Normal hunger levels vs. Clearly need to eat more
oat_bran
Posts: 370 Member
How fo you distinguish between normal hunger levels that most people are bound to experience during weight loss and the kind of hunger when you're clearly undereating?
I'm having trouble distinguishing between the two. Generally I can tolerate hunger pretty well. I even sort of like the acute but superficial kind of hunger I feel several hours without food when my tummy is empty and growling. But several days or weeks into eating in a deficit I develop this deep seated kind of hunger where I sort of feel it everywhere in my body, not just stomach. And it's kind of always there, even after eating a decent-sized meal. And I feel like I get fixated on food alm the time, constantly thinking about it and noticing mentions of food in books or movies, and become hyperaware of other people eating etc.
I'm having trouble distinguishing between the two. Generally I can tolerate hunger pretty well. I even sort of like the acute but superficial kind of hunger I feel several hours without food when my tummy is empty and growling. But several days or weeks into eating in a deficit I develop this deep seated kind of hunger where I sort of feel it everywhere in my body, not just stomach. And it's kind of always there, even after eating a decent-sized meal. And I feel like I get fixated on food alm the time, constantly thinking about it and noticing mentions of food in books or movies, and become hyperaware of other people eating etc.
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This is hard for me too but in general: if my stomach makes actual noise, I need to be eating more. If I think I'm hungry and I drink a whole ton of water and am OK, I'm just bored or cranky about logging or something. To me, it sounds like you aren't eating enough in general because I do not experience that acute level of hunger but maybe it's just the difference between you and me.1
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It seems to me you just answered your own question! I think that explained it pretty well.
The first thing I would look at is, are you pursuing an appropriate weekly weight loss goal for your height & weight? 2 lbs/week is really only for those who are quite obese, and 1 lb/week is generally difficult for those with under 20 lbs to lose. Are you eating back a portion of your exercise calories? I would say some hunger initially is normal, but the *growing* hunger you're describing sounds more likely to be a calorie deficit that is too steep for you. Also, you may want to consider if you have cut too much fat & protein out of your diet.4 -
I find that the length of the hunger is my measurement. If I'm hungry for up-to an hour I feel comfortable. Anything beyond that I personally am not comfortable with. My lifestyle allows me to combat that with eating less but more often and not everyone can do that.2
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I've found the intervals I'm most comfortable eating at - I have coffee in the morning, and then have a snack around 10-1030, lunch near 1, a snack between 3 and 4, dinner between 6 and 7, and sometimes an evening snack between 8 and 9:30.
If I find myself hungry not near those times, I try and have a big glass of water and wait 10-20 minutes. If I'm still hungry, I'm legitimately hungry and I'll eat a lil' something. Sometimes the water does the trick. Sometimes it doesn't.1 -
When I can't stop thinking about food.0
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I'm usually stating to feel hunger just before it's meal time...if you're hungry all day long, it's either psychological or you're under-eating.1
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The answer to the question depends a lot on what you're eating - do you need to eat more? are you getting enough nutrients? Take a look at your healthy fats, fiber, and iron levels - are you getting the recommended amounts? Do you eat carbs and protein after workouts to replenish your supplies?
For me, that sort of deep seated hunger is usually a sign that I should up my calories for a week, get some rest, and recover. Then I can plunge back in, refreshed.0 -
For me when the migraine kicks in i know im undereating
I bought some lactation cookies with no nutritional info so i looked for similar items and chose to log the highest calorie ones. I had 3 a day
By day 3 of was on my *kitten* hardly able to see in a lot of pain....... eating would shift it.
Added in a few extra hundred calories and after 2 days it went away1 -
rheddmobile wrote: »The answer to the question depends a lot on what you're eating - do you need to eat more? are you getting enough nutrients? Take a look at your healthy fats, fiber, and iron levels - are you getting the recommended amounts? Do you eat carbs and protein after workouts to replenish your supplies?
For me, that sort of deep seated hunger is usually a sign that I should up my calories for a week, get some rest, and recover. Then I can plunge back in, refreshed.
I watch my macros pretty carefully and always get more than the minumum recommended amount of proteins, fat and fiber. I get enough carbs, too. I really think it's more the question of calories. Which is why I'm asking how do I know if the chosen rate of weight loss is simply too drastic for me. I'm very active so my average TDEE is 2200 or more some weeks. So even a deficit of 500 calories still means I get to eat a lot. But the deep seated lingering constant kind of hunger I start to experience several weeks into restricting makes me think sometimes that I'm not eating enough. Eating at over my TDEE for several days, usually does help.1 -
rheddmobile wrote: »The answer to the question depends a lot on what you're eating - do you need to eat more? are you getting enough nutrients? Take a look at your healthy fats, fiber, and iron levels - are you getting the recommended amounts? Do you eat carbs and protein after workouts to replenish your supplies?
For me, that sort of deep seated hunger is usually a sign that I should up my calories for a week, get some rest, and recover. Then I can plunge back in, refreshed.
I watch my macros pretty carefully and always get more than the minumum recommended amount of proteins, fat and fiber. I get enough carbs, too. I really think it's more the question of calories. Which is why I'm asking how do I know if the chosen rate of weight loss is simply too drastic for me. I'm very active so my average TDEE is 2200 or more some weeks. So even a deficit of 500 calories still means I get to eat a lot. But the deep seated lingering constant kind of hunger I start to experience several weeks into restricting makes me think sometimes that I'm not eating enough. Eating at over my TDEE for several days, usually does help.
Your goal sounds reasonable. How are your results? Are you losing more than 1 lb/week? That would indicate your deficit is bigger than you think.0 -
rheddmobile wrote: »The answer to the question depends a lot on what you're eating - do you need to eat more? are you getting enough nutrients? Take a look at your healthy fats, fiber, and iron levels - are you getting the recommended amounts? Do you eat carbs and protein after workouts to replenish your supplies?
For me, that sort of deep seated hunger is usually a sign that I should up my calories for a week, get some rest, and recover. Then I can plunge back in, refreshed.
I watch my macros pretty carefully and always get more than the minumum recommended amount of proteins, fat and fiber. I get enough carbs, too. I really think it's more the question of calories. Which is why I'm asking how do I know if the chosen rate of weight loss is simply too drastic for me. I'm very active so my average TDEE is 2200 or more some weeks. So even a deficit of 500 calories still means I get to eat a lot. But the deep seated lingering constant kind of hunger I start to experience several weeks into restricting makes me think sometimes that I'm not eating enough. Eating at over my TDEE for several days, usually does help.
How many more pounds do you want to lose and on average how many are you losing per week?1 -
For me, it's when I can't stop thinking about food and when my stomach is growling. Or I feel weak. I can usually tell what I would consider to be under eating. At the moment I'm eating at 1800 and I can tell if I go any lower it will be too much for me to handle. Not necessarily experience the symptoms I do when I'm overly under eating, but when I am starting to think about snacks more often.0
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Similar to how you tell the difference between an insignificant pain, like muscle fatigue or nerve twinge, and a pain that means you're hurting yourself. To me, there is a difference in the depth of the feeling and the emotion that goes with it.
Superficial pain may be annoying or frustrating but is not *distressing* - there's no fear or malaise associated with it. The only message or carries is "ouch", whereas a pain associated with damage carries other messages - "ouch STOP" or "too much" or "please no", a feeling of overwhelm, anxiety or misery. By contrast, the burn of a muscle being well used or the ache of recovery can actually be enjoyable on some level, while also being sore.
Hunger is similar. The hunger of a moderate deficit is annoying and it does gnaw and you do feel driven to satisfy it, but it's basically a good sensation. It carries the anticipation of being satisfied, makes food taste better, can even make you feel energised.
Hunger of being underfed has a malaise, an anxiety and a feeling of bone-tiredness that goes with it. It's distressing. It doesn't make you feel energised or fill you with anticipation. It's accompanied by a sense of unease or overwhelm or even resentment. A bit like if you are ill and you try to do too much, that "I can't deal with this" feeling. That feeling is your body telling you it's not on an even keel and you need to help it recover.
That's my experience, anyway. It needs time to learn these signals, because it isn't easy to distinguish, especially since if you have a long habit of self-soothing with food, there probably will be a sense of resentment when you choose to eat in a healthier way.
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Reading these posts makes me think that maybe I have never truly been hungry. I do not every recall having hunger pains as severe as mentioned. When my stomach is growling and i have not eaten then I know I need to eat. I also try to eat every few hours, so most days I do not give myself a chance to get that hungry. I think about food all day every day, but it us just fun for me to think about it. As someone mentioned in an early post, if I eat anything less than 1500-1600 calories then I do not feel satiated. On the rare days that I do eat less that that I find the next morning that I feel ravenous. I do not know if anybody mentioned this but a lot of days I eat a lot of veggies to help me feel more full without adding a l t of calories.0
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If I'm so hungry I can't get to sleep I know I can have an extra snack. I thought about little else but when I could eat next for the first few weeks, but it's gradually gotten easier. I have adjusted my calorie intake to be a bit higher by adjusting my activity level setting, as I was unintentionally under eating for a couple of weeks and it was a huge struggle.0
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kshama2001 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »The answer to the question depends a lot on what you're eating - do you need to eat more? are you getting enough nutrients? Take a look at your healthy fats, fiber, and iron levels - are you getting the recommended amounts? Do you eat carbs and protein after workouts to replenish your supplies?
For me, that sort of deep seated hunger is usually a sign that I should up my calories for a week, get some rest, and recover. Then I can plunge back in, refreshed.
I watch my macros pretty carefully and always get more than the minumum recommended amount of proteins, fat and fiber. I get enough carbs, too. I really think it's more the question of calories. Which is why I'm asking how do I know if the chosen rate of weight loss is simply too drastic for me. I'm very active so my average TDEE is 2200 or more some weeks. So even a deficit of 500 calories still means I get to eat a lot. But the deep seated lingering constant kind of hunger I start to experience several weeks into restricting makes me think sometimes that I'm not eating enough. Eating at over my TDEE for several days, usually does help.
How many more pounds do you want to lose and on average how many are you losing per week?
I aim at 1lbs per week or less. And that's more or less how fast I'm losing weight.0 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Similar to how you tell the difference between an insignificant pain, like muscle fatigue or nerve twinge, and a pain that means you're hurting yourself. To me, there is a difference in the depth of the feeling and the emotion that goes with it.
Superficial pain may be annoying or frustrating but is not *distressing* - there's no fear or malaise associated with it. The only message or carries is "ouch", whereas a pain associated with damage carries other messages - "ouch STOP" or "too much" or "please no", a feeling of overwhelm, anxiety or misery. By contrast, the burn of a muscle being well used or the ache of recovery can actually be enjoyable on some level, while also being sore.
Hunger is similar. The hunger of a moderate deficit is annoying and it does gnaw and you do feel driven to satisfy it, but it's basically a good sensation. It carries the anticipation of being satisfied, makes food taste better, can even make you feel energised.
Hunger of being underfed has a malaise, an anxiety and a feeling of bone-tiredness that goes with it. It's distressing. It doesn't make you feel energised or fill you with anticipation. It's accompanied by a sense of unease or overwhelm or even resentment. A bit like if you are ill and you try to do too much, that "I can't deal with this" feeling. That feeling is your body telling you it's not on an even keel and you need to help it recover.
That's my experience, anyway. It needs time to learn these signals, because it isn't easy to distinguish, especially since if you have a long habit of self-soothing with food, there probably will be a sense of resentment when you choose to eat in a healthier way.
Thanks for such a detailed reply. The way you're explaining it, makes it sound really obvious. I guess for some people it is. However, in my experience different kinds of hunger are different not just in intensity, but in general quality.
The deep seated kind of hunger that I was talking about is not a particular located sensation like the superficial acute hunger of not eating for a few hours. It's more like a general feeling, it's hard to pinpoint. It develops slowly, over weeks. I don't just feel it in my stomach, but everywhere in my body. It's a particular state of mind, too. I notice that I get preoccupied with foid and fixated on these thoughts, I become hyperaware of food around me. Many things that usually interest me, become less interesting and food takes more and more headspace. Eating a neal, even a big one rarely makes it go away, it just takes the edge off - and sometimes makes it even stronger. The only thing that does make it gi away is eating over my TDEE for a couple of days.
What makes me doubt sometimes that it's true hunger due to undereating is the fact that I have a relatively small deficit (500 cals or less) and since I'm very active I get to eat a lot (1700-2100 or even more some days). So it's kind of hard to believe that I could be that underfed on so many calories considering that I'm a small female.
Another reason is that I have history with eating disorders (bulimia and EDNOS) and in tbe past the urges to binge developed and felt very similar to that, which is in part logical since binging is often a body's response to severe caloric restriction. But sometimes I wonder if it isn't just a binge urge building up for days.1 -
For me it's a matter of timing. If I just ate a properly balanced meal and I feel hungry an hour or two later, I know it's not true hunger. I know this because if I wait 5-10 minutes the hunger feeling goes away. Also, when I'm just lounging around, that feeling of hunger pops in and out, but when I'm busy doing something that feeling never comes unless I am truly hungry due to activity or the amount of time passed. In a nut shell, I just doubt the hunger feeling when it doesn't come at the right time.0
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It sounds like a craving vs Hunger. Play with your macros. Increase carbs/protein/fat percentage and try to figure out what your body is craving. Satiety has some relationship with macro and nutrient balance and everyone's is a little bit different.
For you it may be a handful of mixed nuts, or skittles, or crackers, etc. The great thing with those 100 calorie snack packs... oreo/potato chips/gummie bears/etc. is that if it's just a craving, 100 calories isn't going to throw your daily calories off. and once you figure out how to scratch that itch, you can do it with the minimal calories needed to provide satisfaction without setting off a binge.0 -
I seem to be able to eat a meal and be hungry immediately after. I have had relentless hunger the last couple weeks and have overeaten on a few occasions. Enough occasions to put me at maintenance this week, so I'm experimenting with 100g fats, way lower carbs and protein to see if that helps. I'm a volume eater so a little nervous to see how this goes but I'm not married to any particular macro split, the numbers will always be the same in terms of total cals. I am really struggling with hunger lately.0
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stanmann571 wrote: »It sounds like a craving vs Hunger. Play with your macros. Increase carbs/protein/fat percentage and try to figure out what your body is craving. Satiety has some relationship with macro and nutrient balance and everyone's is a little bit different.
For you it may be a handful of mixed nuts, or skittles, or crackers, etc. The great thing with those 100 calorie snack packs... oreo/potato chips/gummie bears/etc. is that if it's just a craving, 100 calories isn't going to throw your daily calories off. and once you figure out how to scratch that itch, you can do it with the minimal calories needed to provide satisfaction without setting off a binge.
I really doubt it's a craving. I don't really crave any particular food. I want just food in general. I don't really like junk foidod, so I want whole healthy foods generally. If I think of almonds, I want almonds. If I see bread, I want bread. Or porridge. Or fruit. Basically it's about the quality, not quality.1 -
For me I know its real hunger when I start feeling light headed and I have a lack of my usual energy.
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »I seem to be able to eat a meal and be hungry immediately after. I have had relentless hunger the last couple weeks and have overeaten on a few occasions. Enough occasions to put me at maintenance this week, so I'm experimenting with 100g fats, way lower carbs and protein to see if that helps. I'm a volume eater so a little nervous to see how this goes but I'm not married to any particular macro split, the numbers will always be the same in terms of total cals. I am really struggling with hunger lately.
I definitely noticed that different macro percentages can make a big difference in hunger levels. I realized that I need all macros in more or less equal proportions to feel satiated after meals. I also started to have snacks that are like that, too. So say inatead of just an apple, I'll have apple and peanut butter etc. And that has helped me a lot. So for a few weeks eating like that I feel full after meal and only experience sagnificant hunger 1hr begore my meals or so. But I still develop that deep seated hunger sensation after several weeks and it doesn't really pass irregardless of macro percentages. So I personally don't think any more fat or protein or fiber will change things much in my case. But I hope it helps you! Good luck!1 -
I found this to be really interesting and helpful.
OP I get the same way, and it seems like if I eat above my calorie goal once every few weeks it helps, which leads me to believe I may be under-eating. I have days where nothing fills me up, and im starving all day I never eat as far as to maintenance, I wasnt eating back my exercise calories, and now I am, but now my weight loss is stalled, probably from having more food in my system. Im going to continue to eat a portion of my exercise calories back for several weeks and see what changes happen. But we are going through the same thing, a few weeks after eating with my macros in good shape for a few weeks I just have days where I am starving (not literally).0 -
Did you ever share your stats, OP? Height, current weight, goal weight? It seems if you're currently eating 1700-2100 and losing as expected that you aren't significantly under-eating unless 1 lb/week is too aggressive for you at this stage.
You also don't mention how long you have been trying to run a deficit, but maybe this thread could be beneficial:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10481830/the-diet-break/p1
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Did you ever share your stats, OP? Height, current weight, goal weight? It seems if you're currently eating 1700-2100 and losing as expected that you aren't significantly under-eating unless 1 lb/week is too aggressive for you at this stage.
You also don't mention how long you have been trying to run a deficit, but maybe this thread could be beneficial:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10481830/the-diet-break/p1
5'2", about 130lbs. I'd like to lose another 15-20 pounds. I've been at this weight for almost a year, because everything I lose I gain back due to eating over my TDEE caused by this hunger. I tried lowering the daily deficit and I still eventually develop the deep hunger sensation, it just takes longer. So the result is always the same.0 -
Did you ever share your stats, OP? Height, current weight, goal weight? It seems if you're currently eating 1700-2100 and losing as expected that you aren't significantly under-eating unless 1 lb/week is too aggressive for you at this stage.
You also don't mention how long you have been trying to run a deficit, but maybe this thread could be beneficial:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10481830/the-diet-break/p1
5'2", about 130lbs. I'd like to lose another 15-20 pounds. I've been at this weight for almost a year, because everything I lose I gain back due to eating over my TDEE caused by this hunger. I tried lowering the daily deficit and I still eventually develop the deep hunger sensation, it just takes longer. So the result is always the same.
How many feeding sessions does it take to satisfy the deep hunger?
Ultimately you may need to program a controlled overfeed/refeed into your monthly calorie allotment.
Binging isn't healthy, but if you've got a "cheat day" programmed in... with sufficient overcalories to satisfy the urge, but not so many that it derails your progress...
Otherwise, keep playing with your macros and pursuing a way to stay satisfied without triggering the urge.0 -
You talked about your ED history. Are you still seeing a therapist?
It might be helpful, even for a few sessions. You're within a healthy weight range, and trying to get to the lower side of it-- I'm sure you're aware that for people wired like us (I'm also in treatment, for AAN), dieting can kick off those thought patterns and behaviors again. Better to see someone now, and get on top of it, than to end up in this constant cycle.2 -
I can tell the difference when it impacts my recovery time, my sleep, and general energy level.
If I go a week or so and I'm constantly feeling run down, wanting to drop off to sleep as soon as I sit down at night and take longer than a day to recover from my regular runs with no other explanation, then I can be pretty sure I'm not getting enough food.1 -
collectingblues wrote: »You talked about your ED history. Are you still seeing a therapist?
It might be helpful, even for a few sessions. You're within a healthy weight range, and trying to get to the lower side of it-- I'm sure you're aware that for people wired like us (I'm also in treatment, for AAN), dieting can kick off those thought patterns and behaviors again. Better to see someone now, and get on top of it, than to end up in this constant cycle.
Yeah, I'm bowing out here too. I have no knowledge about EDs, but all along I was wondering if it might be more of a psychological issue. Plus, you are already at a healthy BMI. Wish you the best though, OP
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