Oh...THAT'S what you mean by 'easy' miles.

DX2JX2

I created a post last week about creating a running training plan and a lot of the advice provided on the board was super-helpful. It got me thinking and I started to do a bit more research about how to properly train as a runner.

Anyway, I found a website that provides recommendations for training paces based on your current state or desired goal (for example, I would like to run a 5K at an average 8 minute mile). Turns out that I've been running way too fast for the bulk of my miles (as suggested by some posters here). It seems I never had a proper understanding of 'easy' miles, even when I used to run years ago.

I've always interpreted an easy pace as one that I found challenging but that I could sustain (even if just barely) over a desired distance. Almost all of my runs were geared to this pace. I wasn't generally at huffing and puffing levels during these runs but I was definitely at the limit of conversational. I felt the runs were tough but doable and in my mind just thought that that was what running was. "Easy" was a relative term (that is, my runs were easier than full out sprints).

Long story short - I went out this morning with the intent to try out the training pace recommended by the website I found (about 1 min/mile slower than I would have normally run) and it was a totally transforming experience. I felt outstanding the entire time...my energy levels stayed high, my breathing stayed easy, my body stayed loose, my form didn't slip, and I never once questioned why I was doing this to myself!

In fact, I decided to add an extra mile at the last minute simply because I felt like I could go forever. It was glorious. Lesson learned.

TL;DR - new runners. Listen to the advice to slow down and make sure you understand what an appropriate pace looks/feels like for you because there's a good chance that you're still running too fast. If you find that you have to keep pushing yourself or struggle to complete a run, equate running with difficulty, find that you can't maintain good form during a run from fatigue, or feel beat up for hours after a run, then it's likely you need to slow down.

Unless you have a specific training purpose in mind for a given run, the bulk of your miles should literally be easy to complete. Find the pace that will let you run forever - it's probably slower than you think it is.

lporter229

Awesome! I remember when I had that glorious "Aha" moment as well, when I finally realized what it was like to feel like I could keep running forever. It's such an important part of becoming a regular runner, but so hard to find. And all of your runs might not feel that way even, especially until you get used to running regularly at this pace. However, the great part about it is, as you continue to run more miles at this easy pace, you will naturally get much faster while expending the same amount of effort. Best of luck!

TavistockToad

I'm pretty sure I made a similar post about 18 months ago when I finally discovered the 'easy' run... :drinker:

BrianSharpe

Running slowly is one of the hardest things for runners to wrap their heads around......it took me a while to figure it out and when you do you start noticing some real gains (and a lot fewer injuries)

LonniJay

I plan to start running once I am down another 20 lbs and am very happy to have found your post. I will definitely keep this in mind when I start.

Thank you!

vespiquenn

Glad things are starting to fall in place for you.

I hear you on the easy runs though and they can be difficult to wrap your head around. I'm a slow runner as is, so easy runs sometimes kill me inside when I know I can go faster and not feel like a snail. The real battle is your mind during easy runs.

TavistockToad

vespiquenn wrote: »

Glad things are starting to fall in place for you.

I hear you on the easy runs though and they can be difficult to wrap your head around. I'm a slow runner as is, so easy runs sometimes kill me inside when I know I can go faster and not feel like a snail. The real battle is your mind during easy runs.

The battle is always in your mind when you're running

vespiquenn

TavistockToad wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

Glad things are starting to fall in place for you.

I hear you on the easy runs though and they can be difficult to wrap your head around. I'm a slow runner as is, so easy runs sometimes kill me inside when I know I can go faster and not feel like a snail. The real battle is your mind during easy runs.

The battle is always in your mind when you're running

100% truth. At least easy runs I can think about food. That makes it better. Speed runs.. I'm just hoping not to die while questioning why this is considered a fun activity.. only to do it again willingly.

rsclause

I typically do slow runs but sometimes I do Ingress runs. Its a GPS based game similar to a global game of capture the flag (see ingress.comm). Anyway it is what got into running. I go out and run to downtown and sprint to a portal, capture it, deploy on it and link it to another. This provides a rest before I sprint to another and so on. It changes things up and provides a different type of run workout. One morning I pre-planned a strategic route to field over the entire city. It took me downtown and around town including two college campuses. I ended up very tired and succeeded but it took me nine miles to do it.

bendyourkneekatie

I just can't. I have a training speed and I like it( 4.40-5 min/km, which is about 8 min/mile or a bit under I think). I run my short 14-16km runs at that pace, I run my 30+ long runs at that pace.... if I go slower I feel like I'm trudging rather than running and want to give up
I'm absolutely rubbish at following training plans though. Speed work? Fartleks? Whatever other things one is supposed to do? I just... do my thing. Which is the only sustainable thing otherwise I'm afraid I'd start hating it..

dewd2

LonniJay wrote: »

I plan to start running once I am down another 20 lbs and am very happy to have found your post. I will definitely keep this in mind when I start.

Thank you!

Why wait? No better time than now.

PaytraB

Great post!
My favorite runs are at about a 8-9 minute kilometer (12-13 minute mile). It's wonderful to run and so loose and comfortable. It makes for longer runs, too, as you discovered.
I do mix these easy runs with sprint runs occasionally to try to help with speed but my main goal is to do the slow runs for now.

Glad you are having so much fun with running.

PaytraB

LonniJay wrote: »

I plan to start running once I am down another 20 lbs and am very happy to have found your post. I will definitely keep this in mind when I start.

If you really want to run, there's no need to put it off. Start slow (very slow) and with a good pair of shoes. You're ready as soon as you let yourself believe you're ready.

You can do this.

kpkitten

PaytraB wrote: »

LonniJay wrote: »

I plan to start running once I am down another 20 lbs and am very happy to have found your post. I will definitely keep this in mind when I start.

If you really want to run, there's no need to put it off. Start slow (very slow) and with a good pair of shoes. You're ready as soon as you let yourself believe you're ready.

You can do this.

Like, so slow that when Strava syncs with mfp your pace is listed as 'running on the spot' because they don't have a pace slow enough in the directory!!
(Yes I had this this morning)

Push through 'niggles' and tired muscles. Listen to pain. There's a huge difference and I found that as a beginner it was difficult to tell what it was.

stanmann571

bendyourkneekatie wrote: »

I just can't. I have a training speed and I like it( 4.40-5 min/km, which is about 8 min/mile or a bit under I think). I run my short 14-16km runs at that pace, I run my 30+ long runs at that pace.... if I go slower I feel like I'm trudging rather than running and want to give up
I'm absolutely rubbish at following training plans though. Speed work? Fartleks? Whatever other things one is supposed to do? I just... do my thing. Which is the only sustainable thing otherwise I'm afraid I'd start hating it..

I'm the same way, and thought I was the only one... I typed and retyped an answer to this post originally, and deleted it because I didn't want to be discouraging. 20 years of running, and I know what my "easy run" speed is, and I can walk faster. It's unhappy and unpleasant. Injury prevention, yeah... but my easy speed doesn't get any faster.

When my conditioning is where I need it to be I can do 2-4 miles at my training speed or faster... but If I need to slow down or rest, I'm switching off to a walk, because my next speed down is slower than walking. I know it is, because I pass runners when i'm walking.


BTW, OP, congratulations

girlinahat

see I want to run slow, but I have a problem. I'm trying to keep my heart rate down as a measure of slow, but I'm also trying to keep a consistent cadence.

So how do I stay slow but keep my legs turning fast?

DX2JX2

girlinahat wrote: »

see I want to run slow, but I have a problem. I'm trying to keep my heart rate down as a measure of slow, but I'm also trying to keep a consistent cadence.

So how do I stay slow but keep my legs turning fast?

Smaller steps generally but note that maintaining a traditional 170-180 spm cadence is really tough if you're slower than a 9 min/mile pace.

For slower speeds, it's more important to just focus on not overstriding and maintaining good form during your run. If you focus on not overstriding, you'll likely get to a reasonable cadence without thinking about it such that you can adjust upward to 170-180 with little problem when you're ready for it, speed-wise.

I find that I can't run at traditional cadences at my easy pace. Once I get closer to 9 min/miles, maintaining a 180 cadence almost becomes automatic.

dewd2

girlinahat wrote: »

see I want to run slow, but I have a problem. I'm trying to keep my heart rate down as a measure of slow, but I'm also trying to keep a consistent cadence.

So how do I stay slow but keep my legs turning fast?

What HR are you trying to hit? Do you know your real max and min HR?

Slow runs are typically zone 2 but to do this correctly you have to know exactly what zone 2 is for you. The only way to know for sure is to measure your max HR.

girlinahat

dewd2 wrote: »

girlinahat wrote: »

see I want to run slow, but I have a problem. I'm trying to keep my heart rate down as a measure of slow, but I'm also trying to keep a consistent cadence.

So how do I stay slow but keep my legs turning fast?

What HR are you trying to hit? Do you know your real max and min HR?

Slow runs are typically zone 2 but to do this correctly you have to know exactly what zone 2 is for you. The only way to know for sure is to measure your max HR.

but how do I keep my cadence high and still run slow?

deannalfisher

for long slow runs I care less about my cadence - honestly, I find that mine is significantly lower than the "recommended" but it works for me and my short legs

DX2JX2

girlinahat wrote: »

but how do I keep my cadence high and still run slow?

Don't worry too much about your cadence at lower speeds. The simple story is that a fast cadence at lower speeds doesn't really work too well. Try maintaining 180 SPM per minute while walking and you'll see what I mean.

The real benefit of shooting for a higher cadence for most of us beginners/novices (and others who run at relatively slow speeds) is to avoid overstriding. It's very hard to both overstride and to keep your feet turning over quickly. By focusing on the latter, it's more likely than not that we'll avoid the former.

For slower runners, it's actually easier to achieve the same goal by only focusing on not overstriding and making sure that you are landing your feet under your center of mass. How many steps you're taking per minute doesn't matter (though you'll find that your cadence will naturally increase when you don't overstride).

One drill I've found helpful is the following: Every 5 minutes or so during a run, punch your fists straight down (along your sides) in time with landing the opposite foot. Because your arms/hands are naturally centered with your torso, they'll automatically 'line up' with your center of gravity. Your goal in the drill is to try and land your foot in line with your hand. Do this for a couple of strides and it will 'reset' your feeling for the proper foot landing position over the course of a run. Eventually you won't need to punch your hand down because you'll get a feel for what a proper landing point should feel like.

dewd2

Actually 180 works well no matter your speed. The only time I deviate from that is when I am 'really' busting my *kitten*. I hit 200+ during a 1 mile race. Otherwise it is pretty consistent. I'm 99% sure I learned that while running in the US Army. We always ran with a cadence which I bet was 180.

However, I agree to not worry about it. Instead focus your feet landing somewhere underneath you (so you don't over stride) and try not to lean forward. Overthinking steals from the fun of the run.

DX2JX2

dewd2 wrote: »

Actually 180 works well no matter your speed. The only time I deviate from that is when I am 'really' busting my *kitten*. I hit 200+ during a 1 mile race. Otherwise it is pretty consistent. I'm 99% sure I learned that while running in the US Army. We always ran with a cadence which I bet was 180.

However, I agree to not worry about it. Instead focus your feet landing somewhere underneath you (so you don't over stride) and try not to lean forward. Overthinking steals from the fun of the run.

When you run at 180 SPM while doing a 10:30 mile, does it look like the Road Runner from the old Looney Tunes cartoons?

(edited to add smiley)

dewd2

Beep Beep.

MobyCarp

bendyourkneekatie wrote: »

I just can't. I have a training speed and I like it( 4.40-5 min/km, which is about 8 min/mile or a bit under I think). I run my short 14-16km runs at that pace, I run my 30+ long runs at that pace.... if I go slower I feel like I'm trudging rather than running and want to give up
I'm absolutely rubbish at following training plans though. Speed work? Fartleks? Whatever other things one is supposed to do? I just... do my thing. Which is the only sustainable thing otherwise I'm afraid I'd start hating it..

An easy pace is relative. If you can hold a pace of about 5 minutes per kilometer or 8 minutes per mile for 30 kilometers (18+ miles), I'd guess that this is a decent easy pace for you. Or at least no faster than what your marathon pace should be.

I would hope that if your easy pace is 8 minutes per mile, you could run a shorter race like a 10K at 7:00 per mile or less, i.e. run the 10K in under 44 minutes. But you wouldn't want to run that pace for all your running.