Running training plan...

DX2JX2

I've been back into running for the past 8 weeks or so. Thus far I'm progressing OK. I'm back to being able to run 4 miles or so at a steady pace with no walking breaks. Yesterday was my fastest run thus far...3.6 miles at a 9'37" pace.

I've decided that I'd like to be able to complete a 5K at a pace of 8 minutes/mile (I realize that I'll be slow moving to not quite as slow, but hey, let's call this phase 1).

I'm not training for anything specific nor have any time frame in mind...this is simply because I think it would be fun and having a larger purpose will help to keep my runs interesting.

What would a reasonable training plan and time horizon for this look like? How should I structure my running week and what sort of metrics/measurements should I be shooting for along the way?

I was thinking I could probably do it before the winter (three months) but that's a total guess. I know absolutely nothing about how to structure this type of program or how long it should take.

One note - I'm time constrained with workouts during the work week. I only have 45 minutes for exercise before work (1 hour max including warm up and cool down) and do not consistently have time after work. I generally try to save weekends as rest days, but could change this for the sake of a larger goal as long as my wife doesn't mind (though I defer pretty much everything to her right now as we're expecting).

Thanks! Advice or links to program ideas would be much appreciated!

vespiquenn

To run a faster 5k time, you want to keep building distance at this point. Jumping to speed work with only 8 weeks under your belt isn't often a very safe plan.

Once you finish c25k, I recommend moving onto c210k. By increasing distance and endurance, you will naturally gain speed.

Philtex

DX2JX2 wrote: »

Yesterday was my fastest run thus far...3.6 miles at a 9'37" pace.

I've decided that I'd like to be able to complete a 5K at a pace of 8 minutes/mile (I realize that I'll be slow moving to not quite as slow, but hey, let's call this phase 1).

At a 9 1/2 minute pace you will have lots of company along the route of your 5K. You will finish ahead of me. Keep putting in the miles and you will increase your speed. Keep it fun!

MobyCarp

DX2JX2 wrote: »

I've been back into running for the past 8 weeks or so. Thus far I'm progressing OK. I'm back to being able to run 4 miles or so at a steady pace with no walking breaks. Yesterday was my fastest run thus far...3.6 miles at a 9'37" pace.

I've decided that I'd like to be able to complete a 5K at a pace of 8 minutes/mile (I realize that I'll be slow moving to not quite as slow, but hey, let's call this phase 1).
. . .

Thanks! Advice or links to program ideas would be much appreciated!

@DX2JX2 -

Most of your running should be significantly slower than your 5K race pace. Assuming that the 9:37 pace was when you were *trying* to run fast, an 8:00 pace for a 5K may be a bit on the aggressive side. That would imply a 5K time of 24:48, which is pretty respectable by many runners' standards. Even if the race environment only gets you to a 9:30 pace, that's still under 30 minutes for a 5K.

Given the way you describe your Real Life constraints, I would advise that you focus on consistently running distances of 3 to 5 miles. Yes, with your time constraints that implies that you must run at least one weekend day to get a 5 mile run in. Just do the longer run on the weekend easy, and no more than one weekday run harder than easy. "Easy" in this context means conversational. It's best if you can run with someone and carry on a conversation. For solo running, breath control should be on the level of being able to sing a familiar song without having to breathe more often than you would if you were just standing around and singing. Do this consistently, over a long period of time, and "easy" will become a faster pace than it was when you started. That will also translate to a faster race pace, when you get as far as signing up for a race.

. . . and an 8:00 pace per mile is not generally considered slow. For point of reference, I ran a 5K last Friday. (pause to look up results) Two runners averaged 8:00 per mile. They finished 101st and 102nd out of 272 overall finishers. That might not be blazing fast, but it's quite respectable. A 9:30 average pace was good for 184th of 272, still nowhere close to last. To finish in the bottom 10% of this race, you would have had to run 12:29 per mile or slower.

Remember, no matter how slow or fast you run: There will always be someone faster. There will always be someone slower. And as long as you keep moving, you're lapping the people who stayed on the couch.

MeanderingMammal

As a new runner the most effective way to improve your pace is to increase your running volume, but with your time constraint that becomes a challenge. Personally I'd generally say don't bother with speedwork until you're consistently running 10K 3-4 times per week. At that point you can start using more sophisticated sessions.

allyphoe

MobyCarp wrote: »

. . . and an 8:00 pace per mile is not generally considered slow. For point of reference, I ran a 5K last Friday. (pause to look up results) Two runners averaged 8:00 per mile. They finished 101st and 102nd out of 272 overall finishers.

5K local to me last Saturday: Two runners averaged 8:00 per mile. They finished 37th and 38th out of 590 runners. This was a certified, non-novelty race with 10K and Fun Run options. One of the local running stores does a C25K program whose participants are intended to participate in it, so it's somewhat skewed to newer runners.

9:37 was top 20%. 12:06 per mile was 50th percentile; 17:30 and slower was the bottom 10%.

spiriteagle99

Consistency will help you more than doing formal speedwork right now. More miles, mostly easy, will give you both endurance and speed.

mattiefras

Lots of good advise here, but the old adage "You have to run fast to run fast." Is true. Adding speed work to your running plan is essential to getting faster and it doesn't take anymore time than doing your routine running workouts. Google Hal Higdon and see if you can glean anything from his website. Farleks and hill work will get you faster if you add them in 2 to 3 times a week. 2 to start. You have enough of a base to train this way.

MeanderingMammal

mattiefras wrote: »

You have enough of a base to train this way.

From a coaching perspective I'd challenge that.

mattiefras

Obviously, whatever you add into your training has to be gradual, but this person is not new to running. They are up to 4 miles means they had a pretty good base to begin with. There's a lot to be said for muscle memory. Speed work is not hazardous to your health! It just has to be done sensibly and added in gradually. I respect your opinion, but as a runner of more than 35 years, ultra marathoner, former running store associate and physical therapy office manager, I'm not just handing out uninformed advise. I suppose without knowing the person, we both could be partially wrong or right. Bottom line, be in tune with your body and know when to add and subtract various activities. Don't run through constant pain and make the most of your workouts.

MeanderingMammal

mattiefras wrote: »

Obviously, whatever you add into your training has to be gradual, but this person is not new to running. They are up to 4 miles means they had a pretty good base to begin with. ..... Speed work is not hazardous to your health! It just has to be done sensibly and added in gradually.

With eight weeks or running I'd argue that the originator probably hasn't yet developed the aerobic capacity to really benefit from speedwork. I'd also argue that the joint and connective tissue development from load bearing training probably isn't yet significant, so there is an increased risk of injury.

For someone aiming to move from a 30 minute 5K to a 24 minute, just adding easy paced volume will do that fairly quickly. Going to a 22 minute 5K will be more of a challenge and is the point where speedwork will have an effect. I'd go as far as suggesting that increased easy paced volume will get him to his target more quickly than building in speedwork.

The biggest challenge the originator has is the restricted session time. A decent quality speed session will take longer than 45 minutes.

So given the constraints, I'd be designing a largely easy paced programme. Hillwork can be included in that as it helps develop glute power.

mattiefras

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

mattiefras wrote: »

Obviously, whatever you add into your training has to be gradual, but this person is not new to running. They are up to 4 miles means they had a pretty good base to begin with. ..... Speed work is not hazardous to your health! It just has to be done sensibly and added in gradually.

With eight weeks or running I'd argue that the originator probably hasn't yet developed the aerobic capacity to really benefit from speedwork. I'd also argue that the joint and connective tissue development from load bearing training probably isn't yet significant, so there is an increased risk of injury.

For someone aiming to move from a 30 minute 5K to a 24 minute, just adding easy paced volume will do that fairly quickly. Going to a 22 minute 5K will be more of a challenge and is the point where speedwork will have an effect. I'd go as far as suggesting that increased easy paced volume will get him to his target more quickly than building in speedwork.

The biggest challenge the originator has is the restricted session time. A decent quality speed session will take longer than 45 minutes.

So given the constraints, I'd be designing a largely easy paced programme. Hillwork can be included in that as it helps develop glute power.

He said he'd "been BACK into running" Hence the assumption that he has a history of running...

DX2JX2

Thanks all for the great advice thus far. For reference, the 9'37" was the average for the 3.5 miles. On a 0.9 mile route, my first lap was at a slightly over 10 minute pace, the second was at a sub-9 pace and the last two were right around the average. Most of my runs tend to follow this pattern.

I'm very comfortable running at a mid-9 pace. I am a little breathy at that speed but can carry on a conversation ( or sing along to my music). My HR hangs right around 153 (I'm 41) which is a bit on the high side per standard recommendations but I can sustain that speed over a distance without a ton of struggle. It seems to be my 'running pocket' right now...I revert to that pace when I'm not consciously thinking about my speed and am comfortable enough to mentally zone out every now and then over the course of the run.

My issue is definitely cardiovascular. I have no physical issues with running a faster pace. I just can't sustain it for very long. I managed to maintain an 8 minute pace for ~0.5 mile this morning but I needed a healthy walk break to recover afterwards. I ended up doing 6 miles at an average pace in the high 10's as a result.

I did run when I was in my 20's - I used to be able to run a 5k at a sub-8 pace. That said, I never had any formal training or coaching. The only reason I could probably do it was that I was young, was in really good shape, and had a total disregard for injury prevention. 15 sedentary years and 35 pounds later and I now actually feel the pain when I push myself too hard and my body doesn't seem to bounce back like it used to. I'd like to be able to do it the right way this time so I can continue to run for the long term. And I know that speed isn't everything but I'm sure many of you would know what I mean when I say that the speed itself makes running more fun.

Thanks again! I appreciate the advice so far.

dewd2

OP - Just because you 'can' run that fast does not mean you should. If you have taken time off from running (sounds like you took many years off) and you have only been running for 8 weeks, slow down. Slow down now or fight the injuries later. Speed will come with distance at this point.

FWIW - I push myself to the absolute edge and I'm nearly 50. You can do it at 41 as well. You just can't do it after 8 weeks of running. Your body will break down.

Good luck.

MeanderingMammal

DX2JX2 wrote: »

I'm very comfortable running at a mid-9 pace. I am a little breathy at that speed but can carry on a conversation ( or sing along to my music). My HR hangs right around 153 (I'm 41) which is a bit on the high side per standard recommendations but I can sustain that speed over a distance without a ton of struggle. It seems to be my 'running pocket' right now...I revert to that pace when I'm not consciously thinking about my speed and am comfortable enough to mentally zone out every now and then over the course of the run.

Many new runners struggle to slow down into the range where endurance will come easily. It does take focus.

What I would say is that whilst zone training has a role, it's only useful if you know your Max HR, Lactate Threshold and VO2 Max. So an easy paced HR of 153 might be perfectly reasonable, or it may not.

fwiw I'm 47, my MHR is 202bpm, running LTHR is 175 and my easy pace is done at 145bpm

My issue is definitely cardiovascular. I have no physical issues with running a faster pace. I just can't sustain it for very long.

One of the biggest reasons that running has a reasonably low adherence rate is that injuries for new runners tend to appear suddenly, and be enough to have to cease running for a period. People then don't come back to it after recovery. I'd also note that runners tend to have two types of injury; wear and tear or overuse.

One of the benefits of high volume low intensity training is that it's allowing the build up of connective tissue in the lower body. Cardiovascular fitness improves quickly. You've already seen that from your very rapid increase in distance, albeit intervals. The bio-mechanical improvements are somewhat slower and the snag is, once you're injured you do need to back off and lose some of the CV improvements you've made.

I managed to maintain an 8 minute pace for ~0.5 mile this morning but I needed a healthy walk break to recover afterwards. I ended up doing 6 miles at an average pace in the high 10's as a result.

What you're describing looks a bit like Galloway method, although again it's clear that you have some way to go. Personally it's not a technique I use, but I know of a couple of people who used it at the trail marathon I did last weekend.

I'd like to be able to do it the right way this time so I can continue to run for the long term. And I know that speed isn't everything but I'm sure many of you would know what I mean when I say that the speed itself makes running more fun.

We each find our preference for running. Personally I'm more into marathoning and ultra-running than short distances. That said I do fairly regularly participate in a 5K locally as a threshold session has some value to me. Essentially it then becomes me speed session, with the rest of my mileage being the long easy paced miles. What I'll do is run 6km to the park, run the 5K then run home. That gives me a slightly excessive warm up before the threshold effort.

DX2JX2

Thanks all for the advice. It sounds like high volume/low intensity is the preferred way to go in order to minimize the chance of injury/burn out. I tend to agree though will have to figure out scheduling - I can definitely add a long run on one weekend morning but my intra-workweek workouts will be a little tougher to figure out. I'm already waking up between 5 and 5:30 AM to give myself the 45-60 minutes I currently have before work. I'm not sure if waking up earlier than that is realistic for me.

What if I were to do one long run per week (very easy paced 6 miles working up to 10 miles over time) and kept the rest of my runs on the shorter side? One run per week would be short (~2.5 miles) and focused on maintaining the fastest (safe) target pace possible over the course of the entire run. The remaining runs would be 3.5 to 4.5 miles and focused on overall running health with the intent to very gradually improve my average pace over time (average pace won't be quite as easy as on the long run but neither will I be totally pushing myself on every lap). I can incorporate hills into my route - nothing drastic but definitely steep and long enough to know that they're going to hurt!

Assuming I can get runs in 4 days a week on average, this should give me an average of about 16 miles a week in the short-term with that number increasing slightly over time as I can extend my long run and as gradual improvements in my pace allow for me to complete more miles in the same amount of time.

On the plus side, I'm not worried about how long it takes me to get to goal. Whether it happens in 3 months or whether it happens in 12 months isn't really a concern. The important point for me is to give myself realistic targets and milestones so I have something to strive for (in addition to getting all of the health and emotional benefits that running brings).

Thanks!

spiriteagle99

Just make sure that your long run is not more than 50% of your total weekly miles. It's better if it's less. (For elite runners it's more like 25%, but they are running at least 70-100 mpw). Again, you increase your chance of injury because you'll get more tired and your form will break down. Also if you miss the long run for any reason, you've missed your biggest training stimulus for the week. That slows down progress.