normally for over a year, I struggle to lose even a few pounds. Even when I keep a very small daily deficit (200-500cals max) and eat plenty of fats and protein and fiber, after a several weeks I always end up ravenous to the point where I can't focus on anything else and not only cannot maintain even a tiny deficit and can't stop myself from eating way over my TDEE (by hundreds of calories). And no it doesn't have to be junk food. It can be almonds or oatmeal or whole wheat bread. I just get so hungry that I can't stop eating. It's incredibly frustrating. Maybe my current weight (high end of normal BMI-borderline overweight) is my set point weight? I mean, it makes sense because so many people who lose weight have such a hard time eating at maintenance and feel constantly hungry and can't eat "intuitively" without gaining. It's as if their bodies try to get back to a higher weight.
What do you all thing about this concept? Do you think it's all rubbish or there's some truth to it?
0
Replies
-
I've heard set point weight being discussed before and I will admit I don't know anything about it, but I'm always open to reading new info as it becomes available with an open mind. My first question would be what is their suggested fix? And do you have to buy something from them?4
-
What's the difference between a set point and a REALLY long plateau?5
-
I lost maybe about 50 or so pounds a few years ago. Gained 20 lbs back and then keep trying to lose those 20 lbs. Then I keep gaining and losing. Gained up to 36 back. But keep on losing the 20 and then right up it goes. For 2 years keep on losing and gaining the same 20. Is it a set point or just that normal binge eating disorder where the environment or my feelings or habit just keep getting in the way.1
-
All those triggers whether you see a food commercial or at a restaurant with an open menu or that bread basket with the evil butter or your friend/spouse annoying you?0
-
-
I was reading an article while I was waiting for dinner and the fix seems to be get the weight off by calorie reatictjng, while strength training to keep BMR higher as lean tissue is metaboically expensive, then eat at maintenance and maintain this healthy weight, and time. I didn't learn anything new and that doesn't sound like a set point reset that sounds like smart dieting but like I said I don't know much beyond what I read in 10 mins2
-
mrsnattybulking wrote: »I've heard set point weight being discussed before and I will admit I don't know anything about it, but I'm always open to reading new info as it becomes available with an open mind. My first question would be what is their suggested fix? And do you have to buy something from them?
Who's them?? Did did my post? This is a concept mainly developed in reference to eating disorders and the links are provided are from a ED institute. There's no fix. They are just saying don't resist the extreme hunger, that it's notmal and isn't binging but your body's way to restore the caloric deficit and return to it's "set point" and "natural weight".2 -
150poundsofme wrote: »I lost maybe about 50 or so pounds a few years ago. Gained 20 lbs back and then keep trying to lose those 20 lbs. Then I keep gaining and losing. Gained up to 36 back. But keep on losing the 20 and then right up it goes. For 2 years keep on losing and gaining the same 20. Is it a set point or just that normal binge eating disorder where the environment or my feelings or habit just keep getting in the way.
It's been pretty much the same for me. I jeep losing and gaining the same 15-20 pounds.0 -
...And now even after eating more or less normally for over a year, I struggle to lose even a few pounds. Even when I keep a very small daily deficit (200-500cals max) and eat plenty of fats and protein and fiber, after a several weeks I always end up ravenous to the point where I can't focus on anything else and not only cannot maintain even a tiny deficit and can't stop myself from eating way over my TDEE (by hundreds of calories). And no it doesn't have to be junk food. It can be almonds or oatmeal or whole wheat bread. I just get so hungry that I can't stop eating. It's incredibly frustrating. Maybe my current weight (high end of normal BMI-borderline overweight) is my set point weight? I mean, it makes sense because so many people who lose weight have such a hard time eating at maintenance and feel constantly hungry and can't eat "intuitively" without gaining. It's as if their bodies try to get back to a higher weight.
What do you all thing about this concept? Do you think it's all rubbish or there's some truth to it?
What are you doing about exercise and exercise calories? I can't maintain a 250-500 calorie deficit unless I also exercise and eat those calories back. It's just not enough food to satisfy me otherwise.
What’s your frame size? http://www.myfooddiary.com/Resources/frame_size_calculator.asp
I have a large frame and the only time I've had a BMI as low as 24 was after 6 weeks of undereating and overexercising during boot camp. My goal is to get back into my skinny jeans from when I was a full time yoga teacher, which will have me at a Low Overweight BMI, and I'm ok with that.
But if you have a medium or small frame and truly do need to lose more weight, just know that these last few pounds are tough, and will take some time, and that exercise and exercise calories can help quite a bit.0 -
I don't think it's a biological set point, I don't believe there is any evidence of its existence. A psychological one I can absolutely believe exists.
I do believe extended periods of caloric reduction can lead to a biological response of making us feel uncontrollably hungry. Long term caloric restriction messes with hormones etc, not to mention cutting too low can lead to a down regulation of the metabolism in order to keep the body going.
And the getting to maintenance and being unable to maintain it because of hunger, I also think can largely be psychological. But if you're also not physically active, whether through natural incidental movement or more purposeful exercise, then maintaining is going to be harder and there is evidence to support this. Those who are active maintain their weight more easily.4 -
I'm not convinced of the set point idea. You called it "only a theory" but in the scientific sense there's nothing "only" about a theory. Theories are as good as it gets; as close to certain as anything else know. Set point doesn't rise to the exalted level of a theory. It's barely even a hypothesis.
Among other things, a theory must explain something. The fact that so many don't experience this makes it a fairly poor explanation. There are other possible explanations too. Perhaps your calorie deficit is larger than you think, for instance, and your hunger is less about fate over which you have no possible control than it is actual need for nutrients.
I'm not saying that's what's going on. It's just another possible explanation for the same thing.
I wonder if this idea isn't most useful in the ED context to try and defuse some of the emotional issues around bingeing?1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »...And now even after eating more or less normally for over a year, I struggle to lose even a few pounds. Even when I keep a very small daily deficit (200-500cals max) and eat plenty of fats and protein and fiber, after a several weeks I always end up ravenous to the point where I can't focus on anything else and not only cannot maintain even a tiny deficit and can't stop myself from eating way over my TDEE (by hundreds of calories). And no it doesn't have to be junk food. It can be almonds or oatmeal or whole wheat bread. I just get so hungry that I can't stop eating. It's incredibly frustrating. Maybe my current weight (high end of normal BMI-borderline overweight) is my set point weight? I mean, it makes sense because so many people who lose weight have such a hard time eating at maintenance and feel constantly hungry and can't eat "intuitively" without gaining. It's as if their bodies try to get back to a higher weight.
What do you all thing about this concept? Do you think it's all rubbish or there's some truth to it?
What are you doing about exercise and exercise calories? I can't maintain a 250-500 calorie deficit unless I also exercise and eat those calories back. It's just not enough food to satisfy me otherwise.
What’s your frame size? http://www.myfooddiary.com/Resources/frame_size_calculator.asp
I have a large frame and the only time I've had a BMI as low as 24 was after 6 weeks of undereating and overexercising during boot camp. My goal is to get back into my skinny jeans from when I was a full time yoga teacher, which will have me at a Low Overweight BMI, and I'm ok with that.
But if you have a medium or small frame and truly do need to lose more weight, just know that these last few pounds are tough, and will take some time, and that exercise and exercise calories can help quite a bit.
I am very active and exercise several times a week on top of that so when I say 200-500cal deficit means I eat at least 1600cals but often 1700-2000, which basically maintenance calories for many people. And keep in mind that I'm a short female.
And yes, I'm a have a small frame so I look noticeably overweight even while my bmi is technically healthy.
But yes, I realize that losing the last pounds is always harder. I just remember it being much easier eating in a decicit before. I think age might play a role too.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »...And now even after eating more or less normally for over a year, I struggle to lose even a few pounds. Even when I keep a very small daily deficit (200-500cals max) and eat plenty of fats and protein and fiber, after a several weeks I always end up ravenous to the point where I can't focus on anything else and not only cannot maintain even a tiny deficit and can't stop myself from eating way over my TDEE (by hundreds of calories). And no it doesn't have to be junk food. It can be almonds or oatmeal or whole wheat bread. I just get so hungry that I can't stop eating. It's incredibly frustrating. Maybe my current weight (high end of normal BMI-borderline overweight) is my set point weight? I mean, it makes sense because so many people who lose weight have such a hard time eating at maintenance and feel constantly hungry and can't eat "intuitively" without gaining. It's as if their bodies try to get back to a higher weight.
What do you all thing about this concept? Do you think it's all rubbish or there's some truth to it?
What are you doing about exercise and exercise calories? I can't maintain a 250-500 calorie deficit unless I also exercise and eat those calories back. It's just not enough food to satisfy me otherwise.
What’s your frame size? http://www.myfooddiary.com/Resources/frame_size_calculator.asp
I have a large frame and the only time I've had a BMI as low as 24 was after 6 weeks of undereating and overexercising during boot camp. My goal is to get back into my skinny jeans from when I was a full time yoga teacher, which will have me at a Low Overweight BMI, and I'm ok with that.
But if you have a medium or small frame and truly do need to lose more weight, just know that these last few pounds are tough, and will take some time, and that exercise and exercise calories can help quite a bit.
I am very active and exercise several times a week on top of that so when I say 200-500cal deficit means I eat at least 1600cals but often 1700-2000, which basically maintenance calories for many people. And keep in mind that I'm a short female.
And yes, I'm a have a small frame so I look noticeably overweight even while my bmi is technically healthy.
But yes, I realize that losing the last pounds is always harder. I just remember it being much easier eating in a decicit before. I think age might play a role too.
That sounds like you're reactive eating because you're underfeuling.
I'm a short older female (5'1" and almost 55 years old) who would like to lose 10 more pounds. My TDEE, when very active, is as high as 2200 calories some days.
If you're, as you say, down to around 15 or so pounds to go, you shouldn't be exercising a lot and trying to lose any more than half a pound a week. If you're going as low as 1600 some days, you're underfeuling.
What's your TDEE? Don't worry about what maintenance calories are for other people, that doesn't matter. When it comes to weight management, the only metrics that matter are your own.
I tried doing a very aggressive deficit to get the last 5 pounds off (I used to weight 5 pounds less than I do now) and it backfired on me because it did lead to reactive eating, but it wasn't a set point coming into play, it was the fact that I wasn't eating enough to fuel the amount of activity that I was doing. I can comfortably pull off a 250 calorie deficit just fine.
4 -
I don't believe in set points. The hunger only happens when trying to lose weight too fast - it often goes away when eating at maintenance.0
-
I've read/watched a bit about set point in an online nutritional course I was doing. I think we make our own set point which can be at any weight. I have often come back to the same weight (and also struggle to go below a certain weight) but I know that there are habits I have that contribute to coming back to this weight that I havent changed long term. The other thing I 'learnt' in the course was that our bodies will hold into empty fat cells for about 18months before they will dispose of them. The theory being that it takes about this long for it to be sure we wont need them again because it actually takes energy to make them (and the theory is this is why we get cues to eat more to refill them). But in thinking about it, if i maintain my new weight for 18months I have probably actually made permanent changes to my life. But that being said maybe it takes that long for your hormones to have recallibrated (ie. hunger cues etc). The course did say you could change your set point over time with long term changes to lifestyle and eating. I havent been able to maintain 100% of my weight loss for more than 12months so I cant personally speak from experience.
While the course was questionable to be honest the idea of set point has stayed with me. But I believe I can change my natural weight or set point if I make permanent changes to my life. Its probably healthier in the long run to stay 10lbs lighter for good rather than up and down 20lbs in a vicious diet/gorge cycle.1 -
30kgin2017 wrote: »I've read/watched a bit about set point in an online nutritional course I was doing. I think we make our own set point which can be at any weight. I have often come back to the same weight (and also struggle to go below a certain weight) but I know that there are habits I have that contribute to coming back to this weight that I havent changed long term. The other thing I 'learnt' in the course was that our bodies will hold into empty fat cells for about 18months before they will dispose of them. The theory being that it takes about this long for it to be sure we wont need them again because it actually takes energy to make them (and the theory is this is why we get cues to eat more to refill them). But in thinking about it, if i maintain my new weight for 18months I have probably actually made permanent changes to my life. But that being said maybe it takes that long for your hormones to have recallibrated (ie. hunger cues etc). The course did say you could change your set point over time with long term changes to lifestyle and eating. I havent been able to maintain 100% of my weight loss for more than 12months so I cant personally speak from experience.
While the course was questionable to be honest the idea of set point has stayed with me. But I believe I can change my natural weight or set point if I make permanent changes to my life. Its probably healthier in the long run to stay 10lbs lighter for good rather than up and down 20lbs in a vicious diet/gorge cycle.
Some of what you're saying makes a lot of sense to me. I want to believe that if I maintain a certian weight long enough it becomes my set point weight. I hope so because statistically most people who lose weight, gain it all back. And yes, I know that it's probably mostly because they don't change their habits, but I think hunger plays a role, too. A lot of people here complain about feeling constantly hungry and needing to count calories many months or even years eating at maintenance. I want to believe that after a while, eating at maintenance becomes intuitive. Because I can't imagine feeling constantly hungry and weighing my food and logging and obsessing over it my entire life.
However, what's you're saying anout fat cells staying there for 18months after fat loss, while seems to make sense, logically, isn't suppurted by scientific studies, as far as I know. I think it's a variation on the "woosh theory" (I made a post about several weeks ago). A lot of people say they experience a woosh effect, but there's no scientific evidence to support this. Also, as far as I know, the fat cells, once formed, stay in our bodies for the rest of our lives, even in "deflated" state. But correct me if I'm wrong.0 -
30kgin2017 wrote: »I've read/watched a bit about set point in an online nutritional course I was doing. I think we make our own set point which can be at any weight. I have often come back to the same weight (and also struggle to go below a certain weight) but I know that there are habits I have that contribute to coming back to this weight that I havent changed long term. The other thing I 'learnt' in the course was that our bodies will hold into empty fat cells for about 18months before they will dispose of them. The theory being that it takes about this long for it to be sure we wont need them again because it actually takes energy to make them (and the theory is this is why we get cues to eat more to refill them). But in thinking about it, if i maintain my new weight for 18months I have probably actually made permanent changes to my life. But that being said maybe it takes that long for your hormones to have recallibrated (ie. hunger cues etc). The course did say you could change your set point over time with long term changes to lifestyle and eating. I havent been able to maintain 100% of my weight loss for more than 12months so I cant personally speak from experience.
While the course was questionable to be honest the idea of set point has stayed with me. But I believe I can change my natural weight or set point if I make permanent changes to my life. Its probably healthier in the long run to stay 10lbs lighter for good rather than up and down 20lbs in a vicious diet/gorge cycle.
My average TDEE is pretty high also: around 2100-2200. I have sedentary days where it's 1700 and super active days when it's 2700 or more. I have a fitbit HR and use it to track my TDEE and judging by my losses and gains it's accurate. I don't use the standartd MFP method, because my activity level varies to much from day to day. I used to base my intake on the TDEE it reported, so I ate more on more active days and less on less active days. It helped somewhat with my hunger levels, but still sooner or later it caught up with me. Now I try to eat the number of calories every day 1700-1800 hoping my body will adjust to the same intake and I'll feel less hungry.
I realize that 500cal deficit isn't that small for someone who's not overweight. But it doesn't seem like a smaller deficit makes an actual a difference. I lose slower and it takes longer for this extreme hunger to develop, but I do develop it eventually. Except that a smaller deficit means it's so much easier to ruins a two months progress in just a few days of overeating.
0 -
What do I think? Honestly, I haven't experienced the ravenous hunger described by so many people who have lost weight and have gotten close to their healthy weight goal only to relapse and regain. I understand that if it's a feature of our human bodies I should have had those feelings. I haven't. That does not explain my occasional high-calorie days. However, even though I've had numerous high-calorie 'binge' days on this weight loss journey, those are 1-day events that I'm mostly not worried about. For instance, I ate everything in sight June 8. Again on June 26, I ate with reckless abandon. At the morning of June 26, I logged a new low weight for this 17-month long effort at weight loss. That's progress, not failure.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that we can all observe people we've watched grow old who were young and slim and became older and quite overweight. Where is their 'set point'?
I'd also like to point out that I've observed people grow old who stayed mindful of their calorie intake and nutritional needs who stayed slim and trim. Is that really a 'set point'?
Because of the evidence in front of my eyes, I am inclined to think that 'set point' is psycho-babble designed to soothe the frantic moods of paying customers.2 -
I'm not sure about set point theory, I've heard good arguments on either side. I really liked Dr. Linda Bacon's book Health at Every Size.
I recovered from Anorexia/Bulimia and definitely believe reactive eating is a thing. Once I stopped restricting my calorie intake excessively, I stopped binge eating. I did have to take a dieting break for a few years and let my body rest at a BMI of around 25 for a while. Once I fully recovered I was about to get down to a BMI of 22 without bingeing by weight lifting, cycling and eating at a slight deficit. It took a while but I looked way better and probably "thinner" than I ever did at the height of my ED.1 -
I've said this before - but breastfeeding my second kid made me a believer in the idea of set point.
She was a big baby and gained very quickly on no calories except what she got from me.
I lost weight very quickly without any effort. And when I got down to a weight about 15 pounds below my pre-pregnancy weight (about my college weight), it was like the brakes on the weight loss kicked in.
If my weight dropped below that line, I would find myself in front of the fridge, eating meat and cheese and eggs, sometimes having gotten there on automatic pilot. Once my weight was back above that line? Everything was fine, no cravings, no urge to eat all the leftover chicken every time I walked past the kitchen door. It took a few cycles of this to realize that it was a specific weight line that, if crossed, triggered this.
It was honestly very strange, because even when I was pregnant I never felt like I was a thrall of my body and hormones the way I was when my body was trying to fill up that 15-pound lamprey.
0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.9K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 399 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 979 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions