Defining abs

99kittycat
99kittycat Posts: 1 Member
edited November 2024 in Fitness and Exercise
eqjl0xko7dcx.jpg

Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?
How can I get them to look more defined?
Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

Replies

  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    edited July 2017
    99kittycat wrote: »
    Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?

    Looks like abs to me

    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat

    99kittycat wrote: »
    Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

    Most of ab definition is due to low body fat but there are exercises that can build the abdominals. There are lots and lots of different exercises but I would recommend picking three: One which targets higher, one for lower area and one for obliques. Add them into your exercise program 2-3 times a week. I run them in close succession or as a super set (so they don't add a lot of time to my work outs).

    Example:

    Upper: Crunches
    Lower: Ab rollouts (ab wheel)
    Obliques: Russian Twists

    The principle of progressive overload applies so you need to be upping the reps or difficulty as you find the exercises get easier.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    edited July 2017
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    99kittycat wrote: »
    Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?

    Looks like abs to me

    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat

    99kittycat wrote: »
    Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

    Most of ab definition is due to low body fat but there are exercises that can build the abdominals. There are lots and lots of different exercises but I would recommend picking three: One which targets higher, one for lower area and one for obliques. Add them into your exercise program 2-3 times a week. I run them in close succession or as a super set (so they don't add a lot of time to my work outs).

    Example:

    Upper: Crunches
    Lower: Ab rollouts (ab wheel)
    Obliques: Russian Twists

    The principle of progressive overload applies so you need to be upping the reps or difficulty as you find the exercises get easier.

    to build up the muscle one needs to do a recomp or run a bulk, as for crunches they are really basically worthless, and you can work your abs and core weightlifting. you dont need an ab wheel or do russian twists.

    you cant spot reduce fat so any exercise can make your core stronger,but to lose fat you have to be recomping or eating in a deficit. and a recomp takes time. which is why its said abs are made in the kitchen.
  • cs2thecox
    cs2thecox Posts: 533 Member
    I'm at about the same stage...
    I measure at 15.8% body fat, but my abs are barely visible. There's muscle there (I have really good core strength), it's just flat.

    Apparently to get them to show, I'd need to do "pumping" exercises, like body builders do to make e.g. their biceps pop for a competition, and do them daily.
    I can't be doing with that, so I've stopped the quest for crazy abs for now, and haven't managed to find out exactly what the pumping exercises would have been! :p

    I have switched to doing lots of my exercises in a more asymmetrical way though, which has helped. For example, I'm now doing single arm dumbbell pulls rather than rows with a barbell, as the single arm version requires more core activation.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    edited July 2017
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    99kittycat wrote: »
    Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?

    Looks like abs to me

    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat

    99kittycat wrote: »
    Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

    Most of ab definition is due to low body fat but there are exercises that can build the abdominals. There are lots and lots of different exercises but I would recommend picking three: One which targets higher, one for lower area and one for obliques. Add them into your exercise program 2-3 times a week. I run them in close succession or as a super set (so they don't add a lot of time to my work outs).

    Example:

    Upper: Crunches
    Lower: Ab rollouts (ab wheel)
    Obliques: Russian Twists

    The principle of progressive overload applies so you need to be upping the reps or difficulty as you find the exercises get easier.

    to build up the muscle one needs to do a recomp or run a bulk, as for crunches they are really basically worthless, and you can work your abs and core weightlifting. you dont need an ab wheel or do russian twists.

    you cant spot reduce fat so any exercise can make your core stronger,but to lose fat you have to be recomping or eating in a deficit. and a recomp takes time. which is why its said abs are made in the kitchen.

    Sorry I thoguht I'd made it clear by stating "
    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat"

    that diet is key.

    As for the exercises: Yes, I also agree that you don't need an ab wheel or to do Russian twists although I'm not 100% convinced that the big compound lifts are, for everyone, all you need to get the abs to show at low BF% . The exercises I posted are just an example of what the OP might do (although I'll admit, it's not my work out - it's the one the Jim Wendler put in 5,3,1 book).
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    99kittycat wrote: »
    Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?

    Looks like abs to me

    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat

    99kittycat wrote: »
    Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

    Most of ab definition is due to low body fat but there are exercises that can build the abdominals. There are lots and lots of different exercises but I would recommend picking three: One which targets higher, one for lower area and one for obliques. Add them into your exercise program 2-3 times a week. I run them in close succession or as a super set (so they don't add a lot of time to my work outs).

    Example:

    Upper: Crunches
    Lower: Ab rollouts (ab wheel)
    Obliques: Russian Twists

    The principle of progressive overload applies so you need to be upping the reps or difficulty as you find the exercises get easier.

    to build up the muscle one needs to do a recomp or run a bulk, as for crunches they are really basically worthless, and you can work your abs and core weightlifting. you dont need an ab wheel or do russian twists.

    you cant spot reduce fat so any exercise can make your core stronger,but to lose fat you have to be recomping or eating in a deficit. and a recomp takes time. which is why its said abs are made in the kitchen.

    Sorry I thoguht I'd made it clear by stating "
    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat"

    that diet is key.

    As for the exercises: Yes, I also agree that you don't need an ab wheel or to do Russian twists although I'm not 100% convinced that the big compound lifts are, for everyone, all you need to get the abs to show at low BF% . The exercises I posted are just an example of what the OP might do (although I'll admit, it's not my work out - it's the one the Jim Wendler put in 5,3,1 book).

    5/3/1 is a good program. yes you did say to lower body fat but you also said build abdominals which means muscle(which means either a recomp or surplus).Its very very hard to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. which is why many do bulk and cut sessions. and you cant spot reduce fat no matter what you do.

    some people may have a lot of definition at a lower body fat % and some wont.but doing core/abdominal workouts will not reduce fat. they will make the muscles stronger and if eating in a surplus you may build some muscle(but not like you would if heavy lifting).but when building muscle you are also gaining fat unless doing a recomp.

    since OP is a woman it will also take longer due to having less testosterone then men.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    99kittycat wrote: »
    Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?

    Looks like abs to me

    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat

    99kittycat wrote: »
    Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

    Most of ab definition is due to low body fat but there are exercises that can build the abdominals. There are lots and lots of different exercises but I would recommend picking three: One which targets higher, one for lower area and one for obliques. Add them into your exercise program 2-3 times a week. I run them in close succession or as a super set (so they don't add a lot of time to my work outs).

    Example:

    Upper: Crunches
    Lower: Ab rollouts (ab wheel)
    Obliques: Russian Twists

    The principle of progressive overload applies so you need to be upping the reps or difficulty as you find the exercises get easier.

    to build up the muscle one needs to do a recomp or run a bulk, as for crunches they are really basically worthless, and you can work your abs and core weightlifting. you dont need an ab wheel or do russian twists.

    you cant spot reduce fat so any exercise can make your core stronger,but to lose fat you have to be recomping or eating in a deficit. and a recomp takes time. which is why its said abs are made in the kitchen.

    Sorry I thoguht I'd made it clear by stating "
    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat"

    that diet is key.

    As for the exercises: Yes, I also agree that you don't need an ab wheel or to do Russian twists although I'm not 100% convinced that the big compound lifts are, for everyone, all you need to get the abs to show at low BF% . The exercises I posted are just an example of what the OP might do (although I'll admit, it's not my work out - it's the one the Jim Wendler put in 5,3,1 book).

    5/3/1 is a good program. yes you did say to lower body fat but you also said build abdominals which means muscle(which means either a recomp or surplus).Its very very hard to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. which is why many do bulk and cut sessions. and you cant spot reduce fat no matter what you do.

    some people may have a lot of definition at a lower body fat % and some wont.but doing core/abdominal workouts will not reduce fat. they will make the muscles stronger and if eating in a surplus you may build some muscle(but not like you would if heavy lifting).but when building muscle you are also gaining fat unless doing a recomp.

    since OP is a woman it will also take longer due to having less testosterone then men.

    I never said that the OP had to build their abs and cut back on fat at the same time - if that's how it came across then that is either my poor explanation, you reading between the lines of what I wrote, or (most likely) a bit of both.

    To be clear:
    • To have visible abs one can diet down to low enough %BF.
    • For some people that is unappealing and/or prohibitively difficult. In those cases I would suggest that they spend some time building the abdominal muscles so that when they subsequently cut back the fat they have visible abs at a higher %BF. In effect, what I'm saying is that larger underlying muscles are visible at a higher %BF than smaller.

  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    99kittycat wrote: »
    Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?

    Looks like abs to me

    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat

    99kittycat wrote: »
    Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

    Most of ab definition is due to low body fat but there are exercises that can build the abdominals. There are lots and lots of different exercises but I would recommend picking three: One which targets higher, one for lower area and one for obliques. Add them into your exercise program 2-3 times a week. I run them in close succession or as a super set (so they don't add a lot of time to my work outs).

    Example:

    Upper: Crunches
    Lower: Ab rollouts (ab wheel)
    Obliques: Russian Twists

    The principle of progressive overload applies so you need to be upping the reps or difficulty as you find the exercises get easier.

    to build up the muscle one needs to do a recomp or run a bulk, as for crunches they are really basically worthless, and you can work your abs and core weightlifting. you dont need an ab wheel or do russian twists.

    you cant spot reduce fat so any exercise can make your core stronger,but to lose fat you have to be recomping or eating in a deficit. and a recomp takes time. which is why its said abs are made in the kitchen.

    Sorry I thoguht I'd made it clear by stating "
    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat"

    that diet is key.

    As for the exercises: Yes, I also agree that you don't need an ab wheel or to do Russian twists although I'm not 100% convinced that the big compound lifts are, for everyone, all you need to get the abs to show at low BF% . The exercises I posted are just an example of what the OP might do (although I'll admit, it's not my work out - it's the one the Jim Wendler put in 5,3,1 book).

    5/3/1 is a good program. yes you did say to lower body fat but you also said build abdominals which means muscle(which means either a recomp or surplus).Its very very hard to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. which is why many do bulk and cut sessions. and you cant spot reduce fat no matter what you do.

    some people may have a lot of definition at a lower body fat % and some wont.but doing core/abdominal workouts will not reduce fat. they will make the muscles stronger and if eating in a surplus you may build some muscle(but not like you would if heavy lifting).but when building muscle you are also gaining fat unless doing a recomp.

    since OP is a woman it will also take longer due to having less testosterone then men.

    I never said that the OP had to build their abs and cut back on fat at the same time - if that's how it came across then that is either my poor explanation, you reading between the lines of what I wrote, or (most likely) a bit of both.

    To be clear:
    • To have visible abs one can diet down to low enough %BF.
    • For some people that is unappealing and/or prohibitively difficult. In those cases I would suggest that they spend some time building the abdominal muscles so that when they subsequently cut back the fat they have visible abs at a higher %BF. In effect, what I'm saying is that larger underlying muscles are visible at a higher %BF than smaller.

    for some though even at a higher percentage of body fat they wont see those underlying muscles. even if they have a decent amount of muscle they may not see any definition. it depends on the person.for some they will have to get down to say 15-18% body fat to see those abs, for others it may be 19-21% Im around 24% and have a little definition in my obliques but thats it. as for dieting down to low enough body fat% for some that may cause them to be underweight. what sonya cele said is correct. even at really low body fat percentages you may not have the abs you want.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    99kittycat wrote: »
    Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?

    Looks like abs to me

    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat

    99kittycat wrote: »
    Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

    Most of ab definition is due to low body fat but there are exercises that can build the abdominals. There are lots and lots of different exercises but I would recommend picking three: One which targets higher, one for lower area and one for obliques. Add them into your exercise program 2-3 times a week. I run them in close succession or as a super set (so they don't add a lot of time to my work outs).

    Example:

    Upper: Crunches
    Lower: Ab rollouts (ab wheel)
    Obliques: Russian Twists

    The principle of progressive overload applies so you need to be upping the reps or difficulty as you find the exercises get easier.

    to build up the muscle one needs to do a recomp or run a bulk, as for crunches they are really basically worthless, and you can work your abs and core weightlifting. you dont need an ab wheel or do russian twists.

    you cant spot reduce fat so any exercise can make your core stronger,but to lose fat you have to be recomping or eating in a deficit. and a recomp takes time. which is why its said abs are made in the kitchen.

    Sorry I thoguht I'd made it clear by stating "
    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat"

    that diet is key.

    As for the exercises: Yes, I also agree that you don't need an ab wheel or to do Russian twists although I'm not 100% convinced that the big compound lifts are, for everyone, all you need to get the abs to show at low BF% . The exercises I posted are just an example of what the OP might do (although I'll admit, it's not my work out - it's the one the Jim Wendler put in 5,3,1 book).

    5/3/1 is a good program. yes you did say to lower body fat but you also said build abdominals which means muscle(which means either a recomp or surplus).Its very very hard to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. which is why many do bulk and cut sessions. and you cant spot reduce fat no matter what you do.

    some people may have a lot of definition at a lower body fat % and some wont.but doing core/abdominal workouts will not reduce fat. they will make the muscles stronger and if eating in a surplus you may build some muscle(but not like you would if heavy lifting).but when building muscle you are also gaining fat unless doing a recomp.

    since OP is a woman it will also take longer due to having less testosterone then men.

    I never said that the OP had to build their abs and cut back on fat at the same time - if that's how it came across then that is either my poor explanation, you reading between the lines of what I wrote, or (most likely) a bit of both.

    To be clear:
    • To have visible abs one can diet down to low enough %BF.
    • For some people that is unappealing and/or prohibitively difficult. In those cases I would suggest that they spend some time building the abdominal muscles so that when they subsequently cut back the fat they have visible abs at a higher %BF. In effect, what I'm saying is that larger underlying muscles are visible at a higher %BF than smaller.

    for some though even at a higher percentage of body fat they wont see those underlying muscles. even if they have a decent amount of muscle they may not see any definition. it depends on the person.for some they will have to get down to say 15-18% body fat to see those abs, for others it may be 19-21% Im around 24% and have a little definition in my obliques but thats it. as for dieting down to low enough body fat% for some that may cause them to be underweight. what sonya cele said is correct. even at really low body fat percentages you may not have the abs you want.

    Again, you're picking me up on points that I never raised - Have you just got something against me?

    The variability from one person to the next on at which point abs are visible is a valid point but it's something that I purposefully avoided mentioning because %BF is so notoriously difficult to get a figure on and, as you point out, people who have the notion that at x%BF they will "have abs" are often disappointed to find that that is not the case.

    I'm not bothered that you chose to bring up the %BF number and throw in some examples, but why are you quoting me as if I brought up some numbers that you disagree with?

    I stand by the statements that:
    • To have visible abs one can diet down to low enough %BF - Yep everyone. If someone tells you your going to have abs at 24% and you hit 24% (by whatever BF% estimate you choose to employ) and you still don't have abs, then you need to go lower. But rest assured, if you go low enough, they will show.
    • For some people that is unappealing and/or prohibitively difficult. In those cases I would suggest that they spend some time building the abdominal muscles so that when they subsequently cut back the fat they have visible abs at a higher %BF. In effect, what I'm saying is that larger underlying muscles are visible at a higher %BF than smaller.

    I'm surprised that you're agreeing with @SonyaCele but seem to want to argue with every post I make because, from what I can see, she and I are saying pretty much the same thing.
  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,841 Member
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    99kittycat wrote: »
    Are those lines abs starting to form or just fat?

    Looks like abs to me

    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat

    99kittycat wrote: »
    Can you tell me any good abdominal exercises that work?

    Most of ab definition is due to low body fat but there are exercises that can build the abdominals. There are lots and lots of different exercises but I would recommend picking three: One which targets higher, one for lower area and one for obliques. Add them into your exercise program 2-3 times a week. I run them in close succession or as a super set (so they don't add a lot of time to my work outs).

    Example:

    Upper: Crunches
    Lower: Ab rollouts (ab wheel)
    Obliques: Russian Twists

    The principle of progressive overload applies so you need to be upping the reps or difficulty as you find the exercises get easier.

    to build up the muscle one needs to do a recomp or run a bulk, as for crunches they are really basically worthless, and you can work your abs and core weightlifting. you dont need an ab wheel or do russian twists.

    you cant spot reduce fat so any exercise can make your core stronger,but to lose fat you have to be recomping or eating in a deficit. and a recomp takes time. which is why its said abs are made in the kitchen.

    Sorry I thoguht I'd made it clear by stating "
    99kittycat wrote: »
    How can I get them to look more defined?


    Lower body fat"

    that diet is key.

    As for the exercises: Yes, I also agree that you don't need an ab wheel or to do Russian twists although I'm not 100% convinced that the big compound lifts are, for everyone, all you need to get the abs to show at low BF% . The exercises I posted are just an example of what the OP might do (although I'll admit, it's not my work out - it's the one the Jim Wendler put in 5,3,1 book).

    5/3/1 is a good program. yes you did say to lower body fat but you also said build abdominals which means muscle(which means either a recomp or surplus).Its very very hard to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. which is why many do bulk and cut sessions. and you cant spot reduce fat no matter what you do.

    some people may have a lot of definition at a lower body fat % and some wont.but doing core/abdominal workouts will not reduce fat. they will make the muscles stronger and if eating in a surplus you may build some muscle(but not like you would if heavy lifting).but when building muscle you are also gaining fat unless doing a recomp.

    since OP is a woman it will also take longer due to having less testosterone then men.

    I never said that the OP had to build their abs and cut back on fat at the same time - if that's how it came across then that is either my poor explanation, you reading between the lines of what I wrote, or (most likely) a bit of both.

    To be clear:
    • To have visible abs one can diet down to low enough %BF.
    • For some people that is unappealing and/or prohibitively difficult. In those cases I would suggest that they spend some time building the abdominal muscles so that when they subsequently cut back the fat they have visible abs at a higher %BF. In effect, what I'm saying is that larger underlying muscles are visible at a higher %BF than smaller.

    for some though even at a higher percentage of body fat they wont see those underlying muscles. even if they have a decent amount of muscle they may not see any definition. it depends on the person.for some they will have to get down to say 15-18% body fat to see those abs, for others it may be 19-21% Im around 24% and have a little definition in my obliques but thats it. as for dieting down to low enough body fat% for some that may cause them to be underweight. what sonya cele said is correct. even at really low body fat percentages you may not have the abs you want.

    Again, you're picking me up on points that I never raised - Have you just got something against me?

    The variability from one person to the next on at which point abs are visible is a valid point but it's something that I purposefully avoided mentioning because %BF is so notoriously difficult to get a figure on and, as you point out, people who have the notion that at x%BF they will "have abs" are often disappointed to find that that is not the case.

    I'm not bothered that you chose to bring up the %BF number and throw in some examples, but why are you quoting me as if I brought up some numbers that you disagree with?

    I stand by the statements that:
    • To have visible abs one can diet down to low enough %BF - Yep everyone. If someone tells you your going to have abs at 24% and you hit 24% (by whatever BF% estimate you choose to employ) and you still don't have abs, then you need to go lower. But rest assured, if you go low enough, they will show.
    • For some people that is unappealing and/or prohibitively difficult. In those cases I would suggest that they spend some time building the abdominal muscles so that when they subsequently cut back the fat they have visible abs at a higher %BF. In effect, what I'm saying is that larger underlying muscles are visible at a higher %BF than smaller.

    I'm surprised that you're agreeing with @SonyaCele but seem to want to argue with every post I make because, from what I can see, she and I are saying pretty much the same thing.

    no, i am not saying the same thing as you. Your posts said the OP needs to lose body fat to have more defined abs. My posts suggests the OP build muscle , because she is so thin already that lowering body fat will probably put her in an unhealthy range and she wont have abs of any size that will be what she wants. There is more to defined abs than just "lower body fat" I may be old fashioned but I would never suggest to an already thin person to lower their bf. So no i'm not saying the same thing as you.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    edited July 2017
    OK so I can see where the problem is, it's me and I'm sorry for that. I think my over simplistic initial post (which I had hoped my later posts had cleared up) is to blame.

    My initial reply to the OP is poor advice - you're both right that dieting to lower BF for the OP is probably a bad move.


    I'm still of the opinion stated in my two bullet points (although I concede that the first is probably a bad option for the OP) and if those statements are still a source of contention then we'll have to agree to disagree.

  • cs2thecox
    cs2thecox Posts: 533 Member
    vdugot8b67w6.jpg

    This is me at 15.8% body fat, just as a fairly arbitrary reference point.
    I never get the vertical lines - everyone's musculature is different.
    I've been tracking macros and training properly for about a year now. It takes tiiiiiime!
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    cs2thecox wrote: »
    vdugot8b67w6.jpg

    This is me at 15.8% body fat, just as a fairly arbitrary reference point.
    I never get the vertical lines - everyone's musculature is different.
    I've been tracking macros and training properly for about a year now. It takes tiiiiiime!

    You definitely have enough muscle mass to have a solid 6-pack, just not lean enough.
  • cs2thecox
    cs2thecox Posts: 533 Member
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    You definitely have enough muscle mass to have a solid 6-pack, just not lean enough.

    Thanks! B)
    It's really all down to whether I'm willing to put in the effort to drop even MORE body fat! Bit worried that continuing to try would lead to other issues. (Not least a full-blown obsession of the kind that lead me to be border-line bulimic in the past. Am in a good place now, and don't want to mess that up!)
    Plus, cake...
This discussion has been closed.

Categories