Marathon Training

jayjay_90
jayjay_90 Posts: 83 Member
edited November 21 in Fitness and Exercise
Hey folks!

In the spring I ran my first half-marathon. I kind of buggered off my training more than I wanted to leading up to it (life.) but I still finished ahead of my goal time by a few minutes, so I was overall happy with it. At the time I thought there was no way I wanted to train for a full but.... I've got the marathon itch now! I'd like to be able to say I've run at least 1, so I'm planning on doing one next spring.

Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

Advice or links to some solid articles would be lovely!

Thanks :)

Replies

  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    you might want to post on here:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/94-long-distance-runners

    whats your current weekly mileage? did you use a training plan for your half?
  • dewd2
    dewd2 Posts: 2,445 Member
    I suggest using a novice plan from Hal Higdon or similar. Or, better yet, find a local running group or running store that offers training. Running for hours is more fun with a group.

    From now until you start your plan just keep running. Slowly build up your base until you can comfortably start week one of your training plan.

    For you first marathon, focus on finishing and don't worry about how long it takes. Enjoy the experience. For food, you will have to experiment to see what works for you. I usually have a peanut butter sandwich before a long run (15 or more miles). You should also experiment with in run fueling. See which gels or chews work best for you.

    You have plenty of time to try things and be ready by spring.

    Good luck.
  • CyclingRoadie6
    CyclingRoadie6 Posts: 59 Member
    jayjay_90 wrote: »
    Hey folks!

    In the spring I ran my first half-marathon. I kind of buggered off my training more than I wanted to leading up to it (life.) but I still finished ahead of my goal time by a few minutes, so I was overall happy with it. At the time I thought there was no way I wanted to train for a full but.... I've got the marathon itch now! I'd like to be able to say I've run at least 1, so I'm planning on doing one next spring.

    Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

    Advice or links to some solid articles would be lovely!

    Thanks :)

    I could help get things started, if you're interested. Training for a full marathon is no east feat, and more is needed than what you did for the half you ran in the spring. I am currently helping another MFP friend go through the same training process for his race in October, and I am quite familiar with "running on empty" and how to manage that. I'll leave it to you if you would like to send me a quick note or send me a friend request, and we can talk more about the next steps.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    edited August 2017
    There`s an old proverb that says the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the 2nd best time is right now. So, if you`re not already running consistently 3 to 5 times per week the time to start is now (depending on your fitness level etc start short & slow and build gradually)

    I`m a big fan of Hal Higdon`s training plans, they`re free & well structured and his Novice 1 Marathon plan is 18 weeks long. It`s based on 4 runs weekly and the longest run the first week is 6 miles (about 10km)

    halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

    Like you I do most of my training fasted, for longer runs (anything over 2 hrs) I`ll have some toast & PB and a banana a couple of hours before heading out. Generally speaking if you`re eating a well balanced diet you should have enough stored glycogen to get you through about 90 minutes of moderate exercise. You can experiment with nutrition during training as you will want to eat as your training runs get longer and you should also consider training with gels once your runs are much more than 2 hours (I`ll take one gel a few minutes before the race and one every 45 minutes or so, I`ve bonked before and it`s no fun.....)

    Most races will offer aid stations along the way and most will offer both water, a sports drink & often energy gels. It`s best to check with the race director to see what they offer as you don`t want to be consuming something on race day that you haven`t used in training.....not all gels are created equally and peoples tolerances vary. Once you know what they offer you can decide to train with that product or bring along your own (some people will race with hydration belts that have a pouch for gels, I use a race belt that has loops for holding gels)
    Have fun!

  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »
    jayjay_90 wrote: »
    Hey folks!

    In the spring I ran my first half-marathon. I kind of buggered off my training more than I wanted to leading up to it (life.) but I still finished ahead of my goal time by a few minutes, so I was overall happy with it. At the time I thought there was no way I wanted to train for a full but.... I've got the marathon itch now! I'd like to be able to say I've run at least 1, so I'm planning on doing one next spring.

    Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

    Advice or links to some solid articles would be lovely!

    Thanks :)

    I could help get things started, if you're interested. Training for a full marathon is no east feat, and more is needed than what you did for the half you ran in the spring. I am currently helping another MFP friend go through the same training process for his race in October, and I am quite familiar with "running on empty" and how to manage that. I'll leave it to you if you would like to send me a quick note or send me a friend request, and we can talk more about the next steps.

    who not post it on here so lurkers can also benefit?

    Probably looking for $$......
  • ritzvin
    ritzvin Posts: 2,860 Member
    edited August 2017
    Hey folks!
    Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

    I've never run a full, but it's a good idea to check ahead of time on exactly which sports drinks/gels/etc will be available along the route - that will allow you to test them out ahead of time and make sure they won't upset your stomach on race day (or get used to running with a belt and bring your own). 10 miles (~1:40-1:50ish) is about my limit for not eating along the run without getting a bit lightheaded.

  • CyclingRoadie6
    CyclingRoadie6 Posts: 59 Member
    BrianSharpe wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »
    jayjay_90 wrote: »
    Hey folks!

    In the spring I ran my first half-marathon. I kind of buggered off my training more than I wanted to leading up to it (life.) but I still finished ahead of my goal time by a few minutes, so I was overall happy with it. At the time I thought there was no way I wanted to train for a full but.... I've got the marathon itch now! I'd like to be able to say I've run at least 1, so I'm planning on doing one next spring.

    Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

    Advice or links to some solid articles would be lovely!

    Thanks :)

    I could help get things started, if you're interested. Training for a full marathon is no east feat, and more is needed than what you did for the half you ran in the spring. I am currently helping another MFP friend go through the same training process for his race in October, and I am quite familiar with "running on empty" and how to manage that. I'll leave it to you if you would like to send me a quick note or send me a friend request, and we can talk more about the next steps.

    who not post it on here so lurkers can also benefit?

    Probably looking for $$......

    Nope! I'm not looking for money at all, but am more than willing to help others achieve their goals, as others have helped me. Thanks for immediately assuming though.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
    jayjay_90 wrote: »
    Hey folks!

    In the spring I ran my first half-marathon. I kind of buggered off my training more than I wanted to leading up to it (life.) but I still finished ahead of my goal time by a few minutes, so I was overall happy with it. At the time I thought there was no way I wanted to train for a full but.... I've got the marathon itch now! I'd like to be able to say I've run at least 1, so I'm planning on doing one next spring.

    Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

    Advice or links to some solid articles would be lovely!

    Thanks :)

    You cannot start too soon with building a solid base. So if you can currently run 3-4x a week or even more, then do so. If you aren't at that level yet, work towards it buy the time your training plan kicks in. There are lots of plans out there, Higdon was mentioned, he has good ones. If your base is sufficient enough, regardless of what plan you choose, don't regress just to meet the plan, wait until the plan hits your base and pick it up from there. Seems like common sense to me, but I've seen people take steps backwards.
    I'm also one who doesn't eat much, if anything before a run. This is something to play with. I liked to do most of my long runs on empty, taking only water. Save for a few that you need to try out gels and in race fuel so that you know what you can tolerate. Also if not already doing so, a basic strength training program will help too, especially one focusing on unilateral movements and core strengthening.
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,748 Member
    I also like the Higdon plans, but started with his intermediate 2 plan. I've done 3 marathons following his plans. Everything I have read says that more miles make for a better race, so I built my base to a comfortable 35 - 40 miles a week before beginning marathon training. You have time to build your base so you can start the plan strong.

    I don't run fasted. I usually have a normal (for me) breakfast of cereal or a bagel. I've learned through experimentation that eggs don't work, nor does a lot of sugar, though I have a friend who does all her marathons (about 10 a year) on donuts and mountain dew. If I run in the afternoon, I'll usually do it after a peanut butter sandwich. On race day I'll usually have either cereal or a bagel 2 hours before the race, plus a banana about 1/2 an hour before the race.

    You might want to do another half marathon this fall, to get into the groove of regular training and building your endurance. See if you can follow the plan and see how you improve in strategy and stamina with more experience. One of the hardest parts of marathon training is that to do it right takes a lot of time and energy and dedication to the process. See if you really want to dedicate several months to that.
  • jayjay_90
    jayjay_90 Posts: 83 Member
    Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone! I'll check out that long distance runners group, totally forgot groups are a thing on here.

    I did a training plan for my half but I honestly only vaguely followed it. I typically run 4 times a week in the spring/summer, but that tends to go down in the winter cause it's cold and I'm a suck! Also running anything more than an hour on a treadmill is just the pits.

    Sounds like the sooner I can start experimenting with food and gels the better so I'm gonna focus my research on that for a bit.

    I'm doing a 15km in September so I wasn't really planning on doing another half, but I'll look into what's around, cause that makes sense to me and having a race to focus on helps keep me motivated to train. I believe there's one here in October. Those Higdon plans look like a good guide to follow, I'll definitely be checking those out.

    Thanks everyone!
  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,600 Member
    not going to give you much actual training advice - but do you know which race you want to do yet? if you decide to look to a fall race - check out Marine Corps Marathon in October :)
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    I ran my first marathon last year and I used a Hal Higdon novice plan. I highly recommend his plans (I'm training again using one of his intermediate plans this year). You get the miles in, but they're also built in a way that lets you have a fairly normal life while you're training.

    I would recommend following the plan as closely as you can, especially for the longer runs. You might want to pick a marathon that won't have you training in the winter if that's going to be an issue for you. I run an October marathon because the summer training works really well for me.

    I recommend trying to find ways to eat *something* before you run. I also was a "run on empty" person and I didn't eat enough during my marathon last year and the last six miles were like a nightmare. So this year I'm focusing on eating something light before the run and being consistent with refueling with Gu packs during the run. I've got two 20-mile runs on this training plan, so I will have two chances to really practice my strategy.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »
    BrianSharpe wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »
    jayjay_90 wrote: »
    Hey folks!

    In the spring I ran my first half-marathon. I kind of buggered off my training more than I wanted to leading up to it (life.) but I still finished ahead of my goal time by a few minutes, so I was overall happy with it. At the time I thought there was no way I wanted to train for a full but.... I've got the marathon itch now! I'd like to be able to say I've run at least 1, so I'm planning on doing one next spring.

    Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

    Advice or links to some solid articles would be lovely!

    Thanks :)

    I could help get things started, if you're interested. Training for a full marathon is no east feat, and more is needed than what you did for the half you ran in the spring. I am currently helping another MFP friend go through the same training process for his race in October, and I am quite familiar with "running on empty" and how to manage that. I'll leave it to you if you would like to send me a quick note or send me a friend request, and we can talk more about the next steps.

    who not post it on here so lurkers can also benefit?

    Probably looking for $$......

    Nope! I'm not looking for money at all, but am more than willing to help others achieve their goals, as others have helped me. Thanks for immediately assuming though.

    Well it's not the first time you've posted something that essentially looks like you're touting for business.

    This is a forum, taking what's essentially a coaching question into private limited the opportunity for others to learn from the debate. Let's face it, it's a common question, and there are different views on the best way to train.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    jayjay_90 wrote: »
    Hey folks!

    In the spring I ran my first half-marathon. I kind of buggered off my training more than I wanted to leading up to it (life.) but I still finished ahead of my goal time by a few minutes, so I was overall happy with it. At the time I thought there was no way I wanted to train for a full but.... I've got the marathon itch now! I'd like to be able to say I've run at least 1, so I'm planning on doing one next spring.

    Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

    Advice or links to some solid articles would be lovely!

    Thanks :)

    I'd echo the advice around using a structured plan, the Higdon ones are pretty good and build in cross training opportunities.

    Rather than try to answer all the nutrition and feeding questions now, you'll get more from experimenting as you increase your mileage. And as upthread, using the time now to increase your base volume will make the plan easier to follow.

    Some of the advice also depends on the terrain you're running on. Road marathons are quite a different proposition then a trail marathon, particularly if you're having to carry extra kit or using poles.

    In terms of cross training I prefer cycling and swimming, whereas others would suggest resistance training. Again, down to personal preference and circumstances.
  • bendyourkneekatie
    bendyourkneekatie Posts: 696 Member
    I'm in my last peak week for my third marathon. What's worked for me is:

    - I looked at a bunch of training plans, my own schedule, and my training limitations (I'm prone to injury if I run too many consecutive days thanks to absolutely rubbish feet), and wrote out my own training plan.
    - I use a combination of running and elliptical work
    - I tested out gels and found the only one I can stomach (salted caramel gu) and bought a couple boxes. But I don't use them much during training, usually only an over 30km run
    - I always eat before running, but I suck without breakfast generally. If I could train fasted I would. I have a particular pre race breakfast: two pieces of toast and a certain protein bar I can only get from a certain shop :)
    - I always set 3 time goals for the marathon to help me focus. So far my times have been 3:41 and 3:32 so my A goal next month is 3:20something, B goal faster than last marathon, C goal faster than first marathon

    Hope you have fun. I love marathon training :)
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    jayjay_90 wrote: »
    Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone! I'll check out that long distance runners group, totally forgot groups are a thing on here.

    I did a training plan for my half but I honestly only vaguely followed it. I typically run 4 times a week in the spring/summer, but that tends to go down in the winter cause it's cold and I'm a suck! Also running anything more than an hour on a treadmill is just the pits.

    Sounds like the sooner I can start experimenting with food and gels the better so I'm gonna focus my research on that for a bit.

    I'm doing a 15km in September so I wasn't really planning on doing another half, but I'll look into what's around, cause that makes sense to me and having a race to focus on helps keep me motivated to train. I believe there's one here in October. Those Higdon plans look like a good guide to follow, I'll definitely be checking those out.

    Thanks everyone!

    Weather is a puzzle for marathon training. If you pick a fall marathon that's likely to have good weather, you get to train in the heat and humidity of summer. If you pick a spring marathon, you get to train in the cold and snow of winter. If you pick a late enough spring marathon that you don't have to train in January or February, you have a substantial chance of hot weather for the race. And hot weather for a marathon is a much bigger deal than hot weather for a half.

    Since formal marathon training plans tend to be 14 to 20 weeks long, depending on the plan, you might want to start looking at the calendar and balancing the likely weather during the training plan with the likely weather on race day. That could influence which marathon you want to run.

    And yes, running on a dreadmill is really the pits.
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,748 Member
    Depending on where you live, April can be a nice time for a marathon. You do the peak of your training in March, so it's cold, but not usually very snowy or icy. Spring flowers and trees just coming into leaf can be lovely. Of course, you can end up with cold rain or heat, but that's true any time. I've done one in February (Arizona - 75 and sunny, hot!), one in March (MD - 47 and cloudy, comfortable), and one in April (PA - 45 and sunny, perfect).
  • RuNaRoUnDaFiEld
    RuNaRoUnDaFiEld Posts: 5,864 Member
    bendyourkneekatie wrote: »
    I'm in my last peak week for my third marathon. What's worked for me is:

    - I looked at a bunch of training plans, my own schedule, and my training limitations (I'm prone to injury if I run too many consecutive days thanks to absolutely rubbish feet), and wrote out my own training plan.
    - I use a combination of running and elliptical work
    - I tested out gels and found the only one I can stomach (salted caramel gu) and bought a couple boxes. But I don't use them much during training, usually only an over 30km run
    - I always eat before running, but I suck without breakfast generally. If I could train fasted I would. I have a particular pre race breakfast: two pieces of toast and a certain protein bar I can only get from a certain shop :)
    - I always set 3 time goals for the marathon to help me focus. So far my times have been 3:41 and 3:32 so my A goal next month is 3:20something, B goal faster than last marathon, C goal faster than first marathon

    Hope you have fun. I love marathon training :)

    Off topic I realise but that is awesome, good luck with race!
  • RuNaRoUnDaFiEld
    RuNaRoUnDaFiEld Posts: 5,864 Member
    edited August 2017
    CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »
    BrianSharpe wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    CyclingRoadie6 wrote: »
    jayjay_90 wrote: »
    Hey folks!

    In the spring I ran my first half-marathon. I kind of buggered off my training more than I wanted to leading up to it (life.) but I still finished ahead of my goal time by a few minutes, so I was overall happy with it. At the time I thought there was no way I wanted to train for a full but.... I've got the marathon itch now! I'd like to be able to say I've run at least 1, so I'm planning on doing one next spring.

    Hoping for some advice from marathon runners like, how long in advance should I start my training, what kind of training do you find helped you, what kind of food do you eat before running, (I'm used to running on empty, even for the half I only had a protein bar and a banana before the race because I'm prone to cramping.) to bring nourishment along for the run or not, etc! I'm excited to give it a go but I want to be smarter about this one than I was my half.

    Advice or links to some solid articles would be lovely!

    Thanks :)

    I could help get things started, if you're interested. Training for a full marathon is no east feat, and more is needed than what you did for the half you ran in the spring. I am currently helping another MFP friend go through the same training process for his race in October, and I am quite familiar with "running on empty" and how to manage that. I'll leave it to you if you would like to send me a quick note or send me a friend request, and we can talk more about the next steps.

    who not post it on here so lurkers can also benefit?

    Probably looking for $$......

    Nope! I'm not looking for money at all, but am more than willing to help others achieve their goals, as others have helped me. Thanks for immediately assuming though.

    Then why not do what everyone else is doing and publicly giving your advice?

    OP, I'm sure you are smart enough to work out which advice suits you ;)
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    bendyourkneekatie wrote: »
    I'm in my last peak week for my third marathon. What's worked for me is:

    - I looked at a bunch of training plans, my own schedule, and my training limitations (I'm prone to injury if I run too many consecutive days thanks to absolutely rubbish feet), and wrote out my own training plan.
    - I use a combination of running and elliptical work
    - I tested out gels and found the only one I can stomach (salted caramel gu) and bought a couple boxes. But I don't use them much during training, usually only an over 30km run
    - I always eat before running, but I suck without breakfast generally. If I could train fasted I would. I have a particular pre race breakfast: two pieces of toast and a certain protein bar I can only get from a certain shop :)
    - I always set 3 time goals for the marathon to help me focus. So far my times have been 3:41 and 3:32 so my A goal next month is 3:20something, B goal faster than last marathon, C goal faster than first marathon

    Hope you have fun. I love marathon training :)

    salted caramel GU are my favourite too!!! :drinker:
  • SweatsOnSunday
    SweatsOnSunday Posts: 514 Member
    Haven't had the salted caramel, but will look for it! Most of the GUs are great.

    I have a birthday coming up, and I'm trying to work in a marathon for that same weekend. Pushing my body and just seeing what it can do would be a great way to mark another year.
  • bendyourkneekatie
    bendyourkneekatie Posts: 696 Member
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    bendyourkneekatie wrote: »
    I'm in my last peak week for my third marathon. What's worked for me is:

    - I looked at a bunch of training plans, my own schedule, and my training limitations (I'm prone to injury if I run too many consecutive days thanks to absolutely rubbish feet), and wrote out my own training plan.
    - I use a combination of running and elliptical work
    - I tested out gels and found the only one I can stomach (salted caramel gu) and bought a couple boxes. But I don't use them much during training, usually only an over 30km run
    - I always eat before running, but I suck without breakfast generally. If I could train fasted I would. I have a particular pre race breakfast: two pieces of toast and a certain protein bar I can only get from a certain shop :)
    - I always set 3 time goals for the marathon to help me focus. So far my times have been 3:41 and 3:32 so my A goal next month is 3:20something, B goal faster than last marathon, C goal faster than first marathon

    Hope you have fun. I love marathon training :)

    salted caramel GU are my favourite too!!! :drinker:

    (Sorry to go off topic op) they are the absolute bestest. I realised straight away I preferred the taste as the salt somewhat offsets the oversweetness of all gels, but it occurred to me recently I actually feel better using them than other gels and I know why: I'm a salty sweater (I often end up with a crust of dried salt all over after a long run) and the salted caramel gels have about double the sodium of other flavours. Sodium replenishment and not totally gagging on the flavour ftw!
    RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »
    bendyourkneekatie wrote: »
    I'm in my last peak week for my third marathon. What's worked for me is:

    - I looked at a bunch of training plans, my own schedule, and my training limitations (I'm prone to injury if I run too many consecutive days thanks to absolutely rubbish feet), and wrote out my own training plan.
    - I use a combination of running and elliptical work
    - I tested out gels and found the only one I can stomach (salted caramel gu) and bought a couple boxes. But I don't use them much during training, usually only an over 30km run
    - I always eat before running, but I suck without breakfast generally. If I could train fasted I would. I have a particular pre race breakfast: two pieces of toast and a certain protein bar I can only get from a certain shop :)
    - I always set 3 time goals for the marathon to help me focus. So far my times have been 3:41 and 3:32 so my A goal next month is 3:20something, B goal faster than last marathon, C goal faster than first marathon

    Hope you have fun. I love marathon training :)

    Off topic I realise but that is awesome, good luck with race!

    Thank you! I'm at that giddy stage of training when I'm looking forward to the race. The dread and fear are sure to set in somewhere midway through the existential misery that is tapering.
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,748 Member
    Espresso Love gels are also really good if you can tolerate the caffeine.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories