Human Carnivore Study

MyriiStorm
MyriiStorm Posts: 609 Member
edited November 20 in Food and Nutrition
In case anyone is interested, there's a study that's about to begin on the carnivore diet in humans, and they are still accepting participants.

http://nequalsmany.com/hello-world/

It's not a scientific study, and the results will all be self-reported. Still, it looks like an interesting experiment. They have over 300 volunteers so far, and I'm curious how many will be able to stick to a strictly carnivorous diet for the whole 90 days.

Replies

  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    I think the point is to try some n=1 experimenting and gather some anecdotal evidence that could lead to further study.

    Many have tried vegetarian challenges, if even just for a day. It agreed with many people. A carnivorous challenge agrees with some too, and some will continue it.
  • Carl_Carlson
    Carl_Carlson Posts: 85 Member
    One method of discovering the proper diet for an extinct species is for paleontologists to examine the dentition in the fossil record. Looking at the teeth of humans it is clear that we are omnivores, neither vegetarian nor carnivore.
  • Cbean08
    Cbean08 Posts: 1,092 Member
    What's the point? We already know that other food groups provide nutrients that meat does not. Meat isn't exactly low calorie, so it's not some "magic diet." (unless it's found to be so fulling and satiating that people cannot possibly over eat.) It's not less expensive than eating all the food groups, so there isn't an economic/ financial opportunity.

    Overall, sounds strange and self reporting is a poor way to measure. I'd be interested to see the results but they need to account for a large error margin.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Cbean08 wrote: »
    What's the point? We already know that other food groups provide nutrients that meat does not. Meat isn't exactly low calorie, so it's not some "magic diet." (unless it's found to be so fulling and satiating that people cannot possibly over eat.) It's not less expensive than eating all the food groups, so there isn't an economic/ financial opportunity.

    Overall, sounds strange and self reporting is a poor way to measure. I'd be interested to see the results but they need to account for a large error margin.

    Meat does not provide nutrients? Are you being sarcastic? What nutrients?
  • Cbean08
    Cbean08 Posts: 1,092 Member
    @nvmomketo - I didn't make that very clear, oops. Yes, meat is nutritious, but it doesn't provide everything that the body needs. This is where the other food groups are necessary.

    Also, I just thought of this- can't you get sick from eating too much meat? Gout?
  • RuNaRoUnDaFiEld
    RuNaRoUnDaFiEld Posts: 5,864 Member
    I couldn't live without my veggies.
  • FlufferCat
    FlufferCat Posts: 39 Member
    There were doctors in the past who put people on a mostly meat diet.In the 1880's ? There was a James Salisbury.( yes the Salisbury steak man )And there was a Dr Donaldson who wrote a book,'Strong Medicine'.
    I haven't read these.I heard a YouTube user named Butter Bob Briggs speaking of them.
    But meat diets aren't a new idea.Really the Plains Indians ate a mostly meat diet.Buffalo,Deer,Wild Birds,etc..They added some berries,and wild root vegetables to that.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    Flutter cat, there are some in the scientific community reporting, we should emulate people, as the Plains Indians and others who were/are so close to the land because diversity is what we need.
  • MichelleSilverleaf
    MichelleSilverleaf Posts: 2,027 Member
    I'd love to see the info that says animal products provide everything. Sounds about as rock solid as the guy who claims potatoes have everything the body needs.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited August 2017
    MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »
    I'd love to see the info that says animal products provide everything. Sounds about as rock solid as the guy who claims potatoes have everything the body needs.

    Stefansson lived with the Inuit and did a year long, medically supervised meat challenge. http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/vilhjalmur-stefansson/adventures-in-diet/

    More if you are interested in their experiences: http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/vilhjalmur-stefansson/

    Can you think of anything animal products do not provide? Besides fibre. I can't.
  • Cbean08
    Cbean08 Posts: 1,092 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »

    Stefansson lived with the Inuit and did a year long, medically supervised meat challenge. http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/vilhjalmur-stefansson/adventures-in-diet/

    More if you are interested in their experiences: http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/vilhjalmur-stefansson/

    Can you think of anything animal products do not provide? Besides fibre. I can't.

    Hmm, I'll take a look when I have more time. Thanks for backing up your opinion with some info. I was about to ask the same as I've never heard this view point before.

    And fiber is helpful but I see people living off chips, fried chicken and soda and there's not much fiber in any of that.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    I wouldn't make through the first day. And from what I've read on carnivorous diets in humans you would have eat raw liver in order to get vitamin C (assuming they aren't allowing supplements). No thank you. ::sick::
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited August 2017
    Cbean08 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »

    Stefansson lived with the Inuit and did a year long, medically supervised meat challenge. http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/vilhjalmur-stefansson/adventures-in-diet/

    More if you are interested in their experiences: http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/vilhjalmur-stefansson/

    Can you think of anything animal products do not provide? Besides fibre. I can't.

    Hmm, I'll take a look when I have more time. Thanks for backing up your opinion with some info. I was about to ask the same as I've never heard this view point before.

    And fiber is helpful but I see people living off chips, fried chicken and soda and there's not much fiber in any of that.

    True. I do think fibre is needed mainly (only) for plant matter digestion though. I've done carnivorous diets for a couple of months at a time, and tend to eat that way up to about half the time now. And TBH, it's when I have veggies, nuts and fruit that my stomach gets messed up. If I would just stick to meat and eggs my stomach and bowel issues are gone. Things are perfect. I feel great.

    I just really enjoy veggies and nuts so it's hard eliminate them. ;) Especially since they are not unhealthy foods, in a nutritional sense. Individual food sensitivities notwithstanding.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited August 2017
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    I wouldn't make through the first day. And from what I've read on carnivorous diets in humans you would have eat raw liver in order to get vitamin C (assuming they aren't allowing supplements). No thank you. ::sick::

    You do not actually have to do that, although it is a great source of vitamin. But yuck.

    Vitamin C needs appear to drop a lot without plant foods. I do not know why, and have only read a little on it, but it would explain why the Inuit did not all die of scurvy.

    And the links I posted above include Stefansson's experience, and his peers' experiences, with curing (mild) scurvy on an all meat diet.
    HeidiCooksSupper wrote: »
    The long slow evolution of geographically isolated groups of humans has resulted in slight genetic variations in ability to digest and use the nutrition of different foods. East Asian peoples, from millennia of not consuming cow milk and cheese are likely to be lactose intolerant because for millennia there was little need to keep the genetic coding for lactose tolerance. Inuit are more able to absorb nutrients from the meat products they consume because a strong ability to do that was needed to survive in an environment where access to fruits, vegetables and grains was not possible.

    Most of us in the 21st century do not come from a single, isolated population like the Inuit. We are not likely to have that unusual genetic make-up that allows us to thrive without fruits, vegetables and grains.

    Possibly. But I think it unlikely.

    I come from northern European stock. Mainly an animal based dietary culture. With cabbage... ;)
  • shaumom
    shaumom Posts: 1,003 Member
    edited August 2017
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    Vitamin C needs appear to drop a lot without plant foods. I do not know why, and have only read a little on it, but it would explain why the Inuit did not all die of scurvy.

    I have wondered if the gut biome might hold the key to that. I know that in the gut biome project, it has been discovered that some native populations in certain areas develop gut bacteria that help them with the food in that area. For example, in Japan, a common gut bacteria breaks down seaweed preferentially, in ways that gut bacteria in other areas do not.

    And I know that some gut bacteria can also produce vitamins as by-products.

    So I would not be surprised if someday, we find out that there exist certain bacteria that thrive on a no-low plant diet might also produce vitamin c as a by-product, at least in the inuit population or other areas where this was a more common diet, you know?
  • savithny
    savithny Posts: 1,200 Member
    yeah, people of the far north ate reindeer stomach contents, so - they ate grass. And also sought out lichens and other non-meat foods.

    And the plains Indians also ate plenty of parts of animals that we just don't anymore - not just livers and kidneys (which provide essential nutrients) but brains, blood, and marrow. They also craved rare nutrients so much that in the spring there was a special hunt of pregnant buffalo so they could eat fetal buffalo.
    None of which are readily available to the modern carnivore-wannabe.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    shaumom wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    Vitamin C needs appear to drop a lot without plant foods. I do not know why, and have only read a little on it, but it would explain why the Inuit did not all die of scurvy.

    I have wondered if the gut biome might hold the key to that. I know that in the gut biome project, it has been discovered that some native populations in certain areas develop gut bacteria that help them with the food in that area. For example, in Japan, a common gut bacteria breaks down seaweed preferentially, in ways that gut bacteria in other areas do not.

    And I know that some gut bacteria can also produce vitamins as by-products.

    So I would not be surprised if someday, we find out that there exist certain bacteria that thrive on a no-low plant diet might also produce vitamin c as a by-product, at least in the inuit population or other areas where this was a more common diet, you know?

    That could be part of it. But other people besides northern natives seem to do fine without plants too. If the gut biome is part of the picture my guess is that we seem to handle animal well but the ability to handle plants can be reduced depending on gut fauna - we can't always get the nutrition we need from plants.

    Just a guess though.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    savithny wrote: »
    yeah, people of the far north ate reindeer stomach contents, so - they ate grass. And also sought out lichens and other non-meat foods.

    And the plains Indians also ate plenty of parts of animals that we just don't anymore - not just livers and kidneys (which provide essential nutrients) but brains, blood, and marrow. They also craved rare nutrients so much that in the spring there was a special hunt of pregnant buffalo so they could eat fetal buffalo.
    None of which are readily available to the modern carnivore-wannabe.

    They definitely ate more of the animal than we often do. I have friends who get the heebeegeebees when I mention tongue or headcheese. Or even when I mention that we butcher our own meat. ;)

    That could offer better nutrition than what most North American carnivores eat today, but the carnivores I know still have no nutritional deficiencies. The meat seems to be enough.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    I think a carefully selected carnivore diet CAN cover all nutritional needs (I do think some raw meat and a decent amount of organ meat is probably necessary), but it's none of my business anyway unless they ask for my opinion (which is how I feel about anyone's diet when they aren't claiming it's superior or trying to push it on others, and I don't really think "carnivores" are doing either of those things).

    What I would point out, though, is that a lack of observed nutritional deficiencies doesn't mean much in the modern world, they are hard to come by for most people who have good health, no digestive problems. Even people who live on so-called junk food and actively avoid vegetables for taste reasons tend not to experience nutritional deficiencies, even if no one (including them) would think they were eating a good diet.

    I think people on MFP often overestimate the extent to which different diets make a huge difference based on failure to hit the RDAs or the like. I try to eat a diet that probably would most of the time anyway, since I think it could have more subtle effects and I feel better doing it, but I don't think someone is likely to be obviously nutrient deficient except in really extreme cases (and usually not even then).
  • AmyOutOfControl
    AmyOutOfControl Posts: 1,425 Member
    Nope (see profile picture). Fruits and veggies are too yummy and good for you.
This discussion has been closed.

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