HEY KETO PEEPS! Any carb uppers(CKD) out there? Do you refeed ?

jezebellle23

So i won't drone on here, but i am curious about adaptation to restricted carbs for long term and stalls or plateaus. Basically... I'm in this for the long haul and don't want my metabolism to adapt to such carb deficiency and plateau only to be forced to greater calorie restriction. I want to preserve my muscle (build some even) and ive read all sorts on CKD dieting. Any body successful that can share some knowledge?

TanJacked

I've been eating keto for about 6 months now. Started at 258 and as of yesterday morning I was 202. I have taken about 4 keto breaks thtough out the diet. Once on vacation and the other 3 to break through plateaus. I didn't really read anything so I'm sure I didn't do it optimally but basically I would take a weekend to 5 days off from keto. I would gain a little bit of water weight, get back on keto, then lose a bunch of weight. It's been the same thing every time. Once I get back into ketosis and lose the water, I always drop another 5+ lbs of fat fairly quickly after. The morning after eating carbs and seeing how filled out my muscles look is always cool too. Haha. So maybe stay on the standard keto diet and try monthly breaks. Since I've passed me goal weight and bf% that's most likely what I'll be doing. I feel so good on keto I don't see myself fully stopping anytime soon though. Good luck.

VintageFeline

The only reason you would plateau (and by that, more than 6 weeks without a loss) is because you're eating too much. Macro splits, being in ketosis or any other way of eating make no difference. It's the calories that matter.

CharlieBeansmomTracey

VintageFeline wrote: »

The only reason you would plateau (and by that, more than 6 weeks without a loss) is because you're eating too much. Macro splits, being in ketosis or any other way of eating make no difference. It's the calories that matter.

This and you will have to eat at a deficit for a decent amount of time before your metabolism slows down enough to where you need to lower calories, but then again the less you weigh the less calories you need to maintain that weight. to build muscle you need to eat at maintenance(recomp) or in a surplus(bulk). its hard to build it in a deficit and especially since you are female. building muscle takes time even in a surplus.

jezebellle23

Thanks for all your responses. I personally do keto for many other benefits aside from losing some extra baggage. Im 5'7" approx 155lbs and not a delicate frame by nature. I'm lucky to have decent muscle mass by genetics. Keto seems to help with my cystic ovaries, insomnia, anxiety and depression and excess weight on old joint injuries. I'm looking to drop a solid 20-30# of fat and know this is going to be a journey. A slow.... calculated journey. I'm fairly active and not afraid of lifting heavy things. I want to use keto to gain my ideal body and help repair the damage i have done over living (albeit active)a toxic lifestyle. I'm trying to listen to my body and acknowledge cravings for what they truly are. Luckily ive never been a sweets girl... I'm a bread and potato girl. My curiosity about ckd is because im a little inclined to have a higher carb day (let's clarify this....im usually under 40 net c a day and looking at up days that are 100ish) with the aim of not completely knocking myself out of ketosis... just bordering it for me personally.... and eating things like some beans, a piece of sourdough with my omelet at a resturant and maybe even the occasional berries with some whip. Certainly not blowing myself out of the water with these... but variety is the spice of life and the more i tell myself NO NEVER EVER .... the more daunting a full lifestyle transition feels. I'm committed....i just enjoy hearing about people's success in a long term. The last thing i need is to lose what i want only to find it harder to remotely sustain and have it come packing back on because my body adapted to such limited parameters. Oh and... yes... I'm tracking my macros and keeping it in line even when i add a day of a carb up. This does= a calorie surplus day (instead of 1,400ckals a day). And i have not knocked myself out of ketosis.... just stalled it with some Friday night cocktails with my husband

Daedae10

Hi there, if you can answer this question that would be awesome! I just got on the premium to track my macros. I'm curious if when calculating the carbs in the app if they are doing straight carbs or net carbs? For example if the label says 6g carbs and 2G fiber, is the app putting in six carbs or four carbs if you know? Thanks so much!

jezebellle23

I can say..i haven't gone premium... but in the nutrition category... you can select macros. In your profile you can adjust your macros without going premium. As far as the net carbs... I'm pretty sure being that mfp is not geared for ketoers or general low carbers...it doesn't subtract the fiber or things like sugar alcohols (if you use them). So.... when i check my macro %'s... i give a little leeway to the actual carb % knowing it skews it all a little...i just make sure to look at my nutrient portion with scrutiny and eat more complete by following what i have manually adjusted for my personal needs. Hope that helps.

CharlieBeansmomTracey

Daedae10 wrote: »

Hi there, if you can answer this question that would be awesome! I just got on the premium to track my macros. I'm curious if when calculating the carbs in the app if they are doing straight carbs or net carbs? For example if the label says 6g carbs and 2G fiber, is the app putting in six carbs or four carbs if you know? Thanks so much!

the app does not subtract fiber so its all going to be gross grams and not net. I dont even think it does this in the premium version either. you can track any macros you want with the free version as well.

atjays

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

the app does not subtract fiber so its all going to be gross grams and not net. I dont even think it does this in the premium version either. you can track any macros you want with the free version as well.

The app may not but if the particular food is marketed as "low carb" under the premise that the carbs are made up from fiber, the label may have already done that subtraction for you. Example being a carb friendly tortilla, yeah it says 26g carbs but only 6 NET carbs as 20 are from fiber. MFP only shows 6 carbs when I log that food.

Also to answer your question Jezebelle, I do refeed about once a week. I'm an active person, enjoy hiking, cycling and being outdoors plus I'm in the gym 4-5 days a week. That lifestyle just isn't possible on very low carbs. So either I keep my carbs moderate on average that week for workout energy or have several low days and a high day.

Christine_72

Paging @Gallowmere1984 .He knows his stuff when it comes to this subject.

I remember when i first saw the term CKD. I was wondering why there were so many people with Chronic Kidney Disease

jezebellle23

AHAHAHAH.... I too work in a medical field where CKD mean just that...more common in my feline patients LOL. BUt then again...maybe they would benefit from a low car lifestyle as well hahaha.

Christine_72

jezebellle23 wrote: »

AHAHAHAH.... I too work in a medical field where CKD mean just that...more common in my feline patients LOL. BUt then again...maybe they would benefit from a low car lifestyle as well hahaha.

Absolutely 100% believe they would! They're little carnivores after all.

Sorry, i shall stop derailing your thread now Jezebelle

VintageFeline

Christine_72 wrote: »

jezebellle23 wrote: »

AHAHAHAH.... I too work in a medical field where CKD mean just that...more common in my feline patients LOL. BUt then again...maybe they would benefit from a low car lifestyle as well hahaha.

Absolutely 100% believe they would! They're little carnivores after all.

Sorry, i shall stop derailing your thread now Jezebelle

Obligate carnivores no less. They have no requirement for carbs outside of what they get consuming animals.

By the way, I have done RFL and absolutely did refeeds but that's an extreme protocol. With regular old keto I don't believe it is necessary. If you're concerned about adaptive thermogenesis and hormone levels just take a diet break which is eating at maintenance for a week or two every 3 months or so. You don't have to reintroduce carbs to do so. As a carber I do this. It also keeps me sane.

CharlieBeansmomTracey

atjays wrote: »

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

the app does not subtract fiber so its all going to be gross grams and not net. I dont even think it does this in the premium version either. you can track any macros you want with the free version as well.

The app may not but if the particular food is marketed as "low carb" under the premise that the carbs are made up from fiber, the label may have already done that subtraction for you. Example being a carb friendly tortilla, yeah it says 26g carbs but only 6 NET carbs as 20 are from fiber. MFP only shows 6 carbs when I log that food.

Also to answer your question Jezebelle, I do refeed about once a week. I'm an active person, enjoy hiking, cycling and being outdoors plus I'm in the gym 4-5 days a week. That lifestyle just isn't possible on very low carbs. So either I keep my carbs moderate on average that week for workout energy or have several low days and a high day.

then you found an entry where someone did the math. all entries are user entered. not all entries will show it being 6 carbs

macchiatto

FWIW, I started keto in Nov '15. I am 5'7" and was around 151 lbs at the time. (I have a smaller frame and not a ton of muscle mass.) I lost 20 lbs but also found I had other benefits (PCOS symptoms eased up, reduced acid reflux and other GI issues, reduced joint inflammation, increased mental clarity, reduced cravings, stopped feeling constantly hungry, etc.) so I decided to eat some level of LCHF for life, unless a reason surfaces to stop. I've done some experimenting since then with different macros, different carb levels, etc.

Currently I'm recomping and I range from 50-100 gm carbs most days. Even when I was eating keto I would occasionally have a higher carb day but almost always kept it under 100 gm for the day, and didn't notice any ill effects. (Other than if I ate at a higher level for several days in a row--especially eating high-sugar foods--I started to experience reflux, joint pain, and I started to struggle a lot more with cravings and feeling hungry all the time. And at times eating just one serving of a sugary food will trigger reflux.)

inertiastrength

I'm experimenting with much much higher fats and really low carbs (for me) this week due to hunger issues and I will caution you that as a seasoned macro tracker who prides herself in her accuracy the sheer amount of calorie dense foods I'm eating makes me shudder for the people who are eyeballing these same foods; or words... eating thrm haohazardly. I can really kill a deficit if I'm not absolutely perfect with my weighing tracking and logging just because of the nature of the foods. Meats, nut butters, oils etc. Please be accurate. A plateau means you're eating at maintenance and while fat is very satiating to some folks... it's a nightmare calorically if you're not taking steps to be as accurate as possible (like a food scale etc)

Gallowmere1984

CKD is primarily for two purposes.

1: people using large amounts of resistance training while dieting down. The carbs refilling glycogen stores will keep your lifts from relatively sucking.

2: leptin boosting.

If neither of these are a concern for you, there's no need to implement CKD at all. Your concerns are unwarranted. I hellcut from 190 to 150 in a few months using strict keto. I later used CKD for my first bulk, and honestly, it sucked. I now bulk on a macro split of 50/30/20 c/p/f, consuming an average of 3200 kcals/day (gaining 0.2-0.4 lbs./week), and have had no adverse effects from the time I spent keto dieting.

jezebellle23

Yeah....i was looking at my higher carb day still under 100g (post weekend enjoyment) to fuel my Monday lifts a little better until i get fat adapted. No need to really change it much. I'm still aiming to drop the bodyfat and be as muscle sparing while i do so. I'd like to consider a bulk after the holidays when the weather is cooler and hiking options are limited (means more gym days). Thanks for sharing your split success.

Thanks everybody for your advice and personal experiences. It really helps to hear how people are having successes.

Cathietc

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

Daedae10 wrote: »

Hi there, if you can answer this question that would be awesome! I just got on the premium to track my macros. I'm curious if when calculating the carbs in the app if they are doing straight carbs or net carbs? For example if the label says 6g carbs and 2G fiber, is the app putting in six carbs or four carbs if you know? Thanks so much!

the app does not subtract fiber so its all going to be gross grams and not net. I dont even think it does this in the premium version either. you can track any macros you want with the free version as well.

Low carb diet and have found this script very useful https://github.com/Surye/mfp-keto-userscript (needs greasemonkey add on), as it specifically calculates net carbs once you have it. I have this on mine and track net carbs, carbs, fat, protein, fiber and sodium.

CharlieBeansmomTracey

Cathietc wrote: »

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

Daedae10 wrote: »

Hi there, if you can answer this question that would be awesome! I just got on the premium to track my macros. I'm curious if when calculating the carbs in the app if they are doing straight carbs or net carbs? For example if the label says 6g carbs and 2G fiber, is the app putting in six carbs or four carbs if you know? Thanks so much!

the app does not subtract fiber so its all going to be gross grams and not net. I dont even think it does this in the premium version either. you can track any macros you want with the free version as well.

Low carb diet and have found this script very useful https://github.com/Surye/mfp-keto-userscript (needs greasemonkey add on), as it specifically calculates net carbs once you have it. I have this on mine and track net carbs, carbs, fat, protein, fiber and sodium.

yeah but that is a browser add on. so its not part of MFP per say,it just seems like it is because of the browser add on and how the script was written.