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Curious: If paleolithic humans gathered the plants available...
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Vune
Posts: 672 Member
in Debate Club
Why do we assume they didn't gather easy-to-pick grains, like wheat? Seriously, they had 50,000ish years after migrating out of Africa to discover and use them, so why do we assume they stumbled on wheat at the onset of the agricultural revolution?
Hopefully, there's a cultural anthropologist out there waiting to jump on this question. I look forward to reading the answers when I get back from vacation.
Hopefully, there's a cultural anthropologist out there waiting to jump on this question. I look forward to reading the answers when I get back from vacation.
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Replies
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I'm guessing if they were hungry they would eat anything they would find.
Pretty much the same way any of us would if they were dropped on an island like Tom Hanks in Cast Away.2 -
Paleolithic humans were hunters and gatherers, meaning they ate whatever edible plants were available as well as any meat or fish they could catch. There were grains available in some environments (though probably not in forms we would recognize today), and recent discoveries seem to indicate that forms of wheat, oats and other grains were eaten as available. Paleo diets vary but most tend to center on what the originator believes was available during that period - some are sincere efforts to try to eat as closely as possible what we believe paleolithic humans ate, and others are a head-scratching mix of romanticism and restrictive woo.10
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I'm sure they did eat wild wheat, but it was very different from the kind of wheat we consume today. Farmed wheat that we eat today is made up of domesticated strains that have been cross-bred to have larger kernels that remain attached to the ear during harvesting. In the wild, the kernels shatter and fall off easily so the seeds can be dispersed by the plant, making it very difficult to harvest in large quantities. Highly domesticated strains of wheat cannot even survive in the wild. Wheat is thought to have been domesticated about 10,000 years ago, give or take, in the regions of the Fertile Crescent.8
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monkeefan1974 wrote: »I'm sure they did eat wild wheat, but it was very different from the kind of wheat we consume today. Farmed wheat that we eat today is made up of domesticated strains that have been cross-bred to have larger kernels that remain attached to the ear during harvesting. In the wild, the kernels shatter and fall off easily so the seeds can be dispersed by the plant, making it very difficult to harvest in large quantities. Highly domesticated strains of wheat cannot even survive in the wild. Wheat is thought to have been domesticated about 10,000 years ago, give or take, in the regions of the Fertile Crescent.
Everything we eat today is different to how it was in the Paleolithic era.
Almonds and broccoli, for example.8 -
The most recent research says that Paleolithic diets differ from each other dramatically based on location. The Paleo diet was never based on anything in reality; it's a figment of the creator's imagination. It's also worth noting that modern humans are not Paleolithic people. For example, the gene for lactose tolerance in adults arose comparatively recently and spread like wildfire because of the survival advantage it gave to those who had it. If you have the gene, why should you eat the same food as someone who doesn't?7
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Tried to find the paleolithic meat section in the supermarket....no luck.
Jokes aside, pretty confident they ate anything to survive including grains. Guess there's something to say about every angle.2 -
Read Guns, Germs, and Steel for a 1,200 page answer to this question.4
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Why do we assume they didn't gather easy-to-pick grains, like wheat? Seriously, they had 50,000ish years after migrating out of Africa to discover and use them, so why do we assume they stumbled on wheat at the onset of the agricultural revolution?
Hopefully, there's a cultural anthropologist out there waiting to jump on this question. I look forward to reading the answers when I get back from vacation.
I can do better than a cultural anthropologist (who tend to study living populations, fyi). Archaeologist here. Previous responders have already addressed the points I'd have made, but basically, yes, Palaeolithic peoples did gather grains when and where available (plenty of archaeological evidence for this), though as someone pointed out, these were not as easily gathered as modern varieties, which have been bred to be more indehiscent (had to chuck in a big word to seem legit
).
Basically, the 'paleo' diet is a crock. As my profile tag line says, a real Palaeo diet = anything that you can ingest that doesn't kill you, while avoiding anything that might kill you if it gets the chance.29 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Why do we assume they didn't gather easy-to-pick grains, like wheat? Seriously, they had 50,000ish years after migrating out of Africa to discover and use them, so why do we assume they stumbled on wheat at the onset of the agricultural revolution?
Hopefully, there's a cultural anthropologist out there waiting to jump on this question. I look forward to reading the answers when I get back from vacation.
I can do better than a cultural anthropologist (who tend to study living populations, fyi). Archaeologist here. Previous responders have already addressed the points I'd have made, but basically, yes, Palaeolithic peoples did gather grains when and where available (plenty of archaeological evidence for this), though as someone pointed out, these were not as easily gathered as modern varieties, which have been bred to be more indehiscent (had to chuck in a big word to seem legit ).
Basically, the 'paleo' diet is a crock. As my profile tag line says, a real Palaeo diet = anything that you can ingest that doesn't kill you, while avoiding anything that might kill you if it gets the chance.
I've always said that the modern paleo diet doesn't include nearly enough insect larvae and almost rotten scavenged carcasses to be even remotely accurate
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No one eats true paleo. I'm betting no one drinks unfiltered river or stream water consistently.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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No one eats true paleo. I'm betting no one drinks unfiltered river or stream water consistently.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
No one who doesn't end up with a Darwin award, anyway.
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No one eats true paleo. I'm betting no one drinks unfiltered river or stream water consistently.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
this ..
and all the people saying they make "paleo brownies" lol really? I did not know that caves came equipped with blenders and ovens...8 -
No one eats true paleo. I'm betting no one drinks unfiltered river or stream water consistently.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When I'm backpacking, I'm pretty selective about when to drink without filtering, but I definitely prefer it that way. (Has to be swift flowing and close to the snow or ice it's melting from, with no human activity upstream.)2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »No one eats true paleo. I'm betting no one drinks unfiltered river or stream water consistently.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When I'm backpacking, I'm pretty selective about when to drink without filtering, but I definitely prefer it that way. (Has to be swift flowing and close to the snow or ice it's melting from, with no human activity upstream.)
What about animal activity upstream?1 -
theresejesu wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »No one eats true paleo. I'm betting no one drinks unfiltered river or stream water consistently.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
When I'm backpacking, I'm pretty selective about when to drink without filtering, but I definitely prefer it that way. (Has to be swift flowing and close to the snow or ice it's melting from, with no human activity upstream.)
What about animal activity upstream?
My husband backpacks and snow camps, and he does the same. If you're in an area as described and there aren't herds of animals upstream, whatever natural pollution occurs will be diluted to safe levels by the incoming snow melt. There are gadgets available to test to water safety if there's a question.1 -
No one eats true paleo. I'm betting no one drinks unfiltered river or stream water consistently.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
this ..
and all the people saying they make "paleo brownies" lol really? I did not know that caves came equipped with blenders and ovens...
The trickier bit would be gathering all the ingredients from around the world!6 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »No one eats true paleo. I'm betting no one drinks unfiltered river or stream water consistently.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
this ..
and all the people saying they make "paleo brownies" lol really? I did not know that caves came equipped with blenders and ovens...
The trickier bit would be gathering all the ingredients from around the world!
Quite. I was wondering, if even they did have cacao, did they yet know how to process it and to add sweetener to make it the delicious delicious deliciousness that would be required for a brownie?3 -
I've always said (at length, repeatedly, until people started backing away slowly) that if someone could wave a magic wand that would see us, as average well-fed Western people, each presented with a day's worth of PERFECTLY nutritionally balanced natural food, that fulfilled every single macro- and micronutrient and was compatible with taking our paleolithic origins fully into account, we'd all rather go hungry for the day!
Insects. I'm telling you.
Further, it certainly wouldn't pander to our cultural flavour preferences. I like my taste and texture combinations very much and I doubt liberal use of curry powder would be part of the magic fairy's diet plan.
Screw the optimal diet, I'll stick with "good enough for my health, tastes fantastic and doesn't conflict with my moral beliefs" for my diet.
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Ive read that they probably ate from over 250 different species of plants, so a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
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theresejesu wrote: »Ive read that they probably ate from over 250 different species of plants, so a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
This is why my bulking plan always includes literally all of the vegetables, and fruits, and meats...and potatoes.2
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