Ketogenic diet
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »The full documentary is on Netflix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61GitUC_678
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »The full documentary is on Netflix.
<link intentionally omitted>
That's not a "documentary" - it's a propaganda piece by a celebrity chef. As a counterpoint, I could link to "What the Health", "Forks Over Knives" or a host of other crappy Netflix mockumentaries. Bring some science to the discussion, not anecdotes and Netflix garbage.
https://synapses.co.za/the-magic-pill-pete-evans-does-documentary/15 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »The full documentary is on Netflix.
<link intentionally omitted>
That's not a "documentary" - it's a propaganda piece by a celebrity chef. As a counterpoint, I could link to "What the Health", "Forks Over Knives" or a host of other crappy Netflix mockumentaries. Bring some science to the discussion, not anecdotes and Netflix garbage.
https://synapses.co.za/the-magic-pill-pete-evans-does-documentary/
Lol...I was going to say that you can find a crockumentary in NetFlix to support pretty much any position on any subject.8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »The full documentary is on Netflix.
<link intentionally omitted>
That's not a "documentary" - it's a propaganda piece by a celebrity chef. As a counterpoint, I could link to "What the Health", "Forks Over Knives" or a host of other crappy Netflix mockumentaries. Bring some science to the discussion, not anecdotes and Netflix garbage.
https://synapses.co.za/the-magic-pill-pete-evans-does-documentary/
Lol...I was going to say that you can find a crockumentary in NetFlix to support pretty much any position on any subject.
I mean, if we're going to resort to Netflix as our source of information, there are a lot of their mockumentaries which would point to keto as being virtually equal to instant death. Every crackpot with an agenda and stuff to sell has their own "documentary" on Netflix. What they have in common is that they're all pseudoscientific, cherry-picked garbage.
The only thing Netflix "documentaries" are good for is confirmation bias. Oh, and disseminating bogus propaganda to naïve, gullible, uneducated people.13 -
Paleo_Babe wrote: »I've done Keto before and really liked it. I'm not sure if it is a long term diet but it worked well to reduce body fat quickly and I felt great. There are some Youtubers with videos that have a lot of information if you are looking to get informed.
a deficit is what reduces body fat no matter what way of eating you do and if you are losing fat too fast then your deficit is too big (unless over 300 lbs) which then it could still be too big and with that comes lean mass as well,which includes muscle. fat isnt lost any quicker in keto than any other way of eating. . water weight is whats lost first and foremost on a keto diet
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Linking a Netflix documentary as evidence for anything is like linking Oz or Mercola as a credible source of information.13
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Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.9
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »The full documentary is on Netflix.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61GitUC_678
You obviously don't know the difference between propaganda and evidence. And you're stubborn about it. Netflix videos are a joke.11 -
As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.
There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.1 -
dangerousdashie wrote: »Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.dangerousdashie wrote: »As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.
There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.
Here's where I have problems with diets that restrict an entire macronutrient, regardless of the diet... People begin to bastardize food to fit their new diet. Eg: black bean "brownies" for vegans, almond flour or cream cheese "bread" for ketoers, etc. all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public.
I wonder if anyone realizes they're processing food just as heavily as manufacturers and often with more calories.
"Keto" ice cream, bread, pasta, donuts, pizza... Look, anything is "keto friendly" if you have a small enough serving of it, or really just be an adult and make adjustments to focus on nutrient dense food with small allowances for actual treats once in a while. If you want to follow a low carb diet for nutrient density and splurge on a scoop of genuine ice cream, then that makes a lot more sense than trying to stay in ketosis by replacing 30g of carbs with 70g of fat.
#butmuhinsulinz arguments have been debunked... and by the more appropriately self-educated low carb community no less; who once used to believe the insulin theory of obesity but have shifted their views along with growing evidence.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/7 -
dangerousdashie wrote: »Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.dangerousdashie wrote: »As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.
There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.
Here's where I have problems with diets that restrict an entire macronutrient, regardless of the diet... People begin to bastardize food to fit their new diet. Eg: black bean "brownies" for vegans, almond flour or cream cheese "bread" for ketoers, etc. all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public.
I wonder if anyone realizes they're processing food just as heavily as manufacturers and often with more calories.
"Keto" ice cream, bread, pasta, donuts, pizza... Look, anything is "keto friendly" if you have a small enough serving of it, or really just be an adult and make adjustments to focus on nutrient dense food with small allowances for actual treats once in a while. If you want to follow a low carb diet for nutrient density and splurge on a scoop of genuine ice cream, then that makes a lot more sense than trying to stay in ketosis by replacing 30g of carbs with 70g of fat.
#butmuhinsulinz arguments have been debunked... and by the more appropriately self-educated low carb community no less; who once used to believe the insulin theory of obesity but have shifted their views along with growing evidence.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
Veganism isn't about macronutrient restriction. You can do it with almost any macro split.
"Black bean" brownies are a recipe for anyone who wants to get more fiber into their brownies or use less flour. There are vegan and non-vegan versions out there and they're completely optional for any vegan who wants to eat brownies (I make mine the regular way, no beans included).6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »dangerousdashie wrote: »Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.dangerousdashie wrote: »As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.
There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.
Here's where I have problems with diets that restrict an entire macronutrient, regardless of the diet... People begin to bastardize food to fit their new diet. Eg: black bean "brownies" for vegans, almond flour or cream cheese "bread" for ketoers, etc. all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public.
I wonder if anyone realizes they're processing food just as heavily as manufacturers and often with more calories.
"Keto" ice cream, bread, pasta, donuts, pizza... Look, anything is "keto friendly" if you have a small enough serving of it, or really just be an adult and make adjustments to focus on nutrient dense food with small allowances for actual treats once in a while. If you want to follow a low carb diet for nutrient density and splurge on a scoop of genuine ice cream, then that makes a lot more sense than trying to stay in ketosis by replacing 30g of carbs with 70g of fat.
#butmuhinsulinz arguments have been debunked... and by the more appropriately self-educated low carb community no less; who once used to believe the insulin theory of obesity but have shifted their views along with growing evidence.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
Veganism isn't about macronutrient restriction. You can do it with almost any macro split.
"Black bean" brownies are a recipe for anyone who wants to get more fiber into their brownies or use less flour. There are vegan and non-vegan versions out there and they're completely optional for any vegan who wants to eat brownies (I make mine the regular way, no beans included).
I appreciate the correction. I'm not vegan, but have vegan friends who are obese because they believe in restricting protein to an unhealthy degree, and gorge on hyperpalatable "vegan friendly" foods. I merely used black bean brownies as an example, albeit bad, to make a point that being an adult in a relationship with food doesn't need to resort to modifying already known food just to make it fit the narrative of whatever diet someone follows.3 -
I follow the keto diet. I lost 20 pounds. My skin and hair is amazing. My energy went up! It works for me.6
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janejellyroll wrote: »dangerousdashie wrote: »Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.dangerousdashie wrote: »As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.
There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.
Here's where I have problems with diets that restrict an entire macronutrient, regardless of the diet... People begin to bastardize food to fit their new diet. Eg: black bean "brownies" for vegans, almond flour or cream cheese "bread" for ketoers, etc. all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public.
I wonder if anyone realizes they're processing food just as heavily as manufacturers and often with more calories.
"Keto" ice cream, bread, pasta, donuts, pizza... Look, anything is "keto friendly" if you have a small enough serving of it, or really just be an adult and make adjustments to focus on nutrient dense food with small allowances for actual treats once in a while. If you want to follow a low carb diet for nutrient density and splurge on a scoop of genuine ice cream, then that makes a lot more sense than trying to stay in ketosis by replacing 30g of carbs with 70g of fat.
#butmuhinsulinz arguments have been debunked... and by the more appropriately self-educated low carb community no less; who once used to believe the insulin theory of obesity but have shifted their views along with growing evidence.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
Veganism isn't about macronutrient restriction. You can do it with almost any macro split.
"Black bean" brownies are a recipe for anyone who wants to get more fiber into their brownies or use less flour. There are vegan and non-vegan versions out there and they're completely optional for any vegan who wants to eat brownies (I make mine the regular way, no beans included).
I appreciate the correction. I'm not vegan, but have vegan friends who are obese because they believe in restricting protein to an unhealthy degree, and gorge on hyperpalatable "vegan friendly" foods. I merely used black bean brownies as an example, albeit bad, to make a point that being an adult in a relationship with food doesn't need to resort to modifying already known food just to make it fit the narrative of whatever diet someone follows.
Sorry for being pedantic then!4 -
dangerousdashie wrote: »Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.dangerousdashie wrote: »As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.
There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.
Here's where I have problems with diets that restrict an entire macronutrient, regardless of the diet... People begin to bastardize food to fit their new diet. Eg: black bean "brownies" for vegans, almond flour or cream cheese "bread" for ketoers, etc. all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public.
I wonder if anyone realizes they're processing food just as heavily as manufacturers and often with more calories.
"Keto" ice cream, bread, pasta, donuts, pizza... Look, anything is "keto friendly" if you have a small enough serving of it, or really just be an adult and make adjustments to focus on nutrient dense food with small allowances for actual treats once in a while. If you want to follow a low carb diet for nutrient density and splurge on a scoop of genuine ice cream, then that makes a lot more sense than trying to stay in ketosis by replacing 30g of carbs with 70g of fat.
#butmuhinsulinz arguments have been debunked... and by the more appropriately self-educated low carb community no less; who once used to believe the insulin theory of obesity but have shifted their views along with growing evidence.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
So instead of having a problem with the diet, it's more about how people bastardize the diet? And people who avoid processed food?
For lunch I had some chicken and cheese slices - without keto bread or anything. Both were processed.
I do agree that replacing 30g of carbs (120 kcal) with 70g of fat (630 kcal) is a bad idea for weight loss. Perhaps it is a good idea for those diabetics who want a caloric splurge without a BG spike.5 -
dangerousdashie wrote: »Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.dangerousdashie wrote: »As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.
There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.
Here's where I have problems with diets that restrict an entire macronutrient, regardless of the diet... People begin to bastardize food to fit their new diet. Eg: black bean "brownies" for vegans, almond flour or cream cheese "bread" for ketoers, etc. all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public.
I wonder if anyone realizes they're processing food just as heavily as manufacturers and often with more calories.
"Keto" ice cream, bread, pasta, donuts, pizza... Look, anything is "keto friendly" if you have a small enough serving of it, or really just be an adult and make adjustments to focus on nutrient dense food with small allowances for actual treats once in a while. If you want to follow a low carb diet for nutrient density and splurge on a scoop of genuine ice cream, then that makes a lot more sense than trying to stay in ketosis by replacing 30g of carbs with 70g of fat.
#butmuhinsulinz arguments have been debunked... and by the more appropriately self-educated low carb community no less; who once used to believe the insulin theory of obesity but have shifted their views along with growing evidence.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
So instead of having a problem with the diet, it's more about how people bastardize the diet? And people who avoid processed food?
For lunch I had some chicken and cheese slices - without keto bread or anything. Both were processed.
I do agree that replacing 30g of carbs (120 kcal) with 70g of fat (630 kcal) is a bad idea for weight loss. Perhaps it is a good idea for those diabetics who want a caloric splurge without a BG spike.
I have a problem with any diet if it's going to lead to bastardizing food and relying on logical fallacies to fit a narrative.
You're alluding to the notion that I have a problem with processed food, which is actually the opposite. I eat processed food daily, much like most people in westernized society. I just don't claim to avoid commercially processed food just so I can process it myself and say it's healthier because it fits my preferred diet.
I also never mentioned diabetes, but while we're on the topic, if you read the article, you will see that fat bomb calorie splurges actually promote hepatic insulin resistance, which for a diabetic trying to manage their glucose levels, would actually be a contradictory result. On the topic, insulin resistance is a consequence of pushing adipocyte storage tolerance (fat gain) to their limits (known as the personal fat threshold), as opposed to the insulin model that purports to say insulin is the cause of diabetes and obesity.9 -
dangerousdashie wrote: »Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.dangerousdashie wrote: »As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.
There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.
Here's where I have problems with diets that restrict an entire macronutrient, regardless of the diet... People begin to bastardize food to fit their new diet. Eg: black bean "brownies" for vegans, almond flour or cream cheese "bread" for ketoers, etc. all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public.
I wonder if anyone realizes they're processing food just as heavily as manufacturers and often with more calories.
"Keto" ice cream, bread, pasta, donuts, pizza... Look, anything is "keto friendly" if you have a small enough serving of it, or really just be an adult and make adjustments to focus on nutrient dense food with small allowances for actual treats once in a while. If you want to follow a low carb diet for nutrient density and splurge on a scoop of genuine ice cream, then that makes a lot more sense than trying to stay in ketosis by replacing 30g of carbs with 70g of fat.
#butmuhinsulinz arguments have been debunked... and by the more appropriately self-educated low carb community no less; who once used to believe the insulin theory of obesity but have shifted their views along with growing evidence.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
So instead of having a problem with the diet, it's more about how people bastardize the diet? And people who avoid processed food?
For lunch I had some chicken and cheese slices - without keto bread or anything. Both were processed.
I do agree that replacing 30g of carbs (120 kcal) with 70g of fat (630 kcal) is a bad idea for weight loss. Perhaps it is a good idea for those diabetics who want a caloric splurge without a BG spike.
I have a problem with any diet if it's going to lead to bastardizing food and relying on logical fallacies to fit a narrative.
You're alluding to the notion that I have a problem with processed food, which is actually the opposite. I eat processed food daily, much like most people in westernized society. I just don't claim to avoid commercially processed food just so I can process it myself and say it's healthier because it fits my preferred diet.
I also never mentioned diabetes, but while we're on the topic, if you read the article, you will see that fat bomb calorie splurges actually promote hepatic insulin resistance, which for a diabetic trying to manage their glucose levels, would actually be a contradictory result. On the topic, insulin resistance is a consequence of pushing adipocyte storage tolerance (fat gain) to their limits (known as the personal fat threshold), as opposed to the insulin model that purports to say insulin is the cause of diabetes and obesity.
I did not mean to say that you have a problem with processed food. I had interpreted your post to say that you dislike it when people make a point of avoiding processed food in the pursuit of better health from when you said, "...all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public."
I did read the article. I think high fat with high carbs is a horrible combination if hoping to avoiding insulin resistance. That seems to be the fastest way to reach a personal fat threshold: high carbs so high insulin plus with high fat = well filled fat cells. I think high carb (whole foods) is often a good way to avoid IR if you can hack the diet. I think a LCHF (moderate to high protein) is another good way to avoid IR. Fat bombs are a dessert like any other and should be greatly limited... calorie excesses should be mostly limited in general unless trying to gain weight.
I like Naimen's theories. They make some sense and are less simplistic than the basic insulin model. The only problem comes when looking at fit or slimmer people with IR. My IR came on when I was in the upper end of a normal BMI and reasonably active. I gained after IR developed, so I doubt my personal fat threshold was met when I developed IR. Based on my own experiences, I think there is something to both theories. I doubt either is completely right.9 -
I'm sorry but "keto coffee" is just ridiculous (going back to your bastardization to meet macros)
Wouldn't real food be more satisfying rather than drinking a bunch of empty kcals?
These same people will tell you not to drink sugary drinks, soda, juice, etc. though because carbs are "evil"
The "keto coffee" thing just seems like a step backwards
Seems odd to have to rely on an oil to make a diet work (WTF are we Transformers needing to consume blocks of glowing energy now?)
*Forgot to mention how much BS there is in marketing certain products pertaining to said coffee16 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »I'm sorry but "keto coffee" is just ridiculous (going back to your bastardization to meet macros)
Wouldn't real food be more satisfying rather than drinking a bunch of empty kcals?
These same people will tell you not to drink sugary drinks, soda, juice, etc. though because carbs are "evil"
The "keto coffee" thing just seems like a step backwards
Seems odd to have to rely on an oil to make a diet work
Yeah... I is an odd concept for weight loss. I think the main benefit to keto coffee is probably for those who enjoy the health benefits of increased ketones, or possibly if it reduces your appetite while trying to lose. I guess...
I've never actually tried a "keto coffee". That's a lot of calories. I do add some whipping or coconut cream to my coffee in the morning, but I also add a bit of protein powder. It's a mini meal and then I don't eat again until 1 or 2 pm. But I'm one who like drinking my calories. I'd rather have a spinach smoothie than a salad on most days. Just a personal preference.3
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