Going VEGAN, please help!
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mercury451a wrote: »Anti- What the Health vegan checking in. Everyone else covered the tomfoolery of the documentary, so I'll answer your question. My staples are tofu, frozen veggies, canned beans (without pork fat), sourdough bread, avocados, potatoes, and nutritional yeast. I rarely buy organic. I save my pennies for vegan ice cream.
The only vegan cookbook I recommend is Vegan Cookies Take Over Your Cookie Jar. For recipes online visit Oh She Glows and Hot For Food.
I checked out the website. It looks like it has a lot of good recipes. I am trying to count calories also to loose weight. How do I figure the calorie count on these or any recipe? Thanks.
Just put the ingredients into the recipe calculator!
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/recipe/calculator
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Vegans DO eat fruit
Whey powders are not vegan (Plantfusion is the best I've tried)
Many bars mentioned above are not vegan (Vega are the best I've tried)
The protein level certainly isn't as high as i'd like, but the best tasting vegan bar i've had is probably bhu fit's apple chunk cinnamon nutmeg bars (note that they do have palm oil (although it's certified sustainable), so some vegans won't consume them). 180c 12g protein. I find they taste much better than what I remember quest bars tasting like, but of course the macros are much worse. I don't find reaching protein requirements is all that hard, though, but I eat a pretty basic/boring diet.
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janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.0 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
The film has been the subject of continued and justified ridicule since it's release for it's braindead attempt at persuasion using tactics that would be right at home in conspiracy theory circles. It's producers clearly can't differentiate between correlation from causation, and following this up with shamefully biased sources and drawing mindbogglingly asinine conclusions from them is the icing on the cake. Not that the subject matter is unworthy of investigation and discussion, but weak and ideologically inspired drivel is not a great way to encourage honest dialogue on any subject.
Because the millions of people who rush into paleo, keto, et al, are just so well informed.
Nice selective poutrage.
Given that there is nothing unhealthy about following a vegan lifestyle, OP's reasons for choosing to follow it are irrelevant.4 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
The film has been the subject of continued and justified ridicule since it's release for it's braindead attempt at persuasion using tactics that would be right at home in conspiracy theory circles. It's producers clearly can't differentiate between correlation from causation, and following this up with shamefully biased sources and drawing mindbogglingly asinine conclusions from them is the icing on the cake. Not that the subject matter is unworthy of investigation and discussion, but weak and ideologically inspired drivel is not a great way to encourage honest dialogue on any subject.
Because the millions of people who rush into paleo, keto, et al, are just so well informed.
Nice selective poutrage.
Given that there is nothing unhealthy about following a vegan lifestyle, OP's reasons for choosing to follow it are irrelevant.
When people put forth a justification premise that is based upon rank nonsense I would call that problematic, no? Evaluate for a moment applying your same ridiculous rationale to other situations in life and I think you would agree it's unlikely to consistently yield positive outcomes.
Your logic is quite interesting, to say the least.2 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
Great point about human traits.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
I still judge everyone on a case by case basis of course, but I would be a fool at this point if I did not recognize the overwhelming historical trend. They just tend to suck far more often than the average human in my experience. As you aptly point out, fanaticism comes in many forms, and is hardly limited to Vegans. Most people find Ideologues intolerable after all, with the possible exception of other ideologues who share the same view.
I will still give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and give them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak. If they run their mouth at me or preach to me is when they go on permanent ignore. I respect anyone's passion, however misguided I might find it to be, provided they respect my desire to want no part of it.0 -
I don't think that documentary portrayed everything accurately (no eggs in moderation won't kill you... cholesterol doesn't work that way... please get your information from more than one source and read takedowns of the documentary) but if you want to go vegan (there are plenty of reasons to do so besides the scare tactics of this video), I recommend No Meat Athlete as an excellent source for information. He's been vegan for years, has researched all his stuff extensively, and is in amazing shape. He basically eats whole grains in moderation, lots of beans, nuts and seeds, and of course a ton of fruits and veggies. There's also "oh she glows" whihc has a lot of veg friendly recipes.
I'm an omnivore who eats mostly vegetarian/vegan, if you care to add me.1 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
I still judge everyone on a case by case basis of course, but I would be a fool at this point if I did not recognize the overwhelming historical trend. They just tend to suck far more often than the average human in my experience. As you aptly point out, fanaticism comes in many forms, and is hardly limited to Vegans. Most people find Ideologues intolerable after all, with the possible exception of other ideologues who share the same view.
I will still give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and give them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak. If they run their mouth at me or preach to me is when they go on permanent ignore. I respect anyone's passion, however misguided I might find it to be, provided they respect my desire to want no part of it.
Do you not see the riskiness of saying that a member of a particular group is likely to "suck more" than the average person just because of your own past personal experiences? Your own personal experiences don't make up a cohesive "historical trend," it's heavily influenced by where you are, the circles you move in, and the type of people you have tended to encounter over the course of your life.
When you say that you tend to avoid members of a certain group in general due to your past experiences, that's not compatible with your claim that you also give members of that group the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that you mean one of those statements, but it's illogical to accept that you mean both of them.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
I still judge everyone on a case by case basis of course, but I would be a fool at this point if I did not recognize the overwhelming historical trend. They just tend to suck far more often than the average human in my experience. As you aptly point out, fanaticism comes in many forms, and is hardly limited to Vegans. Most people find Ideologues intolerable after all, with the possible exception of other ideologues who share the same view.
I will still give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and give them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak. If they run their mouth at me or preach to me is when they go on permanent ignore. I respect anyone's passion, however misguided I might find it to be, provided they respect my desire to want no part of it.
Do you not see the riskiness of saying that a member of a particular group is likely to "suck more" than the average person just because of your own past personal experiences? Your own personal experiences don't make up a cohesive "historical trend," it's heavily influenced by where you are, the circles you move in, and the type of people you have tended to encounter over the course of your life.
When you say that you tend to avoid members of a certain group in general due to your past experiences, that's not compatible with your claim that you also give members of that group the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that you mean one of those statements, but it's illogical to accept that you mean both of them.
Of course my view is influenced by my personal situation and experiences. I would not think that would be difficult to ascertain given my previous statements on the subject. It's not "risky" at all, when 9 times out of ten people who claim such an affiliation I would not choose to be in the same room with for longer than 5 min based upon this previous experience.
Look, provided they don't preach to me, we will get along just fine. I am not a particularly difficult person to get along with, If they do preach, they are done. Simple. My generalized avoidance is due to the fact that most can't seem to contain themselves from preaching their version of the "gospel". They apparently suffer from the self righteous notion that other people should care about their views. Guess what? By and large, nobody cares, except other Vegans.2 -
Tofu is my forever staple! Also ever since going vegan I have been buying more condiments, it has improved my vegan exprience a lot. So maybe keep an eye out for condiments you havent tried before while youre in the grocery store? You might find something you enjoy. Dont forget to check the ingredients though, they are tricky sometimes.
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JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
I still judge everyone on a case by case basis of course, but I would be a fool at this point if I did not recognize the overwhelming historical trend. They just tend to suck far more often than the average human in my experience. As you aptly point out, fanaticism comes in many forms, and is hardly limited to Vegans. Most people find Ideologues intolerable after all, with the possible exception of other ideologues who share the same view.
I will still give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and give them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak. If they run their mouth at me or preach to me is when they go on permanent ignore. I respect anyone's passion, however misguided I might find it to be, provided they respect my desire to want no part of it.
Do you not see the riskiness of saying that a member of a particular group is likely to "suck more" than the average person just because of your own past personal experiences? Your own personal experiences don't make up a cohesive "historical trend," it's heavily influenced by where you are, the circles you move in, and the type of people you have tended to encounter over the course of your life.
When you say that you tend to avoid members of a certain group in general due to your past experiences, that's not compatible with your claim that you also give members of that group the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that you mean one of those statements, but it's illogical to accept that you mean both of them.
Of course my view is influenced by my personal situation and experiences. I would not think that would be difficult to ascertain given my previous statements on the subject. It's not "risky" at all, when 9 times out of ten people who claim such an affiliation I would not choose to be in the same room with for longer than 5 min based upon this previous experience.
Look, provided they don't preach to me, we will get along just fine. I am not a particularly difficult person to get along with, If they do preach, they are done. Simple. My generalized avoidance is due to the fact that most can't seem to contain themselves from preaching their version of the "gospel". They apparently suffer from the self righteous notion that other people should care about their views. Guess what? By and large, nobody cares, except other Vegans.
Most vegans I know don't assume other people care about their views on the subject. I think this is an issue with the vegans you have personally encountered, maybe not vegans as a whole.
Think about this: you're the one who came into a thread about veganism, assuming that your views (opposing veganism, wanting to avoid vegans) would be of interest. Should I make conclusions about non-vegans based on your behavior here?2 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »
Dude, you need to chill. I recommend a hearty glass of soy milk. Possibly in a starbucks venti container. It has high amounts of estrogen which helps temper the male mind from misplaced macho-isms.JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
I still judge everyone on a case by case basis of course, but I would be a fool at this point if I did not recognize the overwhelming historical trend. They just tend to suck far more often than the average human in my experience. As you aptly point out, fanaticism comes in many forms, and is hardly limited to Vegans. Most people find Ideologues intolerable after all, with the possible exception of other ideologues who share the same view.
I will still give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and give them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak. If they run their mouth at me or preach to me is when they go on permanent ignore. I respect anyone's passion, however misguided I might find it to be, provided they respect my desire to want no part of it.
Do you not see the riskiness of saying that a member of a particular group is likely to "suck more" than the average person just because of your own past personal experiences? Your own personal experiences don't make up a cohesive "historical trend," it's heavily influenced by where you are, the circles you move in, and the type of people you have tended to encounter over the course of your life.
When you say that you tend to avoid members of a certain group in general due to your past experiences, that's not compatible with your claim that you also give members of that group the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that you mean one of those statements, but it's illogical to accept that you mean both of them.
Of course my view is influenced by my personal situation and experiences. I would not think that would be difficult to ascertain given my previous statements on the subject. It's not "risky" at all, when 9 times out of ten people who claim such an affiliation I would not choose to be in the same room with for longer than 5 min based upon this previous experience.
Look, provided they don't preach to me, we will get along just fine. I am not a particularly difficult person to get along with, If they do preach, they are done. Simple. My generalized avoidance is due to the fact that most can't seem to contain themselves from preaching their version of the "gospel". They apparently suffer from the self righteous notion that other people should care about their views. Guess what? By and large, nobody cares, except other Vegans.
I drink a lot of it myself. There is a high possibility it can cause breast cancer but my mreasts are just fine because I don't produce natural estrogen so the plant-based estrogen never conflicts with my natural estrogen which I do not have. But it helps me when I am in my meriod especially I feel the need to rage against a faction I don't understand much.
To the women reading this, do not drink too much soy. Your natural estrogen may actually conflict with the plant based estro.
Robby, I had the same thought on vegans and then I came across the beefers who rail on the vegans. They are just the same but in another team. Personally, I am a goat guy. I like to eat animals many others don't on the mainland united states. Goats are not reared like cows or chicken.
I have never seen a reliable source documenting that natural estrogen "conflicts" with phytoestrogens.3 -
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suzannesimmons3 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »
Dude, you need to chill. I recommend a hearty glass of soy milk. Possibly in a starbucks venti container. It has high amounts of estrogen which helps temper the male mind from misplaced macho-isms.JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
I still judge everyone on a case by case basis of course, but I would be a fool at this point if I did not recognize the overwhelming historical trend. They just tend to suck far more often than the average human in my experience. As you aptly point out, fanaticism comes in many forms, and is hardly limited to Vegans. Most people find Ideologues intolerable after all, with the possible exception of other ideologues who share the same view.
I will still give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and give them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak. If they run their mouth at me or preach to me is when they go on permanent ignore. I respect anyone's passion, however misguided I might find it to be, provided they respect my desire to want no part of it.
Do you not see the riskiness of saying that a member of a particular group is likely to "suck more" than the average person just because of your own past personal experiences? Your own personal experiences don't make up a cohesive "historical trend," it's heavily influenced by where you are, the circles you move in, and the type of people you have tended to encounter over the course of your life.
When you say that you tend to avoid members of a certain group in general due to your past experiences, that's not compatible with your claim that you also give members of that group the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that you mean one of those statements, but it's illogical to accept that you mean both of them.
Of course my view is influenced by my personal situation and experiences. I would not think that would be difficult to ascertain given my previous statements on the subject. It's not "risky" at all, when 9 times out of ten people who claim such an affiliation I would not choose to be in the same room with for longer than 5 min based upon this previous experience.
Look, provided they don't preach to me, we will get along just fine. I am not a particularly difficult person to get along with, If they do preach, they are done. Simple. My generalized avoidance is due to the fact that most can't seem to contain themselves from preaching their version of the "gospel". They apparently suffer from the self righteous notion that other people should care about their views. Guess what? By and large, nobody cares, except other Vegans.
I drink a lot of it myself. There is a high possibility it can cause breast cancer but my mreasts are just fine because I don't produce natural estrogen so the plant-based estrogen never conflicts with my natural estrogen which I do not have. But it helps me when I am in my meriod especially I feel the need to rage against a faction I don't understand much.
To the women reading this, do not drink too much soy. Your natural estrogen may actually conflict with the plant based estro.
Robby, I had the same thought on vegans and then I came across the beefers who rail on the vegans. They are just the same but in another team. Personally, I am a goat guy. I like to eat animals many others don't on the mainland united states. Goats are not reared like cows or chicken.
I have never seen a reliable source documenting that natural estrogen "conflicts" with phytoestrogens.
Shhh it's because it doesn't. ...millions of people in Asian cultures will tell you that.
Could it affect other... ummm areas of the Asian population??0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
I still judge everyone on a case by case basis of course, but I would be a fool at this point if I did not recognize the overwhelming historical trend. They just tend to suck far more often than the average human in my experience. As you aptly point out, fanaticism comes in many forms, and is hardly limited to Vegans. Most people find Ideologues intolerable after all, with the possible exception of other ideologues who share the same view.
I will still give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and give them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak. If they run their mouth at me or preach to me is when they go on permanent ignore. I respect anyone's passion, however misguided I might find it to be, provided they respect my desire to want no part of it.
Do you not see the riskiness of saying that a member of a particular group is likely to "suck more" than the average person just because of your own past personal experiences? Your own personal experiences don't make up a cohesive "historical trend," it's heavily influenced by where you are, the circles you move in, and the type of people you have tended to encounter over the course of your life.
When you say that you tend to avoid members of a certain group in general due to your past experiences, that's not compatible with your claim that you also give members of that group the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that you mean one of those statements, but it's illogical to accept that you mean both of them.
Of course my view is influenced by my personal situation and experiences. I would not think that would be difficult to ascertain given my previous statements on the subject. It's not "risky" at all, when 9 times out of ten people who claim such an affiliation I would not choose to be in the same room with for longer than 5 min based upon this previous experience.
Look, provided they don't preach to me, we will get along just fine. I am not a particularly difficult person to get along with, If they do preach, they are done. Simple. My generalized avoidance is due to the fact that most can't seem to contain themselves from preaching their version of the "gospel". They apparently suffer from the self righteous notion that other people should care about their views. Guess what? By and large, nobody cares, except other Vegans.
Most vegans I know don't assume other people care about their views on the subject. I think this is an issue with the vegans you have personally encountered, maybe not vegans as a whole.
Think about this: you're the one who came into a thread about veganism, assuming that your views (opposing veganism, wanting to avoid vegans) would be of interest. Should I make conclusions about non-vegans based on your behavior here?
You are free to make any associations you so choose based upon your experience, as this is what has shaped my view
Practical experience tends to be the best educator on social matters 0 -
Going vegan or vegetarian can bring the blood pressure and total cholesterol to levels un-achievable if you are frequent meat/dairies/eggs eater. There are strong benefits doing it. I don't, but I lowered significantly my intake of meat/dairies/eggs. Blood pressure at 110/70 and total cholesterol at 167. I am sure that the latter would decrease again if I was a 'full' vegan.1
-
One rarely-discussed vegan cooking tip: get some umami flavor in your food! This really helped me stick with veganism the first time I did it: think fermented food like kimchi or soy sauce. Tomato paste works too. Mushrooms.
Soy sauce + honey = a great marinade for tofu or tempeh. Cook with some sesame oil for some hearty delicious vegan meat substitute with plenty of umami.0 -
How would honey be vegan?4
-
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »How would honey be vegan?
Traditional Kimchi is also not vegan - although it would be simple to make a vegan version.2 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Changing your diet for legitimate health reasons is a great and positive transition, but deciding to do so based upon a propaganda piece is, in a word, naive. Not trying to be too critical, but there is little other way to describe it.
So many people are criticizing the OP without reading her comments. She has a right to her feelings.
She clearly said this: "I didn't buy into many things in the documentary. It was the animals that bothered me. BTW, I am from the hog plant area in North Carolina so I grew up smelling pigs and watching chickens head to the slaughter (all my friends work at those plants). I can't change how it made me feel."
Fair point, though I suppose I should I admit I tend to avoid reading long vegan related threads for the most part. For that matter, I tend to avoid Vegans in general. Past experience has taught me that far too high of a percentage tend to be political zealots who are about like the Taliban of the dietary world.
Curious as to why you are in this thread then. Wouldn't you expect vegans to be present in a thread about going vegan?
Why not just let vegans and those interested in veganism give OP advice?
Those who prefer to ascribe zealotry to those they don't even know can find threads that are more to their interest.
I said "generally" not "never". I did not think that would be too difficult to understand. I have certianly met some Vegan folks who aren't annoying ideologues. I have a few friends here actually that I have become close with over the last year that have been a delight to interact with, but sadly they are a slim minority in my experience. I am not sure what it is about that dietary regimen that attracts fanatics in such large numbers, I just know it does. I suspect the reason for this is because it has a sociopolitical type of tie in, not just health. Few other subjects out there (except perhaps religion) have the power to make otherwise normal people unreasonable.
I understood what you meant by "in general," you meant that generally you try to avoid vegans. I was simply pointing out that hanging out in a vegan thread is a strange way to avoid us "in general."
I try to avoid judging entire groups just by the individuals in that group that I happen to encounter. It's just my policy, I understand it isn't everyone's.
But you are right. Veganism isn't a health thing, it does have sociopolitical elements. But almost everyone on earth has some sort of sociopolitical opinion, it isn't limited to vegans. Some of them are nice people, some of them aren't. This is a human thing, not really a vegan thing.
I still judge everyone on a case by case basis of course, but I would be a fool at this point if I did not recognize the overwhelming historical trend. They just tend to suck far more often than the average human in my experience. As you aptly point out, fanaticism comes in many forms, and is hardly limited to Vegans. Most people find Ideologues intolerable after all, with the possible exception of other ideologues who share the same view.
I will still give anyone the benefit of the doubt, and give them enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak. If they run their mouth at me or preach to me is when they go on permanent ignore. I respect anyone's passion, however misguided I might find it to be, provided they respect my desire to want no part of it.
Do you not see the riskiness of saying that a member of a particular group is likely to "suck more" than the average person just because of your own past personal experiences? Your own personal experiences don't make up a cohesive "historical trend," it's heavily influenced by where you are, the circles you move in, and the type of people you have tended to encounter over the course of your life.
When you say that you tend to avoid members of a certain group in general due to your past experiences, that's not compatible with your claim that you also give members of that group the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that you mean one of those statements, but it's illogical to accept that you mean both of them.
Of course my view is influenced by my personal situation and experiences. I would not think that would be difficult to ascertain given my previous statements on the subject. It's not "risky" at all, when 9 times out of ten people who claim such an affiliation I would not choose to be in the same room with for longer than 5 min based upon this previous experience.
Look, provided they don't preach to me, we will get along just fine. I am not a particularly difficult person to get along with, If they do preach, they are done. Simple. My generalized avoidance is due to the fact that most can't seem to contain themselves from preaching their version of the "gospel". They apparently suffer from the self righteous notion that other people should care about their views. Guess what? By and large, nobody cares, except other Vegans.
Most vegans I know don't assume other people care about their views on the subject. I think this is an issue with the vegans you have personally encountered, maybe not vegans as a whole.
Think about this: you're the one who came into a thread about veganism, assuming that your views (opposing veganism, wanting to avoid vegans) would be of interest. Should I make conclusions about non-vegans based on your behavior here?
You are free to make any associations you so choose based upon your experience, as this is what has shaped my view Practical experience tends to be the best educator on social matters
Actually, if we're going by personal experience, I've found most non-vegans to be very accepting and relaxed about veganism. It's only a small minority who seem to hold animosity towards vegans or attribute negative things to them as a group before getting to know them.2 -
One rarely-discussed vegan cooking tip: get some umami flavor in your food! This really helped me stick with veganism the first time I did it: think fermented food like kimchi or soy sauce. Tomato paste works too. Mushrooms.
Soy sauce + honey = a great marinade for tofu or tempeh. Cook with some sesame oil for some hearty delicious vegan meat substitute with plenty of umami.
Honey isn't vegan, but this would work well with agave nectar.0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »How would honey be vegan?
Traditional Kimchi is also not vegan - although it would be simple to make a vegan version.
For those who aren't quite ready to make their own: Mother-in-Law (distributed nationally in the US) makes a vegan version. Farmhouse Culture makes another. There is also a regional brand in my area (midwest) that is vegan.1 -
I'm just commenting so I can find this discussion again in the future. Hopefully the bashers can cut it out so those of us who would like the advice can find it.
I'd like to go veg, but I'm struggling with figuring out how to. I can't see myself going vegan, but instead focusing on animal products that are humane.
I'm using eggs from local hens who I know have really awesome lives (I eat eggs from my mother in laws hens, those hens have an amazing life, and I know they will get broody if I don't eat their eggs) and I've switched to non-dairy milk...but struggling with getting rid of the actual meat, even though I don't want to eat it. I also don't want to give up honey. I go to Cuba twice a year to pick up my honey supplies, and those bees are really happy and they don't seem to mind me taking their honey. So really, I'd like to be ethical, but I'm deciding what is ethical instead of letting someone else decide for me.
I'm thinking of getting an indian cookbook or something. They seem to do vegan without shoveling tofu into their face for every meal quite well. I hate tofu.2 -
LiveLoveFitFab wrote: »I'm just commenting so I can find this discussion again in the future. Hopefully the bashers can cut it out so those of us who would like the advice can find it.
I'd like to go veg, but I'm struggling with figuring out how to. I can't see myself going vegan, but instead focusing on animal products that are humane.
I'm using eggs from local hens who I know have really awesome lives (I eat eggs from my mother in laws hens, those hens have an amazing life, and I know they will get broody if I don't eat their eggs) and I've switched to non-dairy milk...but struggling with getting rid of the actual meat, even though I don't want to eat it. I also don't want to give up honey. I go to Cuba twice a year to pick up my honey supplies, and those bees are really happy and they don't seem to mind me taking their honey. So really, I'd like to be ethical, but I'm deciding what is ethical instead of letting someone else decide for me.
I'm thinking of getting an indian cookbook or something. They seem to do vegan without shoveling tofu into their face for every meal quite well. I hate tofu.
What do you find challenging about giving up meat?
Indian food is a great place to start exploring meatfree cooking. If you're interested, "Homestyle Vegan" is a recently published cookbook that has tofu-free recipes.1 -
I am not fully vegan (I eat a very limited amount of dairy and will eat or use eggs from hens I know), but when I'm cooking for myself at home, I consume little to no animal products. I eat tons of beans (black beans are my fave), keep a huge supply of frozen veggies (I'm a freak for peas), and keep a lot of dark leafy greens around (I'm not big on salads, but I know it's important to get a lot of greens, so they go into a lot of smoothies and I like spinach lightly cooked, so I eat it almost every meal), and I try to keep big batches of lentils and brown rice cooked up in the fridge. I also always have a container of vegan protein powder (my current favorite is Orgain) because I'm not great about breakfast, but having a shake with some unsweetened almond milk is easy for me, and sometimes I'll toss a smoothie together (I emotional ate nothing but carbs yesterday, so I'm currently sucking down a smoothie with TONS of spinach and a couple of bananas as a form of apology to my body
).
My favorite resources for recipes are Thug Kitchen, Plant Based on a Budget, Happy Herbivore, and Chocolate Covered Kate. Buuuuut, I also take plenty of recipes and either omit the meat or animal products or find substitutes (I'm lucky that my brother is a vegan and a chef, so he's a good source for ideas on substitutes).
I also just tend to make what I refer to as "garbage bowls." Basically I pick a carb, a protein, a veggie or two, and some greens and mix it all together, season to taste (hot sauce, soy sauce, vinegars, BBQ sauce occasionally I'd theres no honey, etc).0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »LiveLoveFitFab wrote: »I'm just commenting so I can find this discussion again in the future. Hopefully the bashers can cut it out so those of us who would like the advice can find it.
I'd like to go veg, but I'm struggling with figuring out how to. I can't see myself going vegan, but instead focusing on animal products that are humane.
I'm using eggs from local hens who I know have really awesome lives (I eat eggs from my mother in laws hens, those hens have an amazing life, and I know they will get broody if I don't eat their eggs) and I've switched to non-dairy milk...but struggling with getting rid of the actual meat, even though I don't want to eat it. I also don't want to give up honey. I go to Cuba twice a year to pick up my honey supplies, and those bees are really happy and they don't seem to mind me taking their honey. So really, I'd like to be ethical, but I'm deciding what is ethical instead of letting someone else decide for me.
I'm thinking of getting an indian cookbook or something. They seem to do vegan without shoveling tofu into their face for every meal quite well. I hate tofu.
What do you find challenging about giving up meat?
Indian food is a great place to start exploring meatfree cooking. If you're interested, "Homestyle Vegan" is a recently published cookbook that has tofu-free recipes.
The part that is challenging is that I cook for my family, and they don't want to give up meat and I really love the taste of it, I just don't want to eat it because of the environmental impacts. It's not really because I'm a bleeding heart for animals as individuals, but more for the earth as a whole.
I also grew up on a beef farm, so I have the mindset that these animals are for eating which I am working to get past. For me, it comes down to concern for global warming, how we could be using our farmlands to feed more people if we ate less meat...and so on.
I want to be ethical, but I have my own ideas of what is ethical. For me, eating less meat and consuming less dairy is ethical for the whole world. Cows are one of the major contributors to methane emissions. It's not just meat, I try to consume less of everything, whether it's buying less clothing but better quality to last longer or using bulk purchases with my own containers. Eating less meat fall into those goals.
I'm also part Aboriginal, and meat is part of my traditional diet, there is no denying that. So there are many sides to the coin.
So far I've cut out dairy and I've cut red meat down to one serving a month. I don't eat seafood that isn't farmed, because it isn't sustainable. I'm an avid Scuba diver and ocean lover so I am very concerned with the states of our oceans.
Anyways, good for OP for finding something she cares about and making changes in her life to reflect that. I wish more people would. If each of us meat eaters just had one or two meatless days a week the environment as a whole would be better off.0 -
Hi, I faced some of the same roadblocks during my switch to vegan. I kind of jumped headfirst and tried to feel my way through. I didn't have to cook for anyone else, but there are many meat substitutes that are pretty tasty that can help smooth the transition. I wish I had some advice in terms of cooking for your family. The only thing I can think of is that there are a bunch of fun vegan recipes online that you could try to offer them along the way. Wishing you the best. Good luck!1
This discussion has been closed.
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