I have a nutrition theory. What do you think?

MGwasp

I am a pear shaped woman. I have tried Atkins, low carb, and the Paleo diets. In both cases, I initially lost weight and then, without changing anything or cheating, I gained it back. In every case I was accused of cheating or eating more that I should to cause the weight gain. The last time I measured, weighed, and journaled each and every morsel. Nothing had changed form the beginning through when the weight started coming back on. Whenever I added carbs back in though, I lost weight faster. I set about trying to figure out why.

I have talked to many doctors in my job. I routinely ask which nutrition plan they advise. I have had more answers than I have fingers but i have noticed a few things of interest. Doctors that deal with many diabetics or gain weight in the midsection (apples), by and large, prescribe low carb diets. Doctors that have more of a pear shape tend to lean more toward a lower calorie but higher carb diet. Those with what I call runner bodies, tend to lean more to the closer to vegetarian, ie low meat, diets. All of them swear by their plan and are not fans of the others.

So, here is my theory. It is just that and is just observational and not scientifically proven. I believe that apples will lose faster on a low carb diet due to the fact they they are more prone to having a higher insulin response to food. Insulin causes weight gain so by reducing the insulin response they should see great results. Pears, on the other hand, have negligible insulin response, compared to apples, as seen by a much lower diabetic rate for this body type. Reducing carbs for these people will not show the insulin drops that apples see and therefore the result will be harder to attain. In addition, I believe that these people need a more balanced diet so that they can keep their metabolism reved up. Runner type bodies don't usually attain huge muscle mass. Their protein requirements are therefore not as great as people who gain large muscles instead of the long lean runner type. I think that they can achieve their weight loss with more vegetarian that other body types.

What do you think? As I said, this is just based on observation and also at watching my friends and family and what works for each of them. I would love to see a study on this though.

CoderGal

I think... no

PikaKnight

I think... no

^This. If you go through the numerous success stories, you'll find plenty of pear shaped people who have had success. their success varies too - weight amount loss/gained, time frames of their goals, etc.

Achrya

Or. You could eat less and move more.

SuperSexyDork

Or. You could eat less and move more.

Yeah. This.

DragonSquatter

Don't overcomplicate something simple.

Eat well. Get moving. Be consistent. Be patient. See progress.

youngcaseyr

I think it's true that everyone loses weight differently and, while some diet and exercise programs work for some people, or even a lot of people, it is not guaranteed to work for everyone on the same level. I don't believe that a person can be genetically pre-destined to be fat, but it may be harder for them to lose weight or to lose fat by eating certain items or doing certain exercises than it will be for others. And, honestly, if a person is not committed to their diet and exercise then they will not see results and they need to find something that they CAN and WILL commit to. But, on the same notion, everyone is capable of losing weight as long as there is a calorie deficit- no matter what they eat. True, that weight loss and fitness will be different for a person who eats 1500 calories of fast food and sweets than a person who eats fruits and veggies and lean proteins and whole grains, but weight will be lost. Whether weight is lost from muscle or fat also depends on the diet and fitness regimen.

JDHINAZ

I've read articles that said the same thing about your theory, and had one doctor tell me to go low carb/sugar to control my pre-diabetes, but it's just not something I can stick with . BTW, I'm an apple.

notdebby

I think it's altogether possible. There are 4 people in my family. My husband and daughter are both solid and muscular but gain most of their weight in their belly region. My son and I are both very small framed and have what you referred to as the runner body. In fact, I ran the mile and two mile in high school for our track team. Though in recent years I have gained weight because of bad food choices and not moving enough. Also, my weight tends to be all over when I gain.

We'd been following a flexitarian diet for a while. But then my husband started getting really sick and after going to see the doctor, he was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome. He was put on a very low carb diet and since I had some weight to lose myself I decided to try it. Initially I did well but after a couple of weeks, I started getting really sick. I was told to hold out because it was probably just low carb flu so I did my best to hold out for another 2 or 3 weeks but I got to feeling so very bad that I just couldn't do it any longer.

Recently I've been doing more of the flexitarian thing again but without all the processed stuff during the day and having the same thing as my husband at dinner. I'm having a little dairy but no meat in the morning and both my lunch and snack are vegan. The only time I'm eating meat, and I'm trying to keep that to 4 oz is at dinner. But I'm finding that I can see a marked decrease in my energy level right after dinner. Also, I wake up every morning feeling like crap. I've decided that I'm going to basically have to fix one dinner for my husband and daughter and one for my son and me because this low carb, high fat, moderate protein thing just ain't working for my son and me. I don't want to give up meat altogether but 2 oz on a salad may just be all I can handle at a time. My son says that eating meat makes him feel bad too.

So yeah, what you've lined out seems to fit perfectly with the dynamics of my family.

SJVZEE

Every one is going to be different, but it really does come down to calories. I'm very pear shaped and I started my weight loss last fall in a size 14 jeans. I did alternate day intermittent fasting (a different way of restricting calories, with low calorie 'fasting' days), and fast forward to today-I'm wearing a size 4 jeans and can wear size 2 shorts/size 0 skirts. The only thing I did was restrict my calories, albeit in an unconventional way I also did absolutely no exercise while I was activity losing weight. My mom is apple shaped and is now doing alternate day intermittent fasting and she's no longer obese, for the first time since she was a kid. The only thing she's doing is restricting her calories

SirBonerFart

seems legit

cmcollins001

Could you define the time range, when you were weighing and how often, what defines the "weight coming back on" according to you.

I know that weight will fluctuate up and down according to the scale. According to my scale, I've gain 7-8 pounds over the course of the last few days eating at deficit and exercising. Knowing that I was not eating at surplus, this is the results of water retention, food, bloat, and whatever else, but I do know it's not the increase of actual fat.

Bobbie8786

I am an "apple" and I have done Atkins a couple of times in the past. I did lose a lot of weight while on it but that was because after a point I just could not bring myself to eat another bite of meat and so had a huge calorie deficit every day. The only thing that I think will work for me is a simple calorie deficit. I like carbs too much and life is too short so I am committed to no more fad diets and thus far it is working fine. I am 8 weeks in this time and I feel great, I haven't "cheated" a single time and do not feel deprived of anything that might drive me into a binge.

MGwasp

I was and am under the care of a doctor and at all times my caloric intake and timing of meals was identical. Only the ratio of carbs to protein changed. I kept the fat the same. I weighed once every two weeks at the doctor's office. The first two weeks I lost eight pounds. The third week (Weighed myself at home) I lost four pounds. By the time that I weighed in at the doctor's again, I showed that I was a total of ten pounds lost. By the 6th week, I was at a net grand total of only 4 pounds lost. I had regained eight pounds. I followed the plan religiously and journaled everything including exercise. I was tired of being accused of cheating and this was the fourth time that I had the same results. Everything was portioned using a scale and measuring cups. Yes, every bite. Then, Keeping the calories the same, I added in small amounts of whole grains and decreased the protein to keep the calories the same. Exercise has remained constant. Since I started that, four weeks ago, I have lost 15 pounds. Interesting results for me. In addition, I feel more energetic and have fewer cravings. My doctor has since told me that I should no longer let myself be talked into low / no carb diets.

daftthoughts

Where does the hourglass fit into that picture?

Sabine_Stroehm

I am prone to be "apple" shape. I KNOW I lose best when I eat low glycemic.
Everyone in my family is large (I'm not). Everyone is apple shaped. I've been trying to get my sister to try to eat low glycemic for years. I'd bet her a thousand bucks she could more readily lose weight that way.

ninerbuff

No to the theory. If one is healthy (no disease) and with no hormonal complications, then ANY diet will work if followed. That's why everyone swears by them.
What's the one consistent? CALORIE DEFICIT.

I made a thread a while back about people not being "special". And it still applies. Human physiology works the same for everyone. Yes there are people who are stronger, taller, slower, faster due to genetics, but actual physiology of weight loss/weight gain/weight maintenance doesn't change from person to person. Same rules apply to each.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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FitForeverAgain

Or. You could eat less and move more.

Thanks for not making me go through the - "stop complicating things" speech...

miadhail

Don't overcomplicate something simple.

Eat well. Get moving. Be consistent. Be patient. See progress.

ditto!

Also insulin does not make you gain weight. Its purpose is to store glucose in your blood (from the food you eat) into your muscles. Therefore, if you eat more than your body requires, insulin stores it in your muscles and liver as glycogen and in your fat cells as triglycerides. So if you put two and two together, eating in excess leads to more storage i.e. gain in fat and muscles.

So just to add to what is quoted, eat what you need (figure out your BMR then TDEE and eat TDEE - 20%, or simply just eat 10 - 20% lesser than you usually would) and move more (so that it triggers your body to release glucagon (its function is the opposite of insulin where it releases that stored glucose into the blood stream) for your body to use!

Nothing to do with your shape at all. Shapes just show where you store the majority of your fat (and even then that is out of our control)

anemoneprose

No to the theory. If one is healthy (no disease) and with no hormonal complications, then ANY diet will work if followed.

I made a thread a while back about people not being "special". And it still applies. Human physiology works the same for everyone.

i would really like to see more sex-specific studies on the fx of different nutrition/exercise regimes.

most studies that pay attention to it show that (healthy) women and men have different hormonal responses both to exercise and diet. not huge differences, but they exist.

re body type: the diabetics with apple shapes could easily include people who were originally pears & gained visceral fat as a result of metabolic processes

Atlantis_Waites

There is no one size fits all on weight loss.

The human body is a machine and there are so many factors involved in keeping that machine well oiled as well as properly fueled, it is difficult to say.

The whole "eat less, move more" doesn't work for some people... especially those with digestive diseases, like Celiac Disease. Don't get me wrong... it works for the majority of people. But if someone with Celiac is trying to lose weight (because there are a lot of overweight celiacs who struggle to take it off) and they are already gluten free, low glycemic, exercise... but have a pantothenic acid deficiency (which is normal for celiacs who sometimes cannot absorb b vitamins properly) they WILL NOT lose weight.

Pantothenic Acid (vitamin b5) is the vitamin precursor to the fat burning enzyme lipase, as well as the precursor to coenzyme A, which feeds the liver and gives the liver the proper capability to burn off toxins. If the machine that is the human body does not have the fuel, nor the proper catalyzing enzyme, that body will not burn fat, even at a 500 calorie a day diet. It will burn muscle instead.

Those with insulin resistance could benefit from pantothenic acid as well.

I think your theory is valid, but may be lacking in depth of "why" they are apple/pear/hourglass in the first place, which generally leads to a nutritional problem, like you mentioned.

twinketta

I am apple and when I first started on MFP I ate a really heavy protein diet, not atkins, just I ate meat/eggs all the time.

The last 5 months or more I have become vegetarian, probably because I overloaded on meat and the thought of eating meat turns my stomach.

With the protein and now the carbs I always keep within my calorie goals.

It has not made one jot of difference to my apple shape.

I am still apple but with a lower bf%

My belief is that your shape is determined by genetics. My mother and maternal grandmother, great grandmother were all apple shaped

MGwasp

True

twinketta

Let me add on to my previous post..if you have a parent with...let us say large ears/small nose/under eye bags

Let us just call them distinguishing features, then, they are most likely going to be passed down genetically.

You can not `diet` those features away.

If you are apple/pear/hourglass etc then it is most likely that you have inherent genes and all you can do is work with them the best you can.

If you become overweight then those problem areas will become more apparent.

jonnythan

It is just that and is just observational and not scientifically proven. I believe that apples will lose faster on a low carb diet due to the fact they they are more prone to having a higher insulin response to food.

Yeah. No.

walleymama

I, too, have been thinking a lot about the conflicting advice and evidence around weight loss. I enjoyed reading your theory and thought it made some sense on its face.

Unfortunately, it doesn't ring true with my own experience. I easily lost 20 lbs on a paleo-type diet, when I was doing very little exercise and I was definitely eating a high calorie diet. I'm a pear. My husband is an apple and while he initially lost over 65 lbs doing paleo he stalled out and is now going with calorie restriction although still low-carb.

I'm now experimenting with calorie counting and looking for a calorie deficit approach so I can eat the foods I love (in moderation). I'm curious to see how it compares with the paleo experience. While the paleo experience is a proven system for me, the truth is I was not happy with the foods I needed to eat (or, more specifically, what I couldn't eat) and my regaining the weight is proof that, for me at least, it's not a diet I can stick with for life. I'm hoping perhaps calorie tracking will be sustainable for me.

I know it seems to be "common sense" that weight loss is as simple as maintaining a caloric deficit, but obviously it is not that simple or we wouldn't have an epidemic of overweight people. Blaming it on willpower and character strength is an easy moral judgement, and discards the vastly complex systems in our body that are involved in regulating body weight.

Yes, it is true that you can starve yourself into thinness and spend half your life at the gym, but really who wants that and who can live a life where they are hungry all the time? If you are going hungry you will not last on any diet for a lifetime, and yo-yo-ing is worse for you than just being fat, so some studies say.

The Black Swan principle states that it is very hard to prove all swans are white, but as soon as you find one black swan you have disproven the theory. It is easy to state that low calories are the cure for all overweight people, but the black swans are already out there. You can eat a higher calorie diet and lose more weight faster than a lower calorie diet. I myself am living proof of that.

Calories in = calories out is a huge oversimplification of a complex biochemical system whose main priority is homeostasis. The body has many redundant systems whose job it is to reset things to the status quo. This is why many people stall out, etc. Things change as you change your eating and exercise habits. In some ways, your body is working against you. In other ways, we sabotage our bodies by introducing high carb intake and refined sugars to a body that never evolved to handle such a diet.

I've come to believe there is no one theory that is going to work for everybody and be a realistic solution to weight loss. But I do feel there is a solution for a healthy weight for each person, they just need to see what works best for them.

chubaway

It's possible. Anyone who outright dismisses it is closed-minded.

jonnythan

It's possible. Anyone who outright dismisses it is closed-minded.

Or it's just something someone pulled out of thin air with zero evidence.

It's not a "theory." It's an idea. At best it's a hypothesis. But it's not a theory.

jadedone

Well I am pear to hourglass. And I personally find that if my carbs are too low, I am both cranky and insatiably hungry. There is also a too high number where I don't lose weight.

So I shoot for about 45-50% carbs, and protein at 25% and fat at 30%. Seems pretty easy to pay stick with (in range) and it mostly works. Well I have some other issues that impact the scale. I am off by a percentage or few, but typically managed to stay under 50% carbs. At below 40% carbs, I am super cranky. And some of my carbs need to come from starches. They can't all be fruits and veggies. Legumes are OK though.

But anyway, my blood sugar, blood pressure and cholesterol are all excellent. Even at an elevated weight, so I'll stick with it. Let's put it this way, my weight isn't even on the radar as a concern from my doctor, as my numbers are generally very good. Even at my heaviest.

chubaway

It's possible. Anyone who outright dismisses it is closed-minded.

Or it's just something someone pulled out of thin air with zero evidence.

It's not a "theory." It's an idea. At best it's a hypothesis. But it's not a theory.

Perhaps "conjecture" is the word you're looking for?

SideSteel

I disagree with your theory. I also don't believe the duration of your experience verifies your theory as one can easily fluctuate from week to week due to hormones, time of month for females, fluid weight, and not to mention the losses in the beginning will tend to be large anyways.

I would suspect that given you are indeed tracking correctly, your losses would have likely continued after that initial stall/gain even without the macronutrient modifications.

Regardless of me disagreeing with your theory, I'm happy you are having success. Congrats.