Starting my first bulk -- ADVICE!
BLifts38
Posts: 248 Member
Started my fitness journey 4 years ago almost to the day. In those 4 years, I've eaten at maintenance MAYBE 5 months, but for the most part, I've been in a deficit and I'm exhausted from it. My body needs a major reset. My metabolism needs fixing. I want to build muscle, so I'm starting my first bulk on Monday.
Besides "get comfortable with being uncomfortable", what other advice can you lend? What are some staples in my diet I should have every week?
Besides "get comfortable with being uncomfortable", what other advice can you lend? What are some staples in my diet I should have every week?
1
Replies
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No advice, but in for the answers. I'm starting my first bulk on Monday as well. Good luck!0
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Have you read this sticky?
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10226536/bulking-for-beginners/p1
Otherwise, as a woman, my advice would be to keep the gains more minimal (less than 2lbs per month) so don't go crazy on an eating frenzy.. you don't need that many extra calories, but definitely take advantage and get some yummy foods into your macros if you desire,.. I would try to focus on the positives (the good growth vs the not so good growth), buy lots of stretchy pants... and trust the process... do not be afraid of fat gain, it will come off when you cut, believe me if you fail to gain anything but some water weight and spin your wheels you will be like "OMG did I even bulk?" that is not what you want!5 -
Oh and another thing.. when you start your weight can jump up... more food volume and water weight, try not to panic. You may also look super bloated by the end of the day. Normal so be prepared for that. Take measurements, use a trend weight app, take lots of photos.. this will all help make sure you are gaining at a good pace and not letting your BF% increase too quick.
Good luck!4 -
Have you read this sticky?
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10226536/bulking-for-beginners/p1
Otherwise, as a woman, my advice would be to keep the gains more minimal (less than 2lbs per month) so don't go crazy on an eating frenzy.. you don't need that many extra calories, but definitely take advantage and get some yummy foods into your macros if you desire,.. I would try to focus on the positives (the good growth vs the not so good growth), buy lots of stretchy pants... and trust the process... do not be afraid of fat gain, it will come off when you cut, believe me if you fail to gain anything but some water weight and spin your wheels you will be like "OMG did I even bulk?" that is not what you want!
I'm obviously not a woman but this is solid advice for both genders doing their first bulk. It's not a free pass to go on an eating frenzy, (hint- you'll have to work all that fat off later anyways), but it can be a bit of a shock to intentionally gain some weight with the net positive being to resculpt your body. Scratch some cravings if they fit into your day, enjoy the extra calories and best of luck!4 -
Hmmm, depending on how you want to go about it, you could either enter a high calorie surplus, or a slight one. There are reasons for each. The reason you might consider a slight surplus (say 150-250 cals) is because you might want to limit fat gain (you will gain about 50/50 muscle and fat, no way around it); however, by doing this, you also limit muscle gain. It's a catch 22.
FYI, your metabolism is fine, it's just gotten used to the deficit. It'll sort itself out.
Mike Israetel thinks that coming out of a long calorie surplus is a great time to really jump right into a big surplus and train hard if you really want to maximize muscle gain. If your training is spot on and you are really pushing yourself, your body is in a great place to gain a lot of muscle. It's very insulin sensitive, like it won't be for a long time, so his point is that since it's much easier to lose fat than it is to gain muscle, you should take advantage of your body's sensitivity and go hard for the first month at a healthy calorie surplus, i.e. don't ease into it. Now of course this has obvious drawbacks like more fat gain and potential binge eating. Definitely something to consider.
You will need approximately 0.6-0.8g protein/lb bodyweight to synthesize muscle, 2 g carbs per lb bodyweight for athletes. 20-35% calories from fat. You don't need any protein shakes or anything else special unless you want the convenience.
You'll need a good structured lifting program, can we assume you have one because of you're profile pic?0 -
Have you read this sticky?
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10226536/bulking-for-beginners/p1
Otherwise, as a woman, my advice would be to keep the gains more minimal (less than 2lbs per month) so don't go crazy on an eating frenzy.. you don't need that many extra calories, but definitely take advantage and get some yummy foods into your macros if you desire,.. I would try to focus on the positives (the good growth vs the not so good growth), buy lots of stretchy pants... and trust the process... do not be afraid of fat gain, it will come off when you cut, believe me if you fail to gain anything but some water weight and spin your wheels you will be like "OMG did I even bulk?" that is not what you want!
I'm obviously not a woman but this is solid advice for both genders doing their first bulk. It's not a free pass to go on an eating frenzy, (hint- you'll have to work all that fat off later anyways), but it can be a bit of a shock to intentionally gain some weight with the net positive being to resculpt your body. Scratch some cravings if they fit into your day, enjoy the extra calories and best of luck!
You can send me my 19.99 any time lol jk
Op - what is your current lifting regimen?0 -
Hmmm, depending on how you want to go about it, you could either enter a high calorie surplus, or a slight one. There are reasons for each. The reason you might consider a slight surplus (say 150-250 cals) is because you might want to limit fat gain (you will gain about 50/50 muscle and fat, no way around it); however, by doing this, you also limit muscle gain. It's a catch 22.
FYI, your metabolism is fine, it's just gotten used to the deficit. It'll sort itself out.
Mike Israetel thinks that coming out of a long calorie surplus is a great time to really jump right into a big surplus and train hard if you really want to maximize muscle gain. If your training is spot on and you are really pushing yourself, your body is in a great place to gain a lot of muscle. It's very insulin sensitive, like it won't be for a long time, so his point is that since it's much easier to lose fat than it is to gain muscle, you should take advantage of your body's sensitivity and go hard for the first month at a healthy calorie surplus, i.e. don't ease into it. Now of course this has obvious drawbacks like more fat gain and potential binge eating. Definitely something to consider.
You will need approximately 0.6-0.8g protein/lb bodyweight to synthesize muscle, 2 g carbs per lb bodyweight for athletes. 20-35% calories from fat. You don't need any protein shakes or anything else special unless you want the convenience.
You'll need a good structured lifting program, can we assume you have one because of you're profile pic?
I have read for women jumping into a higher surplus over 250 cals or 0.5lb per week is not going to be optimal to keep fat gains down. A female ratio of muscle vs fat gained is typically less than males. Men can go higher at least to 1lb per week or 500 cal surplus. Was Mike referring to just men or women as well?1 -
Pretty good bet that Sardelsa read that on Lyle McDonald's website. Relevant article is: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
Other relevant article on eating at maintenance first before diving into a bulk post-cut (or vice versa): http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/transition-phase-between-dieting-gaining.html/
And finally, as far as what to eat, here is psuLemon's writeup on bulking foods: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10326769/are-you-a-hard-gainer-please-read/p13 -
Don't do what I did...gained 14 lbs in like 5 months and then never successfully cut (that was over a year ago)
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Take it slow.
No need to put on a ton of weight (unless you want to). For most people in general, 8-10 pounds of muscle can COMPLETELY change your physique. You don't wanna go on and put on 30 pounds over the next 8 months and get stronger and put on 10 pounds of muscle, and then have to cut back down and lose the 20 pounds of fat, and end up losing 4-6 pounds of muscle along the way,
Happens all the time, just take it slow and realize that even for young men, gaining 2lbs of muscle of month is only really possible in the first few months of training and then continually slows down.
Just be patient.0 -
@edickson76 yep that is exactly where I read it! Great info there 0
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Hmmm, depending on how you want to go about it, you could either enter a high calorie surplus, or a slight one. There are reasons for each. The reason you might consider a slight surplus (say 150-250 cals) is because you might want to limit fat gain (you will gain about 50/50 muscle and fat, no way around it); however, by doing this, you also limit muscle gain. It's a catch 22.
FYI, your metabolism is fine, it's just gotten used to the deficit. It'll sort itself out.
Mike Israetel thinks that coming out of a long calorie surplus is a great time to really jump right into a big surplus and train hard if you really want to maximize muscle gain. If your training is spot on and you are really pushing yourself, your body is in a great place to gain a lot of muscle. It's very insulin sensitive, like it won't be for a long time, so his point is that since it's much easier to lose fat than it is to gain muscle, you should take advantage of your body's sensitivity and go hard for the first month at a healthy calorie surplus, i.e. don't ease into it. Now of course this has obvious drawbacks like more fat gain and potential binge eating. Definitely something to consider.
You will need approximately 0.6-0.8g protein/lb bodyweight to synthesize muscle, 2 g carbs per lb bodyweight for athletes. 20-35% calories from fat. You don't need any protein shakes or anything else special unless you want the convenience.
You'll need a good structured lifting program, can we assume you have one because of you're profile pic?
I have read for women jumping into a higher surplus over 250 cals or 0.5lb per week is not going to be optimal to keep fat gains down. A female ratio of muscle vs fat gained is typically less than males. Men can go higher at least to 1lb per week or 500 cal surplus. Was Mike referring to just men or women as well?
You are quite right, that's possibly only applying to men, but I'm not sure why it wouldn't apply since the basis is the insulin response, even though it won't be as pronounced as in men. Could be something to that though.0 -
-Take it slow!!
-Don't chase a scale weight.
-if you go off track, get back on it asap
- plan a 4 week mini cut every 4-6 months.
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All of the above advice is spot on. The only thing I can add is to pre log your diary if you are logging your foods which will save times where its 9pm in the evening, you have a million calories left to eat and you are worried about to get them all in.0
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I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.3
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TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.1 -
trigden1991 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.
I believe that you can jump into a surplus immediately granted you know you are eating at the surplus you are intending to eat at.
If anything going straight into a surplus will help with muscle gain in the first few weeks as you are the most insulin sensitive. Why would going into a 250 calorie surplus after being in a deficit cause more fat gain than being at maintenance and then going into a 250 calorie surplus?0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.
I believe that you can jump into a surplus immediately granted you know you are eating at the surplus you are intending to eat at.
If anything going straight into a surplus will help with muscle gain in the first few weeks as you are the most insulin sensitive. Why would going into a 250 calorie surplus after being in a deficit cause more fat gain than being at maintenance and then going into a 250 calorie surplus?
Both of these are true and either maintenance or surplus right after a deficit are both ok as long as they meet your goals. If your main goal is to gain as much muscle as possible (maybe you're already at the top of your potential) and you can, or decide, to be ok with the additional fat then by all means jump into a surplus right away. You'll gain maximum muscle and fat as well, due to the insulin sensitivity, since insulin builds both muscle and fat. If there is a period of time where you are more insulin-sensitive, it makes some sense to eat and train a lot to build maximum muscle, while acknowledging you are also gaining a lot of fat.
Maybe you're not cool with the additional fat gain, then by all means, do maintenance, get your insulin sensitivity to normalish, then bulk. Less fat gain, also less muscle gain.0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.
I believe that you can jump into a surplus immediately granted you know you are eating at the surplus you are intending to eat at.
If anything going straight into a surplus will help with muscle gain in the first few weeks as you are the most insulin sensitive. Why would going into a 250 calorie surplus after being in a deficit cause more fat gain than being at maintenance and then going into a 250 calorie surplus?
Both of these are true and either maintenance or surplus right after a deficit are both ok as long as they meet your goals. If your main goal is to gain as much muscle as possible (maybe you're already at the top of your potential) and you can, or decide, to be ok with the additional fat then by all means jump into a surplus right away. You'll gain maximum muscle and fat as well, due to the insulin sensitivity, since insulin builds both muscle and fat. If there is a period of time where you are more insulin-sensitive, it makes some sense to eat and train a lot to build maximum muscle, while acknowledging you are also gaining a lot of fat.
Maybe you're not cool with the additional fat gain, then by all means, do maintenance, get your insulin sensitivity to normalish, then bulk. Less fat gain, also less muscle gain.
Well insulin sensitivity has a positive relationship with nutrient partitioning which would allow for larger increase in muscle mass relative to fat mass.
You most definetly will not add ANY additional fat going from a deficit to a surplus, compared to going from maintenance to that same surplus. It is possible though that you will add more muscle and less fat going from a deficit to a surplus, compared to going from maintenance to the same surplus. Because of the insulin sensitivity and in turn affecting nutrient partitioning.0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.
I believe that you can jump into a surplus immediately granted you know you are eating at the surplus you are intending to eat at.
If anything going straight into a surplus will help with muscle gain in the first few weeks as you are the most insulin sensitive. Why would going into a 250 calorie surplus after being in a deficit cause more fat gain than being at maintenance and then going into a 250 calorie surplus?
The important bit is knowing where maintenance is! Many people forget about metabolic adaptations and that their maintenance will be lower than they predict.
Lyle McDonald, Layne Norton and many natural pro athletes all recommend hovering around maintenance before moving to a surplus.0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.
I believe that you can jump into a surplus immediately granted you know you are eating at the surplus you are intending to eat at.
If anything going straight into a surplus will help with muscle gain in the first few weeks as you are the most insulin sensitive. Why would going into a 250 calorie surplus after being in a deficit cause more fat gain than being at maintenance and then going into a 250 calorie surplus?
Both of these are true and either maintenance or surplus right after a deficit are both ok as long as they meet your goals. If your main goal is to gain as much muscle as possible (maybe you're already at the top of your potential) and you can, or decide, to be ok with the additional fat then by all means jump into a surplus right away. You'll gain maximum muscle and fat as well, due to the insulin sensitivity, since insulin builds both muscle and fat. If there is a period of time where you are more insulin-sensitive, it makes some sense to eat and train a lot to build maximum muscle, while acknowledging you are also gaining a lot of fat.
Maybe you're not cool with the additional fat gain, then by all means, do maintenance, get your insulin sensitivity to normalish, then bulk. Less fat gain, also less muscle gain.
Well insulin sensitivity has a positive relationship with nutrient partitioning which would allow for larger increase in muscle mass relative to fat mass.
You most definetly will not add ANY additional fat going from a deficit to a surplus, compared to going from maintenance to that same surplus. It is possible though that you will add more muscle and less fat going from a deficit to a surplus, compared to going from maintenance to the same surplus. Because of the insulin sensitivity and in turn affecting nutrient partitioning.
This is all provided you know your bulking calories. I would recommend starting with maintenance to figure out what your TDEE is before you jump into a high surplus. For men maybe not so much as issue, but for women we have a small gap of cal intake (only 150-250cals per day) so that can easily be blown out of proportion if you are not careful.
Again I have not seen studies of women benefiting from jumping into higher surpluses from the beginning (but if you have them I would love to read!) .. besides I think especially for someone bulking for the first time jumping into heavy duty weight gain can be overwhelming and possibly discouraging, in particular for women who have lower testosterone and rates of muscle gain.1 -
trigden1991 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.
I believe that you can jump into a surplus immediately granted you know you are eating at the surplus you are intending to eat at.
If anything going straight into a surplus will help with muscle gain in the first few weeks as you are the most insulin sensitive. Why would going into a 250 calorie surplus after being in a deficit cause more fat gain than being at maintenance and then going into a 250 calorie surplus?
The important bit is knowing where maintenance is! Many people forget about metabolic adaptations and that their maintenance will be lower than they predict.
Lyle McDonald, Layne Norton and many natural pro athletes all recommend hovering around maintenance before moving to a surplus.
Yeah for sure, and maintenance will have most likely dropped after cutting, I agree.
I just believe going into a slight surplus directly after a cutting phase to take advantage of the nutrient partitioning benefits.0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.
I believe that you can jump into a surplus immediately granted you know you are eating at the surplus you are intending to eat at.
If anything going straight into a surplus will help with muscle gain in the first few weeks as you are the most insulin sensitive. Why would going into a 250 calorie surplus after being in a deficit cause more fat gain than being at maintenance and then going into a 250 calorie surplus?
Both of these are true and either maintenance or surplus right after a deficit are both ok as long as they meet your goals. If your main goal is to gain as much muscle as possible (maybe you're already at the top of your potential) and you can, or decide, to be ok with the additional fat then by all means jump into a surplus right away. You'll gain maximum muscle and fat as well, due to the insulin sensitivity, since insulin builds both muscle and fat. If there is a period of time where you are more insulin-sensitive, it makes some sense to eat and train a lot to build maximum muscle, while acknowledging you are also gaining a lot of fat.
Maybe you're not cool with the additional fat gain, then by all means, do maintenance, get your insulin sensitivity to normalish, then bulk. Less fat gain, also less muscle gain.
Well insulin sensitivity has a positive relationship with nutrient partitioning which would allow for larger increase in muscle mass relative to fat mass.
You most definetly will not add ANY additional fat going from a deficit to a surplus, compared to going from maintenance to that same surplus. It is possible though that you will add more muscle and less fat going from a deficit to a surplus, compared to going from maintenance to the same surplus. Because of the insulin sensitivity and in turn affecting nutrient partitioning.
This is all provided you know your bulking calories. I would recommend starting with maintenance to figure out what your TDEE is before you jump into a high surplus. For men maybe not so much as issue, but for women we have a small gap of cal intake (only 150-250cals per day) so that can easily be blown out of proportion if you are not careful.
Again I have not seen studies of women benefiting from jumping into higher surpluses from the beginning (but if you have them I would love to read!) .. besides I think especially for someone bulking for the first time jumping into heavy duty weight gain can be overwhelming and possibly discouraging, in particular for women who have lower testosterone and rates of muscle gain.
Just to be clear, I am not advocating a huge calorie surplus ever for bulking (unless you are intending on putting on fat for whatever reason).
I wasn't saying to jump into a higher surplus, just a surplus in general, between 200 and 300 calories.
I feel like it's pretty simple to figure out your maintenance if you have been consistently following a cutting diet.....0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I would spend some time at maintenance first- to make sure you know what that number is if you have been cutting for a very long time.
This is crucial. Jumping straight into a surplus after prolonged periods of dieting is a recipe for fat gain.
I believe that you can jump into a surplus immediately granted you know you are eating at the surplus you are intending to eat at.
If anything going straight into a surplus will help with muscle gain in the first few weeks as you are the most insulin sensitive. Why would going into a 250 calorie surplus after being in a deficit cause more fat gain than being at maintenance and then going into a 250 calorie surplus?
Both of these are true and either maintenance or surplus right after a deficit are both ok as long as they meet your goals. If your main goal is to gain as much muscle as possible (maybe you're already at the top of your potential) and you can, or decide, to be ok with the additional fat then by all means jump into a surplus right away. You'll gain maximum muscle and fat as well, due to the insulin sensitivity, since insulin builds both muscle and fat. If there is a period of time where you are more insulin-sensitive, it makes some sense to eat and train a lot to build maximum muscle, while acknowledging you are also gaining a lot of fat.
Maybe you're not cool with the additional fat gain, then by all means, do maintenance, get your insulin sensitivity to normalish, then bulk. Less fat gain, also less muscle gain.
Well insulin sensitivity has a positive relationship with nutrient partitioning which would allow for larger increase in muscle mass relative to fat mass.
You most definetly will not add ANY additional fat going from a deficit to a surplus, compared to going from maintenance to that same surplus. It is possible though that you will add more muscle and less fat going from a deficit to a surplus, compared to going from maintenance to the same surplus. Because of the insulin sensitivity and in turn affecting nutrient partitioning.
This is all provided you know your bulking calories. I would recommend starting with maintenance to figure out what your TDEE is before you jump into a high surplus. For men maybe not so much as issue, but for women we have a small gap of cal intake (only 150-250cals per day) so that can easily be blown out of proportion if you are not careful.
Again I have not seen studies of women benefiting from jumping into higher surpluses from the beginning (but if you have them I would love to read!) .. besides I think especially for someone bulking for the first time jumping into heavy duty weight gain can be overwhelming and possibly discouraging, in particular for women who have lower testosterone and rates of muscle gain.
Just to be clear, I am not advocating a huge calorie surplus ever for bulking (unless you are intending on putting on fat for whatever reason).
I wasn't saying to jump into a higher surplus, just a surplus in general, between 200 and 300 calories.
I feel like it's pretty simple to figure out your maintenance if you have been consistently following a cutting diet.....
Yea I mean if you are really exact with your cut and you are tracking..you would know how much you need, but for example me I was not even tracking my cut so I spent some time increasing my calories slowly by adding more food to my day.. I hit maintenance first then added an extra snack to just kick me into surplus. But obviously my way wasn't necessarily the most ideal, since I would always recommend tracking for accuracy
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